Author Topic: Why Won’t Americans Buy Electric Vehicles? The List of Reasons is Growing  (Read 1035 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rangerrebew

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 176,960
Why Won’t Americans Buy Electric Vehicles? The List of Reasons is Growing

Doug McIntyre highlights several challenges that hinder the widespread adoption of electric vehicles (EVs). High costs, limited range, and insufficient charging infrastructure make potential buyers hesitant. Additionally, cold weather reduces battery efficiency, further shortening driving ranges. Vandalism at unmanned charging stations adds to the concerns, as damaged stations can leave drivers stranded. McIntyre emphasizes that..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/why-won-t-americans-buy-electric-vehicles-the-list-of-reasons-is-growing/vi-AA1oSdYd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=a72d01d626ee4ce789ef6618daaf638d&ei=143
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth.  George Washington - Farewell Address

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,277
  • Gender: Male
At 67, I don't have many more vehicles to buy, but rest assured.......  It will never be an EV.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61,107
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Not suitable for my applications, especially in this climate.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,530
A canister or set of canisters that can easily be swapped, or charged in place would be the way forward... The charged cans then become the commodity, in a way similar to pop bottles back in the day - an undamaged can would have a refund fee, and upon getting turned in, would undergo a testing regimen, and barring any internal wear/damage would be plugged into a charger to go around again.

Additionally, a user could own more batteries that could be charged and waiting at home, or sacrifice trunk space for additional distance, better performance, or perhaps tow a trailer for longer trips.

Yes, a cartridge style, ubiquitous rechargeable cell is the way forward  - And that would spawn an industry to run parallel to gas stations where the service of swapping cells would be accomplished. Each of those participating gas stations could become a charging facility for those cartridges... A subsidy could encourage adoption... And it wouldn't have to stand on its own - lending time for adoption and shakeout... And a ready distribution though already existing automotive system (with the addition of a charging station). And also a way for the industry to ease over from ICE to EV, with a chained systemic adoption.

In addition, the charge could take longer, the cartridge plugged into the charger could be smart, able to charge a little, or handle high voltage, and with the exception of a gas station monkey to visually inspect it and plug it into a bay, internals could be automatically diagnosed... With a supplier making a buck sponsoring the system and charging a flooring fee... All overseen by a government inspection service, no doubt...


See, Everybody gets a little vig. That's what will work. Maybe not that scenario exactly, but like that.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 01:15:37 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61,107
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
@roamer_1
I'm not so sure I'd want a pile of potential firebombs around the station or service bays If I was a gas station owner. If one of those cooks off in a charging area, all Hell (almost literally) could break loose.

Maybe as a separate facility, and I can see it working similar to the propane tank exchanges (Blue Rhino, etc.), but only as self-serve if the battery swap was idiot proof. (Considering how creatively stupid idiots can be, that would be a challenge.)

You'd need a full service attendant or two, just to check over the incoming exchange batteries, monitor charging, and help folks with swaps.

That would still take some serious advancements or changes in design, because current EV batteries weigh between 1000 and 2000 lbs. :shrug:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,530
@roamer_1
I'm not so sure I'd want a pile of potential firebombs around the station or service bays If I was a gas station owner. If one of those cooks off in a charging area, all Hell (almost literally) could break loose.

Maybe as a separate facility, and I can see it working similar to the propane tank exchanges (Blue Rhino, etc.), but only as self-serve if the battery swap was idiot proof. (Considering how creatively stupid idiots can be, that would be a challenge.)

You'd need a full service attendant or two, just to check over the incoming exchange batteries, monitor charging, and help folks with swaps.

That would still take some serious advancements or changes in design, because current EV batteries weigh between 1000 and 2000 lbs. :shrug:

They wouldn't be generally self-swap. the weight is too great, and the available surface area for cartridge access would be limiting:
Lets say there is a removable rocker panel that spans between the wheel wells along the side of the car, down low... What, four, maybe six cartridges down each side? Lets say 5, for ease... So 10 cartridges... 2000 total weight / 10 = 200 lb cartridge weight, in round, totally bar napkin terms.

And no small fete, handling them puppies. BUT, swapping in and out, with a forklift around, and a modded jack, purpose made, pretty doable in 15 minutes or so I'd say. That's approaching the fill rate for a ICE vehicle.

That is a doable thing.

