Police Officer: Trust Me, Ferguson Changed Everything

[Cyber Liberty]

It simply makes rational sense to assume that every cop is a bad cop because, ex ante, you have no way of knowing if the cop you meet is good or bad.

That 99%, or even 99.9%, of cops who are good will simply have to understand that fact and have to take it into account as one more reality of the job.  It's not a matter of spite or hatred, it is a cold, rational decision based on fact.

Bingo.  Nailed it.

[MACVSOG68]

Oceander wrote:


It simply makes rational sense to assume that every cop is a bad cop because, ex ante, you have no way of knowing if the cop you meet is good or bad.

But would that make you act any differently in a traffic stop than if you assumed most cops are simply doing their job?

[Cyber Liberty]

But would that make you act any differently in a traffic stop than if you assumed most cops are simply doing their job?

You betcha.

Let me amplify:  My first question used to be, "What can I do for you, officer?"  Now it's, "Am I under arrest?"

[Cyber Liberty]

Unfortunately, that is the truth.  And it isn't because most cops are bad, it's because the few that are can be devastating and there is no way to know up front whether any given cop is good or bad.

It's like this:  Assume that the value of running into a good cop in an ambiguous situation is $250 - the fine you'll pay if you get a desk ticket for disorderly conduct - and the "value" of running into a bad cop in an ambiguous situation is $1,000,000 - the economic value of the damage you will suffer from a false arrest followed by conviction for a felony you didn't commit - and now assume that 99% of all cops are good and 1% are bad.  The weighted value of the 99% chance that you'll meet a good cop is 99% * $250 =  $247.5.  The weighted cost of the 1% chance that you'll meet a bad cop is 1% * $1,000,000 = $10,000.  Even if we assume that 99.9% of all cops are good and that only 0.1% of all cops are bad.  The weighted cost of meeting a good cop is $249.75, but the weighted cost of meeting a bad cop is $1,000, still about 4 times the cost of meeting a bad cop.

It simply makes rational sense to assume that every cop is a bad cop because, ex ante, you have no way of knowing if the cop you meet is good or bad.

That 99%, or even 99.9%, of cops who are good will simply have to understand that fact and have to take it into account as one more reality of the job.  It's not a matter of spite or hatred, it is a cold, rational decision based on fact.

Would you mind if I saved that and printed it out?  I have a coworker who doesn't understand why I don't trust any cops...any cops at all.

[MACVSOG68]

You betcha.

Let me amplify:  My first question used to be, "What can I do for you, officer?"  Now it's, "Am I under arrest?"

Huh.  Well, guess we all act according to our best judgments.  Not sure what your experiences were with them, but I would guess if it was a traffic stop, and it was a good cop, the cop would either ignore the question or tell you why he/she stopped you, and in either case ask for your license, registration and insurance.  If it turned out to be a "bad" cop, it probably wouldn't be a good question.   

[Fishrrman]

240b wrote above:
[[ Only a fool would want to 'coexist' with someone who openly wants to rape, rob, and kill you. It is not "racist" to be wary of a person who is dangerous. It is simple common sense. It is 'reality', not racism. ]]

Very well stated.

Actually, a more accurate term might be "racial realism", which is diametrically opposed to the notion of "multiculturalism" (which really means "all cultures but the white one").

There's nothing wrong with this. Indeed, it reflects reality.

I'm wondering if a growing number of America's black population regard whites, as do muslims regard Jews....?

[Cyber Liberty]

Huh.  Well, guess we all act according to our best judgments.  Not sure what your experiences were with them, but I would guess if it was a traffic stop, and it was a good cop, the cop would either ignore the question or tell you why he/she stopped you, and in either case ask for your license, registration and insurance.  If it turned out to be a "bad" cop, it probably wouldn't be a good question.   

It's the question my lawyer wants asked.  Ponder that.  Like I said, I didn't start this.

[Cyber Liberty]

Huh.  Well, guess we all act according to our best judgments.  Not sure what your experiences were with them, but I would guess if it was a traffic stop, and it was a good cop, the cop would either ignore the question or tell you why he/she stopped you, and in either case ask for your license, registration and insurance.  If it turned out to be a "bad" cop, it probably wouldn't be a good question.   

I told you the cop isn't the kid next door I grew up with.

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm wondering if a growing number of America's black population regard whites, as do muslims regard Jews....?

It's a lot worse than that.  Blacks thought that after Obama got elected, their lives would be completely turned around, they would be occupying the large houses and driving the large cars.  Obama didn't deliver, and now folks are out for payback.  They know they got screwed in the Obama economy, and they blame the whites for it.  Therefore, I expect to see problems.

Check this out.  Last night there was a big fight among "teens" at the AZ State Fair.  We rarely have race troubles here, and when we do it's in the barrios, so that's what I expected when I saw the story.  Nope.  All black. 

[MACVSOG68]

It's the question my lawyer wants asked.  Ponder that.  Like I said, I didn't start this.

Not sure what you meant by "I didn't start this", as the thread is about the police.  Anyway, I recall a couple of threads I was on over at TOS years ago about whether the police had any authority to prevent crime by profiling, and whether they could stop a car in which the driver flipped off the cop.  Interesting perspectives to say the least.

I know each of us has our suspicions and handles things in different ways.  For me though if I get stopped it might be for a minor infraction, which as has happened to me before, the cop tells me what I did and then lets me go.  If I antagonize him, he/she will likely end it with a ticket.  That doesn't make him a bad cop, just human like the rest of us.  But you're probably doing the right thing by listening to your attorney. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Not sure what you meant by "I didn't start this", as the thread is about the police.  Anyway, I recall a couple of threads I was on over at TOS years ago about whether the police had any authority to prevent crime by profiling, and whether they could stop a car in which the driver flipped off the cop.  Interesting perspectives to say the least.

I know each of us has our suspicions and handles things in different ways.  For me though if I get stopped it might be for a minor infraction, which as has happened to me before, the cop tells me what I did and then lets me go.  If I antagonize him, he/she will likely end it with a ticket.  That doesn't make him a bad cop, just human like the rest of us.  But you're probably doing the right thing by listening to your attorney.

I didn't start the police harassment of civilians and military attitude.  And, as it has been repeatedly explained to you on this thread, nobody cannot afford to take a police officer interaction lightly.  The only financially responsible thing for me to do is treat them all as potential adversaries.  Unless they are total idiots, they understand why.

I'm glad you have such a great relationship with your local officers, most of us don't have that luxury.  I didn't start this.

[MACVSOG68]

I didn't start the police harassment of civilians and military attitude.  And, as it has been repeatedly explained to you on this thread, nobody cannot afford to take a police officer interaction lightly.  The only financially responsible thing for me to do is treat them all as potential adversaries.  Unless they are total idiots, they understand why.

I'm glad you have such a great relationship with your local officers, most of us don't have that luxury.  I didn't start this.

I certainly appreciate all the education here, even if some of it is tainted with patronizing condescension. 

[Cyber Liberty]

I certainly appreciate all the education here, even if some of it is tainted with patronizing condescension.

Sorry 'bout that.  I learned it from somebody posting on the thread about gay marriage.

 

[MACVSOG68]

Sorry 'bout that.  I learned it from somebody posting on the thread about gay marriage.

 

Yeah...me too.

[Cyber Liberty]

 

Yeah...me too.

 

[MACVSOG68]