Author Topic: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee  (Read 2193 times)

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« on: December 02, 2015, 06:27:28 am »
http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/01/5-reasons-will-not-vote-trump/

Every Presidential election, people talk of the importance of that particular election. “This is one of the most important Presidential elections in our nation’s history!” Truth be told, I’ve voted in six presidential elections and they’re all important. The 2016 election in my view however, is different.

After eight years of President Obama, the last thing the country needs is four years (at least) of Hillary Clinton. Democrats have thankfully not served more than eight years since the FDR/Truman run and there’s no reason to break precedent.

President Obama has been dangerous because he is a partisan (not an ideologue which is actually a positive). He is driven wholly by politics, doing or not doing something because the other side hates it. Hillary on the other hand is more dangerous because she is nothing but an influence peddler. For all her talk about the “little person”, she and hubby Bill are all about influence, privilege and wealth. She sees the Clinton family as some sort of quasi-royalty and she’ll sell policy to the highest bidder in order to maintain that status.

For the record, I support Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) 94%‘s (cue “RINO!”, “Establishment!”, “Gang of 8!” , “CAW! CAW!”) candidacy but I’ll crawl over glass to vote for Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) 100%, Chris Christie, Carly Fiorina, etc. over Hillary. I’d even got to bat for Ben Carson. If it’s Kasich, I’d really have to be convinced.

But I will not vote for Donald Trump if he is the GOP nominee. In good conscience I will not do it and here are five reasons why:

1. Trump is not a conservative. Hell, he’s barely a Republican. No conservative would support Trump’s vision of what eminent domain is. Seizing a person’s property for commercial development is awful and Trump sides with the liberal justices on the Supreme Court (He’s a fan  of the Kelo decision). He’s been critical of taking away funding for Planned Parenthood despite his supposed conversion to being pro-life. He says Obamacare did not go far enough and supports single payer. He’s opposed to any reform of Medicare and Social Security despite both programs needing it desperately. For just these reasons alone, it’s ironic that any Trump supporter would call anybody else a “RINO.” Bill S. has more details on Trump’s liberalism. http://www.redstate.com/2015/09/06/will-vote-donald-trump-primary-general-election-race-dogcatcher/

2. He’s lying to everybody on immigration. He’s not going to build his “big beautiful wall” and he’s not going to get Mexico pay for it. He’s not going to deport 11-12 million illegal immigrants. Aside from his name recognition and celebrity, this is the issue where he has some solid support, but in 2012 he was saying Mitt Romney(!) was “too mean” on the issue of immigration.

3. He’s a crackpot. He’s a birther. He supports the completely unscientific theory that vaccines cause autism. He flirted with trutherism with respect to what President Bush did or did not know about the 9/11 attacks. He has thrown out the completely unsubstantiated claim he saw “thousands and thousands” of Muslims in Jersey City cheering the 9/11 attacks (and no, some woman calling into the Howard Stern show to say she saw it as well is not evidence). We don’t need (another) President spouting that kind of drivel.

4. He has no class and he is no statesman. I know critics will write this off as him not being “politically correct.” But there is a line between being politically correct and being a boorish ass and Trump can’t navigate it. From making fun of Carly Fiorina’s face to his pathetic schoolyard-like bully mocking of a disabled reporter to his tantrums on Twitter about news stations or reporters “not being fair” to him (remember his hissy fit over Fox News?). It’s completely unbecoming for a man who wants to lead the free world. This is not ‘The Apprentice.’

5. He will do long term damage to the GOP. In addition to getting clobbered in the general election, Republicans across the country will be hurt down ticket. He could very well cost the GOP control of the Senate and wouldn’t that be fun? Chuck Schumer as Majority Leader and Hillary Clinton as President? That will work out well.

After 2008 and 2012 when people were screaming their heads off about “No more RINO’s!”, the 2016 field was set up perfectly. Conservatives such as Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal were all waiting in the wings. It was a great field and I shudder to think of the possibility of handing it off to a poofy-headed charlatan who uses conservatism as nothing more than a stepping stone to power.

