Author Topic: The Trump Summer Jobs Stall. Most businesses have stopped new hiring as tariffs add costs and uncert  (Read 3757 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Timber Rattler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,737
  • Conservative Purist and Patriot
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/august-jobs-report-hiring-donald-trump-tariffs-federal-reserve-23606e84

Quote
President Trump fired the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner last month because he didn’t like the monthly jobs numbers. He claimed the numbers were “rigged.” But Friday’s monthly report for August confirms that job creation has stalled amid his tariff barrage.

Employers added a mere 22,000 jobs last month while the numbers were revised down for the previous two by a combined 21,000. This means only 107,000 new jobs were created in the last four months—an average of 27,000. Monthly job gains averaged 167,000 last year.

Nearly all of the new jobs last month were in social assistance and healthcare (46,800), which rely on government spending. Industries with high tariff exposure shed workers, including manufacturing (-12,000) and wholesale trade (-11,700). Transportation equipment manufacturing lost 14,500, and manufacturing jobs overall this year have declined by 38,000. That tariff golden age is still over the horizon.

The Occam’s razor explanation is the uncertainty and additional costs from Mr. Trump’s border taxes. Caterpillar estimates that tariffs will cost the equipment maker $1.8 billion this year. Deere projects a tariff hit of about $600 million, mainly from higher steel and aluminum costs. Deere is also hurting because soybean farmers have seen their market share in China shrink after its trade retaliation. Tariffs are slamming U.S. auto makers like Ford ($2 billion tariff cost this year).

Jobs in mining also notably declined last month by 6,000. Oil and gas producers say the tariffs have increased prices for materials and caused them to pull back on drilling. Construction job growth has stalled since January and fell last month by 7,000, likely owing to the President’s immigration crackdown and higher building costs from tariffs.

EXCERPT

Trump's tariff's are starting to bite.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,057
  • Gender: Male
We conservatives are not surprised. We’ve argued with a few here  that this was going to  happen with Trump‘s chaotic tariff policy and now we’re being proven right in spades. The only jobs that the economy is really creating is in healthcare. We are losing manufacturing jobs despite the promise of a manufacturing renaissance from these tariffs.

Those of us doubters  were even told we would be eating crow by September. Well, it’s September and I’m getting hungry. Dollar dropping. Gold rising. Prices rising. Jobs declining.

It’s so bad that Trump is now been reduced to claiming that the economy won’t really takeoff until 2027 after insisting that we’re the “hottest” economy. Of course that goes with his claim of 60-70% job approval rating.

Paul Begala’s prediction of 40 seats in the House  for Democrats next year may be under shooting it.


And watching the excuses from this administration and it supporters for this economy would be laughable if it didn’t cause harm to people


I have noticed in the last few months that the tariff cheerleaders have been awfully quiet here.


Now the blame game starts. Powell has been blamed. Biden has been blamed. It wouldn’t surprise me that the end of this the American people will be blamed for not recognizing Donald Trump’s genius, and therefore we must suffer. He stopped at blaming businesses during his first term
« Last Edit: September 07, 2025, 07:19:36 am by LMAO »

Offline Timber Rattler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,737
  • Conservative Purist and Patriot
We conservatives are not surprised. We’ve argued with a few here  that this was going to  happen with Trump‘s chaotic tariff policy and now we’re being proven right in spades. The only jobs that the economy is really creating is in healthcare. We are losing manufacturing jobs despite the promise of a manufacturing renaissance from these tariffs.

Those of us doubters  were even told we would be eating crow by September. Well, it’s September and I’m getting hungry. Dollar dropping. Gold rising. Prices rising. Jobs declining.

It’s so bad that Trump is now been reduced to claiming that the economy won’t really takeoff until 2027 after insisting that we’re the “hottest” economy. Of course that goes with his claim of 60-70% job approval rating.

Paul Begala’s prediction of 40 seats in the House  for Democrats next year may be under shooting it.


And watching the excuses from this administration and it supporters for this economy would be laughable if it didn’t cause harm to people


I have noticed in the last few months that the tariff cheerleaders have been awfully quiet here.

