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Offline mystery-ak

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Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« on: March 02, 2025, 11:59:14 am »
Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
By Joe Cunningham | 12:02 PM on March 01, 2025

I write from what I suspect is a growing minority position within some conservative circles: Namely, I still believe it's in America's best interests to assist Ukraine in standing up to Russia.

The Russians are open to peace because Putin knows they have used more resources than expected - a lot more - in trying to take the country. And, I suspect, they are worried that their support from China might dry up because of all the resources they have used to make what amounts to little gain in Ukraine. So while everyone is accusing President Donald Trump of bowing to Putin's whims, the truth is a bit more complex. It's not that peace would give Putin what he wants in Ukraine, but it allows Putin to save face.

What happened in the Oval Office yesterday was a boon for Putin. That's not really in question. It's less about how Trump "helped" Putin and more about how Volodymyr Zelensky helped Putin.

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https://redstate.com/joesquire/2025/03/01/zelenskyy-did-more-damage-to-ukraines-cause-than-russia-ever-could-n2186157
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2025, 12:00:31 pm »
Quote
The Russians are open to peace because Putin knows they have used more resources than expected

That is NOT true at all.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2025, 12:01:34 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on March 02, 2025, 12:00:31 pm
That is NOT true at all.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2025, 12:02:17 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on March 02, 2025, 12:00:31 pm
That is NOT true at all.
Right. That week long war has kinda stretched out, wot?

His blitzkrieg turned out to be more krieg than blitz.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2025, 12:02:34 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on March 02, 2025, 12:01:34 pm
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...

Show me where Russia actually wants peace...hell it could have it today if it stopped its attacks against Ukraine and pulled all its troops back behind its own borders.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2025, 12:04:23 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on March 02, 2025, 12:02:34 pm
Show me where Russia actually wants peace...hell it could have it today if it stopped its attacks against Ukraine and pulled all its troops back behind its own borders.

I could give a crap whether they want peace or not. The only thing for Russia is containment, and Z just blew any chance of us being part of that.

Now he's betting on Europe, which I'm fine with, it's their problem anyway.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2025, 01:07:10 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on March 02, 2025, 12:02:34 pm
Show me where Russia actually wants peace...hell it could have it today if it stopped its attacks against Ukraine and pulled all its troops back behind its own borders.
Admission of a desire to quit throwing men, money, and materiel into the meatgrinder would mean a loss of 'face' and an admission of defeat.
Being persuaded to take a deal where both sides could claim some sort of victory would preserve 'face' and stop the bleeding.

Putin won't ever publicly admit it (that he underestimated the Ukrainians and their resolve), but would no doubt be relieved to see the war end. To admit it would be a sign of weakness, and that would end him.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2025, 01:09:56 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on March 02, 2025, 12:04:23 pm
I could give a crap whether they want peace or not. The only thing for Russia is containment, and Z just blew any chance of us being part of that.

Now he's betting on Europe, which I'm fine with, it's their problem anyway.

Yes, Ukraine is now Europe's problem.  Will they be able to contain Putin?  That remains to be seen.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2025, 06:26:09 pm »
 Donald Tusk, the Prime Minister of Poland:  “500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians — Europe today lacks the belief that we are truly a global power.”

https://twitter.com/EYakoby/status/1896292758605988258
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Offline 240B

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2025, 06:42:25 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on March 02, 2025, 12:04:23 pm

Now he's betting on Europe, which I'm fine with, it's their problem anyway.
I sort of inferred from Trump's language on Ukraine from the beginning, that he always intended to 'force' Europe to take a stand for themselves.

The way Trump played it, Europe has no choice now but to defend themselves. This was not accidental. Trump knew what he was doing the whole time. Zelinsky's arrogance and his sense of entitlement played right into what Trump wanted all along.

Screw you! Go ask Europe for the billions which you obviously believe are 'owed' to you.

Zelinsky has no blackmail power with Trump, like he had 10X with Biden and Congress.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Zelensky Did More Damage to Ukraine's Cause Than Russia Ever Could
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2025, 06:45:58 pm »
Quote from: 240B on March 02, 2025, 06:42:25 pm
I sort of inferred from Trump's language on Ukraine from the beginning, that he always intended to 'force' Europe to take a stand for themselves.

The way Trump played it, Europe has no choice now but to defend themselves. This was not accidental. Trump knew what he was doing the whole time. Zelinsky's arrogance and his sense of entitlement played right into what Trump wanted all along.

Screw you! Go ask Europe for the billions which you obviously believe are 'owed' to you.

Zelinsky has no blackmail power with Trump, like he had 10X with Biden and Congress.

I thought about that as well, but the look of anger on Rubio's face indicated to me that this wasn't what Trump had planned. But then again, maybe Rubio figured out what Trump was doing and that's why he was so ticked????
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