Trump on collision course with conservatives over debt limit

[corbe]

Trump on collision course with conservatives over debt limit

by Alexander Bolton - 12/30/24 6:00 AM ET

President-elect Trump is headed for a battle over the debt limit with conservative lawmakers who are demanding steep cuts to federal spending that will significantly complicate Trump’s ability to pass his agenda next year.

Thirty-eight House Republicans sent a warning to Trump last week by rejecting his demand to extend the nation’s borrowing authority for two years, casting doubt on Trump’s influence over GOP conservatives.

Conservatives now say Trump will need to agree to deep cuts in spending if he wants their support for raising the debt limit in 2025.

“We’re about 33 percent overdrawn. We bring in about $4.8 trillion [in revenue] and spend $6.8 trillion [per year], so you got to get about $2 trillion worth of spending down,” Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said.

Paul hailed the defeat of Trump’s plan to raise the debt limit as part of a stopgap government funding measure. He said it shows the leverage fiscal hawks will have over the White House next year.

He said there are blocs of conservatives in both chambers who will insist on matching a debt limit increase with big spending cuts.

<..snip..>

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5055449-trump-debt-limit-battle/

[Hoodat]

Pay attention, people.  The debt ceiling is the ONLY legal tool that Musk/Ramaswamy have in cutting back government.  And Trump opposes that.

Once again, it is Conservatives v. The Establishment.  And once again Trump sides with The Establishment.  "Drain the Swamp" is complete bullshit.

[DCPatriot]

"BZZZZZ....wrong again liver and onions breath!" - - - Johnny Carson as Carnac   

With the slimmest of margins in both Houses presently, President Trump has his eyes on the 2026 Mid-Term elections...doesn't want to be politically castrated...which historically has been the norm in my lifetime!

[Hoodat]

With the slimmest of margins in both Houses presently, President Trump has his eyes on the 2026 Mid-Term elections...doesn't want to be politically castrated...which historically has been the norm in my lifetime!

We are already being castrated by deficit spending.  How do you think Kamala Harris ended up with $1.5 billion in a matter of a few weeks?  It all came from the federal government.  Planned Parenthood alone received $2 billion in taxpayer money during Biden's term.  What do you think they did with that money?

The ONLY path to victory is to put an end to spending money we don't have.  Otherwise, this nation ends up on the ash heap of history just like the Roman Empire who couldn't manage their budget either.

[Free Vulcan]

All the debt limit is, is a forced dog-and-pony show every so many months where the Reps won't negotiate and all we get is a crap sandwich.

Screw the debt ceiling and just start cutting already to the limits of the law and Constitution. Much of the work needed to trim the Executive can be done without Congress.

[libertybele]

Pay attention, people.  The debt ceiling is the ONLY legal tool that Musk/Ramaswamy have in cutting back government.  And Trump opposes that.

Once again, it is Conservatives v. The Establishment.  And once again Trump sides with The Establishment.  "Drain the Swamp" is complete bullshit.

Abracadabra .... Watch and see....I'm trying to maintain a positive attitude about the incoming administration.

[mountaineer]

I saw the title (collision course!!!) and just knew it had to be from The Hill. 

[Hoodat]

All the debt is, is a forced dog-and-pony show every so many months where the Reps won't negotiate and all we get is a crap sandwich.

Screw the debt ceiling and just start cutting already to the limits of the law and Constitution. Much of the work needed to trim the Executive can be done without Congress.

Best case scenario - they don't raise the debt ceiling.  The Executive Branch is forced to live off the tax proceeds coming into the Treasury each week.  Members of Congress will now have to choose between getting paid on payday or handing out free shit to their true constituents - special interest groups.

[Free Vulcan]

Best case scenario - they don't raise the debt ceiling.  The Executive Branch is forced to live off the tax proceeds coming into the Treasury each week.  Members of Congress will now have to choose between getting paid on payday or handing out free shit to their true constituents - special interest groups.

Not a bad angle. Also a perfect excuse to start gutting the swamp subsidiary of the Executive branch.

[bilo]

We are already being castrated by deficit spending.  How do you think Kamala Harris ended up with $1.5 billion in a matter of a few weeks?  It all came from the federal government.  Planned Parenthood alone received $2 billion in taxpayer money during Biden's term.  What do you think they did with that money?

The ONLY path to victory is to put an end to spending money we don't have.  Otherwise, this nation ends up on the ash heap of history just like the Roman Empire who couldn't manage their budget either.

Your math is wrong.

If we eliminate all discretionary spending we still run a deficit. If we raise taxes to the level to make up the difference the economy will slow so much and unemployment will rise so much the Rat socialists will win huge majorities and you can bet the Republic will be no more.

The answer is a combination of cuts and incentives for business to manufacture their goods here.

[bilo]

All the debt is, is a forced dog-and-pony show every so many months where the Reps won't negotiate and all we get is a crap sandwich.

Screw the debt ceiling and just start cutting already to the limits of the law and Constitution. Much of the work needed to trim the Executive can be done without Congress.

 

I'm hopeful that is exactly what's going to happen. The debt ceiling fight is a manipulation of the freedom caucus by the establishment loyalists of both parties.

[Hoodat]

I'm hopeful that is exactly what's going to happen. The debt ceiling fight is a manipulation of the freedom caucus by the establishment loyalists of both parties.

The Freedom Caucus isn't being manipulated.  They are simply being out-voted.

But speaking of Establishment loyalists, why is Mr. 'Drain the Swamp' allying himself with them?

[Hoodat]

Your math is wrong.

Nothing wrong with the math.  Think of a wallet with money in it.  Each Sunday evening, the Treasury collects tax receipts and puts that money in the wallet.  On Monday, the Executive Branch can only spend money from that wallet.  If the wallet is empty, no money gets spent.

Spending is spending, no matter what you want to call it.  Discretionary, non-discretionary - it all comes from the same place.  And with a debt ceiling limit in place, it gives the Executive Branch the legal authority to cut spending.  All spending.  Sorry, I'm simply not buying into that baseless Swamp narrative about how spending can't be cut.  It's a lie.

[DCPatriot]

We are already being castrated by deficit spending.  How do you think Kamala Harris ended up with $1.5 billion in a matter of a few weeks?  It all came from the federal government.  Planned Parenthood alone received $2 billion in taxpayer money during Biden's term.  What do you think they did with that money?

The ONLY path to victory is to put an end to spending money we don't have. Otherwise, this nation ends up on the ash heap of history just like the Roman Empire who couldn't manage their budget either.

Your solutions only work/apply with an informed voter populace AND an objective, non-partisan media.

Just plain wrong to expect voters to swallow any 'Castor Oil' in terms of program cuts and still have them embrace the GOP solution you're advancing when they enter the voting booths.

[roamer_1]

Your solutions only work/apply with an informed voter populace AND an objective, non-partisan media.

Just plain wrong to expect voters to swallow any 'Castor Oil' in terms of program cuts and still have them embrace the GOP solution you're advancing when they enter the voting booths.

No... It WILL happen, one way or the other.

Responsible, even frugal, government,
Wiemar Republic,
or Venezuela.

You choose.

[Hoodat]

Your solutions only work/apply with an informed voter populace AND an objective, non-partisan media.

The plausibility of this solution working is complete independent of voter knowledge or media interference.  If the money's not there and there's no Fed to print up new dollars, then spending gets cut.

ust plain wrong to expect voters to swallow any 'Castor Oil' in terms of program cuts and still have them embrace the GOP solution you're advancing when they enter the voting booths.

The election is over.  But your continued embracement of the status quo is duly noted.  You gave this same excuse as a defense for $2 trillion deficits before the election.  And now you're already projecting to the next one.  We are not on the same side here.  I recognize deficit spending as this nation's greatest threat, while you consider spending cuts to be your own greatest threat.

[Hoodat]

No... It WILL happen, one way or the other.

Responsible, even frugal, government,
Wiemar Republic,
or Venezuela.

You choose.

Spot on.  If we continue along this path, the dollar becomes so worthless that it gets dropped as the world currency.  And when that happens, there will be such a flood of dollars pouring back into the US that a loaf of bread will cost $1000.  You think inflation is bad now?  Just wait.

At some point, we have to reverse the trend.  This nation has been running a deficit each and every year for the last 67 years.  It has got to stop.

[Hoodat]

[DCPatriot]

The plausibility of this solution working is complete independent of voter knowledge or media interference.  If the money's not there and there's no Fed to print up new dollars, then spending gets cut.


The election is over.  But your continued embracement of the status quo is duly noted.  You gave this same excuse as a defense for $2 trillion deficits before the election.  And now you're already projecting to the next one.  We are not on the same side here.  I recognize deficit spending as this nation's greatest threat, while you consider spending cuts to be your own greatest threat.

Not at all, @Hoodat

Your unwavering position puts winning elections out of reach...thereby being relegated to the bleacher seats.

You have to function in the real world arena, with a true say/voice in the outcome.

Voters aren't going to embrace what you're selling if they and their loved ones are suffering...at the same time being painted as "Extreme" by the opposition media.

[Timber Rattler]

With the slimmest of margins in both Houses presently, President Trump has his eyes on the 2026 Mid-Term elections...doesn't want to be politically castrated...which historically has been the norm in my lifetime![/size]

So that makes it OK to take the limit off the government credit card, just to win elections?  I seem to remember that we condemned that kind of thing when Democrats did it.

[Hoodat]

Not at all, @Hoodat

Your unwavering position puts winning elections out of reach...thereby being relegated to the bleacher seats.

You have to function in the real world arena, with a true say/voice in the outcome.

Voters aren't going to embrace what you're selling if they and their loved ones are suffering...at the same time being painted as "Extreme" by the opposition media.

Thank you for reciting the Democrat Party position of the last 40 years.

[jafo2010]

Alexander Bolten...

Conservatives now say Trump will need to agree to deep cuts in spending if he wants their support for raising the debt limit in 2025.

Conservative Republicans better demand the cuts now before increasing any debt limit.  If anything is true about Donald Trump, his word is not worth a good BM.  Today, the lying b*st*rd proudly announced that he supports the H1-b Visa Program.  He already committed to increase the numbers a few months before the November election with a handful of tech billionaires from Silicon Valley.

That means more USA citizens will be displaced from their jobs, some forced to train their replacements who come largely from India for half or less the salary and no benefits.  This is a violation of federal law by the way, not that Trump or any other stinking politician gives a hoot!!!

So, any of you have relatives in the tech field, you may just get to see their career ended and replaced by a low cost foreigner, expressly brought here to displace Americans.

NO ONE REPRESENTS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON ANY LONGER.

[Timber Rattler]

Thank you for reciting the Democrat Party position of the last 40 years.

Apparently that's OK now because Trump wants to do it.   

[Fishrrman]

I always enjoy threads like this, that contain the usual arguments from the usual suspects.

Today is December 30, 2024.
No one reading this reply today will live to see a balanced budget in their lifetime.

On the other hand, you MIGHT live to see "the debt" grow to 50 trillion, 70 trillion, 100 trillion.

No one will stop this, so long as the government of the United States is still run by The Constitution as it exists today.

Things will continue in the direction they're going, until they can't continue any more. Pretty simple.

ONLY THEN will steps be taken to correct things.
But, again, no one reading this reply today will LIKE those "steps" that are taken.
And the government that takes them may no longer be the Constitutional government we have presently.

You'll be wishing for the "good old days", like TODAY, with a 30 trillion deficit.
So it goes.

[Hoodat]

Apparently that's OK now because Trump wants to do it.   

This is the line we were fed before the election - that we needed to wait until after the election to talk about cutting spending.  Well, the election has come and gone.  But they're now telling us we need to wait until after the next election to talk about cutting spending.

[Hoodat]

Today is December 30, 2024.
No one reading this reply today will live to see a balanced budget in their lifetime.

Only through sheer cowardice.

[bilo]

The Freedom Caucus isn't being manipulated.  They are simply being out-voted.

But speaking of Establishment loyalists, why is Mr. 'Drain the Swamp' allying himself with them?

He has no alternative. Trump can't do everything he wants by himself.

[bilo]

Nothing wrong with the math.  Think of a wallet with money in it.  Each Sunday evening, the Treasury collects tax receipts and puts that money in the wallet.  On Monday, the Executive Branch can only spend money from that wallet.  If the wallet is empty, no money gets spent.

Spending is spending, no matter what you want to call it.  Discretionary, non-discretionary - it all comes from the same place.  And with a debt ceiling limit in place, it gives the Executive Branch the legal authority to cut spending.  All spending.  Sorry, I'm simply not buying into that baseless Swamp narrative about how spending can't be cut.  It's a lie.

Saying spending can't be cut is disingenuous. Of course spending can be cut, but it won't be enough. As I've said before if you cut all discretionary spending we still run a deficit.

Cuts have to be made, but even more important is growth. Govt has to be slowed to a rate lower than GDP and revenue increased. It's one of the reasons Trump is going to raise tariffs. He knows he can't raise taxes on Americans or businesses in the USA because it will slow growth.

[bilo]

Not at all, @Hoodat

Your unwavering position puts winning elections out of reach...thereby being relegated to the bleacher seats.

You have to function in the real world arena, with a true say/voice in the outcome.

Voters aren't going to embrace what you're selling if they and their loved ones are suffering...at the same time being painted as "Extreme" by the opposition media.

 

If we lock into the absolutist position nothing will happen. Politicians like being in office and they know voters will support them for saving, WIC, Food Stamps, Medicaid, VA, etc.

[bilo]

Conservative Republicans better demand the cuts now before increasing any debt limit.  If anything is true about Donald Trump, his word is not worth a good BM.  Today, the lying b*st*rd proudly announced that he supports the H1-b Visa Program.  He already committed to increase the numbers a few months before the November election with a handful of tech billionaires from Silicon Valley.

That means more USA citizens will be displaced from their jobs, some forced to train their replacements who come largely from India for half or less the salary and no benefits.  This is a violation of federal law by the way, not that Trump or any other stinking politician gives a hoot!!!

So, any of you have relatives in the tech field, you may just get to see their career ended and replaced by a low cost foreigner, expressly brought here to displace Americans.

NO ONE REPRESENTS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON ANY LONGER.

So I guess none of the posters who take your position have noticed who Trump has nominated for his cabinet, or their backgrounds. You might want to take a look at the Treasury, Commerce and OMB nominees.

Also, look at the DOGE people and their skill sets.

Cuts are coming, agencies will be eliminated and we will still be running a deficit for years. The big thing right now is to get on the right path through implementing the right policies.

Trump isn't even in office yet and posters are already giving up the ship.

[jafo2010]

bilo...

He has no alternative. Trump can't do everything he wants by himself.

The UGLY TRUTH, after Trump's announcement that he fully supports the H1-b Visa Program, and he has already promised tech billionaires he will increase the number of recipients from 1.6 million to what, 2 million???, if the Republicans are smart, they will tell Trump what they want, and give him nothing.  For if he gets his way, many of the Republicans will definitively lose in 2026 giving the majority to one or both houses of Congress back to the Democommies.

If ever there was a time to write the folks representing you in Congress, it is now.

This one aw-sh*t by Trump will cause the Republicans to lose their majority in one or both houses of Congress come 2026.  Guaranteed!!!!!!!  The majority of foreigners receiving the H1-b Visa are displacing USA citizens and receiving low wages. 

Trump's will only produce results with EOs.  He can forget Congress.  The reality is that the Senate is split 50/50, with three of the worst kind of RINOs voting with the Democommies, or not voting.

HE WILL END UP DOING EVERYTHING BY HIMSELF, AND HE WILL DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR 2026 WITH HIS MINDSET FOR THE H1-B VISA PROGRAM.

[Free Vulcan]

Saying spending can't be cut is disingenuous. Of course spending can be cut, but it won't be enough. As I've said before if you cut all discretionary spending we still run a deficit.

True. But this could be a golden opportunity if this drags out to a govt shutdown. We all remember them playing games the last few times by shutting down what they chose to for maximum effect. I don't see why that can't be done in reverse.

It will be a tight game managing the cash flow, and I don't know if it can be done, but use the shut down to gut everything you can down to the essentials and reform the structure of each department. From past experience they can do so without much of a way to stop it, but I'm not sure.

The point is to keep it all to the bureaucracy and not entitlements. It will panic the Rats when they realize their shutdown weapon is being used against them to cut their precious deep state, giving the GOP even more leverage. If they don't deal keep cutting and reorganizing and reforming.

That's how Trump and cabinet should play it.

[bilo]

True. But this could be a golden opportunity if this drags out to a govt shutdown. We all remember them playing games the last few times by shutting down what they chose to for maximum effect. I don't see why that can't be done in reverse.

It will be a tight game managing the cash flow, and I don't know if it can be done, but use the shut down to gut everything you can down to the essentials and reform the structure of each department. From past experience they can do so without much of a way to stop it, but I'm not sure.

