Author Topic: Up from Trumpism  (Read 2736 times)

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bkepley

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Up from Trumpism
« on: August 28, 2015, 06:33:33 pm »
WILLIAM KRISTOL
The Weekly Standard

‘The Muse of History must not be fastidious.” Thus Churchill the historian. But as Churchill the politician knew, the Muse of Politics must not be fastidious either.

Which brings us to Donald Trump.

Trump is, to say the least, not in favor among the fastidious. He’s not even in much favor among those of us who are nonfastidious in our politics. We at The Weekly Standard enjoy the rough-and-readiness of the American political scene—but we also understand the distinction between a reality show and reality, between performing and governing. We love American democracy and are impressed by Trump’s mastery of some of the arts of democratic politics—but we also acknowledge that Trump embodies much that is dubious about mass democracy. We admire the American people—but we also grant that Trumpism exemplifies much that is problematic about American populism.

Still, the fact remains: Donald Trump stands, unexpectedly and impressively, at the center of gravity of the Republican presidential field. His rise has been spectacular, a shock not just to the Republican establishment but to the conservative movement. His fall may be sudden or protracted, complete or partial. Conceivably he won’t fall at all. But in any event, Republicans and conservatives can’t afford fastidiously to turn their back on, or mindlessly to embrace Trump .  .  . or Trumpism.

What is Trumpism? Elsewhere in this issue Christopher Caldwell and Julius Krein consider the question. In this they join other thoughtful commentators who have recently addressed this matter. What we have to add to the conversation is simply one name: Richard Nixon.

After all, isn’t Donald Trump’s political appeal a kind of cartoon version of Richard Nixon’s? Nixon was the most consequential Republican in America for a long time, arguably from the Hiss-Chambers hearings in 1948 until his resignation from the presidency more than a quarter-century later; a candidate who ran five times for national office, four times a winner and losing only once, possibly as a result of stolen votes in Illinois and Texas; a politician who invented the Silent Majority and laid the basis for the emergence of a governing Republican majority; a president whose achievements pale beside those of our beau ideal, Ronald Reagan. But no Nixon, no Gipper.

Now, in 2015, we seem to be replaying history in fast forward. What took 16 years, from 1964 to 1980, is now happening in a matter of 16 months. The Tea Party was in a way a replay of the Goldwater movement—a visceral, deeply felt, and in many ways justified rebellion against the pretensions and depredations of big government liberalism. Both rebellions fell short of attaining the presidency. Both were followed by a less constitutionalist but perhaps more wide-ranging revolt against the cultured despisers of American patriotism and traditions—the first of which produced the Nixon ascendancy over several tumultuous years, the second of which has fueled the Trump phenomenon over several rambunctious months.

The Nixon era was followed, after a short interlude, by Reagan. The task today is to ensure that the Trumpian moment is followed—with no interlude, and with time telescoped—by a neo-Reaganite victory, one that builds on what is best in the Tea Party and what is healthy in Trumpism to create a politically viable governing conservatism.

The current candidates are, understandably, struggling to come to grips with the phenomenon of Trump. None has put the pieces together as Reagan did. Can one of the 2016 contenders be Reagan to Trump’s Nixon? Can any of the candidates—or one not yet in the race—move beyond disgust at a decadent liberalism to forge a vigorous governing conservatism? That is the question of the hour. The Muse of History will smile on any political leader who can pull this off.

More here: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/trumpism_1020528.html

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 11:50:51 pm »
Quote
Trump is, to say the least, not in favor among the fastidious

When your opening line references the fastidious, you've lost the debate.


bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2015, 11:52:56 pm »
When your opening line references the fastidious, you've lost the debate.

Probably so but not the argument.

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2015, 11:55:04 pm »
Probably so but not the argument.

Both are lost.

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 11:57:30 pm »
Both are lost.

No Churchill lost the debate but won the argument.  The important thing is what history says.

Offline massadvj

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 12:00:45 am »
So Kristol doen't like Trump, is that it?  The erudite language is so cumbersome and the metaphors so stretched I have no idea what the hell poor Billy is talking about.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2015, 12:01:34 am »
The problem I have with hit jobs like this, there is no data/references to back generalizations like "most of us".  Anyone can say anything on the web without referencing any groundwork/research or facts and people take it as the gospel. Advertizers love it for the clicks it generates but at the end of the day, has little to no value.

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 12:06:55 am »
So Kristol doen't like Trump, is that it?  The erudite language is so cumbersome and the metaphors so stretched I have no idea what the hell poor Billy is talking about.
So in other words you have nothing against what he says other than the way he says it?  I can kinda understand that but we must concede it is a poor reason to reject a writer.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2015, 12:28:23 am »
The problem I have with hit jobs like this, there is no data/references to back generalizations like "most of us".  Anyone can say anything on the web without referencing any groundwork/research or facts and people take it as the gospel. Advertizers love it for the clicks it generates but at the end of the day, has little to no value.

LOL!  Just like Trump can say anything without facts or any basis in reality and his Trumpians take it as gospel.

