Author Topic: Ukraine 6  (Read 573412 times)

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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2150 on: Today at 10:48:42 am »
And there you have it. Me myself likes to avoid going full Cap'n Queeg.

Standing against evil is not a moral failing. Sad that I have to inform you of this.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2151 on: Today at 10:53:42 am »
Standing against evil is not a moral failing. Sad that I have to inform you of this.

So it's evil to the East and astounding corruption to the West.  Makes it hard to choose when one considers corruption "evil."  Just an observation....
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2152 on: Today at 10:57:47 am »
So it's evil to the East and astounding corruption to the West.  Makes it hard to choose when one considers corruption "evil."  Just an observation....

In the past twenty years Russia has waged war against its own people, invaded and stolen land from three sovereign nations, and Ukraine has not.

This is not morally ambiguous. Not even close.

Russia needs to stop with their behavior that's the problem.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2153 on: Today at 11:02:05 am »
Standing against evil is not a moral failing. Sad that I have to inform you of this.

Well princess, you can preach that sermon in the worship center of your choice anytime you want, but I'm not buying your religion.

You and others on this board wanting to bring down a country with thousands of nukes with no concept of fallout and consequences are the epitome of silly childish tantrums.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2154 on: Today at 11:05:41 am »
In the past twenty years Russia has waged war against its own people, invaded and stolen land from three sovereign nations, and Ukraine has not.

This is not morally ambiguous. Not even close.

Russia needs to stop with their behavior that's the problem.

What part of this isn't friggin' church do you not understand? I don't care about your moral lines. You are not my Personal Jesus.

Ukraine is corrupt. They've helped to enable alot of things. Maybe they aren't sending tanks across their border, but they've helped alot of other shady ambitions.

I really don't want to touch either country with a 10 foot pole.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2155 on: Today at 11:11:40 am »
I don't want to bring down Russia.

I want Putin out of Ukraine's 1992 borders.

Bringing down Russia would be a mistake.  It would create a power vacuum that would be filled with chaos, civil war, lawlessness, and possible nuclear proliferation.

Containment is a better strategy when it comes to Russia.  Russia is not a nation but an empire of nations that requires strong central authority to maintain order.

I would like to see Putin replaced with someone less corrupt and less belligerent.  But it is up to the Russian people to decide the trajectory for their nation.

It's easy to topple the king, but much more difficult and complicated to rule his kingdom.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2156 on: Today at 12:49:07 pm »
I don't want to bring down Russia.

I want Putin out of Ukraine's 1992 borders.

Bringing down Russia would be a mistake.  It would create a power vacuum that would be filled with chaos, civil war, lawlessness, and possible nuclear proliferation.

Containment is a better strategy when it comes to Russia.  Russia is not a nation but an empire of nations that requires strong central authority to maintain order.

I would like to see Putin replaced with someone less corrupt and less belligerent.  But it is up to the Russian people to decide the trajectory for their nation.

It's easy to topple the king, but much more difficult and complicated to rule his kingdom.

But it is up to the Russian people to decide the trajectory for their nation.

They chose their fate when they elected Putin.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2157 on: Today at 12:58:51 pm »
You and others on this board wanting to bring down a country with thousands of nukes with no concept of fallout and consequences are the epitome of silly childish tantrums.

This same line of nonsense was said back in the 90's when the USSR collapsed.

"OMG, WW3 will start if the Soviet Union collapses!"

It didn't happen.

And if Russia collapses now it still won't happen.

Oh sure, China might want to make some border adjustments and I imagine a lot of other countries will want to take back territory from Russia such as Ukraine, Finland, Japan, Moldova, Georgia, and etc.

The US should probably take back Wrangel Island while we're at it.
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2158 on: Today at 12:59:28 pm »
I really don't want to touch either country with a 10 foot pole.

For someone who claims to "not care about either country", you sure show up a lot on these threads.

Perhaps you are more invested in this conflict than you are letting on?
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2159 on: Today at 01:05:46 pm »
For someone who claims to "not care about either country", you sure show up a lot on these threads.

Perhaps you are more invested in this conflict than you are letting on?

I believe he/she is playing the part of a 'Concern Troll':

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
con·cern troll
nounderogatory•informal
a person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:18:45 pm by MeganC »
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2160 on: Today at 01:18:19 pm »
Concern Troll Narratives in Russia's War of Conquest Against Ukraine

Note that the desired outcome of these various narratives exclusively support Russian war goals and they NEVER favor Ukrainian goals.

1. "It's not our war!" which calls for an end to materiel support for Ukraine which helps Russia.
2. "America First!" which is a variant of #1
3. "This is Europe's war!" which is not only ahistorical it is also a variant of #1

4. "Russia might nuke us!" which is yet another variant on #1 saying we should let Russia do what they want to lest the country that can't conquer the country right next door might decide to cross three different oceans to attack the United States.

5. "Ukraine is corrupt!" which is a morally bankrupt position to take when someone gets attacked by a bully. This particular variant is often accompanied by hatred against America that sounds just like the same crap we hear from the left on a daily basis. The only difference is it is coming from Concern Trolls who are trying to posture Putin and Russia as some bunch of White Knights out to vanquish corruption in Ukraine. These troll narratives often portray the US and our leaders as being manipulated by the nefarious Zelensky and make the case that the US should abandon Ukraine to Russia because of the corruption that took place in Ukraine when they had Russian puppets in charge.

6. "Ukraine should surrender!" which obviously supports Russia's war goals.

Concern trolls also tend to deny the fact that Russia's war against Ukraine started in 2014 long before anyone outside of Ukraine even knew who Zelensky was.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:23:06 pm by MeganC »
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2161 on: Today at 01:46:11 pm »
Concern trolls also tend to deny the fact that Russia's war against Ukraine started in 2014 long before anyone outside of Ukraine even knew who Zelensky was.

100% right on!  And plus Zelensky was just an actor and comedian in Ukraine in 2014.  He was not elected president until April 2019.  Poroshenko, who despises Putin even more than Zelensky, was the one who first fought back against the Russians in Crimea and the Donbas.  Why kinda puts the lie to the wishcasting that peace would be achieved if only Zelensky was removed and replaced.

With whom?  Poroshenko again?  Valerii Zaluzhnyi, who was the general who first beat back the Russians away from Kyiv in March 2022?  Or Yulia Tymoshenko, who Putin toadie Yanukovuch locked up for years because she was a threat to his power and Putin's inside Ukraine?

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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2162 on: Today at 01:49:58 pm »
Good points, Megan!

I especially like when they accuse you of "imposing your morality" when you simply point out (with ample evidence to back it up!) that Putin is a murderous monster, LOL

Anything to stop the discussion, I guess ...

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2163 on: Today at 02:04:29 pm »
You and others on this board wanting to bring down a country with thousands of nukes with no concept of fallout and consequences are the epitome of silly childish tantrums.

Uh, no.  I simply want Russia to stop committing war crimes, stop targeting civilians, stop bullying its neighbors, and above all else GET THE HELL OUT OF UKRAINE!  Capisce?
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2164 on: Today at 02:04:34 pm »
Lookout everyone, the echo chamber is starting to reverberate off each other.

It's so ironic that the tactics used are right out of the Soviet Union.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2165 on: Today at 02:06:11 pm »
It's so ironic that the tactics used are right out of the Soviet Union.

Reporting the TRUTH is a 'tactic' right out of the Soviet Union?  Seriously?
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2166 on: Today at 02:12:48 pm »
This same line of nonsense was said back in the 90's when the USSR collapsed.

"OMG, WW3 will start if the Soviet Union collapses!"

It didn't happen.

And if Russia collapses now it still won't happen.

Oh sure, China might want to make some border adjustments and I imagine a lot of other countries will want to take back territory from Russia such as Ukraine, Finland, Japan, Moldova, Georgia, and etc.

The US should probably take back Wrangel Island while we're at it.

Apples and oranges, but all you got is apples and oranges. The Soviet state was a confederation without any real national identity, not so with Russia.

We aren't talking about war, we are talking the proliferation of WMD's if they collapse, which in your Cap'n Queeg quest isn't a matter of concern to you., so you deflect. And there will be anarchy and a power vacuum no matter how much you want to stick your head in the sand.

Carving up Russia might be on your globalist neocon agenda but not mine. You're like Lindsay Graham's mini-me.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:16:33 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2167 on: Today at 02:16:04 pm »
Reporting the TRUTH is a 'tactic' right out of the Soviet Union?  Seriously?

Half-truth at best. How in other than child world are you going to make that happen? Putting out platitudes without solutions is it's own form of dishonesty.

Let's face it, the pro-Ukraine fanboys want to sink billions down that hole and have American boots on the ground no matter how much they deny it.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2168 on: Today at 02:17:55 pm »
For someone who claims to "not care about either country", you sure show up a lot on these threads.

Perhaps you are more invested in this conflict than you are letting on?

I'm concerned about the US getting neck deep in another war and thousands of dead US soldiers, which as a Canadian I know you could care less about.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2169 on: Today at 02:26:07 pm »
The Soviet state was a confederation without any real national identity, not so with Russia.

What part of this Russian identity in Ukraine is so necessary to Russia that they have to conquer or kill Ukrainians?

Sorry chum, your buddy Putin is trying to recreate the Soviet Empire.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2170 on: Today at 02:27:47 pm »
What part of this Russian identity in Ukraine is so necessary to Russia that they have to conquer or kill Ukrainians?

Sorry chum, your buddy Putin is trying to recreate the Soviet Empire.

I don't see the need to answer you if you can't follow your own train of thought.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2171 on: Today at 02:28:20 pm »
I'm concerned about the US getting neck deep in another war and thousands of dead US soldiers

Wow. You get called out as a Concern Troll and then can't help but to reinforce the point. You're making this too easy. Thanks!  tipping hat!!



« Last Edit: Today at 02:31:11 pm by MeganC »
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2172 on: Today at 02:30:39 pm »
Wow. You get called out as a Concern Troll and then can't help but to reinforce the point. You're making this too easy. Thanks!  tipping hat!!

And you're not denying that you'd sacrifice every last American soldier to fulfill your Cap'n Queeg quest.

That that's the bottom line. You've danced around it in pages after pages of threads, but you want it so bad that it's the elephant in the room.

Good luck with that Lindsay, globalist neocon.
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2173 on: Today at 02:33:05 pm »
globalist neocon agenda

LOL now we know you're a Russian groupie

Wouldn't you be more at home on TOPOSS?

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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2174 on: Today at 02:33:23 pm »
And you're not denying that you'd sacrifice every last American soldier to fulfill your Cap'n Queeg quest.

Straw man fallacy. Yet another troll tactic to expect someone to defend an argument they never made.

Here's a video of logical fallacies for you to avoid so I don't embarrass you by calling them out in the future:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCg-SNOteQQ
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2175 on: Today at 02:40:05 pm »
LOL now we know you're a Russian groupie

Wouldn't you be more at home on TOPOSS?

And you're Z's personal bootlicker, more than willing to sacrifice American lives to keep your boy in power.

How much does he pay you to be his personal emissary?

See how easy that is?
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2176 on: Today at 02:41:39 pm »
Straw man fallacy. Yet another troll tactic to expect someone to defend an argument they never made.

Here's a video of logical fallacies for you to avoid so I don't embarrass you by calling them out in the future:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCg-SNOteQQ

You mean like calling me a Russia troll?

Hypocrisy is an ugly look.

Sorry princess, but we're still not going to send American troops to Ukraine for your Cap'n Queeg quest, but it's not going to happen no badly your paymaster Z wants it to.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2177 on: Today at 02:49:06 pm »
Neo-Con Regime Change is 0-2 this century.

If the UN had put peace keepers on the Ukraine-Russia, Ukraine-Belarus, and Ukraine-Transnistria borders, would Putin still have invaded?

The United Nations missed an opportunity to prevent this war, but whiffed.

Victory = Russian forces not inside Ukraine's 1992 borders, including Crimea - nothing more, nothing less.

Now we have Chi-coms playing wargames with Belarus ("anti-terrorist" exercise) and Serbia, both friends of Russia.

I think Putin will win this one because the West does not have the stomach to give Ukraine offensive weapons necessary to dislodged the Russians from Ukrainian territory.

Putin is the James Bond 007 villian that wins.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:51:52 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2178 on: Today at 02:49:41 pm »
You mean like calling me a Russia troll?

Hypocrisy is an ugly look.

Sorry princess, but we're still not going to send American troops to Ukraine for your Cap'n Queeg quest, but it's not going to happen no badly your paymaster Z wants it to.

I specifically called you a Concern Troll.

Whether or not you are Russian I have yet to determine. Probably not based upon your grammar and vocabulary. But Russians like the very accomplished Vladimir Vladimirovich Pozner are amazingly astute with vernacular and idiomatic American English so I won't rule it out.

After all you're the one who brought up the notion that I accused you of being a Russian troll. Guilty conscience, maybe?

Or just another Straw Man fallacy?

For now I am content to let this go as yet another reflexive use of the Straw Man fallacy.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2179 on: Today at 02:52:38 pm »
Now we have Chi-coms playing wargames with Belarus ("anti-terrorist" exercise) and Serbia, both friends of Russia.

Russia-Serbia relations have fractured as of recent days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXi6NkKZMw4

Russia has accused its traditional Slavic ally Serbia of betraying their relationship by supplying over $900 million worth of missiles and arms to Ukraine. According to the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), at least seven major Serbian defense companies have covertly sent hundreds of thousands of rockets and millions of small arms cartridges to Ukraine, often using fake end-user certificates and routing shipments through NATO intermediaries such as the Czech Republic, Poland, and Bulgaria. Russia described these transfers as a "stab in the back," but Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić has denied these allegations.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2180 on: Today at 03:01:04 pm »
Reports from Russia today say that Russia started the day in "blackout mode".

Airline flights in central Russia are grounded, mobile communications are shut down, Russian GPS is shut down, and checkpoints are showing up on main roads.

Russian trolls on TOS have amped up their usual venom but notably many of the familiar troll names are MIA. Perhaps impacted by the regional internet shut downs.

Euronews had an article saying that Putin may have survived an attempted coup sometime in the past ten days. Approximately forty business, political, and military leaders died from various causes and the deaths appear to have commonalities such as suicide and window cancer.

Drone attacks were reported in Kazan.

No Russian drones attacked Ukraine last night.

A Russian 'Grisha' warship has gone missing somewhere east of Kamchatka and Japan has offered to assist in search and rescue operations with no response from Russia. The ship is assumed lost.

Multiple channels on YouTube are reporting that the Russian aircraft carrier Kuznetzov will not be returning to service. The ship has been in overhaul status since 2017 with little to no progress reported, observed, or even claimed. The consensus is that the ship will be abandoned and perhaps even scrapped.

Russia no longer has an aircraft carrier. Not even a joke of an aircraft carrier.

I assume I was being referred to in this post, though not specifically, or are you going to deflect?

You don't determine anything, I have been here 15 years and you don't sit at the left hand of Jesus.

That said I have yet to determine if you are bought and paid for by the Z govt.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:01:50 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2181 on: Today at 03:09:35 pm »
I assume I was being referred to in this post, though not specifically, or are you going to deflect?

You don't determine anything, I have been here 15 years and you don't sit at the left hand of Jesus.

That said I have yet to determine if you are bought and paid for by the Z govt.

This was in in reference to the trolls on another site. "TOS" = The Other Site.

Sorry to disappoint you but that post had nothing to do with anyone on TBR.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:17:48 pm by MeganC »
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2182 on: Today at 03:10:07 pm »
Let's stop attacking other Briefers and getting back to the war updates?
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2183 on: Today at 03:14:19 pm »
That said I have yet to determine if you are bought and paid for by the Z govt.

I send money to support Ukrainian causes via Ukraine House, a properly registered 501(c)(3) charitable entity in the United States.

https://www.ukrainehouse.us/support-ukraine

If they offered me compensation for my intermittent internet postings I'd refuse it. I don't need it.
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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2184 on: Today at 03:26:35 pm »
Quote
MeganC...

But it is up to the Russian people to decide the trajectory for their nation.

They chose their fate when they elected Putin.

You are completely wrong on both counts.  First, the Russian people have never, ever decided the trajectory of their nation.  During the days of the czars, there was nobility, and there was the serf class, who had nothing to say about a damn thing.  During the communist era, the state owned everything, and every living being in Russia was 100% expendable.  That is still the case today.  A totalitarian government under Putin, the people did not elect anyone.  If ever there was a fixed election, they are all fixed in Russia.  And in the remote areas of Russia, the communists are still very much in control.  Every Putin election was fixed.  And when Putin was not running Russia, he was behind the scenes pulling the strings and in real control.

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2185 on: Today at 03:59:17 pm »
"First lady Melania Trump helped convince president to get tough on Russia, he says"

"As he explained his decision to get tough on Russian President Vladimir Putin, Trump said his wife was one of the people who directly pointed out to him that Putin always backs out of his promises following their phone calls over a peace deal.

“I go home, I tell the first lady, ‘You know, I spoke to Vladimir today. We had a wonderful conversation.’ She said, ‘Oh, really? another city was just hit,'” he said, recounting one of their recent calls..."

https://nypost.com/2025/07/14/us-news/first-lady-melania-trump-helped-convince-president-to-get-tough-on-russia-he-says/
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2186 on: Today at 04:03:49 pm »
"First lady Melania Trump helped convince president to get tough on Russia, he says"

Melania's much smarter and wiser than Trump...heck she should be the President and not him!
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2187 on: Today at 04:10:31 pm »
Melania's much smarter and wiser than Trump...heck she should be the President and not him!

She's also from Eastern Europe, so she, her parents, and her community had lots of first-hand experience with murderous Russian bastards over the years

Thanks Melania, for speaking up!
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Online jafo2010

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Re: Ukraine 6
« Reply #2188 on: Today at 05:12:31 pm »
Russia was a prominent nation in the 20th Century, emerging from WWII a powerhouse.  It was forced to ramp up its war production to fight the Nazis for mere survival, and with USA help through Lend Lease, they survived.  But when the USSR collapsed in 1991, that was the end.  The USSR transitioned into a 3rd world nation in many respects.

And virtually every aspect of life in today's Russia is based on fraud or corruption.  People can literally buy a university degree by paying off professors along the way for what amounts to pennies.  I know Russians here in the USA that did just that.  I know one woman with an engineering degree, and she could not build a house with Legos she is so stupid.  But she came from a family that had the money for her to buy here way through school.

The whole of Russia is that way.  And since they have emerged from being a communist society, hard work is not part of their ethic.  People got paid in jobs and did little to nothing.  Being productive is not part of their ethic.  That in part is why capital flowed into Russia at a slow rate.  Who wants to invest in a nation of people with no work ethic?  No one!!!

Putin thinks the Russia of today is no different than the Russia of 1945.  In fact, with the corruption, the rot of this nation is pervasive through the whole culture.  People even today still do not have freedom of thought.  Say the wrong thing, you end up with a bullet in your head in your own flat. 

Putin looked at history and said to himself, I can do what Hitler did.  If I want to reunite what was once the former USSR, I can do that.  Mind you, no one has stood up to this tyrant in 25 years.  And with the weakest POTUS in USA history, Joe Biden, the time was right to launch his reunification campaign.  Biden was dead from the neck up, and Putin did not understand the USA, not at all.  He thought with a few shots fired, he would recreate the USSR.

And that idea is his legacy.  He will go down in history as a failed Adolph Hitler clone.  Hitler took Poland in two weeks.  Putin thought he would do the same in Ukraine.  Yet, here we are, 4th year of the war, and Russia now has over 1,000,000 casualties, and the numbers remain high of Russian casualties.  With the help of the USA and NATO nations, the tide has turned on this war.  Ukraine is winning the ground war, and is now leveling Russia.  And it will continue to get worse for Russia with each passing year.

This only ends when someone near Putin puts a bullet into him, or poisons him.  But one blinks wrong in Russia, and they are disappeared.  So, the list is not long of anyone willing to risk their life to end Putin.  And his paranoia is sufficiently high to put distance between him and almost all around him.  In meetings, he usually sits at a great distance from those in Russia he meets with.  No one can close on him, and ram the temple of a pair of glasses through his eye or neck, like in one of the Godfather movies.  That is not happening.

I hate to say it, but we may be faced with waiting for him to die naturally, which might take 20 years.  And in that time, he will remain a monster.  It will take the general population starving to death, as what happened in Egypt a few years ago, to overthrow Putin.  So, the time has come to end all trade with Russia in terms of food from countries outside of Russia.  And I say the USA needs to start pressuring China to reign in their aid to Russia.

And if Europe was smart, they would end all trade with Russia.  Would China still support Russia if they had to pay a global tariff to fund the war?  I don't think so.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:15:34 pm by jafo2010 »