The point is to keep it all to the bureaucracy and not entitlements. It will panic the Rats when they realize their shutdown weapon is being used against them to cut their precious deep state, giving the GOP even more leverage. If they don't deal keep cutting and reorganizing and reforming.

That's how Trump and cabinet should play it.

I agree with you on the cuts. I think the problem is if the govt is shut down does the Senate hold votes on Cabinet nominees?

[Hoodat]

If we lock into the absolutist position nothing will happen.

Nothing happening would actually be a good thing.  But that's not what we get.  Instead, we get more and more and more spending while Conservatives get demonized for opposing it.

Case in point, the bills that just passed last week.  'Doing nothing' in that case would have been simply passing a CR at current spending levels.  But that's not what happened.  Instead, we got another $110 billion in spending (i.e. another $110 billion in debt) above and beyond current spending levels.  And again, Conservatives were demonized for speaking out against that spending increase.

So help me understand here why you (and Trump) chose to defend another $110 billion piled upon our debt when we could have passed a simple CR with no additional spending.

[Free Vulcan]

I agree with you on the cuts. I think the problem is if the govt is shut down does the Senate hold votes on Cabinet nominees?

I mean really good point. I don't know. For that matter would they try to stop the inauguration on a ruse of lack of funds? I wouldn't put it past them.

[Hoodat]

Either the Senate meets and votes, or Trump gets every single one of his cabinet picks through recess appointments.  If they want to play the 'no funding' card, then cut off the auto-pay for their paychecks, and seat every last one of Trump's nominees, judges included.

[Free Vulcan]

Either the Senate meets and votes, or Trump gets every single one of his cabinet picks through recess appointments.  If they want to play the 'no funding' card, then cut off the auto-pay for their paychecks, and seat every last one of Trump's nominees, judges included.

Shame on me, forgot the Prez has the recess appointments leverage card to play. That should blunt the shenanigans.

[bilo]

I mean really good point. I don't know. For that matter would they try to stop the inauguration on a ruse of lack of funds? I wouldn't put it past them.

I wouldn't either.

It's very convenient how Yellen says we will reach the debt limit in two weeks. It wouldn't be a big surprise to see BLS revise downward employment numbers another 800,000 as well.

I think we are going to see one "crisis" after another for the next several months. Hopefully the Pubs won't fall for it like they did with the CR.

[bilo]

Either the Senate meets and votes, or Trump gets every single one of his cabinet picks through recess appointments.  If they want to play the 'no funding' card, then cut off the auto-pay for their paychecks, and seat every last one of Trump's nominees, judges included.

But don't the recess appointments only hold that position for 8 months?

Also, would the Senate claim they are in session but can't do anything until the debt crisis is resolved?

[Free Vulcan]

I wouldn't either.

It's very convenient how Yellen says we will reach the debt limit in two weeks. It wouldn't be a big surprise to see BLS revise downward employment numbers another 800,000 as well.

I think we are going to see one "crisis" after another for the next several months. Hopefully the Pubs won't fall for it like they did with the CR.

Now with Speaker Johnson's position in jeopardy, there might not be any kind of certification at all, an no President.

[bilo]

Now with Speaker Johnson's position in jeopardy, there might not be any kind of certification at all, an no President.

Just posted an article about that, Grassley would be the temporary POTUS until the election can be certified.

We would lose a lot of momentum, especially with all the negative economic news that is sure to suddenly pop up.

[Hoodat]

But don't the recess appointments only hold that position for 8 months?

That has nothing to do with the question at hand, which is will the debt spending crisis interfere with Trump getting his cabinet in place.  The answer is 'no'.  We can worry about recess appointments later.

Also, would the Senate claim they are in session but can't do anything until the debt crisis is resolved?

If they're in session, then they can vote.  They can't have it both ways.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Lucky for Trump (unlucky for me), fiscal conservatives are near extinct in DC.

I don't include the knucklehead Congressmen who find 'fiscal conservatism' when the opposite party occupies the White House.  When their guy is in the White House, they forget about 'fiscal conservatism'.

[Hoodat]

Unfortunately in this case, the Swamp and their allies (i.e. Trump and his supporters) will likely prevail in handing Conservatives another defeat.  And that will put us on track to surpass $39 trillion in debt by December.

[corbe]

   Elon and Vivek will soon be out of Favor with their proposals to Trump/Congress, just as David Stockman was the first time this was tried with Reagan. 

   We are in for a long hard slog.