Yes, it's volatile - But service stations operate with a whole lot of volatiles all the time. Who better?
And lets explore that... The only bus that is onboard the vehicle is the backbone bus that receives the cartridges... The rest of the heavy current busses are onboard each battery cartridge, out of the car and inspect-able on a regular basis at each recharge cycle - I don't know what that means precisely, but you would think it would be a better means of catching failure points before they happen - Far better than if it is buried inside the car till it finally goes.

And yes, stupid proof - But gas station attendant stupid-proof -  There's a whole lotta stuff already that way that works. Mo bedda than joe-homeowner stupid-proof... Not optimal, I know, but better.

Smart battery tech is pretty robust. You should be able to diagnose and replace a particular batt-pack in a cartridge before failure... If the pack is accessible and diagnosed. Of course, that would require a technician, but that can be built into general mechanical skill pretty easily. Servicing battery cartridges would be a thing. But a job system for that is a high-grade blue collar position, which is a good thing.

I dunno. Just kicking the idea around.
I ain't exactly against it, any more than I am against batt operated tools. I still have corded tools, and pneumatic tools hanging around for when the batts can't make do... But I tell you what, the batt operated stuff does the lion's share around here anymore.

And I am offended in the winter, when it is 20 below, and I have to drag cords all over hell's half acre... I am mad that I have to drag the cords, which translates to being mad at corded tools, not that the batt can't go.  :laugh:

Battery tools have replaced corded around here, and barring my current dilemma, certainly would have replaced pneumatics - I had been looking at 1/4, 3/8" battery impact gear for my shop.

In that same light, a jacked up electric golf cart may well solve my near-by transportation issues. I have one, even now. I also have a side by side that needs some work. Dunno which way that will break just yet. But that I am considering the golf cart should be noted.

So like I said, I ain't against it, proper. I'm alright with anything that works. I am just kickin around a way to make that system work, or work better than the thing that got shoved down our throats... THAT is what pissed me off.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 02:35:45 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,362
  • Gender: Male
I hear EV's don't do well in high water, which leaves me out.
(Plus, I work for a Petrochemical supply company.)

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61,107
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
They wouldn't be generally self-swap. the weight is too great, and the available surface area for cartridge access would be limiting:
Lets say there is a removable rocker panel that spans between the wheel wells along the side of the car, down low... What, four, maybe six cartridges down each side? Lets say 5, for ease... So 10 cartridges... 2000 total weight / 10 = 200 lb cartridge weight, in round, totally bar napkin terms.

And no small fete, handling them puppies. BUT, swapping in and out, with a forklift around, and a modded jack, purpose made, pretty doable in 15 minutes or so I'd say. That's approaching the fill rate for a ICE vehicle.

That is a doable thing.

Yes, it's volatile - But service stations operate with a whole lot of volatiles all the time. Who better?
And lets explore that... The only bus that is onboard the vehicle is the backbone bus that receives the cartridges... The rest of the heavy current busses are onboard each battery cartridge, out of the car and inspect-able on a regular basis at each recharge cycle - I don't know what that means precisely, but you would think it would be a better means of catching failure points before they happen - Far better than if it is buried inside the car till it finally goes.

And yes, stupid proof - But gas station attendant stupid-proof -  There's a whole lotta stuff already that way that works. Mo bedda than joe-homeowner stupid-proof... Not optimal, I know, but better.

Smart battery tech is pretty robust. You should be able to diagnose and replace a particular batt-pack in a cartridge before failure... If the pack is accessible and diagnosed. Of course, that would require a technician, but that can be built into general mechanical skill pretty easily. Servicing battery cartridges would be a thing. But a job system for that is a high-grade blue collar position, which is a good thing.

I dunno. Just kicking the idea around.
I ain't exactly against it, any more than I am against batt operated tools. I still have corded tools, and pneumatic tools hanging around for when the batts can't make do... But I tell you what, the batt operated stuff does the lion's share around here anymore.

And I am offended in the winter, when it is 20 below, and I have to drag cords all over hell's half acre... I am mad that I have to drag the cords, which translates to being mad at corded tools, not that the batt can't go.  :laugh:

Battery tools have replaced corded around here, and barring my current dilemma, certainly would have replaced pneumatics - I had been looking at 1/4, 3/8" battery impact gear for my shop.

In that same light, a jacked up electric golf cart may well solve my near-by transportation issues I have one, even now. I also have a side by side that needs some work. Dunno which way that will break just yet. But that I am considering the golf cart should be noted.

So like I said, I ain't against it, proper. I'm alright with anything that works. I am just kickin around a way to make that system work, or work better than the thing that got shoved down our throats... THAT is what pissed me off.
Well, starting with the fact that there will have to be some serious advancements in range and cold weather capabilities before I would consider one, I acknowledge that there are places where these could be driven (theoretically) year-round without the issues I generally face (mainly climate and range).
For those applications, they are fine. (One size does not fit all, as I am one to note.)

So, the question becomes one of how to get a charge back in those battery powered buggers faster, more cheaply, that would enable banks of batteries to be charged in lower demand hours to even out the pressure on the grid.
Modularizing the battery to make servicing bad modules and swapping components seems like a good idea to me, though the connectors would have to be designed to keep moisture out, even after a bunch of swaps. Corrosion and short circuits would be definite enemies to be avoided. I see five gallon buckets of dielectric silicone in someone's future. Imagine, however, a vehicle that could have the rear of the body lifted, not unlike the 'funny cars' of old, to expose the battery bay, and then doing the work with an overhead crane (even a robotic one programmed to sense the location of the vehicle and insert the battery without damage). One or two modules and done, lower the body, run a quick diagnostic check, tighten the fasteners, and done...

But no way am I a fan of this being shoved down our throats to the exclusion of all else. For people who claim the benefits of diversity, they don't seem to get that having more than one way to skin the proverbial cat works best.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,530
Well, starting with the fact that there will have to be some serious advancements in range and cold weather capabilities before I would consider one, I acknowledge that there are places where these could be driven (theoretically) year-round without the issues I generally face (mainly climate and range).
For those applications, they are fine. (One size does not fit all, as I am one to note.)

Sure - I can guarantee you I will have a mountain ready pickup truck till the day I die, and that truck will probably be gas... It might go to diesel - That could happen. But electric? Not in a million years. One trip up a mountain road would rattle that battery to pieces. Not gonna happen for that reason alone, not to mention weather, not to mention range.. There will always be that rig in my driveway.

But the grocery gitter? Do I care? Nah. Point a to point b... minivan capacity... probably fine inside of 25 miles... Can that be electric or maybe hybrid? Yeah, that might could be - Except they are way outside of my price range. I would never spend that kind of money on a car. But figuring a broken used market... if I can fix it... if it runs cheaper and longer than ICE? yeah, I'd do that. That could happen.

Quote
So, the question becomes one of how to get a charge back in those battery powered buggers faster, more cheaply, that would enable banks of batteries to be charged in lower demand hours to even out the pressure on the grid.
Modularizing the battery to make servicing bad modules and swapping components seems like a good idea to me, though the connectors would have to be designed to keep moisture out, even after a bunch of swaps. Corrosion and short circuits would be definite enemies to be avoided. I see five gallon buckets of dielectric silicone in someone's future. Imagine, however, a vehicle that could have the rear of the body lifted, not unlike the 'funny cars' of old, to expose the battery bay, and then doing the work with an overhead crane (even a robotic one programmed to sense the location of the vehicle and insert the battery without damage). One or two modules and done, lower the body, run a quick diagnostic check, tighten the fasteners, and done...


Or dump the whole package out of the bottom, pull the car out of the way ... Something like that... The servicing is super important, and within that, a fast replacement system rather than recharging onboard - It still should recharge onboard... Plug it in at home thing - but nobody is going to wait for an hour or more...

And what about out on the road? Sudden death of a cell, shorting your system... Pull out the cartridge (or whatever) and limp home, or maybe triple A can haul you something out. Serviceable, with super fast charging, or replaceable units.

Something like that.

Quote
But no way am I a fan of this being shoved down our throats to the exclusion of all else. For people who claim the benefits of diversity, they don't seem to get that having more than one way to skin the proverbial cat works best.

That's right. let the market prove it. Let the market develop the means. That is how new ideas come to the light. Not by way of government decree.  :beer:
« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 03:24:40 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,277
  • Gender: Male
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online berdie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,835
Why doesn't this American want to buy an EV?

Mechanical issues and does not suit my needs. He!!, the electrical grid gets iffy around here with extreme weather without the added stress of a million cars. And I'm not going to upgrade the electrical system on This Old House to support charging. I'll get a horse, lol.

And the number one reason...I don't want one! And I really don't like being forced to buy one by our elitest pols.