Author Topic: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims  (Read 10545 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2015, 06:31:34 pm »
To hell with the Constitution right?

If the "Muslims" are NOT here legally; they have NO rights under the Constitution.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2015, 06:32:27 pm »
I haven't the time nor the desire to argue Korematsu with you. Have a nice day.

Of course you don't. You can't.
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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2015, 06:33:24 pm »
Was quarantining innocent Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WWII a "defining aspect of our national character"?

I love the revisionist history on this point too - taking it from our modern "advanced" way of thinking.  None of us here know the fear created, particularly on the west coast, by Pearl Harbor.  We weren't there - we didn't feel it.  My parents told me that the fear was palpable daily.  There was no certainty at all about what the Japanese had the capability of doing and the west coast was in shock and terror.  When Roosevelt ordered that program, no one had the ability to judge it from the safety of decades or from the certain knowledge that we had won that war.  It is revisionist thinking based on the safety and security of absolute knowledge in the future.  I refuse to judge that generation harshly for that decision or for the decision to end the war with atomic bombs.  People DON'T know what the future holds and the best you can do in times of crisis is make your decisions based of the needs of the moment...not on the legacy as viewed from the safety of the future decades ahead.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2015, 06:34:27 pm »
If the "Muslims" are NOT here legally; they have NO rights under the Constitution.

The Supreme Court has said otherwise.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2015, 06:35:17 pm »
I love the revisionist history on this point too - taking it from our modern "advanced" way of thinking.  None of us here know the fear created, particularly on the west coast, by Pearl Harbor.  We weren't there - we didn't feel it.  My parents told me that the fear was palpable daily.  There was no certainty at all about what the Japanese had the capability of doing and the west coast was in shock and terror.  When Roosevelt ordered that program, no one had the ability to judge it from the safety of decades or from the certain knowledge that we had won that war.  It is revisionist thinking based on the safety and security of absolute knowledge in the future.  I refuse to judge that generation harshly for that decision or for the decision to end the war with atomic bombs.  People DON'T know what the future holds and the best you can do in times of crisis is make your decisions based of the needs of the moment...not on the legacy as viewed from the safety of the future decades ahead.

Voice of reason. Thank you for taking the time to school some of our less astute student(s).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 06:41:24 pm by aligncare »

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2015, 06:37:09 pm »
Meh - no need to even dig up a Nazi.


"Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims Gun Owners."

There. Justify that shit.

Untenable, constitutionally. Based on Trump's position on gun ownership he would never uttered those words.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 06:41:53 pm by aligncare »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2015, 06:38:14 pm »
I love the revisionist history on this point too - taking it from our modern "advanced" way of thinking.  None of us here know the fear created, particularly on the west coast, by Pearl Harbor.  We weren't there - we didn't feel it.  My parents told me that the fear was palpable daily.  There was no certainty at all about what the Japanese had the capability of doing and the west coast was in shock and terror.  When Roosevelt ordered that program, no one had the ability to judge it from the safety of decades or from the certain knowledge that we had won that war.  It is revisionist thinking based on the safety and security of absolute knowledge in the future.  I refuse to judge that generation harshly for that decision or for the decision to end the war with atomic bombs.  People DON'T know what the future holds and the best you can do in times of crisis is make your decisions based of the needs of the moment...not on the legacy as viewed from the safety of the future decades ahead.

You also make your decisions informed by mistakes made in the past.  It was a massive overreaction to intern innocent Japanese-American citizens during WWII. 

And requiring Muslim-American CITIZENS to have special ID would be a violation of their constitutional rights.  No court would support such nonsense.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2015, 06:39:58 pm »
Untenable, constitutionally. Based on Trump's position on gun ownership he would've never uttered those words.

So it all depends on "Trump's position"?  Trump's position is that Muslim-American citizens might be required to carry IDs and that's the end of it?

Oh, and somebody ELSE might utter the words "gun owners" based on Trump's precedent.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2015, 06:40:43 pm »
Meh - no need to even dig up a Nazi.


"Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims Gun Owners."

There. Justify that shit.

Illegal gun-owners - or just legal gun-owners that have already passed a background check?

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Offline EC

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2015, 06:41:44 pm »
Untenable, constitutionally. Based on Trump's position on gun ownership he would've never uttered those words.

So, how is considering seperate treatment based on religion tenable - constitutionally?

It isn't. Simple as.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2015, 06:45:20 pm »
So, how is considering seperate treatment based on religion tenable - constitutionally?

It isn't. Simple as.

Our President Doesn't Know That a "Religious Test" for Refugees Seeking Asylum Is Required by Federal Law.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/11/18/our_president_doesn_t_know_that_a_religious_test_for_refugees_seeking_asylum_is_required_by_federal_law

Sorry I don't have a lot of time to argue points...

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2015, 06:47:36 pm »
Have they asked Carson, Rubio, Cruz these same questions?  I'd be interested to hear their answers.

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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2015, 06:49:06 pm »
You also make your decisions informed by mistakes made in the past.  It was a massive overreaction to intern innocent Japanese-American citizens during WWII. 

And requiring Muslim-American CITIZENS to have special ID would be a violation of their constitutional rights.  No court would support such nonsense.

Yes you do, and it was an over-reaction then based on what subsequently occurred - something that was entirely unknown at the time.  It was plausible that there were Japanese infiltrators in that day, very plausible.  And because it was an overreaction then, something we only know because we aren't living in that time, does not mean it is an overreaction in every case.  In the case of the Muslim population here, we simply don't know how many are supporters of ISIS or Sharia - though polls (which I don't give too much weight to) indicate it is a rather sizable proportion of that population.  Because we don't know how many or exactly who these supporters might be, it means we need to consider all of our options for providing security to the rest of our population.  Considering all options does not mean that all options will be taken - events in the future would dictate that.  If Muslims set off nuclear devices in American cities - admittedly a very extreme situation - then things will happen that don't necessarily align with our politically correct way of thinking today.

From everything that I have read, within this article and anywhere else, no candidate - including Trump - has called for special IDs for Muslims.  Not ruling out hypotheticals (particularly those posed by reporters who have a story they want to get clicks on), as I've attempted to show in my posts here, does not mean that any action is going to be proposed or seriously considered, let alone implemented.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 06:56:02 pm by Scottftlc »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2015, 06:52:33 pm »
Our President Doesn't Know That a "Religious Test" for Refugees Seeking Asylum Is Required by Federal Law.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/11/18/our_president_doesn_t_know_that_a_religious_test_for_refugees_seeking_asylum_is_required_by_federal_law

Sorry I don't have a lot of time to argue points...

Yes, there is a religious test required of those seeking asylum.  Do you know what that test is?

"Are you fleeing RELIGIOUS persecution"? 

The test is NOT, are you a Muslim and, if you are, we can exclude you. 

I don't think Rush understands "religious test" the way the law intends.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline EC

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2015, 06:52:58 pm »
Our President Doesn't Know That a "Religious Test" for Refugees Seeking Asylum Is Required by Federal Law.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/11/18/our_president_doesn_t_know_that_a_religious_test_for_refugees_seeking_asylum_is_required_by_federal_law

Sorry I don't have a lot of time to argue points...

Irrelevent. The Worm knows jack shit about pretty much everything.

How is this idea constitutional? It quite simply isn't.

From the article:

Quote
Trump would not rule out warrantless searches in his plans for increased surveillance of the nation’s Muslims, Yahoo reported Thursday.

He also remained open toward registering U.S. Muslims in a database or giving them special identification identifying their faith, the news outlet added.

“We’re going to have to look at a lot of things very closely,” Trump said. “We’re going to have to look at the mosques. We’re going to have to look very, very carefully.”

Where does it distinguish between refugees, illegals and actual, you know, citizens? The ones who build the damned mosques.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2015, 06:53:17 pm »
Have they asked Carson, Rubio, Cruz these same questions?  I'd be interested to hear their answers.

I can guess their answers and I'll bet you can too.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2015, 06:55:36 pm »
Yes you do, and it was an over-reaction then based on what subsequently occurred - something that was entirely unknown at the time.  It was plausible that there were Japanese infiltrators in that day, very plausible.  And because it was an overreaction then, something we only know because we aren't living in that time, does not mean it is an overreaction in every case.  In the case of the Muslim population here, we simply don't know how many are supporters of ISIS or Sharia - though polls (which I don't give too much weight to) indicate it is a rather sizable proportion of that population.  Because we don't know how many or exactly who these supporters might be, it means we need to consider all of our options for providing security to the rest of our population.  Considering all options does not mean that all options will be taken - events in the future would dictate that.  If Muslims set off nuclear devices in American cities - admittedly a very extreme situation - then things will happen that don't necessarily align with our politically correct way of thinking today.

From everything that I have read, within this article and anywhere else, no candidate - including Trump - has called for special IDs for Muslims.  Not ruling out hypotheticals (particularly those posed by reporters who have a story they want to get clicks on), as I've attempted to show in my posts here, does mean that any action is going to be proposed or seriously considered, let alone implemented.



It would be an overreaction in EVERY case today, and no court would allow forcing IDs on Muslim-American citizens even in time of war.  Period.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2015, 07:01:31 pm »
It isn't 'this place'. Different posters are expressing different opinions. There isn't a single manifest orthodoxy being demanded and enforced like a certain other website. That's one of the best things about 'this place'.

I believe this, together with a leading Trump candidacy, has made Sinkspur a candidate for an intervention.   :laugh:
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2015, 07:02:15 pm »
Yes you do, and it was an over-reaction then based on what subsequently occurred - something that was entirely unknown at the time.  It was plausible that there were Japanese infiltrators in that day, very plausible.  And because it was an overreaction then, something we only know because we aren't living in that time, does not mean it is an overreaction in every case.  In the case of the Muslim population here, we simply don't know how many are supporters of ISIS or Sharia - though polls (which I don't give too much weight to) indicate it is a rather sizable proportion of that population.  Because we don't know how many or exactly who these supporters might be, it means we need to consider all of our options for providing security to the rest of our population.  Considering all options does not mean that all options will be taken - events in the future would dictate that.  If Muslims set off nuclear devices in American cities - admittedly a very extreme situation - then things will happen that don't necessarily align with our politically correct way of thinking today.

From everything that I have read, within this article and anywhere else, no candidate - including Trump - has called for special IDs for Muslims.  Not ruling out hypotheticals (particularly those posed by reporters who have a story they want to get clicks on), as I've attempted to show in my posts here, does mean that any action is going to be proposed or seriously considered, let alone implemented.

Trump said he wouldn't rule it out - that's the wise answer.  ISIS have pledged to attack Times Square, the White House - I believe they mean to.  If you can picture a scenario where they have pulled off some attacks like that - hitting a mall at Christmas, etc - where large numbers of innocents are slaughtered while ISIS gives out candy and Muslims are dancing in the streets - where they are the predominate majority in the world. 

Couple that scenario with the realization that ISIS has many cells HERE - and that they are getting indoctrination and arms from certain mosques - that the attacks have reached a level that can not be tolerated any longer - what real leader would not institute such measures in an emergency situation such as that?  No one said they would be permanent - but you would have to go into some rat dens to rout the rats out. 

Trump was just answering that he wouldn't rule that out - he was being refreshingly honest and non-politically correct.  Everybody keeps trying to set traps for him - "he said WHAT?????"  - but he is still leading in polls.  Americans want to feel safe again and they want a leader that actually loves this country, they don't want to hear platitudes anymore.

"Islam is a religion of peace."

What kind of f***ed up $*** is that?  That kind of stuff is going to get us all killed.  People had better wake up - we will be signing our own death warrant if we elect a politician that is going to continue these policies of trying to appease an enemy that wants us DEAD.

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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2015, 07:03:02 pm »
It would be an overreaction in EVERY case today, and no court would allow forcing IDs on Muslim-American citizens even in time of war.  Period.

And I have not seen or heard anyone, anywhere, propose that.  No presidential candidate or politician for that matter anywhere.  Donald Trump did not propose that. 

Would you still see it as an overreaction if, say, five major American cities were hit by dirty bombs?  If so, I would say you might be much closer to the Democrat position on such things than even the mainstream Republican position.  There are situations, unlikely as they might be, in which such a proposal would not be the overreaction we see it as today.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2015, 07:03:30 pm »
I believe this, together with a leading Trump candidacy, has made Sinkspur a candidate for an intervention.   :laugh:

Love you too man.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2015, 07:06:18 pm »
Love you too man.

Sometimes it takes 'tough love'.

 :whistle:

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2015, 07:07:30 pm »
Then why bring it up?

I'll tell you why:  it makes his followers orgasmic.


And yet, do you ever stop and think that many of his followers know he's merely saying it to draw a reaction?  That we're not the least bit concerned he'll ever try such a stunt?

He's running like a contestant on HIS Apprentice.  He's a master of manipulation of the media.

He's going to win.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2015, 07:08:18 pm »
And I have not seen or heard anyone, anywhere, propose that.  No presidential candidate or politician for that matter anywhere.  Donald Trump did not propose that. 

Would you still see it as an overreaction if, say, five major American cities were hit by dirty bombs?  If so, I would say you might be much closer to the Democrat position on such things than even the mainstream Republican position.  There are situations, unlikely as they might be, in which such a proposal would not be the overreaction we see it as today.

Trump said he would not rule it out. That means he would consider doing something that no court would ever allow him to do.   Is that responsible to even posit as a hypothetical?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Trump won' rule out database, special ID for Muslims
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2015, 07:09:18 pm »
Love you too man.

Come on, man!   Lighten up.   

I'm your biggest fan, Sink!   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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