One last thing: Donald Trump is very well part of the damned “establishment” everybody hates. Just because Trump has never held elective office does not mean he’s out of touch with the political class. Bill and Hillary Clinton were at his wedding for crying out loud. He is a crony capitalist. He’s given a ton  of money (mostly to Democrats) to politicians he sucks up to them like anybody else.

My hope is that like in 2003, when Democrats came to realize Howard Dean would get slaughtered in a race against President Bush, people will realize Trump will lose and lose big, thereby paving the way for a candidate who can actually win.

If not, Trump could swipe the nomination. But there’s no way I vote for that fraud.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 06:28:00 am by Once-Ler »

Online Free Vulcan

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 06:42:38 am »
Guys, you can post this stuff all day long, rant, rave, attack, subvert, put together your best arguments,  but understand being in politics as a candidate is like a mountain. The higher you climb, the more difficult it is to reach you. The longer you are there, the more entrenched you get.

Trump is to that point in this race of the old saying that he would have to be caught with a dead girl or a live boy to lose. The only thing that railing against him is going to do is get him more attention and publicity, and you will work against your intentions.

The only person who can do Trump in now is Trump.

The Republic is lost.

Online libertybele

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 09:21:24 am »
Guys, you can post this stuff all day long, rant, rave, attack, subvert, put together your best arguments,  but understand being in politics as a candidate is like a mountain. The higher you climb, the more difficult it is to reach you. The longer you are there, the more entrenched you get.

Trump is to that point in this race of the old saying that he would have to be caught with a dead girl or a live boy to lose. The only thing that railing against him is going to do is get him more attention and publicity, and you will work against your intentions.

The only person who can do Trump in now is Trump.

Two reasons I WILL vote for Trump IF he is the nominee:  Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. This country will not survive under either one of them and to think otherwise is sheer liberal lunacy.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 12:43:27 pm »
Two reasons I WILL vote for Trump IF he is the nominee:  Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. This country will not survive under either one of them and to think otherwise is sheer liberal lunacy.

Why should I vote for Hillary's pal?
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 12:56:18 pm »
http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/01/5-reasons-will-not-vote-trump/

No the fraud here is Erickson. What an irrelevant blowhard. Listen to the guy. He is a political opportunist of the worse sort who will speak loud, and long, about his supposed Christian Conservatism while relentlessly, mindlessly, regurgitating the GOPe talking points. No wonder he loves Rubio, both are good little Establishment drones pretending to be "Tea Party Conservatives."

Erickson has only one talent, reckless, relentless self promotion. This is him desperately trying to make himself the subject of the new cycle.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 12:59:46 pm »

The only person who can do Trump in now is Trump.

Exactly... But I really wish the boy would learn which fight to fight... :)

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 01:02:32 pm »
Translation from Erickson usual overly emotional narcissist blowhardism to rational speech

Erickson reasons he will work to hand the country to Hillary Clinton.

1 He does not  like Trump.
2 He does not  like Trump.
3 He does not  like Trump.
4 He does not  like Trump.
5 He does not  like Trump.

Another "whaa do it my way or else", GOPe Establishment hissy fit from a reckless narcissist

Offline aligncare

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 01:02:39 pm »

Shouldn't this article be in the Opinion/Blogs Section? This is not political news.

Offline aligncare

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 01:06:10 pm »

Well, call me a contrarian, but I think Donald Trump, should he win nomination and the office, will make a really, really, fabulous, terrific president.  ^-^

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 01:08:45 pm »

So to boil away all the self serving rhetoric. It all boils down to this.


"Whaa I won't vote for Trump because he is not one of us good little GOP Establishment Drones. He is not smooth and polished and doesn't tell me all the pretty little lies I want to hear every 2 years in exchange for my vote".

27 years of defiant, corrupt incompetence from both parties,that has brought the country to the verge of bankruptcy and dissolution, isn't enough. These people would have us send yet another bought and paid for career politician to DC in 2016 to finish the destruction.

