Author Topic: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations  (Read 13821 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2015, 04:31:00 pm »
What about vaccinations for diphtheria, polio? IOW more serious diseases than measles.
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Offline raml

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 04:48:29 pm »
I nearly died from measles when I was a child. I knew of another friend who lost much of his eyesight from measles. I had it back in the 50's and yes there were deaths back then and I was kept for 3 weeks in a very dark room when I got them and I remember quite well how sick I was and I was glad my children didn't have to get this disease. I am not sure about mandatory thoughI hate government getting involved when I really think this outbreak would not be happening if Obama's government hadn't let all these illegals from 3rd world countries into ours ignoring our immigration laws. I really don't believe there is a large percentage of legal citizens that don't vaccinate their children.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 05:11:05 pm »
I nearly died from measles when I was a child. I knew of another friend who lost much of his eyesight from measles. I had it back in the 50's and yes there were deaths back then and I was kept for 3 weeks in a very dark room when I got them and I remember quite well how sick I was and I was glad my children didn't have to get this disease. I am not sure about mandatory thoughI hate government getting involved when I really think this outbreak would not be happening if Obama's government hadn't let all these illegals from 3rd world countries into ours ignoring our immigration laws. I really don't believe there is a large percentage of legal citizens that don't vaccinate their children.
Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.

How about "forced" vaccinations for polio and diphtheria? My grandfather lost three siblings from diphtheria in the 1880s/1890s in Dakota Territory. Then the (ineffective) treatment for diphtheria was gargling kerosene.

Kerosene and die, vaccine and live. In the 1800s people could be excused because they didn't know. Today it is self-inflicted ignorance.

By the way, I have a new book on how you can eat all you want, perform no exercise, and melt the pounds away.  The book after that will prove the earth is flat.



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Offline musiclady

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2015, 05:13:47 pm »
If you like your children you can keep your children............unless the state decides your children are their children.

This doesn't have to be handled by the state.

Just like my child doesn't have the right to go around beating other kids up, he/she doesn't have the right to expose other children to a deadly disease.

And just because some people get measles without ill effects doesn't diminish the importance of keeping it from spreading to others who will.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2015, 05:19:15 pm »
I'm not going to post my opinion on vaccinations.  I just want to put something out there that I'm not hearing a lot of people talk about. 

I see that the gist of blaming parents for not vaccinating their children is aimed ever so subtly at homeschoolers.  I just assume that you have to present proof of vaccinations to be allowed to go to public school - that's the way it was when I was a child.  Everybody is hatin' on homeschoolers - we need more regulations!!!

What no one is talking about, these homeschooler types haven't been vaccinating for years - and THIS year we have a breakout?  I saw on TV - there are 100 cases of measles nationwide this year.  I would have thought it was more judging from the hysteria.  I saw a map of where the outbreaks are occurring - it was in places where Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors were sent.

They say this year's flu vaccine is only 23% effective.  I wonder if that is because of Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors?  They're usually pretty good at predicting which strains to include in the vaccine, but this year - not so much.

I can see where this is headed - more regulations and scrutiny of homeschooler types - who also are usually preppers/tea partiers.

This whole outcry is to divert questions about what might have Obama's unaccompanied minors brought here to us.  In classic Democrat style - it's also a twofer.  Now, we'll blame homeschoolers - instead of Obama.

You have a good point about the war on homeschoolers, and on what the left will do with more regulations.

That doesn't change my view on the need to vaccinate against a potentially deadly disease, though....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2015, 05:21:03 pm »
If you like your children you can keep your children............unless the state decides your children are their children.

I think the state has pretty much decided that your children are their children.  Just mopping up the details.

People who afraid of the unvaccinated should get their children vaccinated as many times as they need to so they aren't afraid.

Then they'll find out what they want to subject other people's children to in the name of protecting their own...


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Offline aligncare

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2015, 05:24:08 pm »
Precisely.

This has nothing to do with government overreach, IMO.

It has everything to do with protecting innocent children from physical harm.

