The Founding Fathers Feared Foreign Influence—And Devised Protections Against It

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

https://www.history.com/news/foreign-influence-constitution-founding-fathers

The Founding Fathers had just broken free from one empire, and the idea that foreign power could influence their young democracy was a prominent source of anxiety.

[Bigun]

https://www.history.com/news/foreign-influence-constitution-founding-fathers

The Founding Fathers had just broken free from one empire, and the idea that foreign power could influence their young democracy was a prominent source of anxiety.

Can you show me a single document of our founding that contains the word "Democracy" @Weird Tolkienish Figure ?  I'll wait.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Can you show me a single document of our founding that contains the word "Democracy" @Weird Tolkienish Figure ?  I'll wait.

Probably not I'm going to guess. Not really arguing that. However, it's still an interesting debate. I think a nation can be both a Republic and a democracy at the same time, they really aren't in opposition to each other.

[Bigun]

Probably not I'm going to guess. Not really arguing that. However, it's still an interesting debate. I think a nation can be both a Republic and a democracy at the same time, they really aren't in opposition to each other.

Obviously untrue! There is a vast difference between them and many who have been led astray by the media here need to learn the difference.

"Communism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen."

–Leon Trotsky

[Kamaji]

Yeah, by "republic" the Founders obviously meant an autocratic tyranny.

[Bigun]

Yeah, by "republic" the Founders obviously meant an autocratic tyranny.

No! They meant a government constrained within the bounds of the constitution. Nothing tyrannical in that.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No! The meant a government constrained within the bounds of the constitution. Nothing tyrannical in that.

But there are still many democratic aspects of our Republic. I believe that technically a Republic is basically a government without a Monarchy or nobility.

And we're not an absolutely Democracy, the founders were rightly cautious about that.

[Kamaji]

Making government dependent on the consent of the governed is inherently democratic.  By definition.  It a democratic system is not the end result of a focus on the consent of the governed, then you end up with those farcical so-called “people’s republics” that socialists and communists like to decorate their authoritarianism with. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No! The meant a government constrained within the bounds of the constitution. Nothing tyrannical in that.

You don't think there is anything democratic about our government?

[Right_in_Virginia]

No! The meant a government constrained within the bounds of the constitution. Nothing tyrannical in that.

Exactly right @Bigun  Our Republic was founded on the principle of the rule of law (the constitution), not of men (mob rule).  The rule of law protects the freedoms and rights of the individual, including those in the minority --- while constraining those who seek to eliminate both.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Founding Fathers Feared Foreign Influence

They did.  But, what terrified them was tyranny and they created a system of government with redundancies to contain and stop it.  It was brilliant.

[DefiantMassRINO]

... Constitutional Federal Republic.  Not Democracy.  Founders feared the fickle mob.

US Constitution was written as an antithesis to European monarchies of the time - when England was ruled by German princes.

No fickle mobs.  No foreign influence.

A Constitutional Federal Republic ruled by male, land-owning, mercantile stakeholders.  Then some Amendments were added, and schools stopped teaching civics.

[Bigun]

You don't think there is anything democratic about our government?

Never said that did I? What I said is that we are NOT a Democracy, never have been, and I pray God, never will be.

[Bigun]

Exactly right @Bigun  Our Republic was founded on the principle of the rule of law (the constitution), not of men (mob rule).  The rule of law protects the freedoms and rights of the individual, including those in the minority --- while constraining those who seek to eliminate both.

 

[Bigun]

https://www.history.com/news/foreign-influence-constitution-founding-fathers

The Founding Fathers had just broken free from one empire, and the idea that foreign power could influence their young democracy Republic was a prominent source of anxiety.

As corrected above, that is a very true statement and we have suffered greatly for our failure to adhere to their recipe for preventing it.

[DefiantMassRINO]

America is being re-colonized by foreign interests.

[catfish1957]

Outside the earlier argument of semantics, our country has until late done a pretty good job of enforcing the Monroe Doctrine. 

Then came the past 3 POTUS, who have allowed the Chicoms to get a foothold into South America. And don't give me the economic parameter bullshit.  It's an invasion, and one that can't be stopped at this point.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Outside the earlier argument of semantics, our country has until late done a pretty good job of enforcing the Monroe Doctrine. 

Then came the past 3 POTUS, who have allowed the Chicoms to get a foothold into South America. And don't give me the economic parameter bullshit.  It's an invasion, and one that can't be stopped at this point.

Yes, it is just semantics.

[Bigun]

Yes, it is just semantics.

Nope! But you are free to continue believing that if you want.

[catfish1957]

Nope! But you are free to continue believing that if you want.

WTF are you talking about?  Unless I am asleep the topic was around foreign influence....  not a silly argument around what constitutes  " a republic" versus  "a democracy" .  Focus man.....

[DefiantMassRINO]

... ever since the Chi-coms handed the 1992 Clinton Presidential Camapign a paper bag full of cash. 

Accelerated after Chi-coms admitted to WTO and granted preferential trade status.

The United States needs to return to the Monroe Doctrine; move away from Wilsonian entanglement with Europe; and move away from the quagmire of the former British protectorates and mandates in the Middle East and the Near East.

[Bigun]

WTF are you talking about?  Unless I am asleep the topic was around foreign influence....  not a silly argument around what constitutes  " a republic" versus  "a democracy" .  Focus man.....

I am focused! The distinction is HUGHLY important in case you didn't already know that and I'm sick to death of every media outlet in the country's continual efforts to convince us that we are a democracy when nothing can be further from the truth! @catfish1957 

[catfish1957]

I am focused! The distinction is HUGHLY important in case you didn't already know that and I'm sick to death of every media outlet in the country's continual efforts to convince us that we are a democracy when nothing can be further from the truth! @catfish1957 

I'm with you....  But the media in general has failed 9th grade Civics at an alarming clip, and if we get caught up in the semantics of their stupidity, we'd never get down into the nitty gritty of the meat of the matter.

On the bright side, the worst of the perps, MSNBC, and CNN have lost half of their viewers since the election.  Their political idoicocracy is catching up to them, and I relish soon, when they become Home Shopping Networks.

[DefiantMassRINO]

New England town meeting is democracy (talk about fickle mobs).

The US Government is a Constitutional Federal Republic.  The President is selected by the Electoral College, not by popular vote.  The Electoral College was structured to represent the People and the States.

Now, let's get back to putting the "America" back in the United States of America.

[Bigun]

I'm with you....  But the media in general has failed 9th grade Civics at an alarming clip, and if we get caught up in the semantics of their stupidity, we'd never get down into the nitty gritty of the meat of the matter.

On the bright side, the worst of the perps, MSNBC, and CNN have lost half of their viewers since the election.  Their political idoicocracy is catching up to them, and I relish soon, when they become Home Shopping Networks.

The media is not concerned with 9th grade civics. They have an agenda and it has been ongoing for as long as I've been alive. The time to put an end to it has arrived.