$15 Billion And Climbing: Trump’s Tariffs Deliver Record High Revenue

[Wingnut]

I took a cursory glace at my past years Amazon buys to see how much the Trump Tariffs have caused those Chinaman made items to increase... if I bought them today.  Know what, many are the same price. Some cost less because the sellers have added a "Coupon" of 10-15% off.  What did increase where Solar outdoor lighting products and LED light bulbs.  (Can't figure that last one out)

So anecdotally I am marked safe from tariffs.  I bet you are too.

[roamer_1]

It is a canard. The anti-tariff crowd is half slicing it and cherry picking. China has built itself from a centrally planning Marxist economy to one of the most powerful economic engine in the world in a mere 30 years, based on some of the most protectionist, mercantilist policies in existence.

Those practices have not hurt them at all.

Oh yes it does hurt them. They are what, 5 times our size - larger by geography and by population, and they can't even garner a GDP equal to ours. Their standard of living is nearly Medieval in inland and rural China.Take Hong Kong (a western creation) off the board and their way is hopeless. Just like socialist Russia, which is another to examine.

They live by way of 3rd-way socialism for their elite business class, leaving the rest to a form of serfdom. This 3rd-way will fail just as bad.

The other half of that slice is that American jobs have bled out the last 30 years since NAFTA as we have always been on the short end of the stick. Even if we have negotiated an equal trade stance, the WTO or whoever is in charge will not punish our counterparts for cheating and skirting the agreement.

All of economics is circular, economic policies work on all directions for and against with winners and losers at every step. There is no half slicing. Tariffs may be rude and crude, but they are the only hammer we have against mercantilist nations. I do not think Trump means them to be permanent, it is up to those nations to decide that, although with China I do believe he is trying to isolate tem on trade.

Doesn't matter - That's the head fake.
The attention is on how other countries treat us and take advantage of us, which is a fair point. It just doesn't matter.

If we truly practiced what WE preach, how other countries treat us would not matter at all, because that roaring economic engine knows no equal - That is proven for decades.

Protectionism is a damnable lie, that shows no light - NO LIGHT - on the systemic problems that are keeping our economic engine throttled down. Those problems are INTERNAL, and by those problems we will fail.

[roamer_1]

Meanwhile, manufacturing investment is coming back to America.

No, it's not.

[roamer_1]

True, but most of that merchandise is Chinese and Asian made. I'm not sure how much help we are lending to ourselves.

*shrugs*

If you want jobs, maybe address the reasons why those jobs have flown. Quit being a crybaby and out-compete them. THAT's the American Way.

[Free Vulcan]

Oh yes it does hurt them. They are what, 5 times our size - larger by geography and by population, and they can't even garner a GDP equal to ours. Their standard of living is nearly Medieval in inland and rural China.Take Hong Kong (a western creation) off the board and their way is hopeless. Just like socialist Russia, which is another to examine.

They live by way of 3rd-way socialism for their elite business class, leaving the rest to a form of serfdom. This 3rd-way will fail just as bad.

But they've come along way from where they were in a short time with their policies, flawed as they may be.

Doesn't matter - That's the head fake.
The attention is on how other countries treat us and take advantage of us, which is a fair point. It just doesn't matter.

If we truly practiced what WE preach, how other countries treat us would not matter at all, because that roaring economic engine knows no equal - That is proven for decades.

Protectionism is a damnable lie, that shows no light - NO LIGHT - on the systemic problems that are keeping our economic engine throttled down. Those problems are INTERNAL, and by those problems we will fail.

Even if we fix our problems and lower our costs, it might stimulate some internal demand, but foreign nations will adjust and lower the cost of their goods through their same practices and we still will not be able to compete. It won't be a cure all for our trade problems.

[Free Vulcan]

No, it's not.

I continue to read articles to the contrary.

[Free Vulcan]

*shrugs*

If you want jobs, maybe address the reasons why those jobs have flown. Quit being a crybaby and out-compete them. THAT's the American Way.

We won't compete if they simply adjust their trade policies to compensate.

[Bigun]

Even if we fix our problems and lower our costs, it might stimulate some internal demand, but foreign nations will adjust and lower the cost of their goods through their same practices and we still will not be able to compete. It won't be a cure all for our trade problems.

I beg to differ @Free Vulcan IF we fixed our tax system no one would be able to compete with us here or globally.

[roamer_1]

But they've come along way from where they were in a short time with their policies, flawed as they may be.

Right. By applying Western principles. By applying Hong Kong and San Francisco.

But even so, do you think it is sustainable = whole cities being constructed never to be inhabited just to make the bottom line... ???

Even if we fix our problems and lower our costs, it might stimulate some internal demand, but foreign nations will adjust and lower the cost of their goods through their same practices and we still will not be able to compete. It won't be a cure all for our trade problems.

I think that's wrong. The problems abroad are always the same since WWII. Sure things shift, and things slide around... But the same forces exist between nations.

The difference is us. we changed. We became bloated consumers that are risk-averse, with everything insured to the 9's. We have a bloated, union driven business model that should be long dead. And we have a every conceivable weight laid against profit-taking, to include a government that costs every bit of our income from January to July, and what it takes from business causes that to pale.

THAT is where the problems lie.

[LMAO]

Whether one agrees with these tariffs or not, what’s undeniable is the chaotic and random nature of the rollout and implementation

Conflicting messages from each individual in this administration, on again off again, standing strong until the bond market or the threat of empty shelves forces the administration to roll back, ect ect

We were better off doing nothing. 

[roamer_1]

Worry about the work - The money will come.

[roamer_1]

Use it up.
Wear it out.
Make it do
or do without.

[Free Vulcan]

I beg to differ @Free Vulcan IF we fixed our tax system no one would be able to compete with us here or globally.

I totally agree @Bigun but we will still have to crack thru their protectionist policies to gain access to their markets or they will just compensate, which is why they need to understand that we'll take it right back at them if they don't play on an equal basis.

[Bigun]

I totally agree @Bigun but we will still have to crack thru their protectionist policies to gain access to their markets or they will just compensate, which is why they need to understand that we'll take it right back at them if they don't play on an equal basis.

Ok! We are definitely on the same page! @Free Vulcan

[roamer_1]

I totally agree @Bigun but we will still have to crack thru their protectionist policies to gain access to their markets or they will just compensate, which is why they need to understand that we'll take it right back at them if they don't play on an equal basis.

No, if it is fixed, we need little other than our own markets.We have the largest consumer base on the planet - Way more than we need internally. THAT is why they never could compete with us. And that is the beauty of a free market.

Imagine business unencumbered by tax and regulation and a work force hungry for the work it would bring. THAT is the juggernaut.

[roamer_1]

ALL of our woes come from a behemoth government that costs way more than its worth,

And the inability of the American public to give up the idea that every other entity is responsible for their own well being - not themselves.

Rugged individualism - The very basis of our republic - is what is missing.

[Free Vulcan]

Right. By applying Western principles. By applying Hong Kong and San Francisco.

But even so, do you think it is sustainable = whole cities being constructed never to be inhabited just to make the bottom line... ???

Sort of, but only in a mercantilist way. The original point was that mercantilist policies are damaging to economies, when in fact great empires have been built on them. Yes they ultimately collapse, but that only matters if you can outlast them, and right now not sure we can.

I think that's wrong. The problems abroad are always the same since WWII. Sure things shift, and things slide around... But the same forces exist between nations.

The difference is us. we changed. We became bloated consumers that are risk-averse, with everything insured to the 9's. We have a bloated, union driven business model that should be long dead. And we have a every conceivable weight laid against profit-taking, to include a government that costs every bit of our income from January to July, and what it takes from business causes that to pale.

THAT is where the problems lie.

The unions aren't much of a force anymore, but the govt is yes, for all the reasons you said and more.

Them problem is if we fix all those problems, the Chinese will still try to undercut us in price, and the bloated consumerism will continue until we deal with that, trade wise.

[Free Vulcan]

No, if it is fixed, we need little other than our own markets.We have the largest consumer base on the planet - Way more than we need internally. THAT is why they never could compete with us. And that is the beauty of a free market.

Imagine business unencumbered by tax and regulation and a work force hungry for the work it would bring. THAT is the juggernaut.

Yes it will help us greatly internally, and that would be the ideal. But not with trade, not if they counter us with protectionist policies to undercut us in price and therefore demand.

And while in the long term those policies would break them, we don't have the long term. Things are too far gone and the fight is now. We can't keep bleeding production jobs to them.

[roamer_1]

Sort of, but only in a mercantilist way. The original point was that mercantilist policies are damaging to economies, when in fact great empires have been built on them. Yes they ultimately collapse, but that only matters if you can outlast them, and right now not sure we can.

Oh, we cannot - Especially if we apply protectionism.

The unions aren't much of a force anymore, but the govt is yes, for all the reasons you said and more.

The ghost of the unions reside in the expectation that business will take care of your health care, and provide you with 1/12th of the year off, with half of that paid... Plus another week off in national holidays... Not to mention all the other spiff that has become expected.

The biggest drag on our business is government. But the second biggest is labor.

Them problem is if we fix all those problems, the Chinese will still try to undercut us in price, and the bloated consumerism will continue until we deal with that, trade wise.

Of course they will try. That's business! Let em. Beat em.

[roamer_1]

Yes it will help us greatly internally, and that would be the ideal. But not with trade, not if they counter us with protectionist policies to undercut us in price and therefore demand.

No. It COSTS TOO MUCH to operate a business in the US. That's WHY all our businesses are OVER THERE.

That's the whole shooting match, right there.

Now, what to do about it?

1) Apply protectionism and force those businesses back, rubbing their noses in it.

or
2) offer a long term attractive business environment so they will want to come back?

More bees with honey, friend.

And while in the long term those policies would break them, we don't have the long term. Things are too far gone and the fight is now. We can't keep bleeding production jobs to them.

Again, that will continue (regardless of protectionism) until the systemic problems here at home are fixed.

Or we will lose and be very very hungry... Which is the likely outcome, because the internal systemic problems will not be fixed... But protectionism will not help a damn thing, except limit options when we need them the most.

[Free Vulcan]

No. It COSTS TOO MUCH to operate a business in the US. That's WHY all our businesses are OVER THERE.

That's the whole shooting match, right there.

Now, what to do about it?

1) Apply protectionism and force those businesses back, rubbing their noses in it.

or
2) offer a long term attractive business environment so they will want to come back?

More bees with honey, friend.

Again, that will continue (regardless of protectionism) until the systemic problems here at home are fixed.

Or we will lose and be very very hungry... Which is the likely outcome, because the internal systemic problems will not be fixed... But protectionism will not help a damn thing, except limit options when we need them the most.

In the long term and an ideal world yes, but reciprocal tariffs are about the only tool we have right now. It's a stick to get them to negotiate. Their govts are often worse than our so I'm not worried to compete with them at the moment if we can end their tariffs and other protectionist stuff that shut us out of their markets.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Let's hope the additional revenues are used to pay down debt (expecially the most expensive), and not spent many times over.

[roamer_1]

In the long term and an ideal world yes, but reciprocal tariffs are about the only tool we have right now. It's a stick to get them to negotiate. Their govts are often worse than our so I'm not worried to compete with them at the moment if we can end their tariffs and other protectionist stuff that shut us out of their markets.

Nope. It is a tax. and all it will do is enrich governments.
As far as changing the playing field... Businesses will make grand promises to avoid tariffs and will sit it out in hopes for a changing attitude 4 years from now. That's how it will go.

[roamer_1]

Let's hope the additional revenues are used to pay down debt (expecially the most expensive), and not spent many times over.

Hope in one hand, sh*t in the other... guess which one fills up first 

[Smokin Joe]

Meanwhile, manufacturing investment is coming back to America.

It's like those media pics that try to make a commie protest crowd look like millions when there's only hundreds or thousands. But hey keep up the snapshotting and cherry picking, it really makes you look like a smart one.

Yep. And that will take a year or two to be felt outside the construction sector. It isn't like someone could just walk in, turn on the wall switch, and start making stuff.