Police Officer: Trust Me, Ferguson Changed Everything

[flowers]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2789675/thousands-gathered-nationwide-peaceful-rally-against-ferguson-shooting.html

Thousands gathered on Saturday for a second day of organized rallies and marches protesting Michael Brown's death and other fatal police shootings in the St. Louis area and nationwide.

The events remained peaceful but boisterous gatherings into the night. Vietnam-era peace activists, New York City seminarians and hundreds of fast-food workers bused in from Chicago, Nashville and other cities marched alongside local residents, spurred by a national campaign dubbed Ferguson October.

Outside Busch Stadium in downtown St. Louis, where the Cardinals hosted the San Francisco Giants in the first game of the National League Championship Series, several dozen protesters stood on the sidewalk, chanting and holding signs.

Read the comment section.

[flowers]

http://fergusonoctober.com/about/endorsing-organizations/

interesting website.

[mystery-ak]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/12/police-officer-trust-me-ferguson-changed-everything/?print=1

Police Officer: Trust Me, Ferguson Changed Everything

Posted By Deputy Matt On 11:14 AM 10/12/2014

I’m a cop.

A few weeks ago, two of my beat partners and I were called to an apartment in a fairly nice complex to help a mother and father with their 16-year-old son.

The son had no criminal history, and by all accounts was a decent kid. But he was having some problems at home — breaking things and making threats with a knife — and the parents needed our help.

When we finally located the son, who is of mixed ethnicity (dad is white, mom is Hispanic), he instantly began cussing and yelling at us. He took a fighting stance and said he was not going to do anything we told him.

Luckily, we were able to calm him and get him into handcuffs without any blows being thrown.

We asked why he was so hostile towards us. His response? Ferguson. The cops could not be trusted because of what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. He told us that he wanted to kill all white cops because of what “they” had done to Michael Brown.

His parents were mortified by his statements and they apologized profusely, telling us that is not how they raised their son.

I live and work more than 1900 miles west of Ferguson, but the effects of that case are still being felt here. Not a week goes by without someone I encounter mentioning it.

“Ferguson” has become the latest defense for committing crime, often invoked by people we arrest and their loved ones. Sadly, this feeling has not only infected the normal criminal element that I expect that behavior from, but even seems to be effecting middle class families as well.

While the effects can be felt far away, the localized effects are far more serious.

On Wednesday, a white officer in St. Louis, Missouri returned fire — in other words, he was shot at first — killing a black male suspect.

Normally, this event would barely garner back page news, because sadly, it is no longer newsworthy when a cop gets shot at.  But, in the shadow of Ferguson, such an event is national news, and serves as fuel for more demonstrations, protests and vandalism.

According to accounts from Wednesday night’s “demonstrations,” the crowd was calling for Darren Wilson to be killed.

The same people who we used to count on for support, the good, law abiding general public, are now reluctant to trust us.

We, the local cops they have seen and contacted in the past, have not changed.  We have done nothing different.

What has changed is the public’s perception of us, created by the reckless reporting by nearly every news outlet very early after the shooting of Michael Brown. The rush to be first with the story over the desire to be correct is having dire consequences nationwide, and quite honestly, has made my job more difficult and more dangerous.

Since the shooting of Mike Brown, and the month-plus long circus that followed, the number of law enforcement officers being shot in the line of duty has skyrocketed, but the average citizen has no idea this is happening.

The national media jumps all over a story where an 18-year-old criminal punk, who shot at a cop, is shot and killed. That criminal is made out to be some sort of victim by many outlets. That story is front page news all over the country.

Did you know that in just three days this week (October 7-9), six cops were shot in the line of duty, one of whom was killed?

October 7: Chicago, IL – One officer, a captain, is shot twice — once in the face, once in the chest.  Other officers at the scene take fire and are pinned down by the suspect.

October 8: North Las Vegas, NV – An officer is shot during a gunfight with a suspect.

October 8:  Phoenix, AZ – An officer is shot in the face while on a traffic stop.  The suspects flee and the officer calls for help.  Two other officers arrive and start rendering aid, only to come under fire from the suspects who circle back and attack the responding officers.

October 8:  Oklahoma City, OK – Two officers are shot by a suspect during the same event.

October 9:  Midland County, TX – Sgt. Mike Naylor is shot and killed while responding to a report of a sexual assault.

Where are those stories in the national news?  What does it say about the media who make a victim out of a criminal, and ignore the good guys being injured and killed trying to keep society safe?

People ask me if things are different for cops since Ferguson.

Yes, yes they are.

[240B]

Ferguson is a symptom not a cause. It is a symptom of Holder/Obama and their Black clowns who are determined to keep Black people hating White people and cops.
 
They know very well that Black people commit most of the crime in America, and they want them excused. They actually want Black people to have their version of a 'right' to commit crime. That is their goal. Blacks can do anything they want, to anyone they want, and there will be no consequences.
 
The Holder/Obama crowd is not looking for 'equality', what they want is dominance. They want to rule the Whites/Hispanics/Asians. They want to be immune from any law. That is their goal. That is what they are yelling for. And with Obama cheering them on, he is leading them to a clash. Eventually it will be us or them. This 'coexist' crap is for stupid hippies and Leftist idiots. It is not reality.
 
Only a fool would want to 'coexist' with someone who openly wants to rape, rob, and kill you. It is not "racist" to be wary of a person who is dangerous. It is simple common sense. It is 'reality', not racism.

[MACVSOG68]

What has changed is the public’s perception of us, created by the reckless reporting by nearly every news outlet very early after the shooting of Michael Brown. The rush to be first with the story over the desire to be correct is having dire consequences nationwide, and quite honestly, has made my job more difficult and more dangerous.

Which reckless reporting was encouraged by a reckless administration, with Obama and Holder whipping up the public long before any real evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the cop, just as they did with Martin and what Obama did with Gates.  I'm still waiting to read all the news of the shootings of the cops.

[Cyber Liberty]

There's a bit of chicken and egg to this.  Which caused what?

On the one side we see the cops having their job made more difficult by the press and a population becoming less trusting, on the other we have cops becoming heavily militarized with MRAPS and automatic weapons in some cases.  Plus helmets and masks.  Policies are in place for much tougher action against ordinary people.

Which caused which?  I am not prepared to guess.  I can say this:  Ordinary interactions between police and other citizens is becoming dicey.  It's getting to be like landing an airplane.  Any police encounter you walk away from is a good stop.   I don't blame this on Ferguson, nor necessarily even Obama and Holder.  Something else is going on.

[Cyber Liberty]

Which reckless reporting was encouraged by a reckless administration, with Obama and Holder whipping up the public long before any real evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the cop, just as they did with Martin and what Obama did with Gates.  I'm still waiting to read all the news of the shootings of the cops.

The Phoenix one is a big local story.

[MACVSOG68]

There's a bit of chicken and egg to this.  Which caused what?

On the one side we see the cops having their job made more difficult by the press and a population becoming less trusting, on the other we have cops becoming heavily militarized with MRAPS and automatic weapons in some cases.  Plus helmets and masks.  Policies are in place for much tougher action against ordinary people.

Which caused which?  I am not prepared to guess.  I can say this:  Ordinary interactions between police and other citizens is becoming dicey.  It's getting to be like landing an airplane.  Any police encounter you walk away from is a good stop.   I don't blame this on Ferguson, nor necessarily even Obama and Holder.  Something else is going on.

Holder and Obama have a history of decision-making based on race, and Ferguson was no different.  The interaction between Brown and Wilson didn't involve tanks or automatic weapons.  Later actions by the police didn't help but the protests and looting were caused by the original shooting. 

If the media and the racist politicians even recognize the black crime and violence, they justify it as a natural reaction to slavery, Jim Crow and a racist economic and social order.

The police departments are hardly blameless in over-extending their authority, and when they do so, should be held to account.  At the same time it's important to remember that there are 33 thousand violent gangs in the US with almost a million and a half members.  And that doesn't count potential terrorists and just plain nutcases.  Every time a cop stops a car or is called to a residence, he or she is a potential victim too.

[Cyber Liberty]

Holder and Obama have a history of decision-making based on race, and Ferguson was no different.  The interaction between Brown and Wilson didn't involve tanks or automatic weapons.  Later actions by the police didn't help but the protests and looting were caused by the original shooting. 

If the media and the racist politicians even recognize the black crime and violence, they justify it as a natural reaction to slavery, Jim Crow and a racist economic and social order.

The police departments are hardly blameless in over-extending their authority, and when they do so, should be held to account.  At the same time it's important to remember that there are 33 thousand violent gangs in the US with almost a million and a half members.  And that doesn't count potential terrorists and just plain nutcases.  Every time a cop stops a car or is called to a residence, he or she is a potential victim too.

I can agree with all of that.  Ferguson is like the Zimmerman/Martin deal:  Totally blown out of proportion by the race hustlers, two of whom are named Obama and Holder.

I'm referring to the more generalized case of the rest of the country, like traffic stops in Deming NM that turn into multiple rectal exams in nearby hospitals.  There is a coarsening of the relationship between Police officers and the rest of the people.  There needs to be mutual trust in order for the whole thing to work out, and that's what's being corroded.  Someone mentioned upthread Ferguson is a symptom, not a cause.  That's true.  Obama and Holder certainly hold more than their share of the problem, but I suggest there is more to it than that. 

Those two will be gone someday, and this problem between Police and community will still be here.  I don't like having to think of cops as the enemy, and I'm not even a "person of color." 

[sinkspur]

We, the local cops they have seen and contacted in the past, have not changed.  We have done nothing different.

Sorry, officer.  This is bull. You guys pull your gun as a first response to anything out of the ordinary and use it on dogs, on people, at the slightest provocation.

In the past, a cop never pulled a gun unless he was actually threatened.  Now, we've got cops shooting mental cases who are "threatening" you tough guys with plastic forks as you stand there in your bullet-stopping vests.

YOU'VE changed, pal. Stop shooting our dogs and our elderly citizens at the drop of a hat and we'll change our attitudes.  It's your own damned fault.

[Cyber Liberty]

We, the local cops they have seen and contacted in the past, have not changed.  We have done nothing different.

Sorry, officer.  This is bull. You guys pull your gun as a first response to anything out of the ordinary and use it on dogs, on people, at the slightest provocation.

In the past, a cop never pulled a gun unless he was actually threatened.  Now, we've got cops shooting mental cases who are "threatening" you tough guys with plastic forks as you stand there in your bullet-stopping vests.

YOU'VE changed, pal. Stop shooting our dogs and our elderly citizens at the drop of a hat and we'll change our attitudes.  It's your own damned fault.

Now, now Sinks...you know it's only the 90% making the other 10% look bad....

[DCPatriot]

Sorry, but I believe the storyteller here is making it whole cloth.

A "nice" white-hispanic with no criminal background is going to face off against cops?  With his parents standing there?  And blame it on Michael Brown?

Don't make me laugh.

B U L L S H I T !

[Cyber Liberty]

Sorry, but I believe the storyteller here is making it whole cloth.

A "nice" white-hispanic with no criminal background is going to face off against cops?  With his parents standing there?  And blame it on Michael Brown?

Don't make me laugh.

B U L L S H I T !

I was disappointed.  Nothing about being an aspiring hip-hop artist who is turning his life around and is enrolled in Divinity school.  Starting Monday. 

[240B]

Sorry, but I believe the storyteller here is making it whole cloth.

A "nice" white-hispanic with no criminal background is going to face off against cops?  With his parents standing there?  And blame it on Michael Brown?

Don't make me laugh.

B U L L S H I T !

They have to keep pushing it. Ferguson was starting to fade away, with Ebola and everything else. The media has to keep it front page, and force it to be a story, for whatever race-agenda they have.
 
I have to agree. The story is implausable, overly dramatic, and well, just stupid. Even if it did happen, it is just some mentally disturbed kid, possibly retarded, who is lashing out. He should be put in a asylum somewhere.
 
But what does this kid have to do with Ferguson, or America, or me? Screw him. Toss his ass in jail and that is the end of it. Why all the drama?

[DCPatriot]

I was disappointed.  Nothing about being an aspiring hip-hop artist who is turning his life around and is enrolled in Divinity school.  Starting Monday. 

 

[mystery-ak]

I was disappointed.  Nothing about being an aspiring hip-hop artist who is turning his life around and is enrolled in Divinity school.  Starting Monday. 

OMG...I laughed so hard...

[MACVSOG68]

I can agree with all of that.  Ferguson is like the Zimmerman/Martin deal:  Totally blown out of proportion by the race hustlers, two of whom are named Obama and Holder.

I'm referring to the more generalized case of the rest of the country, like traffic stops in Deming NM that turn into multiple rectal exams in nearby hospitals.  There is a coarsening of the relationship between Police officers and the rest of the people.  There needs to be mutual trust in order for the whole thing to work out, and that's what's being corroded.  Someone mentioned upthread Ferguson is a symptom, not a cause.  That's true.  Obama and Holder certainly hold more than their share of the problem, but I suggest there is more to it than that. 

Those two will be gone someday, and this problem between Police and community will still be here.  I don't like having to think of cops as the enemy, and I'm not even a "person of color."

Considering the growth of violent gangs in the US I don't think of cops as the enemy.  But I also see them, as anyone in positions of power, as vulnerable to the use of abuse.  I do support the use of body cams, better training, more positive interaction with the public they are protecting, civilian oversight boards, and strong prosecution in the case of any type of officer initiated abuse.

When the left hears of gun violence, they want more done on gun control; when they hear of the occasional abortion clinic protests or violence against abortion doctors, they want controls placed on Christians.  Most who have an agenda, being either from the right or left, rarely put these incidences into perspective.

And once again, I would never approve of any type of abuse by a police officer.

[Cyber Liberty]

Considering the growth of violent gangs in the US I don't think of cops as the enemy.  But I also see them, as anyone in positions of power, as vulnerable to the use of abuse.  I do support the use of body cams, better training, more positive interaction with the public they are protecting, civilian oversight boards, and strong prosecution in the case of any type of officer initiated abuse.

When the left hears of gun violence, they want more done on gun control; when they hear of the occasional abortion clinic protests or violence against abortion doctors, they want controls placed on Christians.  Most who have an agenda, being either from the right or left, rarely put these incidences into perspective.

And once again, I would never approve of any type of abuse by a police officer.

I wish it was all about the gangs.  It's more than that.  They treat all citizens as the enemy, whether they're obviously gang or not.  They call us "little people," or civilians, which is a diminutive.  When in doubt, they push people against walls and cars.  They employ empty threats at the drop of a hat.  You can't even open your door to a cop without him jamming a foot in your door. 

"I didn't start this war."

[mountaineer]

Anyone remember this?

Remember Howard Johnson's   
Allen Johnson Jr.
My New Orleans.com

Former Orleans Parish School Board member Elliot “Doc” Willard steps briskly out of the Martin Luther King Day parade near City Hall.

He joins two other men who are looking up at a hotel on Loyola Avenue. Thirty-five years ago, on Jan. 7, 1973, the high-rise was a Howard Johnson’s Motor Lodge, the climactic scene of a sniper’s rampage that left 10 people dead – including five New Orleans police officers and the gunman. Ten other people were wounded. Tens of millions of dollars in property were destroyed.

Armed with a .44 caliber, semiautomatic rifle, self-styled black militant Mark J. Essex kept hundreds of police at bay for 10 hours. He set diversionary fires on the upper floors of the hotel and shot responding firefighters and cops.

People below scrambled for cover at City Hall, the old Louisiana Supreme Court building and the surrounding plazas.

Downtown New Orleans was paralyzed. A stunned city watched the drama unfold on live television. Afterwards, racial tensions remained elevated for months.

Willard expresses surprise that police didn’t observe the 35th anniversary of “one of the greatest tragedies to ever befall the New Orleans Police Department,” according to the department’s online history. “Somebody should have brought that up,” Willard says.

A police spokesperson blamed “major damage” from Hurricane Katrina. The NOPD hasn’t observed the anniversary since January 2005.

“Time goes by and people forget,” says lawyer Harry Tervalon, a former NOPD officer who was posted at Charity Hospital when a sniper’s bullet whizzed by his head. “A lot of the guys on the force now were not even born then.”

David Kent, a crime victims’ rights advocate who retired as a NOPD deputy chief in 1982, says: “Family survivors of officers killed in the line of duty should at least warrant a ceremony in the public domain.”

Janet Johnson, a clinical psychiatrist at Tulane University Medical Center says that the “long-ago tragedy” of Howard Johnson’s for the NOPD has been “eclipsed” by the “ongoing tragedy” of Katrina. “The police department has been very hard hit and they are still having a very tough time,” says Johnson, whose clients don’t include cops. Many officers lost their homes; family and loved ones have moved away.

Two years after a hurricane, it’s easier to observe celebrations than a 1973 massacre.

In 2008, Jan. 7th belonged exclusively to the locally hosted BCS college football championship – sandwiched between dates for Mayor Ray Nagin’s Carnival kickoff party and the 193rd anniversary of the Battle of New Orleans.

Doc Willard is right. New Orleans must remember Howard Johnson’s. First, the dead – and the surviving wounded – must not be forgotten, especially those who served the city.

Second, New Orleans is a city where the past is often prologue. For example, NOPD brass didn’t invoke the memory of Howard Johnson’s when informing the City Council of recent acquisitions, including two armored personnel carriers for SWAT team deployments and 100 assault rifles.

Not surprisingly, the NOPD drew criticism from activists representing Central City, a high-crime neighborhood, where complaints of over-policing and under-protection are not uncommon. “I’m afraid of you – especially with [assault rifles],” said Ursula Price of Safe Streets/Strong Communities.

Cops and activists of the Howard Johnson’s era can help ease tensions. Times and attitudes have changed since then.

For example, Larry Jones, a fiery activist in the St. Bernard housing project at the time, today expresses sorrow for the police families who lost their loved ones at Howard Johnson’s. Years after the tragedy Jones said, “I had a brother killed in a packed nightclub, shot in the back five times. Nobody wanted to come forward. That is the kind of stuff we have to work toward as a society.”

Conversely, some NOPD veterans of the shoot-out currently share activists’ concern over the post-9/11 “militarization” of American policing and the proliferation of high-powered weapons in the hands of drug gangs.

Missed anniversaries at the NOPD occur when the department is distressed, distracted or both. But Howard Johnson’s was a disaster for the entire city – not just police. It’s up to New Orleans’ elders to remind future generations of the continuing lessons of all our city’s tragedies – not just Katrina.

Doc Willard did his part.

A former principal at St. Augustine High, Willard proudly recalls that Alfred Harrell Jr. – one of the five NOPD officers killed at Howard Johnson’s – graduated from the Catholic school for black males. Harrell was a good student, gregarious, with “lots of personality,” Willard says.

Harrell graduated in 1971. He enrolled as a student at Loyola University while working as a police cadet.

On New Year’s Eve, 1972, Mark J. Essex staged a one-man ambush at Central Lock-Up, vividly retold in Peter Hernon’s book, A Terrible Thunder (Doubleday, 1978).

 Harrell, 19, was the first to die. A husband, father of a newborn son, and a nephew of famed chef Austin Leslie, the cadet stepped into the sally-port area of the jail. He was shot in the chest.     

Lt. Kenny Dupaquier knelt over Harrell and picked up his left hand to check for a pulse. The dying cadet’s wedding ring fell off into a pool of his own blood. In a small, but heroic gesture of compassion, Dupaquier “gently picked up the ring and slid it back on Harrell’s finger,” according to A Terrible Thunder.

“I just reacted,” Dupaquier recalled later. Today, he remembers Harrell for his enthusiastic approach to the college education he never lived to finish.

Harrell’s wife, Angele, later committed suicide. Their 9-month-old son, Alfred Harrell III, was adopted by the slain cadet’s twin brother. “Little Alfred” grew up to become a minister.

Looking up at the hotel, Willard also remembers Deputy Police Superintendent Louis Sirgo, who was killed leading an assault on the Howard Johnson’s sniper.

A white, 17-year veteran of the NOPD, Sirgo led the department’s battles with the Black Panthers in the early 1970s. But he insisted the most effective way to eliminate political extremism was to end the social conditions that nourished social discontent, such as housing and educational inequities. He also saw a “vindictive system” of crime and punishment at work. And he deplored public indifference to poverty, which he believed fueled urban crime.

“As citizens of the United States, we are guilty of malfeasance in office,” Sirgo told a group of civic leaders. He warned that police forces could not keep a lid on urban social ills for long.

After his death, The Washington Post published Sirgo’s address in its entirety. He was survived by his wife, Joyce and two daughters.

Each year, Mrs. Sirgo presents the Louis Sirgo Memorial Award to the top-graduating recruit of the NOPD academy.

The five officers killed at Howard Johnson’s are etched in several police memorials: Sirgo, Harrell, patrolmen Paul Persigo and Philip Coleman, and K-9 Sgt. Edwin Hosli.

The hotel is now a Holiday Inn.

In the parking lot, a historic sign (dedicated in 1996) notes that the downtown neighborhood is “one of the birthplaces of jazz.”

But there is no plaque for those who bled for the city, nothing to inspire the youths marching in the Martin Luther King Day parade to aspire to public service – and no reason to remember Howard Johnson’s.

[Cyber Liberty]

That is a truly sad story.  It sounds like Nagin and company reckoned themselves to be more important than the police.  The only way to have prevented the day of remembrance from being forgotten would have been to pass an ordinance, and apparently 20-something years wasn't enough time to get it done.  I wonder how much of that laxness was because the gunman was a black person in a "chocolate city," as Nagin called it.

Unfortunately, the stories of the NOPD tragic loss were overshadowed when that same police force disarmed everybody in the wake of Katrina, leaving thousands defenseless in the face of the looters.  People in that town aren't about to let the police do that to them again.

NOPD first got screwed by Nagin, then they did it to themselves after Katrina. 

[MACVSOG68]

I wish it was all about the gangs.  It's more than that.  They treat all citizens as the enemy, whether they're obviously gang or not.  They call us "little people," or civilians, which is a diminutive.  When in doubt, they push people against walls and cars.  They employ empty threats at the drop of a hat.  You can't even open your door to a cop without him jamming a foot in your door. 

"I didn't start this war."

Just curious.  When you refer to "they", about what percentage of police do you put into that category?  I don't have any issue with the term "civilians".  It's been used as long as I can remember, which is a hell of a lot of years.  I am a civilian w/r to the police...at least in my community.  I've been stopped on a number of occasions throughout my life, and never recall anything but courtesy.  Having said that I know others have had less than ideal interaction with various police, and I wouldn't begin to try to deny their experiences.  But just as I'll stand up to the left when they demonize all gunowners and Christians, so too will I question those who think all police are brutal, insensitive and uncivilized philistines.  I do think we all (including myself) at times tend to stereotype based on less than objective, anecdotal evidence.  But JMHO, of course.

[Cyber Liberty]

Just curious.  When you refer to "they", about what percentage of police do you put into that category?  I don't have any issue with the term "civilians".  It's been used as long as I can remember, which is a hell of a lot of years.  I am a civilian w/r to the police...at least in my community.  I've been stopped on a number of occasions throughout my life, and never recall anything but courtesy.  Having said that I know others have had less than ideal interaction with various police, and I wouldn't begin to try to deny their experiences.  But just as I'll stand up to the left when they demonize all gunowners and Christians, so too will I question those who think all police are brutal, insensitive and uncivilized philistines.  I do think we all (including myself) at times tend to stereotype based on less than objective, anecdotal evidence.  But JMHO, of course.