The media love all Trump's bullshit, but, at the end of the day, it has little to no value.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 12:34:31 am »
LOL!  Just like Trump can say anything without facts or any basis in reality and his Trumpians take it as gospel.

The media love all Trump's bullshit, but, at the end of the day, it has little to no value.

sinkspur please come here often and stay. I will buy the beer.

Offline famousdayandyear

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2015, 12:53:51 am »
sinkspur please come here often and stay. I will buy the beer.

Get a room

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2015, 01:10:17 am »

Godzilla

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 01:22:12 am »
So in other words you have nothing against what he says other than the way he says it?  I can kinda understand that but we must concede it is a poor reason to reject a writer.

Kristol wasn't on the ball with this article.  I found it hard to decipher as well.

Godzilla

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2015, 01:24:43 am »
LOL!  Just like Trump can say anything without facts or any basis in reality and his Trumpians take it as gospel.

The media love all Trump's bullshit, but, at the end of the day, it has little to no value.

Unfortunately, the media only wants to make money selling advertisements.  So they'll cover whatever sells.

Trump sells, so the media will feed the beast hoping for more soundbites to drive sales.

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 01:27:22 am »
Kristol wasn't on the ball with this article.  I found it hard to decipher as well.

Not a problem though.  Kristol is a serious man.

Offline massadvj

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2015, 01:39:55 am »
So in other words you have nothing against what he says other than the way he says it?  I can kinda understand that but we must concede it is a poor reason to reject a writer.

I can't figure out what the hell he is trying to say so I really don't know whether I agree or not.

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2015, 01:45:37 am »
I can't figure out what the hell he is trying to say so I really don't know whether I agree or not.
.
That is BS and you are lying or engaging in polemics.

Offline massadvj

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2015, 02:49:35 am »
.
That is BS and you are lying or engaging in polemics.

No, I honestly don't get what Kristol is trying to say here.  Trump is Nixon?  Trump is Reagan?  Something about Reagan coming after Nixon but this time it's 14 months?  What happened 14 months ago?  The thing is such a tangled mess I just gave up on it.  I am not a Bill Kristol fan (too much of a neocon for my taste), so I really don't have much interest in this piece one way or another.

I am not a Trump supporter if that is what you are getting at.  I assume Kristol is not, either.  Whether my reasons for not supporting Trump are the same as Kristol's I cannot say.

Offline famousdayandyear

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2015, 03:01:08 am »
No, I honestly don't get what Kristol is trying to say here.  Trump is Nixon?  Trump is Reagan?  Something about Reagan coming after Nixon but this time it's 14 months?  What happened 14 months ago?  The thing is such a tangled mess I just gave up on it.  I am not a Bill Kristol fan (too much of a neocon for my taste), so I really don't have much interest in this piece one way or another.

I am not a Trump supporter if that is what you are getting at.  I assume Kristol is not, either.  Whether my reasons for not supporting Trump are the same as Kristol's I cannot say.

Marketing 101 -  An introduction to marketing

Offline massadvj

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2015, 04:01:51 am »
Marketing 101 -  An introduction to marketing

Lesson one in marketing is to keep it simple. 

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2015, 05:05:35 am »
So Kristol doen't like Trump, is that it?  The erudite language is so cumbersome and the metaphors so stretched I have no idea what the hell poor Billy is talking about.
Boring.
Reminds me of Buckley.
Highly overrated.  Has zero cred.

That's my Trump impersonation.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 05:09:07 am by Once-Ler »

Offline massadvj

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2015, 11:21:42 am »
Boring.
Reminds me of Buckley.
Highly overrated.  Has zero cred.

That's my Trump impersonation.

Oh, I can do better than that.

Bill Kristol is the biggest loser in, like, the history of losing.  No loser ever lost as much as Bill Kristol.  I mean, if there was a Loser Hall of Fame, there would be a wax statue of Bill Kristol standing out in front.  He is such a loser that his magazine has lost -- I don't know -- a LOT, let me tell you.  And so, what has he got?  Nothing!  The man has nothing!  Meanwhile, I am a billionaire, so you can see where this is going.


(I should be a Trump speech writer.)

Offline olde north church

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2015, 12:00:22 pm »
Billy Kristol spent more time attacking Trump in one piece as he ever spent attacking Obama in 7 years.  His gravy train is slowly coming to an end.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Online Fishrrman

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2015, 01:37:00 am »
mass wrote above:
[[ So Kristol doen't like Trump, is that it?  The erudite language is so cumbersome and the metaphors so stretched I have no idea what the hell poor Billy is talking about. ]]

And dat's sayin' sumthin', comin' from a professor like yurself!

I think Kristol comes across as confused and discombobulated because ALL of the establishment GOP types -- including their opinion-makers -- are, as well !

Trump has 'em in a tizzy !
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 01:37:37 am by Fishrrman »

bkepley

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Re: Up from Trumpism
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2015, 01:42:58 am »
I can't figure out what the hell he is trying to say so I really don't know whether I agree or not.

What he says is that the old conservatives must absorb the new Right.  It seems like a popular opinion these days.