If you believe there's unanimity in the scientific community about mass vaccination—that they are both benign and universally beneficial. However, there are opposing views and medical ethics to consider. And complications to weigh.

Deaths have been reported in the literature as a result of vaccines. To a policy theorist, death may be an acceptable risk, in the abstract. But in your world, that's your child or grandchild that just expired a few short minutes ago or maybe a few hours after receiving a state mandated vaccine. That's a heavy burden.

I understand others disagree—I simply chose this post at random for comment to presents a contrary view.

There is a question that has always puzzled me, though. What was human evolution before vaccines and what will human evolution be after vaccines? Or is there a new paradigm in the universe? Evolution plus vaccines?

Yes, we are a species that evolution made clever enough to make vaccines and modify genes. But did evolution also make us smart enough to control evolutionary forces, or just arrogant enough to tamper with it?

Yes, we know a lot. But, how much do we really understand?

Offline aligncare

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2015, 05:31:33 pm »
Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.

How about "forced" vaccinations for polio and diphtheria? My grandfather lost three siblings from diphtheria in the 1880s/1890s in Dakota Territory. Then the (ineffective) treatment for diphtheria was gargling kerosene.

Kerosene and die, vaccine and live. In the 1800s people could be excused because they didn't know. Today it is self-inflicted ignorance.

By the way, I have a new book on how you can eat all you want, perform no exercise, and melt the pounds away.  The book after that will prove the earth is flat.

There are documented cases from the 1930s and 40s of twins dying from diphtheria–pertussis vaccine. They are not isolated incidents. In 1986, congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and has awarded over $2 billion dollars in compensation for deaths and injuries caused by vaccines.

Online massadvj

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2015, 05:46:34 pm »
I think the internet is making paranoia and stupidity more mainstream. It used to be those types were on the far fringes, but with the internet, suddenly everyone is an 'expert' pushing pseudoscience. The fact that anyone takes Natural News or Mercola seriously when it comes to health and medicine say a lot about the lack of discernment in the public. I know reasonably intelligent people who actually believe in chemtrails. Even my State rep has passed along chemtrail conspiracy stories. People are actually following Jenny McCarthy for medical advice on vaccines versus over 100 years of science.

Add to that, people selling junk science products so they are vested in pushing bull about mainstream science. The 'in' thing now is people using essential oil warmers and rubs to cure everything. They even have MLM scams to sell them to unwitting victims claiming they'll cure everything.

High tech snake oil.

Exactly right.  Look at the 911 Truthers, the anti-Flouride crowd, etc.  The Internet gives them a vehicle for spreading irrational fear.

Of course, once the number of people who buy into this nonsense gets large enough, politicians will happily pander to them.

Nonetheless, I strongly feel that vaccinations should be a matter of individual parental choice.  It is a shame that so many parents are buying into the conspiracy theories.  But I blame a government that has failed to demonstrate its good faith with the people more than I blame the people themselves.  This is the same government that tells me global warming is destroying the planet, that I must fork over half my earnings in taxes at all levels and it still can't keep from going $18 trillion in debt, that Al Qaeda is on the run, yada yada yada.  When that government shows up at my door with a white suit and mask, holding a hypodermic needle to "do what's right" for my kid... I'm not so sure I can trust it.  Therein lies the problem. 

The guy holding the hypodermic needle has no credibility.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 05:46:58 pm by massadvj »

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2015, 06:07:06 pm »
 
Polio vaccine, for instance, causes almost all cases of polio in the U.S.

Most of us are infected with SV-40 because it contaminated polio vaccines.  SV-40 may cause cancer.

As usual, anytime you have a group of people claiming that any position is 'settled science', it isn't...


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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2015, 06:35:35 pm »
Good informational article, from Mother Jones. Not biased. Read it and you'll agree.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-exemptions-states-pertussis-map

"How Many People Aren’t Vaccinating Their Kids in Your State?"
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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2015, 06:38:34 pm »
Good informational article, from Mother Jones. Not biased. Read it and you'll agree.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-exemptions-states-pertussis-map

"How Many People Aren’t Vaccinating Their Kids in Your State?"

Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2015, 06:51:10 pm »
Exactly right.  Look at the 911 Truthers, the anti-Flouride crowd, etc.  The Internet gives them a vehicle for spreading irrational fear.

OTOH, the media may be the ones spreading an irrational fear of the unvaccinated...




"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2015, 06:55:51 pm »
Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!
The article is not biased. Read it to become better informed.

I would think a site such as this one, with a daily barrage of fringe sources, would encourage open mindedness.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2015, 06:56:35 pm »
There are documented cases from the 1930s and 40s of twins dying from diphtheria–pertussis vaccine. They are not isolated incidents. In 1986, congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and has awarded over $2 billion dollars in compensation for deaths and injuries caused by vaccines.

There are documented cases of deaths in auto accidents due to the use of seat belts. Is that reason enough to forego the obvious and greater benefits of seat belts?

It is not coincidental that the number of cases of measles reaches a 20-year high at the same time that the number of people refusing to vaccinate against measles reached a 20-year high.

Newton's Third Law.

It is also not coincidental that the reported yearly cases of measles in the US plummeted at the point in time when national vaccination programs were begun.   

Insofar as the $2 billion awarded in compensation over the last 29 years are concerned, a vast majority of compensations from legal suits are awarded out of sheer expediency. It s cheaper, faster, and less of a PR mess to just not fight the law suit.
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Online Bigun

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2015, 06:57:17 pm »
The article is not biased. Read it to become better informed.

I would think a site such as this one, with a daily barrage of fringe sources, would encourage open mindedness.

NO thanks! Not about to give those Commies a hit!  NO Way!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2015, 06:57:54 pm »
Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!

What's the possible political bias on this issue?
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Online massadvj

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2015, 06:59:51 pm »
OTOH, the media may be the ones spreading an irrational fear of the unvaccinated...

Valid point.

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2015, 07:00:54 pm »
Just a little note of information here for you folks to ponder!

In the year 2001 the CDC declared measles to have been eradicated in the United States! It remained eradicated until Obama imported thousands of Central American children into the country illegally!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2015, 07:28:12 pm »
Just a little note of information here for you folks to ponder!

In the year 2001 the CDC declared measles to have been eradicated in the United States! It remained eradicated until Obama imported thousands of Central American children into the country illegally!
Ponder the FACT it was eradicated because of vaccines. However one needs a mind, open enough to study the basics of public health.

Central American countries have equal or higher vaccination rates, than the modern USA, which is going backwards into ignorance, thanks to whackobirds spreading falsehoods over important public health topics.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2015, 07:28:38 pm »
Valid point.

I don't know.

We have a rising number of unvaccinated citizens and a rising number of possibly unvaccinated people from the lower rungs of Hispano-American societies merging into the country.

All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2015, 07:45:32 pm »
All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!

Or one unvaccinated kid from Juarez riding next to vaccinated children who remain susceptible to measles and VOILA!


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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2015, 07:48:15 pm »
I don't know.

We have a rising number of unvaccinated citizens and a rising number of possibly unvaccinated people from the lower rungs of Hispano-American societies merging into the country.

All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!

I've read that it is possible to still get measles even after you've been vaccinated, so, maybe the infector is a danger to unvaccinated and vaccinated children, albeit at different rates. 

 

 
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2015, 07:49:30 pm »
Silly states like California allow adults to opt out of vaccinating their children for "personal reasons". 

It is not unreasonable to require certain vaccines prior to admission to the first year of school, public or private.  It's not to protect your kid.  It's to protect my kid and everyone else's kid. If you opt out, you're free to home school your child.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2015, 07:56:57 pm »
It's not to protect your kid.  It's to protect my kid and everyone else's kid.

If you're afraid for your kid, feel free to get them vaccinated as many times as you think are necessary for them to be protected.

Won't hurt your kid, vaccines are safe... right?


« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 07:58:33 pm by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan