Author Topic: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage  (Read 411 times)

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Online rangerrebew

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‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« on: January 25, 2025, 09:40:39 am »
‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
 
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January 24, 2025
 

Guest Post by Vijay Jayaraj
Fanciful dreams of green hydrogen powering the future have met reality. The cost of producing this much-hyped fuel will remain prohibitively high for decades to come, crushing hopes of its rapid adoption across industries.

Green hydrogen start-ups are shuttering operations, major projects are being shelved, and investors are retreating from what was once seen as the next frontier in “renewable” energy. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone whose attention to fundamentals has not been diverted by the extravagant claims of promoters.

I spent a year in Aberdeen, Scotland, a city that operates one of the world’s first hydrogen-powered double-decker bus fleets. The cost of a one-way ticket is among the highest in the country. It doesn’t take an economist to connect the exorbitant fares to the eye-popping energy costs of producing hydrogen, which priced out ordinary commuters. An Aberdeen family of four could travel cheaper in a cab than on the bus,

Welcome to the insane world of hydrogen.

Not-So-Green Hydrogen

https://climaterealism.com/2025/01/miracle-of-green-hydrogen-becomes-fading-mirage/
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2025, 11:27:50 am »
Any so-called 'renewables' is a scam.

Hydrogen is just one of them that is not understood as well so hasn't received as much criticism as other, more visible ones like solar, wind and ethanol.
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline Hoodat

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Re: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2025, 11:53:13 am »
'Green hydrogen' isn't a miracle.  It is simply a matter of converting electricity from one form to another.  Or in the case of the Scottish buses, converting electricity to combustible fuel.  The problem is that at every step of conversion, one is losing efficiency.

With 'green' hydrogen, electricity is first being created from some kinetic or photovoltaic source, with energy loss.  Next, that electricity is being used to split water, separating it into hydrogen and oxygen, again with energy loss.

The one achievement at this point is that you have now unlinked hydrogen with carbon-based fuels.  Instead of generating hydrogen by reforming methane, you have removed methane from the equation.  The problem though is that the methane method is much cheaper than the 'green' method.  The only possibility for success here is if the 'green' method becomes cheaper than methane.

Now that we have hydrogen, what can we do with it?  Well we can't store it.  Not very well, anyway.  No container can hold it for very long.  So, it must be used within days of generation.  There are two things that can be done with it.  Either use it as a combustible fuel in an internal combustion engine, or use it to generate electricity through a fuel cell.  The second option is more efficient than the first.  But one has now lost two steps of efficiency to get back to the starting point - electricity.

Green hydrogen works great in a college science lab.  But when it comes to consumers putting down real dollars to power their vehicles, homes, etc., it fails miserably.  The consumer is always going to demand the most utility for the last dollar spent.  And gasoline/diesel delivers.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2025, 12:04:37 pm »
'Green hydrogen' isn't a miracle.  It is simply a matter of converting electricity from one form to another.  Or in the case of the Scottish buses, converting electricity to combustible fuel.  The problem is that at every step of conversion, one is losing efficiency.

With 'green' hydrogen, electricity is first being created from some kinetic or photovoltaic source, with energy loss.  Next, that electricity is being used to split water, separating it into hydrogen and oxygen, again with energy loss.

The one achievement at this point is that you have now unlinked hydrogen with carbon-based fuels.  Instead of generating hydrogen by reforming methane, you have removed methane from the equation.  The problem though is that the methane method is much cheaper than the 'green' method.  The only possibility for success here is if the 'green' method becomes cheaper than methane.

Now that we have hydrogen, what can we do with it?  Well we can't store it.  Not very well, anyway.  No container can hold it for very long.  So, it must be used within days of generation.  There are two things that can be done with it.  Either use it as a combustible fuel in an internal combustion engine, or use it to generate electricity through a fuel cell.  The second option is more efficient than the first.  But one has now lost two steps of efficiency to get back to the starting point - electricity.

Green hydrogen works great in a college science lab.  But when it comes to consumers putting down real dollars to power their vehicles, homes, etc., it fails miserably.  The consumer is always going to demand the most utility for the last dollar spent.  And gasoline/diesel delivers.
Thanks for analysis.

There is a reason hydrocarbons are the best potential storage and energy source known.  God made it, and he knows what He is doing.  Man's doings to make energy will always be inferior
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2025, 12:11:47 pm »
They need to develop more hydropower instead of cutting it out.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: ‘Miracle’ of Green Hydrogen Becomes Fading Mirage
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2025, 04:06:17 pm »
I only worked with Hydrogen in my use of Flame Ionization chromatographs and gas detectors out on the rigs. It was a pain in the arse, not only because you had to make sure a tank was 'full' if it had been stored for any length of time (hydrogen will work its way through the molecules of the steel tank and escape), but would autoignite in a high pressure leak, with a very high temperature flame that would only be visible by the mirage created by the heat changing the index of refraction of the air (and paint blistering, etc.).

We dealt with it because we knew the hazards and acted appropriately, but frankly, thinking of: the average person self-servicing a vehicle fueled with H2?  **nononono* Being in an accident in a vehicle fueled by H2?  **nononono*

No thanks.

I have driven vehicles which ran on either propane or gasoline, and those 1/2 ton chevys had a range of close to 700 miles, which was great.  But even then, filling one up was not for everyone.
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