Offline aligncare

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 01:17:11 pm »
So to boil away all the self serving rhetoric. It all boils down to this.


"Whaa I won't vote for Trump because he is not one of us good little GOP Establishment Drones. He is not smooth and polished and doesn't tell me all the pretty little lies I want to hear every 2 years in exchange for my vote".

27 years of defiant, corrupt incompetence from both parties,that has brought the country to the verge of bankruptcy and dissolution, isn't enough. These people would have us send yet another bought and paid for career politician to DC in 2016 to finish the destruction.

Bears repeating.

We need a bull in the china shop. Someone to upset Washington DC's apple cart. I happen to think Donald Trump fills that bill. But, I would love to see Ted Cruz on the ticket, too.

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 01:28:23 pm »
I totally agree with the commentary in the lead post - but I really don't think we need to worry about conservatives not voting for Trump, because I do not believe he will be our nominee. He has already peaked, and his numbers have been going down not up. It's still marginal and he still sits on top in most polls with about 28%, but the drop is noticeable.  In the coming months when we whittle the choices down to three or four candidates, the 59% polling for other candidates besides Trump will gravitate toward somebody not Trump. It may be Cruz, it may be Carson, or maybe Rubio, but it will be Trump 28% vs. Candidate XXX with 40+%   
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 01:55:53 pm »
Translation from Erickson usual overly emotional narcissist blowhardism to rational speech

Erickson reasons he will work to hand the country to Hillary Clinton.

1 He does not  like Trump.
2 He does not  like Trump.
3 He does not  like Trump.
4 He does not  like Trump.
5 He does not  like Trump.

Another "whaa do it my way or else", GOPe Establishment hissy fit from a reckless narcissist

I think that is remarkably unfair, insofar as it ignores all of the author's substantive arguments and substitutes a simple dismissive declaration for counter-argument. 

In sum: that's exactly what Obama does when faced with arguments he does not wish to address:  attack the person. Attack a false caricature of the person's argument. Maliciously link the person to a disfavored group.

Personally, I would not go as far as Mr. Caruso does in saying that he would never vote for Donald Trump. As little as I think of the man, I would still find him preferable to the Hildebeast, who, her hour come 'round at last, now slouches toward Washington to be born.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 01:59:00 pm »
No, there are no substantive arguments in this piece. As is typical with Erickson he presents his emotion based opinions as if they were fact. He does not present any factual evidence to back up his accusations. That is a logical fallacy.  Opinions are not facts.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:59:20 pm by GAJohnnie »

Offline PzLdr

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 02:01:38 pm »
After all those election cycles of "Suck it up. Vote for the candidate the GOP picks, because..." I now find that when THEY don't like the candidate, it's OK to jump ship. The hypocrisy is amazing.
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 02:11:56 pm »
I wonder what Erickson, and the rest of the Purist Punditry, would of said about a President who:

Raised taxes 6 times.
Doubled Federal Spending in 8 years
Signed an Illegal Alien Amnesty.
Withdrew from a ME country in the face of a Muslim terrorist threat in the Mid East
Appointed a moderate to the Supreme Court?
-
-
-
-
-
That President was Ronald Reagan. The Greatest President in the 20th century would not be "pure" enough for these GOPe drones like Erickson.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 02:12:40 pm by GAJohnnie »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 02:34:57 pm »
I totally agree with the commentary in the lead post - but I really don't think we need to worry about conservatives not voting for Trump, because I do not believe he will be our nominee. He has already peaked, and his numbers have been going down not up. It's still marginal and he still sits on top in most polls with about 28%, but the drop is noticeable.  In the coming months when we whittle the choices down to three or four candidates, the 59% polling for other candidates besides Trump will gravitate toward somebody not Trump. It may be Cruz, it may be Carson, or maybe Rubio, but it will be Trump 28% vs. Candidate XXX with 40+%   

That's pretty much the way I feel.  Trump had numbers in the 30s as little as a month ago.  Now, he's down to 27% in the latest Quinnipiac.

  As the Huckabee's and Santorums and others drop out, their support will NOT go to Trump or he would have it already.  Rubio and Cruz will rise and, ultimately, it will be a face off between those two.

Don't know what the Trumpster-divers do.  Maybe they stay home, which would be ironic given all their ranting about OTHERS staying home.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 02:36:08 pm »
No, there are no substantive arguments in this piece. As is typical with Erickson he presents his emotion based opinions as if they were fact. He does not present any factual evidence to back up his accusations. That is a logical fallacy.  Opinions are not facts.

Eric Erickson didn't write the article.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 02:37:36 pm »
I wonder what Erickson, and the rest of the Purist Punditry, would of said about a President who:

Raised taxes 6 times.
Doubled Federal Spending in 8 years
Signed an Illegal Alien Amnesty.
Withdrew from a ME country in the face of a Muslim terrorist threat in the Mid East
Appointed a moderate to the Supreme Court?
-
-
-
-
-
That President was Ronald Reagan. The Greatest President in the 20th century would not be "pure" enough for these GOPe drones like Erickson.

If Reagan had promised to do all those things in 1980, would YOU have voted for him?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 02:44:26 pm »
Of course, if you share Erickson's emotion based distaste for Trump, you would agree with his emotion based assessment.

Offline aligncare

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 02:44:29 pm »
Eric Erickson didn't write the article.

So Red State has more than one loon on staff.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2015, 02:48:01 pm »
Ah yes the good old circular logical fallacy. Because "I feel Trump is a fraud therefore he must be a fraud"

Amazing that the "Conservative" movement of Buckley is now dominated by emotion based intellectual lightweights like Erickson's "Red State".
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 02:48:57 pm by GAJohnnie »

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2015, 02:50:26 pm »
No, there are no substantive arguments in this piece. As is typical with Erickson he presents his emotion based opinions as if they were fact. He does not present any factual evidence to back up his accusations. That is a logical fallacy.  Opinions are not facts.

1. The article you cite was not written by Eric Erickson but by Jay Caruso. Perhaps if you were not in such a hurry to dismiss it, you might have noticed.

2. Mr. Caruso has written not a news article but an opinion piece. It contains his opinions. In support of those opinions, Mr. Caruso presents factual assertions, such as that Trump has expressed support for the Supreme Court's "Kelo" ruling and for a continuation of Federal funding for Planned Parenthood. He refers to Trump's statements about 9/11 and his comments about Carly Fiorina's face. He notes that both Clintons were honored guests at his (second) wedding. Such things are a matter of public record. They exist in news reports. You may question Mr. Caruso's interpretation of Trump's statements, but you cannot simply dismiss that the author lacks any factual basis for his opinions, much less that he has not cited the reasons for them.

3. If you wish to offer your opinions as to why Donald Trump is the greatest thing since glazed ham, then by all means do so. Explain why the things he is on public record as saying and supporting are not quite as troubling many of us long-time Republicans and conservatives think they are. But please don't deny that we have reasons for our concern. There's plenty of video, mostly because The Donald rarely stops talking.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2015, 02:56:17 pm »
Ah yes the good old circular logical fallacy. Because "I feel Trump is a fraud therefore he must be a fraud"

Amazing that the "Conservative" movement of Buckley is now dominated by emotion based intellectual lightweights like Erickson's "Red State".

If you're under the illusion that WF Buckley would have supported an unserious person like Trump, you're smokin' somethin'.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 5 Reasons I Will Not Vote For Trump If He Is The GOP Nominee
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2015, 03:06:28 pm »
I find this vastly amusing. I have not said who I am supporting. What I have done is defend those GOP candidates who are being subjected to the standard Leftist style emotion based personal attacks.

When I see "Conservatives" engaging in the ridiculous debate tactics of the Left, I will mock and deride them the same way I do Leftists who use these absurd childish tactics.