That's a very reasonable question, and I wish I had an answer.  "They" is a crappy pronoun that gets thrown about too easily (by me included).  My bad, I was a bit flippant.  I've been known to jokingly refer to "the 90% that make the 10% look bad," but of course I don't really think 90% are bad.  But I can give you a "working answer," the one I carry around with me in my everyday life, the one that serves me.

Considering how life-ruining just one altercation with a bad policeman can be, prudence demands I treat police officers as a non-joking, 100% bad.  I don't trust any.  I live in a big suburb of Phoenix, so we don't have that "small-town" feel that I had when I was younger.  We knew the police officers personally, went to school with a few of them.  That feeling is non-existent here, the police are all strangers to me.

I'm sure if I were back in my hometown, I would have a much different attitude about it.

[MACVSOG68]

That's a very reasonable question, and I wish I had an answer.  "They" is a crappy pronoun that gets thrown about too easily (by me included).  My bad, I was a bit flippant.  I've been known to jokingly refer to "the 90% that make the 10% look bad," but of course I don't really think 90% are bad.  But I can give you a "working answer," the one I carry around with me in my everyday life, the one that serves me.

Considering how life-ruining just one altercation with a bad policeman can be, prudence demands I treat police officers as a non-joking, 100% bad.  I don't trust any.  I live in a big suburb of Phoenix, so we don't have that "small-town" feel that I had when I was younger.  We knew the police officers personally, went to school with a few of them.  That feeling is non-existent here, the police are all strangers to me.

I'm sure if I were back in my hometown, I would have a much different attitude about it.

That's too bad Cyber.  I hope the Phoenix PD isn't all that bad.  But I don't live there, though I lived in Laveen for about a year back in the late 1940s.

[Cyber Liberty]

That's too bad Cyber.  I hope the Phoenix PD isn't all that bad.  But I don't live there, though I lived in Laveen for about a year back in the late 1940s.

Phoenix PD is having to be sued to release what they know about Holder's Fast and Furious guns that were used to kill Arizonans.

[Oceander]

That's a very reasonable question, and I wish I had an answer.  "They" is a crappy pronoun that gets thrown about too easily (by me included).  My bad, I was a bit flippant.  I've been known to jokingly refer to "the 90% that make the 10% look bad," but of course I don't really think 90% are bad.  But I can give you a "working answer," the one I carry around with me in my everyday life, the one that serves me.

Considering how life-ruining just one altercation with a bad policeman can be, prudence demands I treat police officers as a non-joking, 100% bad.  I don't trust any.  I live in a big suburb of Phoenix, so we don't have that "small-town" feel that I had when I was younger.  We knew the police officers personally, went to school with a few of them.  That feeling is non-existent here, the police are all strangers to me.

I'm sure if I were back in my hometown, I would have a much different attitude about it.

Unfortunately, that is the truth.  And it isn't because most cops are bad, it's because the few that are can be devastating and there is no way to know up front whether any given cop is good or bad.

It's like this:  Assume that the value of running into a good cop in an ambiguous situation is $250 - the fine you'll pay if you get a desk ticket for disorderly conduct - and the "value" of running into a bad cop in an ambiguous situation is $1,000,000 - the economic value of the damage you will suffer from a false arrest followed by conviction for a felony you didn't commit - and now assume that 99% of all cops are good and 1% are bad.  The weighted value of the 99% chance that you'll meet a good cop is 99% * $250 =  $247.5.  The weighted cost of the 1% chance that you'll meet a bad cop is 1% * $1,000,000 = $10,000.  Even if we assume that 99.9% of all cops are good and that only 0.1% of all cops are bad.  The weighted cost of meeting a good cop is $249.75, but the weighted cost of meeting a bad cop is $1,000, still about 4 times the cost of meeting a bad cop.

It simply makes rational sense to assume that every cop is a bad cop because, ex ante, you have no way of knowing if the cop you meet is good or bad.

That 99%, or even 99.9%, of cops who are good will simply have to understand that fact and have to take it into account as one more reality of the job.  It's not a matter of spite or hatred, it is a cold, rational decision based on fact.