Now the blame game starts. Powell has been blamed. Biden has been blamed. It wouldn’t surprise me that the end of this the American people will be blamed for not recognizing Donald Trump’s genius, and therefore we must suffer. He stopped at blaming businesses during his first term

Indeed so.  And now I'm seeing people blaming Biden, or arguing that Trump's only been in office for 7 months, so give him a break!

Ugh, no, but as usual, the buck never stops with Trump, or reaches him, as he always suggests.

My wife owns and operates a novelty store, and her Danish, Canadian, and UK suppliers have all but cut her off because of the tariffs and Trump's bullying.  I wonder how many other small businesses out there have been similarly affected?
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,921
  • Gender: Male
  • Nonpartisan hack
    • Fullervision
You have any better plans to put people to work? Lower tariffs, they'll outsource. Raise tariffs, they just won't hire. Are we at the point where we have to start sending goons to the decision makers' homes?
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2025

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,320
You have any better plans to put people to work? Lower tariffs, they'll outsource. Raise tariffs, they just won't hire. Are we at the point where we have to start sending goons to the decision makers' homes?

It ain't like that. The sources are offshore. All of em. It ain't like people can choose to buy American and build American, because there ain't any here.  Industry cannot just pop up in a few months. It takes years. So people are forced to pay the tariff. and that inevitably will slow things down, one way or the other.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,307
You have any better plans to put people to work?

GET GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY !!!  STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE !!!  STOP STEALING WEALTH FROM THE REST OF US WITH THE PRINTING OF NEW MONEY !!!  IMPLEMENT A FLAT TAX, AND REDUCE FEDERAL SPENDING BELOW 18% OF GDP !!!

You want jobs?  You want double-digit growth?  This is how.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,921
  • Gender: Male
  • Nonpartisan hack
    • Fullervision
GET GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY !!!  STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE !!!  STOP STEALING WEALTH FROM THE REST OF US WITH THE PRINTING OF NEW MONEY !!!  IMPLEMENT A FLAT TAX, AND REDUCE FEDERAL SPENDING BELOW 18% OF GDP !!!

You want jobs?  You want double-digit growth?  This is how.
I said BETTER plans. That's a great plan if you want NEGATIVE double-digit growth. All those trillions in printed money spending are being pumped up into the economy and propping up the growth numbers. None of that forces the multibillionaires who control everything we say and do to share the stockpiles of wealth they already have.

You know what I want? A steady income that affords me a modest house, a wife and a child I can raise in peace. Most of that's out of reach to me and too many others.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2025

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,921
  • Gender: Male
  • Nonpartisan hack
    • Fullervision
It ain't like that. The sources are offshore. All of em. It ain't like people can choose to buy American and build American, because there ain't any here.  Industry cannot just pop up in a few months. It takes years. So people are forced to pay the tariff. and that inevitably will slow things down, one way or the other.
Then we are no longer a free country. Why don't we have onshore sources for our necessities? What do we have to do to get them? It's a must if we are going to call ourselves a sovereign nation but can't rely on ourselves for survival.

You might as well hang the American flag upside down because a country that cannot care for itself is no country at all.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2025

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,320
Then we are no longer a free country. Why don't we have onshore sources for our necessities? What do we have to do to get them? It's a must if we are going to call ourselves a sovereign nation but can't rely on ourselves for survival.

You might as well hang the American flag upside down because a country that cannot care for itself is no country at all.

That may well be true - But the current plan does nothing to fix it. Nothing. Noticing that we don't make things here anymore is TRUE, and that it needs to be fixed is TRUE. But that flat ain't gonna happen in four short years. It will take movement across decades to fix it.

That's why the populist superhero will do next to nothing. What will fix it is a pissed off Congress with it's head turned toward it's power.

What will fix it is iron-fisted control over this fiat money system, burning off the extra money that's been printed a little at a time, in what will be a long term down market as it burns off... The other option is to keep going the way we are until the whole damn thing crashes.

What will fix it is deregulation and incentive, honoring those who make things, and paving the way toward the risks that makers are willing to take... And away from protecting the worker. If there is not risk, there is not profit. If there is no profit, there are no jobs. You can't keep beating makers like a 2 dollar mule.

And more than anything, that means small government, and smaller government, and even yet smaller government until it is affordable.

ALL that needs to be drilled into generations of our children if any fix will apply. Generations need to vote Conservatively,and reject Liberalism. Or all is already lost.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2025, 10:54:27 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,731
That may well be true - But the current plan does nothing to fix it. Nothing. Noticing that we don't make things here anymore is TRUE, and that it needs to be fixed is TRUE. But that flat ain't gonna happen in four short years. It will take movement across decades to fix it.

That's why the populist superhero will do next to nothing. What will fix it is a pissed off Congress with it's head turned toward it's power.

What will fix it is iron-fisted control over this fiat money system, burning off the extra money that's been printed a little at a time, in what will be a long term down market as it burns off... The other option is to keep going the way we are until the whole damn thing crashes.

What will fix it is deregulation and incentive, honoring those who make things, and paving the way toward the risks that makers are willing to take... And away from protecting the worker. If there is not risk, there is not profit. If there is no profit, there are no jobs. You can't keep beating makers like a 2 dollar mule.

And more than anything, that means small government, and smaller government, and even yet smaller government until it is affordable.

ALL that needs to be drilled into generations of our children if any fix will apply. Generations need to vote Conservatively,and reject Liberalism. Or all is already lost.

There are too many votes for sell to ever return to sanity.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,320
There are too many votes for sell to ever return to sanity.

Probably true. I expect we'll have to learn the hard way. It's coming.
But, OTOH, always hope. Things can turn around on a dime. I'd be happy to see us heading directly away from the cliff before I die.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,307
I said BETTER plans. That's a great plan if you want NEGATIVE double-digit growth. All those trillions in printed money spending are being pumped up into the economy and propping up the growth numbers.

Uh, no.  That's not at all how economics works.  Those dollars do nothing but fund government, and government creates zero wealth.  Keynesian economic theory had been proven wrong even before it was written.  With almost a century of failure, it shock me to see people like yourself still embracing it.  Government spending does not create economic prosperity.  Instead, it deprives wealth creators of investment capital.

Want a real world example?  Look at Argentina.  Their growth rate is now higher than ours, all because they reduced government spending.


None of that forces the multibillionaires who control everything we say and do to share the stockpiles of wealth they already have.

Sounds like something one would find posted on DU.  Here's a newsflash for you.  How did a billionaire like Elon Musk get his money?  He created it.  He is a wealth creator.  The pie grows.  Tens of thousands of people now have jobs because Elon did such a phenomenal job of creating wealth.

Contrast that with government.  Government creates no wealth.  It only confiscates wealth from others, either through taxation, or even worse by printing money which steals value from those holding it.


You know what I want? A steady income that affords me a modest house, a wife and a child I can raise in peace. Most of that's out of reach to me and too many others.

Do you know why it is out of reach?  Your money keeps losing value because government keeps printing more of it.  Economic growth has fallen far behind the devaluation of the dollar.  In 2011, the median home price was $240k (2025 dollars).  Today, it is $430k.  Your ability to purchase that house has fallen by 45% because government has stolen $25 trillion in wealth through the printing of the money over the last fifteen years.  And that $25 trillion that they stole generated zero wealth.  Zip.  Nada.  That's a $25 trillion drain on the US economy, plus all the growth that figure could have generated.  THAT is why you can't afford a house.  It's not some billionaire's fault.  It is your own government that did it to you.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/august-jobs-report-hiring-donald-trump-tariffs-federal-reserve-23606e84

EXCERPT

Trump's tariff's are starting to bite.
Ridiculous.  Tariffs will lessen jobs in foreign lands, not here.

What is starting to bite is the jobs the illegals have been doing are drying up as the crackdown happens.

And let's not forget this lunacy by California https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=555332.msg3150364#msg3150364
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,057
  • Gender: Male
Ridiculous.  Tariffs will lessen jobs in foreign lands, not here.

What is starting to bite is the jobs the illegals have been doing are drying up as the crackdown happens.

And let's not forget this lunacy by California https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=555332.msg3150364#msg3150364

Lol!!!

Nonsense

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,731
Ridiculous.  Tariffs will lessen jobs in foreign lands, not here.

What is starting to bite is the jobs the illegals have been doing are drying up as the crackdown happens.

And let's not forget this lunacy by California https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=555332.msg3150364#msg3150364

Wrong. It slows down economic activity here and abroad. Less activity, fewer jobs.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,808
  • Gender: Male
Uncertainty paralyzes business expansion / re-investment / hiring plans.

This is also the time of year when companies start budget planning for Calendar Year 2026.

My organization is zero-level funding for 2026.  This is essentially a budget cut because of inflation.


"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

Offline cato potatoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,833
  • Gender: Male
My wife owns and operates a novelty store, and her Danish, Canadian, and UK suppliers have all but cut her off because of the tariffs and Trump's bullying.  I wonder how many other small businesses out there have been similarly affected?

The tariffs were overbroad and somewhat insulting to our most important trade partners.  Countries who lowered their trade barriers after careful negotiations were accused of "ripping us off."  I doubt anyone here would like to buy a substantial amount of products or services from a country which behaved erratically.   

We aren't in a depression, but all of this was unnecessary, and it is going to empower the wrong people.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
Wrong. It slows down economic activity here and abroad. Less activity, fewer jobs.
Slows down importers for sure.

What about manufacturing jobs here as consolidation takes place in the next few years making things here rather than in a Chinses sweatshop? 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2025, 11:13:34 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
There's also this, which points to new efficiencies in industries that grow in spite of a loss of jobs required.

These 8 Texas counties drove the bulk of U.S. oil growth, report shows

By Rachel Nostrant,Staff Writer-Houston Chronicle        Sep 4, 2025

Production from across the ten counties accounted for 37 percent of the country's total oil production.

Eight Texas counties within the Permian Basin helped account for 93% of the country’s oil output growth over the last four years, according to a new report from the Energy Information Administration.

The report, released Tuesday, showed that between 2020 and 2024, 10 counties in the Permian Basin were responsible for a 1.9 million-barrel-per-day increase in U.S. crude oil and lease condensate production, a light hydrocarbon.

After two New Mexico counties, Martin and Midland counties in Texas added about 400,000 barrels a day, while six other Texas counties — Andrews, Glasscock, Howard, Loving, Reagan and Ward — contributed about 360,000 barrels a day, according to Enverus data.

By comparison, production growth from across the rest of the country, including offshore operations in state and federal waters, totaled 130,000 barrels a day.

Together, the 10 counties accounted for nearly 40% of total U.S. crude oil and lease condensate production.

Production growth across the Permian comes as employment numbers have stagnated, and in some recent cases dropped, and as shale producers face increased costs associated with drilling.

"We are, through mid-year 2025, producing record volumes of crude oil and natural gas in Texas, with fully 1/3 fewer direct upstream oil and gas employees in Texas compared to the industry peak in 2014," said Karr Ingham, president of the Alliance of Texas Energy Producers. "That is an otherworldly achievement in terms of efficiency and productivity growth, and in many respects releases those resources to other endeavors."

In total, production from these 10 counties accounted for almost 40% of the country’s total crude oil and lease condensate output.

Between June and July, about 3,000 upstream workers in Texas lost their jobs, according to the latest data from the Texas Workforce Commission.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/permian-basin-texas-counties-us-oil-growth-21028590.php
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,731
Slows down importers for sure.

What about manufacturing jobs here as consolidation takes place in the next few years making things here rather than in a Chinses sweatshop?

Key words, "few years". Trump has a year at most before the midterms. Production doesn't turn on a dime.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,808
  • Gender: Male
The missing piece is the deregulation, capital investment tax reform, laws necessary to encourage long-term capitial investment in the US.

If it takes me 9 years to build a facility from inception to completion, I need guarantees that the next Administration or the other Party isn't going to stop me mid-stream, like what happened with serveral energy pipelines such as Keystone XL.

The greatest guarantees I have from the Government are enshrined in Laws - not Executive Action, Rules, Regulations, Policies, and other things obstructionist bureaucrats and judges pull out their @$$e$ to stop large infrastructure projects.

I need what I am doing to be legal at inception and still legal upon completion, without volatile Government regulatory and judicial interruptions in between.

America has been closed for business since 2008.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2025, 02:01:46 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,731
The missing piece is the deregulation, capital investment tax reform, laws necessary to encourage long-term capitial investment in the US.

If it takes me 9 years to build a facility from inception to completion, I need guarantees that the next Administration or the other Party isn't going to stop me mid-stream, like what happened with serveral energy pipelines such as Keystone XL.

The greatest guarantees I have from the Government are enshrined in Laws - not Executive Action, Rules, Regulations, Policies, and other things obstructionist bureaucrats and judges pull out their @$$e$ to stop large infrastructure projects.

I need what I am doing to be legal at inception and still legal upon completion, without volatile Government regulatory and judicial interruptions in between.

America has been closed for business since 2008.

Very much agree.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,621
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
The missing piece is the deregulation, capital investment tax reform, laws necessary to encourage long-term capitial investment in the US.

If it takes me 9 years to build a facility from inception to completion, I need guarantees that the next Administration or the other Party isn't going to stop me mid-stream, like what happened with serveral energy pipelines such as Keystone XL.

The greatest guarantees I have from the Government are enshrined in Laws - not Executive Action, Rules, Regulations, Policies, and other things obstructionist bureaucrats and judges pull out their @$$e$ to stop large infrastructure projects.

I need what I am doing to be legal at inception and still legal upon completion, without volatile Government regulatory and judicial interruptions in between.

America has been closed for business since 2008.

Get rid of the Marxist income tax and repace with a point of retail sale only sales tax. Done!

http://fairtax.org
« Last Edit: September 10, 2025, 04:37:38 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,510
Huge problem is housing too. Add up people's costs right now, from highest to lowest. Housing will be far in front of everything else. Lowering people's housing costs would go far in helping the middle class. Get government out of the way.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,808
  • Gender: Male
Who's preventing the construction of more housing?  Da Gubmint  22222frying pan

Huge problem is housing too. Add up people's costs right now, from highest to lowest. Housing will be far in front of everything else. Lowering people's housing costs would go far in helping the middle class. Get government out of the way.
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,921
  • Gender: Male
  • Nonpartisan hack
    • Fullervision
Uh, no.  That's not at all how economics works.  Those dollars do nothing but fund government, and government creates zero wealth.  Keynesian economic theory had been proven wrong even before it was written.  With almost a century of failure, it shock me to see people like yourself still embracing it.  Government spending does not create economic prosperity.  Instead, it deprives wealth creators of investment capital.
Huh.


Sounds like something one would find posted on DU.  Here's a newsflash for you.  How did a billionaire like Elon Musk get his money?  He created it.  He is a wealth creator.  The pie grows.  Tens of thousands of people now have jobs because Elon did such a phenomenal job of creating wealth.
Tell that to the thousands of people he fired when he showed up at Twitter. And to answer your question, how do billionaires make their money? Seed money, connections and luck. That's it. There are thousands of people in this country with better ideas than them but don't have a daddy with an apartheid-era emerald mine.

Contrast that with government.  Government creates no wealth.  It only confiscates wealth from others, either through taxation, or even worse by printing money which steals value from those holding it.
What is wealth?

Do you know why it is out of reach?  Your money keeps losing value because government keeps printing more of it.  Economic growth has fallen far behind the devaluation of the dollar.  In 2011, the median home price was $240k (2025 dollars).  Today, it is $430k.  Your ability to purchase that house has fallen by 45% because government has stolen $25 trillion in wealth through the printing of the money over the last fifteen years.  And that $25 trillion that they stole generated zero wealth.  Zip.  Nada.  That's a $25 trillion drain on the US economy, plus all the growth that figure could have generated.  THAT is why you can't afford a house.  It's not some billionaire's fault.  It is your own government that did it to you.
And guess who's not losing wealth? The billionaires and hedge fund brokers who have access to the resources to gobble up housing for rentals.

Our government's wealth management has created one of the most perverse systems imaginable, one that claims to be "progressive" but punishes those who are honestly trying to work their way up in the world, while doing everything in its power to ensure those already at the top stay there. We tax sweat of the brow, but not unrealized gains. We tax income, but not wealth. When we do tax wealth, it's usually in the form of the roof over a person's head by way of property tax. Our tax code rewards the lazy and punishes the industrious.

You are half-right in that the U.S. dollar is not an accurate measure of wealth, but that is the standard by which we measure it. And right now, pretty much all of our securities are in a huge bubble, largely untaxed. Your idea would pop that bubble. There's no way you're going to grow or create wealth in that kind of situation. And if history is any indication, without force to keep the already wealthy in line, those "wealth creators" as you put it will just send their resources overseas where it's cheaper.

The vast majority of our overspending goes to transfer payments, which go right to the elderly, who promptly return it back to those rich companies in exchange for staying alive.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2025

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,316
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
There's also this, which points to new efficiencies in industries that grow in spite of a loss of jobs required.

These 8 Texas counties drove the bulk of U.S. oil growth, report shows

By Rachel Nostrant,Staff Writer-Houston Chronicle        Sep 4, 2025

Production from across the ten counties accounted for 37 percent of the country's total oil production.

Eight Texas counties within the Permian Basin helped account for 93% of the country’s oil output growth over the last four years, according to a new report from the Energy Information Administration.

The report, released Tuesday, showed that between 2020 and 2024, 10 counties in the Permian Basin were responsible for a 1.9 million-barrel-per-day increase in U.S. crude oil and lease condensate production, a light hydrocarbon.

After two New Mexico counties, Martin and Midland counties in Texas added about 400,000 barrels a day, while six other Texas counties — Andrews, Glasscock, Howard, Loving, Reagan and Ward — contributed about 360,000 barrels a day, according to Enverus data.

By comparison, production growth from across the rest of the country, including offshore operations in state and federal waters, totaled 130,000 barrels a day.

Together, the 10 counties accounted for nearly 40% of total U.S. crude oil and lease condensate production.

Production growth across the Permian comes as employment numbers have stagnated, and in some recent cases dropped, and as shale producers face increased costs associated with drilling.

"We are, through mid-year 2025, producing record volumes of crude oil and natural gas in Texas, with fully 1/3 fewer direct upstream oil and gas employees in Texas compared to the industry peak in 2014," said Karr Ingham, president of the Alliance of Texas Energy Producers. "That is an otherworldly achievement in terms of efficiency and productivity growth, and in many respects releases those resources to other endeavors."

In total, production from these 10 counties accounted for almost 40% of the country’s total crude oil and lease condensate output.

Between June and July, about 3,000 upstream workers in Texas lost their jobs, according to the latest data from the Texas Workforce Commission.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/permian-basin-texas-counties-us-oil-growth-21028590.php
One thing the upstream part of the industry is ever seeking is a way to get the job done faster, more efficiently, and cheaper. As exploration shifts to development in any play, the number pf people needed to get the job done shrinks, the ability to drill faster and deeper increases, and more well bore gets drilled for less. We have seen it in North Dakota as the Bakken /Three Forks play has shifted to development and infill drilling. What had a two man crew on location is done now for three wells remotely. Four out of six people eliminated from their former positions as the same requirements are met more cheaply.

That is the way of the world, especially with oil hovering around $60, and it will be the way of the future.

If you do it once, they will expect it every time.

As for the rest, summer is over, at least at this latitude, so summer jobs aren't going to pick up until Spring.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,808
  • Gender: Male
The official religion of America is commerce.

The Federal Government was constituted by merchants to facilitate interstate and international commerce.

Government can be either an impediment to, or a facilitator, of commerce.  That is for the Governed to decide at the ballot box.

The current issue is that we have too much Government that is impeding commerce, GDP growth, and wealth creation.
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,307
Huh.

I see you've never taken an economics class.


Tell that to the thousands of people he fired when he showed up at Twitter.

Tesla employs 28 times more people than Twitter lost.  Paypal employs 5 times more people than Twitter lost.  And SpaceX and OpenAI combined employ over 3 times more.  You should be applauding him if you really gave a damn about people working.  But your class envy overrides any compassion you have for your fellow man.


And to answer your question, how do billionaires make their money? Seed money, connections and luck. That's it.

I see you've never taken a business class either.


There are thousands of people in this country with better ideas than them but don't have a daddy with an apartheid-era emerald mine.

lol.  The emerald mine.  I see you tossed in the 'apartheid' word implying that the mine was in South Africa.  It wasn't.  Nor did the pre-teen boy Elon derive any benefit from it.  But hey, if you can come up with any evidence that Elon got "seed money" from his daddy, then please post it.  But you'll likely end up blaming Musk's takeover of Twitter for your inability to back up your fictitious claim.  But thanks for showing your hand by regurgitating Robert Reich lies.  Did you know him while working for the Clinton Administration?


What is wealth?

See my first response above.


And guess who's not losing wealth? The billionaires and hedge fund brokers who have access to the resources to gobble up housing for rentals.

Billionaires lose wealth all the time.  Look how many billions Elon lost buying Twitter.  Not sure how much rental housing he owns.  But that shouldn't stop you from taking on a second job and saving up for a house.  It is not any billionaire's fault that you lack the drive to purchase a house.  Stop blaming others for your own choices and take some accountability for yourself.    Stop lying to yourself and making false excuses.  Let that class envy go.


Our government's wealth management has created one of the most perverse systems imaginable, one that claims to be "progressive" but punishes those who are honestly trying to work their way up in the world, while doing everything in its power to ensure those already at the top stay there.

Give me one example where government creates wealth.  Just one.


We tax sweat of the brow, but not unrealized gains. We tax income, but not wealth. When we do tax wealth, it's usually in the form of the roof over a person's head by way of property tax. Our tax code rewards the lazy and punishes the industrious.

So you're going all-in on the class envy schtick.  Someone else has wealth (because they took risks and put in 100-hr work weeks for years (like Musk) while you were too afraid to take those same risks or unwilling to put in those same hours.  So for some obscene reason, you feel entitled to some of their wealth.



You are half-right in that the U.S. dollar is not an accurate measure of wealth, but that is the standard by which we measure it. And right now, pretty much all of our securities are in a huge bubble

What "securities" are you referring to?


Your idea would pop that bubble. There's no way you're going to grow or create wealth in that kind of situation.

Your ignorance of economics is staggering.  Elon Musk has had no problem growing and creating wealth.  Your problem is that you think it's the government that creates wealth.  It doesn't.  Government only consumes it.  And by printing up money, it is consuming yours by stealing value from every dollar you earn.  And it is doing so without having to tax you.  Yet you cheer it on?  You are working against your own self-interest here, all for satisfying some emotional need to stick it to those billionaires (which you aren't even doing).


And if history is any indication, without force to keep the already wealthy in line, those "wealth creators" as you put it will just send their resources overseas where it's cheaper.

That's really beautiful and all, but it DOESN'T HAVE A DAMN THING TO DO WITH ANYTHING I HAVE SAID OR PROPOSED.  You are completely clueless.  You have zero understanding of what you just stated.  Sure, it may have sounded good to you.  You may even have gotten some sort of emotional rise when you typed it.  But it has no connection to deficit spending and monetary expansion.  None.


The vast majority of our overspending goes to transfer payments, which go right to the elderly, who promptly return it back to those rich companies in exchange for staying alive.

Spoken like a true Democrat pouring gasoline onto the class-envy fire.  Are you aware that 30% of Social Security payments go to people below retirement age?  So your "majority of overspending" claim is pure unadulterated bullshit.  You are wallowing now.  Just parroting whatever phrases and clauses you pulled from DailyKos or DU posts thinking it made you look smart.  It doesn't.

Think of it this way.  Let's say there's a table full of groceries.  You have $100.  You are the only buyer.  When you show up to buy groceries, you make an exchange.  All the groceries for all the money.  You pay your $100.  You get all the groceries.  This is how a balanced budget works.

But government comes along, prints up $40 out of thin air, and gives those dollars to someone else.  Next month when you show up at the grocery store, you bring your $100 expecting to buy all the groceries.   Except this time, someone else is there with $40 more.  The grocer again takes all the money ($140) for all the groceries.  Except you end up with only 71% of those groceries while the other guy takes 29%.  So you now have to come up with another $40 to end up with the same amount.

THIS is why you can't afford a house.  Yet instead of being pissed at government for doing this to you, all you want to do is have a class-envy pity party blaming Elon Musk, and then advocate more of the same from Big Brother.  You are a fool.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,510
Who's preventing the construction of more housing?  Da Gubmint  22222frying pan

Absolutely! 100% agreement!

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
One thing the upstream part of the industry is ever seeking is a way to get the job done faster, more efficiently, and cheaper. As exploration shifts to development in any play, the number pf people needed to get the job done shrinks, the ability to drill faster and deeper increases, and more well bore gets drilled for less. We have seen it in North Dakota as the Bakken /Three Forks play has shifted to development and infill drilling. What had a two man crew on location is done now for three wells remotely. Four out of six people eliminated from their former positions as the same requirements are met more cheaply.

That is the way of the world, especially with oil hovering around $60, and it will be the way of the future.

If you do it once, they will expect it every time.

As for the rest, summer is over, at least at this latitude, so summer jobs aren't going to pick up until Spring.
absolutely amazes me how few people are now required to run a drilling rig.

And an EOG friend told me they just drilled a 14,000 ft lateral in only 2 days.

Incredible. @Smokin Joe
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,731
Technology marches on...

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,316
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
absolutely amazes me how few people are now required to run a drilling rig.

And an EOG friend told me they just drilled a 14,000 ft lateral in only 2 days.

Incredible. @Smokin Joe
Typical spud to TD up here, 21000 ft. total depth, about 10000 ft. of lateral (1280 acre spacing), with surface and intermediate casing runs is about 11 days. Usually takes 5 different bottom hole assemblies. Fastest day I have seen in the lateral was about 6500 ft., but I have heard of over 8,000 ft. in 24 hours. (I remember back when I broke out, a 300 ft. day in the Paleozoic section was considered pretty good, and the Lodgepole Fm. that took almost a week to drill in a vertical hole is now drilled in a few hours, not counting the trip for the BHA for the curve.) If we worked four 13,500' vertical Red River wells back then, we were hooked up for the year--about 300 days of work.   

Now, 18 hours after the production liner goes in, the rig is over the next wellhead (if on the same pad) and picking up tools.

Try the same thing in 2005 and it would take at least three weeks, and twice as many BHAs.

Speed, tool reliability (especially MWD/survey tools), and 'walking rigs' have been a big part of the change.

Two thirds of the companies who moved rigs went the way of the dinosaurs when we developed the ability to move rigs from wellhead to wellhead on a multi-well pad without rigging them down and reassembling them, and an on-pad 'move' went from a week or more down to 18-24 hours.

That economic 'stone in the pond' had many ripples that bounced around in the patch economy--fewer people, fewer trucks, less heavy equipment and crane time, less earthwork, etc. etc. etc., and all the 'support' jobs back in town from diesel mechanics to waitresses caught a slice of that pinch.
The only saving grace is that there were more jobs on the production end.

About the only constant is change.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2025, 02:28:39 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,621
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
absolutely amazes me how few people are now required to run a drilling rig.

And an EOG friend told me they just drilled a 14,000 ft lateral in only 2 days.

Incredible. @Smokin Joe

What amazes me is how clean rigs typically are now compared to yesteryear.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
What amazes me is how clean rigs typically are now compared to yesteryear.
I got initiated with pipe dope on my first visit to a rig.

Bet it is still used a lot.
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,577
Technology marches on...
When I visited an active cable tool rig operating in South Texas in 1975, I knew the industry technology was rapidly improving way back then.
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,316
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
I got initiated with pipe dope on my first visit to a rig.

Bet it is still used a lot.
It is still used, especially now, because of the torque involved in drilling laterals. It helps keep the threads in the tool joints from galling.

There was a time I could look at a rig through binoculars from 2 miles away and wind up covered with it. I watched a Company hand (back before FRs were required) go up to the doghouse wearing a white jacket given to him by a service company (advertising swag). He stayed clean, so I studied how he did it. Hands in pockets, touched nothing he did not have to, didn't lean against anything.

Now I can go up on the rig and while I may pick up a dab of drilling mud here and there, I can actually say my clothes stay pretty clean. (But then complying with NFPA 2112 outerwear requirements is expensive, and everyone tends to keep things clean on the rig so their FRs don't end up gunked up.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,316
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
When I visited an active cable tool rig operating in South Texas in 1975, I knew the industry technology was rapidly improving way back then.
Never worked around a cable tool rig, but I have worked wells on a couple of double rigs, with duplex pumps. Now there are two triplex pumps on the hole if we're drilling, and when we make a connection, it is a whole stand (~93 ft., three 'joints' of pipe) instead of just a 31 ft. joint of pipe.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis