Author Topic: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine  (Read 7574 times)

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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2014, 07:58:31 pm »
Except for the Russian track record in shooting down civilian aircraft. Korean Flight 007 ring a bell?

Also... doing some cursory research into 'unofficial' viewpoints on the downing of KAL007 and Congressman Larry McDonald might be beneficial to understanding how the world really works...


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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2014, 08:23:48 pm »
Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan 2h

President Obama massively dropped the ball just now. 23 Americans killed and he says 'it looks like a terrible tragedy' then back to jokes?
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2014, 08:26:02 pm »
FOX News Radio ‏@foxnewsradio 2m

A Senior U.S. official confirms to FOX News a "Buk" missile brought down the Malaysian plane.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2014, 08:26:55 pm »
BREAKING NEWS:

FLIGHT MH17 HAD DIVERTED FROM ITS USUAL FLIGHT PATH. (CNN)
Another Malaysian plane crashes.

Families of the victims mourn.

CNN rejoices.
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2014, 08:33:20 pm »
jimgeraghty ‏@jimgeraghty 3m

Americans get shot out of the sky; hours later, the president is at a fundraiser, Biden is at the Netroots Nation conference.
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2014, 08:40:03 pm »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696344/What-shot-MH17-Soviet-built-BUK-surface-air-missile-launcher-believed-brought-Air-Malaysia-flight-33-000ft.html?ito=social-facebook

The Soviet-built BUK surface-to-air missile launcher believed to have brought down Malaysian Airline flight MH17 at 33,000ft
BUK surface-to-air launchers designed to engage aircraft and cruise missiles
Can easily take down a large plane up to an altitude of 75,000 feet
BUK launchers were first developed in the Soviet Union in the late 1970s
By JOHN HALL
PUBLISHED: 12:57 EST, 17 July 2014 | UPDATED: 13:44 EST, 17 July 2014




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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2014, 08:48:14 pm »
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)...at link
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2014, 09:46:04 pm »
SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)...at link

So now we should ask why the airliner was in that airspace when others were going around?  Saving gas or sent in hoping for a shoot-down?

Also, Malaysia Airlines *again*?  That's too coincidental.  Somethings up with that as well.


« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 09:54:19 pm by GourmetDan »
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2014, 10:14:19 pm »
Fox is reporting that this might have been an SA-20 missile, and that analysis of air traffic control tapes is underway to determine where the shot came from.

What is important to understand here, is no matter what, you cannot simply point an SA-11 or SA 20 SAM at a target, light the fuse like Wile E. Coyote, and just walk away while it launches.  These were guided missiles that are very sophisticated, guided by radar and telemetry to a target that has to be deliberately selected and designated as hostile before the missile will lock.  You cannot do anything with just a launch vehicle either, there is a separate command and control vehicle that is required to launch anything.

The point is, this was not just some rebel who got his hands on a single rocket or launcher vehicle.  This missile was launched with the efforts of more than one person, in multiple vehicles, and was guided to its target deliberately and directly by them. 

The picture I posted earlier shows three different vehicles that make up a troop.  I'm sure they can have multiple launcher vehicles if needed.  Think about the Israeli Iron Dome system.  It has multiple launchers on each site with a control vehicle for them all.

Speaking of Iron Dome....does anyone have a feeling for the time it takes the IDF to combat reload an Iron Dome battery??  Those kids must be drilled to a razor's edge, and the terrorist rockets have been fired in volleys deliberately trying to overwhelm ID....
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 10:15:36 pm by Chieftain »

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2014, 10:46:20 pm »
I just heard on Sean Hannity that today is the 18th anniversary of TWA 800 going down.  That's a weird coincidence.

As an aviation nut and a historian, I can say with certainty that it's nothing more than a coincidence.  Most dates have more than one plane crash, with only the year being different.
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2014, 10:51:20 pm »
The aircraft lost, 9M-MRD, was exactly 17 years old, having taken its first flight on 7-17-1997.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2014, 10:56:33 pm »
I just heard on Sean Hannity that today is the 18th anniversary of TWA 800 going down.  That's a weird coincidence.

Along with TWA800.

July 17, 2007: TAM Linhas Aereas’ flight 3054 overruns the runway while landing at Sao Paulo, Brazil; killing all 187 people on board.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2014, 11:07:38 pm »
Jennifer griffin is reporting on Fox, that the rebels were thought to have access to these SAMs several days ago, and this is the third plane they have shot down in the same area in the last few days, and now they are finally taking it seriously.

One way or another, these rebels got ahold of Russian weapons, and the company that makes BUK missiles was one of the firms that was sanctioned just yesterday.


Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2014, 11:13:30 pm »
This is what happens when there is a wuss in the White House.

As soon as one shows weakness, every bad guy in the world comes out of hiding.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Offline EC

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2014, 11:15:41 pm »
Speaking of Iron Dome....does anyone have a feeling for the time it takes the IDF to combat reload an Iron Dome battery??  Those kids must be drilled to a razor's edge, and the terrorist rockets have been fired in volleys deliberately trying to overwhelm ID....

Usually they have 5 batteries per unit. Use two, then rotate to the next pair while the first pair are being reloaded. The 5th is a reserve for any battery that gets down checked.

Each battery has it's own dedicated team. Fire control has three shifts who rotate on the hour - it keeps alertness at maximum.

Reload times are theoretically 90 minutes minimum, since it's not just loading ordinance but the launcher itself has to be inspected and checked. A good and well drilled team - and they all are - can do the turnaround in less than 20 minutes if they don't mind cutting the odd corner. I've seen them calmly checking the launcher itself while the thing is still firing. They joke about it, calling the inevitable burns a quick tan.  :laugh:

They take pride in their work. Each unit of the system has it's own name and the cabs are decorated inside with all sorts of odd things.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2014, 11:35:21 pm »
Usually they have 5 batteries per unit. Use two, then rotate to the next pair while the first pair are being reloaded. The 5th is a reserve for any battery that gets down checked.

Each battery has it's own dedicated team. Fire control has three shifts who rotate on the hour - it keeps alertness at maximum.

Reload times are theoretically 90 minutes minimum, since it's not just loading ordinance but the launcher itself has to be inspected and checked. A good and well drilled team - and they all are - can do the turnaround in less than 20 minutes if they don't mind cutting the odd corner. I've seen them calmly checking the launcher itself while the thing is still firing. They joke about it, calling the inevitable burns a quick tan.  :laugh:

They take pride in their work. Each unit of the system has it's own name and the cabs are decorated inside with all sorts of odd things.

Thanks!  I appreciate that insight...


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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2014, 11:39:53 pm »
It would not be the first time that American intelligence has strapped recon equipment on to a civilian aircraft(without the pilot knowing anything about it) and then route it over a sensitive area of interest.

This has happened in the past. Is that what this was all about. The Russians would have the equipment to detect any espionage. Who knows?

I am only saying that this stunt is not unheard of, and has been done before. Everyone is asking the same question. What was that aircraft doing there? Are they stupid? Did they not know the danger? All other aircraft were routed wide of that area.
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2014, 11:42:55 pm »
It would not be the first time that American intelligence has strapped recon equipment on to a civilian aircraft(without the pilot knowing anything about it) and then route it over a sensitive area of interest.

This has happened in the past. Is that what this was all about. The Russians would have the equipment to detect any espionage. Who knows?

I am only saying that this stunt is not unheard of, and has been done before. Everyone is asking the same question. What was that aircraft doing there? Are they stupid? Did they not know the danger? All other aircraft were routed wide of that area.

That is getting into tin foil hat land.  This is not the fault of the United States.

The route was known to be at risk, and many airlines have quit using it.  However, the aircraft was above the restricted altitude limit.
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2014, 11:44:56 pm »
Thanks!  I appreciate that insight...

 :beer:

No problem. I've flown resupply for the units a few times in the past while on secondment. Got the 10 cent tour, though wasn't allowed in fire control, obviously. While the base specifications are easy enough to find, the Israelis are inventive as hell at modifying and upgrading and like to keep those on the quiet side!  :laugh:

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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2014, 12:26:25 am »
As an aviation nut and a historian, I can say with certainty that it's nothing more than a coincidence.  Most dates have more than one plane crash, with only the year being different.

Let's narrow it down to planes that were shot down.  That's a little more weird of a coincidence, isn't it?
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2014, 12:32:57 am »
Let's narrow it down to planes that were shot down.  That's a little more weird of a coincidence, isn't it?

I do not, nor have I ever believed that TWA800 was shot down.  And I will not get into that blasted debate yet again.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2014, 01:13:04 am »
I do not, nor have I ever believed that TWA800 was shot down.  And I will not get into that blasted debate yet again.

I think differently, but I understand where you're coming from.   :beer:
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2014, 01:17:50 am »
From Chieftan's post #33:
[[ The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.[2] ]]

Just a thought, may not mean anything, but...

....How long until groups like ISIS get ahold of these things?

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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2014, 01:33:41 am »
From Chieftan's post #33:
[[ The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.[2] ]]

Just a thought, may not mean anything, but...


....How long until groups like ISIS get ahold of these things?

ISIS already has that and more. They even have uranium. However, it is like give an ape a rifle. They have everything they need to cause destruction worldwide, but they are primitive barbarians, and lack the intelligence to be able to do anything with it.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2014, 01:34:43 am »

Todd Starnes
25 mins ·
23 Americans may have been murdered -- blown out of the sky -- yet President Obama chose to crack jokes and eat a burger in Delaware and attend two fundraisers in New York City.
Folks -- wow. Just wow.
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