Author Topic: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns  (Read 11431 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #300 on: February 23, 2018, 02:23:06 pm »
No one's come to confiscate your cars. [sic] 

Another sunrise, another repetition of The Big Lie.

Except it is not a lie.   I can own as many cars as I want, fast ones, big ones, expensive ones.  They are all potentially dangerous,  so I am obliged to carry PIP.   The community demands I take responsibility for my choices.   That is perfectly reasonable.   
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #301 on: February 23, 2018, 02:28:37 pm »
Except it is not a lie.   I can own as many cars as I want, fast ones, big ones, expensive ones.  They are all potentially dangerous,  so I am obliged to carry PIP.   The community demands I take responsibility for my choices.   That is perfectly reasonable.

You keep pushing this lie. You are not required to carry that at all to own a car. A car is also not specifically protected by our constitution......you ignorant Left wing slut.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #302 on: February 23, 2018, 02:42:11 pm »
Guns are uniquely dangerous.  Their purpose is to kill.   

I can kill with a piece of string.
Every sort of trap is made to kill.
Poisons are made to kill.
There is nothing unique about guns... In fact, guns are far better than the above, because guns kill selectively, while all the rest (including the string) do not. Yet all of the above, are unlicensed, easily acquired, and largely unregulated.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #303 on: February 23, 2018, 02:42:32 pm »
You keep pushing this lie. You are not required to carry that at all to own a car. A car is also not specifically protected by our constitution......you ignorant Left wing slut.

You are required to insure a car used for its intended purpose - driving it on public roads.  The insurance requirement for guns would be similar.   Disable a firearm so it can't be fired and you wouldn't need to insure it. 

And I am advocating nothing that would violate the Constitution.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #304 on: February 23, 2018, 02:45:54 pm »
I can kill with a piece of string.
Every sort of trap is made to kill.
Poisons are made to kill.
There is nothing unique about guns... In fact, guns are far better than the above, because guns kill selectively, while all the rest (including the string) do not. Yet all of the above, are unlicensed, easily acquired, and largely unregulated.

Yet you claim their uniqueness under the Constitution.  You can't have it both ways.  Guns are killing devices, no more, no less.   Own as many as you want, take 'em to bed with you at night if that's what gives you wood.    All the community demands is that you use and transfer them responsibly,  and be legally liable for the harm they may cause - after all, they're in your care.   
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 02:47:20 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #305 on: February 23, 2018, 02:47:59 pm »
@LauraTXNM ,    Does anyone here really think that demanding such responsibility from gunowners is unreasonable?       

@Jazzhead

I think making victims of one crime responsible for the costs of a crime committed by someone else is unreasonable to the extreme.  If a kid steals my car and kills someone while running from police is the car owner held responsible?   

Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #306 on: February 23, 2018, 02:49:24 pm »
You are required to insure a car used for its intended purpose - driving it on public roads.  The insurance requirement for guns would be similar.   Disable a firearm so it can't be fired and you wouldn't need to insure it. 

And I am advocating nothing that would violate the Constitution.   

Bullshit. 

Know in advance, it does not matter what you and your anti-gun hordes manage to get passed as policy or "law". 

Responsible Gun owners who understand history are not going to comply.  We will refuse.

And if you and the agents of the state you empower come to impose your will upon us by force (that means using guns to put to our heads) you will have that war I told you that you are buying.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline INVAR

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #307 on: February 23, 2018, 02:53:43 pm »
All the community demands is that you use and transfer them responsibly,  and be legally liable for the harm they may cause - after all, they're in your care.

Take your commie community crap and shove it up your hinnie.

We do not care what the "community" of commie leftists like you demand.

Make gun owners outlaws, and we promise we will ACT like outlaws and live up to the charges.

We will refuse you and defy you.

You need to ask yourself how much blood you are willing to spill to make your suggestions a reality.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline skeeter

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #308 on: February 23, 2018, 02:56:24 pm »
Yet you claim their uniqueness under the Constitution.  You can't have it both ways.  Guns are killing devices, no more, no less.   Own as many as you want, take 'em to bed with you at night if that's what gives you wood.    All the community demands is that you use and transfer them responsibly,  and be legally liable for the harm they may cause - after all, they're in your care.

I promise I will be legally responsible for the harm I may cause. I  cannot force someone else to be legally responsible for the harm they may cause.

The gun does not cause harm. It just lies there.

Geez.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #309 on: February 23, 2018, 03:00:09 pm »
Yet you claim their uniqueness under the Constitution.  You can't have it both ways.  Guns are killing devices, no more, no less.   Own as many as you want, take 'em to bed with you at night if that's what gives you wood.    All the community demands is that you use and transfer them responsibly,  and be legally liable for the harm they may cause - after all, they're in your care.

@Jazzhead
No, the people who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights determined arms were unique and needed to be protected.

The 'community' isn't demanding anything except the right to defend themselves, a few radicals with a totalitarian agenda are flapping their gums using money from people like Soros.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #310 on: February 23, 2018, 03:04:56 pm »
You are required to insure a car used for its intended purpose - driving it on public roads.  The insurance requirement for guns would be similar.   Disable a firearm so it can't be fired and you wouldn't need to insure it. 

And I am advocating nothing that would violate the Constitution.   

What you are proposing is stupid just like all your other bullshit you post here you Commie Lib.

So this jackass who shot up the school has his gun insured before he starts killing kids. Is that going to make him think twice before he pulls the trigger because his premiums might go up? Am I going to have to pay higher premiums because law enforcement allowed this guy to go and shoot up a school?

Since your obtuse Kasich style Leftist mind keeps pushing this insurance bullshit, what am I getting in return for my gun ownership premiums? If some low level thinker like you backs into my car the insurance company pays for the damage to my car. What services am I getting for paying my gun premiums? If it is just to cover damages for other gun owners killing people then it isn't insurance. It's an effing TAX. 

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #311 on: February 23, 2018, 03:05:58 pm »
Yet you claim their uniqueness under the Constitution.  You can't have it both ways.

They are unique under the constitution, along with any other weapon. They are not unique in their availability and unlicensed status, nor their ability to kill. Many many things can kill, and many, many can do way more damage than a gun - even a full auto gun.  Propane as an instance - It would take nothing to create a murderous weapon out of a propane tank. Cheaper and more effective than a rifle could ever be.  Explosives and hideous poisons can be made from normal household chemicals.  Knives, bludgeons, even fists. Where does this chickenshit nonsense stop?


Quote
Guns are killing devices, no more, no less.   


So are many other things - That was my point.

Quote
Own as many as you want, take 'em to bed with you at night if that gives you wood.    All the community demands is that you use and transfer them responsibly,  and be legally liable for the harm they may cause - after all, they're in your care.

YOUR community can demand whatever it wants. You are IMPOSING your community upon mine. My community, and my county, and my state know what they want wrt this issue, and it ain't what you want at all.

I do use and transfer them responsibly, according to my community, county, and state.  And my only liability and responsibility is when MY finger is on the trigger.

You can take your federal nanny state bullshit and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #312 on: February 23, 2018, 03:09:36 pm »
@Jazzhead
No, the people who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights determined arms were unique and needed to be protected.

The 'community' isn't demanding anything except the right to defend themselves, a few radicals with a totalitarian agenda are flapping their gums using money from people like Soros.

Our resident anti-rights Leftist simply fears and does not trust you with liberty.

He fears your right to defend yourself.  He despises you operating your business according to your faith you do not cater to perverts.   He is offended when you exercise your right to speak or write what you think.

This is why he continually wants to empower the government to *reasonably regulate* what privileges he will allow the government to allow you and only after you follow prescribed government license requirements before you are permitted to exercise your rights.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline edpc

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #313 on: February 23, 2018, 03:26:58 pm »
You are required to insure a car used for its intended purpose - driving it on public roads.  The insurance requirement for guns would be similar.   Disable a firearm so it can't be fired and you wouldn't need to insure it. 

And I am advocating nothing that would violate the Constitution.   


The 2A says you have the right to bear arms.  That can be a wide variety of items, including the bow and arrow, knives, swords, etc...

Should those require insurance, as well?
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #314 on: February 23, 2018, 04:16:48 pm »

The 2A says you have the right to bear arms.  That can be a wide variety of items, including the bow and arrow, knives, swords, etc...

Should those require insurance, as well?

Not in my view.  The problem with guns is partly that so many hundreds of millions of them are out there,  with many changing ownership by "underground" means.   A system of registration and insurance would, just as it does with cars, ensure that serial numbers are associated with legally-responsible owners, and that transfers and dispositions are documented and take place lawfully.   

Your statement is intriguing, though.  I've assumed that arms mean firearms.   But if arms are more broadly defined, that suggests that a single category of "arms" could be banned entirely and still not infringe on the right.   Could guns be banned because folks can always use swords to defend themselves?   Obviously that makes little sense in the context of the collective right of defense associated with the  "well-regulated militia", but what about in terms of the natural, individual right to self-defense (the one I believe exists, like the right to privacy,  in the "penumbras and emanations" of the Constitution but not in the Second Amendment)?   

Obviously, Justice Scalia would disagree.   Heller involved an effective ban on handguns,  and Scalia's concern was that one's natural right to defend person, home and property simply couldn't be effectively exercised without the ability to use a concealable handgun.   Knives, swords and baseball bats signed by MLB stars are not effective substitutes. 

I don't think the Second Amendment is of much practical utility to the average gunowner - I don't think it is the source of his Constitutional right.   I think the Constitution's protection of the natural rights of man - as acknowledged, finally, after two centuries by the SCOTUS - is the source of the right, and creates the limits by which government can restrict and regulate the right.   
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:19:44 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #315 on: February 23, 2018, 04:25:57 pm »
Quote
I don't think the Second Amendment is of much practical utility to the average gunowner - I don't think it is the source of his Constitutional right. 

I'm sensing a recurring theme here. 


Quote
I think the Constitution's protection of the natural rights of man - as acknowledged, finally, after two centuries by the SCOTUS - is the source of the right, and creates the limits by which government can restrict and regulate the right.   

20,000 laws already on the books regulating the rights granted to us under the 2nd Amendment.

How about we enforce the ones on the books before we start down the garden path towards confiscation and subversion of the 2A that you are so cheerfully advocating?

Why would that be so difficult?

What is one more ineffective law actually going to accomplish?
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #316 on: February 23, 2018, 04:34:13 pm »
What is one more ineffective law actually going to accomplish?

It will make him *feel* safer, and he will know he is one step closer to confiscation and the eradication of a people to have arms to defend themselves against people like him.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #317 on: February 23, 2018, 04:36:44 pm »
Not in my view.  The problem with guns is partly that so many hundreds of millions of them are out there,  with many changing ownership by "underground" means. 


The very same could be said of knives, and way more people are killed and injured with knives than with guns. 

Quote
Your statement is intriguing, though.  I've assumed that arms mean firearms.   But if arms are more broadly defined, that suggests that a single category of "arms" could be banned entirely and still not infringe on the right.   Could guns be banned because folks can always use swords to defend themselves?   Obviously that makes little sense in the context of the collective right of defense associated with the  "well-regulated militia", but what about in terms of the natural, individual right to self-defense (the one I believe exists, like the right to privacy,  in the "penumbras and emanations" of the Constitution but not in the Second Amendment)? 

NONSENSE. The primary cause of the 2nd is to counteract the formation of the standing army - The formation thereof driving the creation of the Bill of Rights, as the Federalist Papers plainly disclose. A 'well armed militia' in that day was citizen soldiers bearing their own firearms - Therein the inherent individual right of the citizen for self defense: No personally owned weapons, no militia - As distinguished from federal armies.

The last active citizen militia movement was not so long ago at the Bundy Ranch - Do you think those cowboys would have been able to stand off the Fed with swords? The entire idea is ridiculous.

Quote
I don't think the Second Amendment is of much practical utility to the average gunowner - I don't think it is the source of his Constitutional right.   I think the Constitution's protection of the natural rights of man - as acknowledged, finally, after two centuries by the SCOTUS - is the source of the right, and creates the limits by which government can restrict and regulate the right.   

The two are intertwined within the 2nd. Both standing militias AND citizen owned firearms with self defense implied... Scalia didn't change that.   'Well regulated' means 'well trained and equipped'. And YES, governmental restriction and regulation are exactly enumerated in the phrase 'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED'.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:40:01 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline INVAR

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #318 on: February 23, 2018, 04:47:52 pm »
The problem with guns is partly that so many hundreds of millions of them are out there,  with many changing ownership by "underground" means.

GOOD.

The more out there that you and your nanny-state behemoth-burgeoning-tyranny do not know about - the better for us and those who want to keep people like you in check. 

A system of registration and insurance would, just as it does with cars, ensure that serial numbers are associated with legally-responsible owners, and that transfers and dispositions are documented and take place lawfully.   

We are not going to comply with any more infringements or "laws" you and your behemoth nanny-state make and pass.  Not when your government is demonstrably corrupt and lawless itself.

But if arms are more broadly defined, that suggests that a single category of "arms" could be banned entirely and still not infringe on the right.   

And again you demonstrate there is absolutely no limit to which the perverted minds of tyranny advocates will devise 'legal' ways to impose their tyranny.

I think the Constitution's protection of the natural rights of man - as acknowledged, finally, after two centuries by the SCOTUS - is the source of the right, and creates the limits by which government can restrict and regulate the right.   
Utter and unmitigated BULLSHIT.  The source of the right come from God and Nature's God and in no wise grants government any authority or power to regulate that right into a government-granted privilege, which is what you advocate.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #319 on: February 23, 2018, 05:43:42 pm »

And if you and the agents of the state you empower come to impose your will upon us by force (that means using guns to put to our heads) you will have that war I told you that you are buying.

You know,  the federal agents you gleefully promise to murder have wives and kids just like you do, and are only doing their job.

And the laws they are obliged to enforce are promulgated not by a tyranny,  but by the elected representatives of the people in a Constitutional Republic.   

But you promise to murder them anyway,  because this isn't the g-ddamn democratic republic of INVAR.   

You routinely label me a communist and the agent of the Devil.   I seek only to better this nation within the lawful confines of the Constitution, and engage with folks like the (mostly) good people of this Board about the issues of the day.     You, on the other hand, think you are above the Constitution and the people, and that your guns make you a law unto yourself.   But keep on preaching your hate and violence -  if you think you're painting an attractive picture of the lawful gun-owner,  then think again.   

I fully agree with John Podhoretz who wrote this morning that those who are seeking ways to reduce gun violence do themselves a disservice when by their rhetoric they suggest that gun owners are moral monsters.   Gun owners are by and large good people,  who sincerely believe they need guns to protect their homes and families,  or even just enjoy the shooting sports.   But some gun owners ARE monsters,  and you are a violence-obsessed textbook example of one. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 05:46:04 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Frank Cannon

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:13:21 pm by Mod1 »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #321 on: February 23, 2018, 06:04:25 pm »
Quote
The problem with guns is partly that so many hundreds of millions of them are out there,  with many changing ownership by "underground" means.

More liberal talking point BS with nothing to substantiate the neferaious "underground claim".
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:04:45 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #322 on: February 23, 2018, 06:09:12 pm »
You know,  the federal agents you gleefully promise to murder have wives and kids just like you do, and are only doing their job.

Weren't you warned about this type of crap by the Mods yesterday?

Guess some.people have to learn the hard way I guess.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline aligncare

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #323 on: February 23, 2018, 06:09:38 pm »
@Jazzhead

I have no interest in joining this intractable argument and since I wish to keep myself out of the fray, I won’t state my position on it. But, I do think your views probably represent the middle ground on this issue.

After the Parkland shooting, Left and Right are at each other’s throats. I haven’t seen it this vociferous in many years. But that not where this argument will be settled. The vast middle will settle it, depending which side can persuade moderates that their argument is the most sensible, consistent with the second amendment.

And finally, kudos for holding firm to your POV despite being vastly outnumbered. I applaud you for your courage under fire.... :beer:

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Obnoxious, ignorant teens now demand curbs on guns
« Reply #324 on: February 23, 2018, 06:14:30 pm »
@Jazzhead

I have no interest in joining this intractable argument and since I wish to keep myself out of the fray, I won’t state my position on it. But, I do think your views probably represent the middle ground on this issue.

After the Parkland shooting, Left and Right are at each other’s throats. I haven’t seen it this vociferous in many years. But that not where this argument will be settled. The vast middle will settle it, depending which side can persuade moderates that their argument is the most sensible, consistent with the second amendment.

And finally, kudos for holding firm to your POV despite being vastly outnumbered. I applaud you for your courage under fire.... :beer:

For someone who didn't want to insert themselves into the discussion and state their view on the issue you sure did a great job of doing both.  *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!