‘Israel Will Go, It Must Not Survive, and It Will Not’

[corbe]

‘Israel Will Go, It Must Not Survive, and It Will Not’

Israel is right to see Iran as an existential threat.

June 17, 2025 by Robert Spencer

“The real divide,” Tucker Carlson declared Friday, “isn’t between people who support Israel and people who support Iran or the Palestinians. The real divide is between those who casually encourage violence, and those who seek to prevent it — between warmongers and peacemakers. Who are the warmongers? They would include anyone who’s calling Donald Trump today to demand air strikes and other direct US military involvement in a war with Iran. On that list: Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, Rupert Murdoch, Ike Perlmutter and Miriam Adelson. At some point they will all have to answer for this, but you should know their names now.”

Well, not exactly, as Levin, for one, has sharply disputed Carlson’s claim, but the idea that Israel is carrying out unprovoked warmongering assault against an innocent Islamic Republic of Iran isn’t limited to Carlson alone. Candace Owens, who shares with Carlson the mantle of being the highest-profile newly minted post-Oct. 7 antisemite, put it a bit more crudely than Carlson did: “Get ready, white American men! It’s time for you to go die for Israel again. If you don’t want to die for Israel then you are an antisemite. Sign up to die in Iran for Netanyahu today, or just admit you hate Jews. Trust the science.”

No Americans, white or otherwise, have died for Israel, unless one considers all the wars that the U.S. has waged since 9/11, or perhaps in Candace’s mind since 1941, as being for Israel or the Jews. In reality, however, as Israel (not actually America at all) has struck Iran over the last few days, it was not acting out of an unprovoked “warmongering” impulse. There has been much discussion of whether Iran was really developing a nuclear bomb, and how close it was to doing so, but quite aside from the question of nukes, for many years the Islamic Republic has made no secret of its determination to destroy Israel.

As far back as Nov. 2012, a huge billboard on Tehran’s Niayesh highway depicted a missile with the legend, “Destination Tel Aviv.” It attracted little attention from the Iranians who drove by it. Over the previous three decades of living in the Islamic Republic, they had become accustomed to a steady barrage of bellicose anti-Israel rhetoric. From the moment the Iranian mullahs took power, they had been outspoken about their hostility to Israel. The Ayatollah Khomeini dubbed Israel “the Little Satan” and once declared, “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”

<..snip..>

https://www.frontpagemag.com/israel-will-go-it-must-not-survive-and-it-will-not/

[MeganC]

With regards to Tucker Carlson:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Marcus Tullius Cicero

[Bigun]

With regards to Tucker Carlson:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Marcus Tullius Cicero

I wasted the price of a years subscription to Tucker after he left Fox News. I sincerely regret my mistake.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I support Israel but I strongly opposed us getting involved in this fight.

[MeganC]

I support Israel but I strongly opposed us getting involved in this fight.

Israel can handle this. We just need to pass the ammo and let them take out the trash. 

[Sighlass]

May never get another chance to set Iran's nuclear ambitions back 20 years than now... Drop the bunker busters Trump. Good grief.

[DB]

May never get another chance to set Iran's nuclear ambitions back 20 years than now... Drop the bunker busters Trump. Good grief.

Exactly.

And who knows how much time remains before they have a nuke. Every resource they have is likely towards that end because that's all they have left. Let it all be buried in the mountains permanently.

In addition, I don't see the Iranian masses arming themselves and screaming for war with Israel or the US. That's one of the problems with dictatorships that survive only by disarming the populace. If they get arms they'll take out their dictatorship instead.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Israel can handle this. We just need to pass the ammo and let them take out the trash. 

Exactly.

[The_Reader_David]

Israel can handle this. We just need to pass the ammo and let them take out the trash. 

That's not entirely clear, unless the ammo we pass includes use of B-52s, which seem to be the only planes capable of deploying the GBU-57 A/B MOPs that most analysts regard as the only non-nuclear ordinance capable of taking out Fordow.

(Though hitting the exact same location repeatedly with lesser ground-penetrating ordinance might do the trick.)

[libertybele]

May never get another chance to set Iran's nuclear ambitions back 20 years than now... Drop the bunker busters Trump. Good grief.

There are those in Congress who are opposed saying that it is up to Congress to allow the strike, not solely up to President Trump.

[Wingnut]

There are those in Congress who are opposed saying that it is up to Congress to allow the strike, not solely up to President Trump.

Congress lets Federal Judges stop Trump!   LOL

[IsailedawayfromFR]

There are those in Congress who are opposed saying that it is up to Congress to allow the strike, not solely up to President Trump.

suppose those same people said the same thing when Bill Clinton bombed Serbia.

[Wingnut]

That's not entirely clear, unless the ammo we pass includes use of B-52s, which seem to be the only planes capable of deploying the GBU-57 A/B MOPs that most analysts regard as the only non-nuclear ordinance capable of taking out Fordow.

(Though hitting the exact same location repeatedly with lesser ground-penetrating ordinance might do the trick.)

I think the plane they will use to deliver the GBU-57/B MOAB is the B-2 Spirit bomber.  After that the accompanying  Fighters drop some bombs into the hole created by the MAOB and then...Fin.  End of Movie.

But then I only play war games at a Holiday Inn.

[BobfromWB]

‘Israel Will Go, It Must Not Survive, and It Will Not’

Israel is right to see Iran as an existential threat.

June 17, 2025 by Robert Spencer

“The real divide,” Tucker Carlson declared Friday, “isn’t between people who support Israel and people who support Iran or the Palestinians. The real divide is between those who casually encourage violence, and those who seek to prevent it — between warmongers and peacemakers. Who are the warmongers? They would include anyone who’s calling Donald Trump today to demand air strikes and other direct US military involvement in a war with Iran. On that list: Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, Rupert Murdoch, Ike Perlmutter and Miriam Adelson. At some point they will all have to answer for this, but you should know their names now.”

Well, not exactly, as Levin, for one, has sharply disputed Carlson’s claim, but the idea that Israel is carrying out unprovoked warmongering assault against an innocent Islamic Republic of Iran isn’t limited to Carlson alone. Candace Owens, who shares with Carlson the mantle of being the highest-profile newly minted post-Oct. 7 antisemite, put it a bit more crudely than Carlson did: “Get ready, white American men! It’s time for you to go die for Israel again. If you don’t want to die for Israel then you are an antisemite. Sign up to die in Iran for Netanyahu today, or just admit you hate Jews. Trust the science.”

No Americans, white or otherwise, have died for Israel, unless one considers all the wars that the U.S. has waged since 9/11, or perhaps in Candace’s mind since 1941, as being for Israel or the Jews. In reality, however, as Israel (not actually America at all) has struck Iran over the last few days, it was not acting out of an unprovoked “warmongering” impulse. There has been much discussion of whether Iran was really developing a nuclear bomb, and how close it was to doing so, but quite aside from the question of nukes, for many years the Islamic Republic has made no secret of its determination to destroy Israel.

As far back as Nov. 2012, a huge billboard on Tehran’s Niayesh highway depicted a missile with the legend, “Destination Tel Aviv.” It attracted little attention from the Iranians who drove by it. Over the previous three decades of living in the Islamic Republic, they had become accustomed to a steady barrage of bellicose anti-Israel rhetoric. From the moment the Iranian mullahs took power, they had been outspoken about their hostility to Israel. The Ayatollah Khomeini dubbed Israel “the Little Satan” and once declared, “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”

<..snip..>

https://www.frontpagemag.com/israel-will-go-it-must-not-survive-and-it-will-not/

Keep in mind that the chants: Death to the Great Satan & Death to the Little Satan are not simple sayings, but Iranian foreign policy. Note that the Great Satan comes first, meaning the US gets hit first, then Israel. Announced decades ago, the primary US targets are NYC and Chicago. Tel Aviv and Rome are secondary.

Of course, like TC and CO [ MTG as well ], we can wait until Iran has method and means to deliver nukes to the US - in weeks or years, so then they can attack 47 for his failure to stop Iran.

[BobfromWB]

With regards to Tucker Carlson:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Marcus Tullius Cicero

Add CO and MTG

[BobfromWB]

I support Israel but I strongly opposed us getting involved in this fight.

Better to wait until Iran has method and means to nuke NYC and Chicago [ the first targets before Israel ], right?

[BobfromWB]

Exactly.

And who knows how much time remains before they have a nuke. Every resource they have is likely towards that end because that's all they have left. Let it all be buried in the mountains permanently.

In addition, I don't see the Iranian masses arming themselves and screaming for war with Israel or the US. That's one of the problems with dictatorships that survive only by disarming the populace. If they get arms they'll take out their dictatorship instead.

Right now, they are likely working feverishly to form fully enriched uranium into the metal casing that is required for a bomb.

[BobfromWB]

That's not entirely clear, unless the ammo we pass includes use of B-52s, which seem to be the only planes capable of deploying the GBU-57 A/B MOPs that most analysts regard as the only non-nuclear ordinance capable of taking out Fordow.

(Though hitting the exact same location repeatedly with lesser ground-penetrating ordinance might do the trick.)

B-52 Stratofortress is a totally different bomber than a B-2. While a B-52 is theoretically capable of carrying a 57, it is not designed to do so, unlike the B-2 Spirit which is designed to carry 2 of them.


B-52 Stratofortress


B-2 Spirit

[BobfromWB]

There are those in Congress who are opposed saying that it is up to Congress to allow the strike, not solely up to President Trump.

The MTG crowd

[Smokin Joe]

At the root of all this is the survival, not only of Israel and Israelis, but the US and Americans, and even Iran and Iranians.

While Shi'a Muslims are the majority religion in Iran, there are Christians, Zororastrians, and others  who, like it or not (and if not, do so quietly or die), are just along for the ride.

As always, a relative handful of people are calling the shots that affect millions.

It has been said "War is the failure of Diplomacy", but what is happening here is the clash between opposing and immutable systems of governance. Islam is more than a religion, it is a theocratic and intolerant governing system that seeks to ultimately control all who live.

By contrast, Christianity relies on the same sort of freedom to choose one's path, whether or not to serve God, and to what measure, but essentially is voluntary and not coercive. What form Government takes within that context is a matter of choice, and has been everything from fairly totalitarian to our Republic.

Ultimately, the clash is between worldviews: one totalitarian, one based of individual freedom, wrapped in cloaks of religion.

To not want widespread death, the inevitable irrigation of land that should be ocher considering the oceans of blood spilt over it, seems rational enough, but the ultimate question is this:

Can we trust the Theocracy in Iran to not develop the means to destroy all who oppose it, considering that it's desire to dominate and conquer the world is based on the fundamental theology of its leaders?

The obvious answer is "No."

For such a government/religion to have a weapon of mass destruction would be key to furthering its stated goals-goals which it will achieve, given the chance, because their beliefs require it.

Remember, our diplomacy is based on the notion of choices, not requirements which would extend well beyond our Earthly existence.

No more than being able to put out a 'revised and updated' Koran (which is only the Koran in the original language, and for which any alteration of the original text is punishable by death), will the ultimate goal of the Shi'a Muslims in control be altered. While they might be concealed (taqiyyah) or delayed, those ends remain the desired result.

Please, let's not denigrate the argument hurling epithets at those who simply disagree about how Iran's achievement of nuclear weapons must be stopped, or by whom. I'm not anti-semitic because I want our direct involvement limited, and I do recognize the need to stop Iran from getting WMD.

I may not always agree with Tucker Carlson, but I do see the value in his unvarnished opinions. My personal beliefs can withstand disagreement, as should be the case for all of us here.

Time will prove who is right, or at least who was wrong, but in the end, I'd like to think we are seeking the same thing: the truth.

BTW, yes, Americans have died in the defense of Israel,  pilots who left the US to fly for Israel in 1948, for starters. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/untold-story-pilots-flew-israel-180954112/ While few in number, that's more than none.

[GtHawk]

I think the plane they will use to deliver the GBU-57/B MOAB is the B-2 Spirit bomber.  After that the accompanying  Fighters drop some bombs into the hole created by the MAOB and then...Fin.  End of Movie.

But then I only play war games at a Holiday Inn.

Or they can h
Just burrow deeper with successive GBU-57’s.
The GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bomb can be dropped in succession on the same target, allowing subsequent bombs to potentially penetrate deeper.
Here's why this repeat strike capability is important:
Deeply Buried Targets: The GBU-57 is designed to penetrate deeply buried and hardened targets like underground bunkers and tunnels, potentially reaching depths of 200 feet (61 meters).
Progressive Penetration: By dropping multiple bombs in a row, the impact of the initial bombs can effectively "soften" or remove upper layers of rock and concrete, allowing subsequent MOPs to achieve deeper penetration. This can be crucial when dealing with extremely deep and well-fortified facilities, like Iran's Fordow nuclear facility, which is believed to be located deep inside a mountain.
Enhanced Effectiveness: This layered approach increases the chances of effectively destroying deeply buried targets that a single bomb, no matter how powerful, might not be able to reach.
In summary, the GBU-57's ability to be used in repeat strikes enhances its effectiveness against hardened, deeply buried targets by allowing for progressively deeper penetration with each successive bomb.

[BobfromWB]

Or they can h
Just burrow deeper with successive GBU-57’s.
The GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bomb can be dropped in succession on the same target, allowing subsequent bombs to potentially penetrate deeper.
Here's why this repeat strike capability is important:
Deeply Buried Targets: The GBU-57 is designed to penetrate deeply buried and hardened targets like underground bunkers and tunnels, potentially reaching depths of 200 feet (61 meters).
Progressive Penetration: By dropping multiple bombs in a row, the impact of the initial bombs can effectively "soften" or remove upper layers of rock and concrete, allowing subsequent MOPs to achieve deeper penetration. This can be crucial when dealing with extremely deep and well-fortified facilities, like Iran's Fordow nuclear facility, which is believed to be located deep inside a mountain.
Enhanced Effectiveness: This layered approach increases the chances of effectively destroying deeply buried targets that a single bomb, no matter how powerful, might not be able to reach.
In summary, the GBU-57's ability to be used in repeat strikes enhances its effectiveness against hardened, deeply buried targets by allowing for progressively deeper penetration with each successive bomb.

The GBU57 has been updated 3-4 times, since the 2015 figure above. Penetration through super hard concrete is drastically less. Instead of 61m, its more like 8m.

[GtHawk]

The GBU57 has been updated 3-4 times, since the 2015 figure above. Penetration through super hard concrete is drastically less. Instead of 67m, its more like 8m.

Evolution of Capability: The GBU-57 has undergone development and updates since its initial testing in 2007, and it is likely more capable now. For example, the GBU-57E/B has improved capabilities for penetrating concrete compared to earlier models.
Important Notes:
While the reported penetration capabilities are based on information about the bomb's design and testing, there is no precise public information about the ultimate penetration capacity of the very latest models.

Advertised capabilities are one thing, reality 🤷🏼‍♂️