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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 06:21 am »
The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
The Cover-Up Allegations Are Real. So Is the Cover-Up of the Cover-Up.

The Last Wire

For years, the central question was straightforward: where did COVID-19 come from?

A lab accident, zoonotic spillover, or something still unresolved.

But the conversation has shifted.

In 2026, the origins debate is no longer just a scientific dispute. It has become a broader argument about institutional trust, government transparency, intelligence assessments, and how societies process uncertainty after a global crisis.

Despite multiple investigations and years of political pressure, no single narrative has fully settled the question. Instead, the debate itself has expanded—moving from virology into politics, public confidence, and accountability.

This piece looks at how that shift happened, and why the virus is no longer the only story being argued.

Read on at The Last Wire



At this point, is the debate still about science—or about trust in the institutions that interpret it?
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #1 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 10:52 am »
It's the coverup, but leftist press is doing its usual "it's old news" routine when it's something they want to stay covered up.  We saw a lot of this starting with Bill Clinton in the 1990's.
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #2 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 10:55 am »
It's the coverup, but leftist press is doing its usual "it's old news" routine when it's something they want to stay covered up.  We saw a lot of this starting with Bill Clinton in the 1990's.

The MSM is, and long has been, public enemy #1.
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #3 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 10:59 am »
The MSM is, and long has been, public enemy #1.

The tactic was unused during Jimmy Carter's days.  I doubt it would have saved him in the face of the Reagan juggernaut.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 07:49 pm »
Origin:

All the denial in the world doesn't change facts.

Published in Nature: (note the date)

    Letter
    Published: 09 November 2015

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
Links:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf (downloadable)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 Web page that gives information on authors (click on author's name)

Note the Authors, and that among them, Xing-Yi Ge is from
Quote
Xing-Yi Ge, Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China
and

 Zhengli-Li Shi
Quote
Zhengli-Li Shi, Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China


From the Abstract:

Quote
Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

SHCO14 is the spike protein that binds readily with the ACE II receptor, the very mechanism SARS-CoV-2 uses to infect humans.

From the description of the lab created chimera virus, the mechanism of infection and the effects, as well as known resistance to known antivirals (in 2015) are profoundly similar to (if not identical to) SARS-CoV-2.

My conclusion is that at least the early forms of the virus that came to be known as COVID-19 were made in a lab in Chapel Hill, North Carolina in 2014 or 2015.

When the Obama Administration banned Gain of Function research in the US, the samples were shipped to China with two of the research team for further research.

You don't even need a crayon to connect those dots.

The question that does arise is one of whether the 'lab leak' was intentional. The timing certainly makes it suspect: just in time to wreck Trump's shining economy, to provide a basis for ballot counting and casting in unprecedented fashion and numbers (perhaps accounting for the millions of votes that outshone Obama's totals, and have never been seen again in vote totals, (especially in concert with some really hinky episodes surrounding the treatment and results of ballot counts in five states which suspended counting nearly simultaneously with statistically improbable changes in vote percentages by morning).
Despite claims otherwise, no case challenging that election or any part of it was lost on the merits of the case, rather the courts universally dodged the issue by refusing to grant plaintiffs standing in the matter, and refusing to hear the cases. No evidence, no Discovery, no testimony, no facts were ever considered in a court of law.

Note, that when COVID 'broke out' in China, expatriate Chinese workers continued to be flown out of Hubei Province to anywhere in the World--EXCEPT another part of China.
Note, too, that HCQ and Ivermectin were known anti-parasitic drugs, but more had yet to be discovered about their use against COVID (as ionophores for Zinc), and, in the case of Ivermectin, what appears to be remarkable anticancer properties as well.

Therefore, neither had been considered in the initial assessment of the original virus, nor had the actions of Zinc, interfering with viral replication, even though the research done in 2005 had shown zinc to be effective in vitro and in vivo at stopping replication of the original SARS virus. A later paper on this:
Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176

The leftist press routinely attacked potential (off the shelf) treatments for COVID, attacking not only those who were proponents, but burying any positive results. The push was for shots, not for a cure.

When Trump mentioned Sunlight, the media attacked. Yet, there is this:
Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood: “The Cure That Time Forgot”?

Michael R. Hamblin Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114, USA Hamblin@helix.mgh.harvard.edu

Adv Exp Med Biol. 2017 ; 996: 295–309. doi:10.1007/978-3-319-56017-5_25
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/pdf/nihms-986489.pdf


Yes, Virginia, there was something to that--but not as the TDS press presented it.

And then there was the whole thing about drinking/mainlining bleach (not!--more TDS!), wrapped around the idea that a common disinfectant just might be efficacious:

But rather, the idea that nebulized H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide solution--at 3%) would attack pathogens in the lungs, and leave the viable tissue alone.
Hydrogen Peroxide: Inhaling Disinfectant for Coronavirus Treatment?

https://www.hollywoodlanews.com/hydrogen-peroxide-disinfectant-coronavirus-treatment/

But these were ridiculed and never given any consideration, simply because these treatments were made to sound ridiculous through hyperbole and ridicule of the person who mentioned them.

Needless to say the HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc and IVM/Doxycycline/Zinc protocols were viciously attacked. Just stfu and get your shots. Or lose your job, or your ability to travel, and it was even suggested that those who refused be rounded up and put in concentration camps, because, somehow, they posed an existential threat to the VACCINATED.

Fear is a remarkable tool, and it was used to the utmost. Doctors who disagreed with the narrative were maligned, denied admitting privileges, and basically drummed out of the profession (or at least practice connected with hospitals). Other medical staff were sent packing: 700 at Mayo, 153 at Houston Methodist, 238 in New Jersey, not to mention the thousands of transit, other healthcare, and active duty armed services members who were discharged because they refused shots which turned out to be of questionable efficacy, and increasingly, appear to have had a relatively high percentage of individuals injured by the shots.

But this is getting off topic, the question is one of what lengths those involved will go to to preserve a failing and largely debunked narrative of a zoonotic virus that occurred naturally and just happened to travel the world from a seafood market in the midst of hysteria that conveniently enabled the 2020 election to be stolen.

Now, I'll put my Crayolas away and quit connecting dots, but the people who made bank and benefited are not our friends. The Devil himself may do the odd good seeming deeds for optics, but if you dig deep the rank smell of corruption will rise quickly.
And those 'news' outlets and shows that led the way pimping panic and decrying anything contrary to the narrative? Well those which haven't fallen by the wayside are still in short, snyde segments punctuated by pharmaceutical ads...


How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #5 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 10:33 pm »
...

Now, I'll put my Crayolas away and quit connecting dots, but the people who made bank and benefited are not our friends. The Devil himself may do the odd good seeming deeds for optics, but if you dig deep the rank smell of corruption will rise quickly.
And those 'news' outlets and shows that led the way pimping panic and decrying anything contrary to the narrative? Well those which haven't fallen by the wayside are still in short, snyde segments punctuated by pharmaceutical ads...

You’re mixing several different categories of information and treating them as if they all point to a single conclusion. The 2015 Nature Medicine paper is real, but it does not describe SARS-CoV-2 or demonstrate its creation. It studies bat coronavirus spike proteins in a SARS backbone, which is part of a broader and long-running field of coronavirus research.

ACE2 receptor usage is not unique to SARS-CoV-2 and cannot be used as evidence of identity or engineering. It is a common pathway in this virus family.

On treatment claims, early laboratory or theoretical interest in compounds like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin does not equal proven clinical effectiveness. Large, controlled trials during the pandemic did not support them as effective COVID treatments, which is why they were not adopted as standards of care.

Claims about intentional release, election timing, or coordinated suppression would require direct evidence of intent and coordination. None is currently established in credible scientific or investigative findings.

There are legitimate debates about lab safety, research practices, and pandemic preparedness. But those debates are weakened, not strengthened, by combining them with political conclusions or unsupported causal claims.

If we want to understand origins or policy failures clearly, we need to separate what is demonstrated in evidence from what is being inferred beyond it.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, Jun 25, 2026 11:29 pm »
You’re mixing several different categories of information and treating them as if they all point to a single conclusion. The 2015 Nature Medicine paper is real, but it does not describe SARS-CoV-2 or demonstrate its creation. It studies bat coronavirus spike proteins in a SARS backbone, which is part of a broader and long-running field of coronavirus research.

ACE2 receptor usage is not unique to SARS-CoV-2 and cannot be used as evidence of identity or engineering. It is a common pathway in this virus family.

On treatment claims, early laboratory or theoretical interest in compounds like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin does not equal proven clinical effectiveness. Large, controlled trials during the pandemic did not support them as effective COVID treatments, which is why they were not adopted as standards of care.

Claims about intentional release, election timing, or coordinated suppression would require direct evidence of intent and coordination. None is currently established in credible scientific or investigative findings.

There are legitimate debates about lab safety, research practices, and pandemic preparedness. But those debates are weakened, not strengthened, by combining them with political conclusions or unsupported causal claims.

If we want to understand origins or policy failures clearly, we need to separate what is demonstrated in evidence from what is being inferred beyond it.
With all due respect, RTFA.

The virus created was made by grafting the bat coronavirus spike protein found in SARS-COV-2 into SARS (also found in SARS Cov-2. The attack on epithelial airway cells and type 1 pneumocytes is characteristic of SARS CoV-2.
Antiviral resistance, ditto.

If it infects like COVID, has the Characteristics of COVID, reproduces like COVID (once it was created in the lab) it just might be COVID or an early form thereof.

It would not have existed but for the efforts of those wonderful scientists.

Show me where I am wrong. Provide links, and not to ABCNNBCBS, but journal articles.

I am only guilty of trying to summarize tons of research in a few paragraphs, and packing several subjects into one post.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #7 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:18 am »
With all due respect, RTFA.

The virus created was made by grafting the bat coronavirus spike protein found in SARS-COV-2 into SARS (also found in SARS Cov-2. The attack on epithelial airway cells and type 1 pneumocytes is characteristic of SARS CoV-2.
Antiviral resistance, ditto.

If it infects like COVID, has the Characteristics of COVID, reproduces like COVID (once it was created in the lab) it just might be COVID or an early form thereof.

It would not have existed but for the efforts of those wonderful scientists.

Show me where I am wrong. Provide links, and not to ABCNNBCBS, but journal articles.

I am only guilty of trying to summarize tons of research in a few paragraphs, and packing several subjects into one post.

Ok.

And there you have it folks.

The mystery is solved. .
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #8 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:29 am »
With all due respect, RTFA.

The virus created was made by grafting the bat coronavirus spike protein found in SARS-COV-2 into SARS (also found in SARS Cov-2. The attack on epithelial airway cells and type 1 pneumocytes is characteristic of SARS CoV-2.
Antiviral resistance, ditto.

If it infects like COVID, has the Characteristics of COVID, reproduces like COVID (once it was created in the lab) it just might be COVID or an early form thereof.

It would not have existed but for the efforts of those wonderful scientists.

Show me where I am wrong. Provide links, and not to ABCNNBCBS, but journal articles.

I am only guilty of trying to summarize tons of research in a few paragraphs, and packing several subjects into one post.

Research notes for reference (primary source breakdown)
Menachery et al., Nature Medicine (2015)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985



Posting this as clean source notes for clarity, since the thread is mixing claims about what the paper actually did.

1. What was actually constructed

* The paper describes a chimeric coronavirus
* Spike protein used: SHC014 (bat coronavirus)
* Backbone: mouse-adapted SARS-CoV (MA15)
* This is explicitly a laboratory construct, not a naturally circulating virus

Source:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Important context:

* SARS-CoV-2 is not involved in this study
* The virus did not exist in the literature at the time (2015)



2. Key experimental finding

* The engineered virus replicated efficiently in primary human airway epithelial cells
* It also showed pathogenicity in mouse models

Source:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

This is the core result often referenced in later gain-of-function debates:
→ bat SARS-like spike + SARS backbone can yield human-infecting behavior in vitro.



3. What the authors themselves concluded

* They frame the work as evidence of zoonotic risk from circulating bat SARS-like coronaviruses
* Explicit conclusion:

“Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.”

Source:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985



4. Common over-extensions of the paper (not supported by text)

Not supported by the study itself:

* That this virus was SARS-CoV-2
* That it was an “early form of COVID”
* That phenotypic similarity (airway tropism, ACE2 usage, etc.) establishes identity or lineage

These are interpretive leaps beyond the genetic data presented in the paper.



5. Bottom line from the primary literature

* The study demonstrates functional engineering of a SARS-like bat coronavirus spike into a SARS backbone
* It demonstrates human airway cell infectivity in vitro
* It does NOT establish any relationship to SARS-CoV-2



Keeping this here as source-grounded reference for anyone reviewing the thread rather than relying on paraphrasing or downstream commentary.
« Last Edit: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:34 am by Luis Gonzalez »
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

Online Bigun

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #9 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:38 am »
Ok.

And there you have it folks.

The mystery is solved. .

@Smokin Joe and a few others around here had this figured out a LONG time ago. Anyone who wants to dig through my posts from that era will find me saying that COVID was a biological attack by China to aid and abet Democrats politically and I stand by that to this day.
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #10 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:45 am »
The virus' nearest genetic relatives in nature can be found in Yunnan and Laos ... yet, SARS2-Covid made its Fall, 2019, debut in Wuhan China - home to (2) Chinese Commuist Party biolabs - as a mystery pneumonia.  What are the chances?

   *hmmmm*

That's akin to a Manatee Influenza outbreak originating in Massachusetts.  Yes, it could happen in nature, but with an extremely low probability in nature.  But, if there were (2) biolabs researching Manatee Influenza gain-of-function in Mass, the probability of a chimeric origin in Mass increases.




« Last Edit: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:52 am by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #11 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 06:55 am »
The article I wrote and posted is about the cover up of the cover up.

Maybe, we could discuss the article.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #12 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:11 am »
Maybe, we could discuss the article.

That would be too easy....

I think it's very important to discuss the multiple layers of cover up, because the costs of these were incredibly high, in terms of economics and politics!  The economy took a hit in excess of a Trillion bucks, and saddled the country with a President incapable of tying his own shoes. 

I think we'll eventually recover, but the job can be made a lot more difficult along the way....
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #13 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:17 am »
That would be too easy....

I think it's very important to discuss the multiple layers of cover up, because the costs of these were incredibly high, in terms of economics and politics!  The economy took a hit in excess of a Trillion bucks, and saddled the country with a President incapable of tying his own shoes. 

I think we'll eventually recover, but the job can be made a lot more difficult along the way....

 :yowsa: It is extremely important for us to know exactly what was and is being covered up and by whom.

I see the discussion on this thread as adding to Luis's piece rather than detracting from it.

Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #14 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:26 am »
:yowsa: It is extremely important for us to know exactly what was and is being covered up and by whom.

I see the discussion on this thread as adding to Luis's piece rather than detracting from it.


The first step is to recognize the press and the government are not our friends, they are hand in glove and are the enemy!
I don’t owe tolerance to people who disagree with my existence.
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #15 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:29 am »
The first step is to recognize the press and the government are not our friends, they are hand in glove and are the enemy!

Oh! HELL yes! No doubt about that!
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #16 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:38 am »
I loved it when health officials were telling us that Covid-19/SARS2 was not an airborne disease.  If we sprayed our grocery bags and counters with Lysol, we would be safe.

It didn't help that health officials were talking out their asses to the media about something they knew nothing about.

The WHO and CDC lost credibility from the outset.

The media lost credibility because they parroted false information and Government talking points.

Mainstream science lost credibility when they bought into the Chinese Communist Party line that Covid-19/SARS2 was natural, and not chimeric, in origin.

The Government Crisis Management lost credibility when they failed to acknowledge the threat to veterans homes and assisted care facilities.

President Trump's Operation Warp Speed allowed the US to emerge from Covid-19/SARS2 quicker and better than other countries, but Government vaccine mandates turned a solution into a political revolt.

Shutting down the economy destroyed livelihoods and businesses, and became another political distraction to a healthcare crisis.

The lessons-learned from the 1918 Spanish Influenza Epidemic were lost to history and sat on a shelf.

Why should I blindly trust any institution without verification and corroboration from independent sources?  Institutions are political bureaucracies who have taken it upon themselves to re-engineer society to better fit their way of thinking without the consent of those effected by their policies.
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #17 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:52 am »
Why should I blindly trust any institution without verification and corroboration from independent sources?  Institutions are political bureaucracies who have taken it upon themselves to re-engineer society to better fit their way of thinking without the consent of those effected by their policies.

That's the largest change of all!  Institutions violated the public trust, and as a result they no longer have any credibility.  They did us more good than we could have ever done for ourselves! 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #18 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 07:57 am »
:yowsa: It is extremely important for us to know exactly what was and is being covered up and by whom.

I see the discussion on this thread as adding to Luis's piece rather than detracting from it.


We will never know the exact story behind the virus, but the story behind the coverup is glaring.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #19 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 08:25 am »
We will never know the exact story behind the virus, but the story behind the coverup is glaring.

The release of that information was the last, and may possibly be, Tulsi's most important contribution! People must be made to understand the length, breadth and reach of the damage done by the COVID hoax!  And that project must begin by naming (and punishing) the "Who."
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #20 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 08:41 am »
What I remember most, is watching CNBC and hearing mulitple businessmen reporting, in October/November 2019, that a mysterious new pneumonia was circulating in Wuhan, which has a substantial economic development zone.

In Autumn, 2019, Chinese officials had an opportunity to contain the nascent Covid-19/SARS2 outbreak, but, through a combination of corruption and incompetence, Chinese and WHO officials failed to get a handle on the situation in time to stop a pandemic.

As Covid-19/SARS2 spread, so did the coverups of incompetent and corrupt officials in positions of leadership.

Andrew Cuomo's fall from grace is another example of never letting a good crisis go to waste, but it came back to bite him in the @$$.  His love of publicity led him to publish a book proclaiming his success at managing the Covid-19/SARS2 crisis as it was getting worse.  It was perfect meme fodder.

Cuomo was more interested in self-embellishment to fuel his future political ambitions than in serving the public.  To make it worse, in an obvious conflict-of-interest, CNN allowed Chris "Don't Call Me Fredo" Cuomo to make the media compicit in Andrew Cuomo's leadership fraud.

The mainstream media's lack of integrity and journalistic competence led to more people trusting Internet Memes than traditional media.





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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #21 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 08:46 am »
What I remember most, is watching CNBC and hearing mulitple businessmen reporting, in October/November 2019, that a mysterious new pneumonia was circulating in Wuhan, which has a substantial economic development zone.

In Autumn, 2019, Chinese officials had an opportunity to contain the nascent Covid-19/SARS2 outbreak, but, through a combination of corruption and incompetence, Chinese and WHO officials failed to get a handle on the situation in time to stop a pandemic.

As Covid-19/SARS2 spread, so did the coverups of incompetent and corrupt officials in positions of leadership.

Andrew Cuomo's fall from grace is another example of never letting a good crisis go to waste, but it came back to bite him in the @$$.  His love of publicity led him to publish a book proclaiming his success at managing the Covid-19/SARS2 crisis as it was getting worse.  It was perfect meme fodder.

Cuomo was more interested in self-embellishment to fuel his future political ambitions than in serving the public.  To make it worse, in an obvious conflict-of-interest, CNN allowed Chris "Don't Call Me Fredo" Cuomo to make the media compicit in Andrew Cuomo's leadership fraud.

The mainstream media's lack of integrity and journalistic competence led to more people trusting Internet Memes than traditional media.







Largely forgotten little tidbit is that China stopped ALL internal travel from Wuhan but allowed international flights to continue as nothing had happened. THAT writes the whole book for me.
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #22 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 08:57 am »
The coverups spread with the virus because those in power did not admit the limits of their power to control the spread.

Once they lost control of the spread, officials would not accept that the virus had more power than they did. 

A lack of humility and honesty in dealing with a more powerful force, led to officials losing integrity and trust as the virus spread and the health care system started to collapse.

Got ventilators?
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #23 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 09:11 am »
The coverups spread with the virus because those in power did not admit the limits of their power to control the spread.

Once they lost control of the spread, officials would not accept that the virus had more power than they did. 

A lack of humility and honesty in dealing with a more powerful force, led to officials losing integrity and trust as the virus spread and the health care system started to collapse.

Got ventilators?

Or we could all go off down the deepest of rabbit holes and consider the possibility that the virus was created to introduce the vaccine.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #24 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 09:15 am »
Or we could all go off down the deepest of rabbit holes and consider the possibility that the virus was created to introduce the vaccine.

Now that would be ridiculous!  That'd be like Bill Gates creating computer viruses in order to sell anti-virus software!

...oh, wait....
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #25 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 09:38 am »
The reason there was a relative rapid turnaround of vaccines was that NIH and others were already working on vaccines for other Bat Beta Corona Viruses, like SARS1 and MERS.

What made Covid-19/SARS2 "novel" was its addition of Furin protein that allowed it to attach to ACE2 receptors.

In nature, Bat Beta Corona Virus lacked the Furin protein.  It was the presence/addition/re-combination with the Furin protein that contributed to suspicions that Covid-19/SARS2 was of chimeric origin.

It was the Furin protein that necessitated the fable about Covid-19/SARS2 jumping from pangolins to humans.  Pangolin Beta Carona Viruses had a Furin protein, but were too genetically distinct from Covid-19/SARS2 to be a direct source.  Thus, the theory of a Bat Beta Corona Virus and a Pangolin Beta Corona Virus recombining into Covid-19/SARS2 at a "wet" market was born.

The Chi-coms made the Pangolin into their Fall Guy.  They have never difinitively proven the zoonotic origin of Covid-19/SARS2.  That knowledge gap leaves room for theories of chimeric origin to still linger.
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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #26 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 01:38 pm »
We will never know the exact story behind the virus, but the story behind the coverup is glaring.
Actually, the connection between Chapel Hill and Wuhan is simple.

The links to the paper in Nature, again (because I do like to give the sources).
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf (downloadable .PDF)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 Web page that gives information on authors (click on author's name)

Note the Authors, and that among them, Xing-Yi Ge is from
Quote
Xing-Yi Ge Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China
and
Quote
Zhengli-Li Shi Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China

These were two of the researchers on the team that created the chimera virus from the spike protein from a bat virus and SARS.

The trail isn't hard to follow, if you look, and I looked.

Note, please, Nature isn't some wild eyed conspiracy theory publication, it's mainstream science. WIkipedia describes it thus:
Quote
Nature
Journal
Nature is a British weekly international scientific journal publishing peer-reviewed research across the natural sciences, including biology, physics, chemistry, the earth sciences, and related interdisciplinary fields.

Not some bush league stuff, and the researchers were laying claim to bragging rights for having made the disease in a lab by splicing it together. In their bubble, it wasn't a bad thing.

But all too often, things that aren't bad are used by bad people for 'fun' and profit.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The COVID Origins Debate Is No Longer About the Virus
« Reply #27 on: Friday, Jun 26, 2026 05:09 pm »
Actually, the connection between Chapel Hill and Wuhan is simple.

The links to the paper in Nature, again (because I do like to give the sources).
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf (downloadable .PDF)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 Web page that gives information on authors (click on author's name)

Note the Authors, and that among them, Xing-Yi Ge is from and
These were two of the researchers on the team that created the chimera virus from the spike protein from a bat virus and SARS.

The trail isn't hard to follow, if you look, and I looked.

Note, please, Nature isn't some wild eyed conspiracy theory publication, it's mainstream science. WIkipedia describes it thus:
Not some bush league stuff, and the researchers were laying claim to bragging rights for having made the disease in a lab by splicing it together. In their bubble, it wasn't a bad thing.

But all too often, things that aren't bad are used by bad people for 'fun' and profit.

Hear me.

The day I decide to write an article about the source of Covid, we will chat.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy