Electrification without the infrastructure

[rangerrebew]

Electrification without the infrastructure
07/26/2024 / By News Editors



As state and federal policies mandate the electrification of virtually all end uses to reduce carbon emissions from fossil fuels. For example, 18 states have adopted California’s Advanced Clear Car II rules requiring increasing percentages of new vehicle sales to be EVs, reaching 100% for the 2035 model year. In 2019, New York City enacted Local Law 97, which requires all residential buildings larger than 25,000 square feet to convert to electricity by 2035. Other states, such as New Jersey seek to convert all residential heating to electricity.

(Article by Jonathan Lesser republished from WattsUpWithThat.com)

Together, mandates for electric vehicles (EVs) and electrification of space and water heat will likely double electricity consumption and peak demand. Coupled with policies that mandate supplying the nation’s electricity with zero-emissions resources, notably intermittent wind and solar power, not only will electricity prices continue to increase but the ability to meet consumers’ increased demand will become more problematic.

One would assume that mandates requiring consumers to switch to electricity would recognize the need for the additional infrastructure needed to meet increased demand. One would be wrong. Not just the additional generating resources to replace the coal and natural gas plants being shuttered, but also the new transmission lines, transformers, and upgraded distribution lines that will be needed to handle the increased loads, especially when demand peaks, such as in the early evening hours.

 https://www.climate.news/2024-07-26-electrification-without-the-infrastructure.html

[Kamaji]

Electro-fascists are just that - fascists - and they can't wait for the inevitable shortages, because they will use preferential access to electricity as a means of controlling the population, and therefore the electorate.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Liberals do not comprehend supply-demand economic dynamics.  They believe the Government can create supply automagically and shape demand by mandate.

[Free Vulcan]

Electro-fascists are just that - fascists - and they can't wait for the inevitable shortages, because they will use preferential access to electricity as a means of controlling the population, and therefore the electorate.

Dude, that couldn't have been said more accurately.

Live in a Red state? No power for you!

[roamer_1]

Live in a Red state? No power for you!

Except all the big power generation, and refineries lie in red states... They'd play hell running us out of power up in here, with three major dams within spitting distance, and all the refineries east of the hump...

[Kamaji]

Except all the big power generation, and refineries lie in red states... They'd play hell running us out of power up in here, wiyh three major dams within spitting distance, and all the refineries east of the hump...

Federal control is quite easily exerted over those facilities.

[roamer_1]

Federal control is quite easily exerted over those facilities.

Not with our current governor, they're not.

[Kamaji]

Not with our current governor, they're not.

Yes, they are; your governor is nothing more than a figurehead when it comes to who can actually control those plants.  Power plants both directly engage in interstate commerce, and necessarily use the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, and therefore are subject to federal control. 

[roamer_1]

Yes, they are; your governor is nothing more than a figurehead when it comes to who can actually control those plants.  Power plants both directly engage in interstate commerce, and necessarily use the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, and therefore are subject to federal control.

No... The permission to put those dams on Montana ground came with guarantees.. That power is ours first. The extra can go interstate,

[Free Vulcan]

Except all the big power generation, and refineries lie in red states... They'd play hell running us out of power up in here, with three major dams within spitting distance, and all the refineries east of the hump...

And that's where it will get interesting, because the Rats will be desperate to keep their voting constituency alive, they will try to run roughshod over the law, and the States if they have any stones will say 'Nope'.

[roamer_1]

And that's where it will get interesting, because the Rats will be desperate to keep their voting constituency alive, they will try to run roughshod over the law, and the States if they have any stones will say 'Nope'.

That's right.

[Smokin Joe]

And that's where it will get interesting, because the Rats will be desperate to keep their voting constituency alive, they will try to run roughshod over the law, and the States if they have any stones will say 'Nope'.

I can easily see where if power exporting states are denied electricity for their own usage over someone else's "needs", that no one will be getting any. Freeze just one grandma to death for a lighted sign in NYC or some other city, folks might not take kindly to that.

[Free Vulcan]

I can easily see where if power exporting states are denied electricity for their own usage over someone else's "needs", that no one will be getting any. Freeze just one grandma to death for a lighted sign in NYC or some other city, folks might not take kindly to that.

I'm thinking too that logistically the grid really isn't set up to do that. Lines are only handle so much, and line loss in an older grid like ours limits the distance. They aren't going to be able to take power from Montana and shunt it to Chicago and make any kind of difference.

But they will try.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm thinking too that logistically the grid really isn't set up to do that. Lines are only handle so much, and line loss in an older grid like ours limits the distance. They aren't going to be able to take power from Montana and shunt it to Chicago and make any kind of difference.

But they will try.

Unfortunately the net effect will be to crash power generation in states where temperatures are definitely lethal in Winter, and it to places where they have burn barrels on the corners...while it lasts. Then no one will have it.

If I were Governor here, I'd push for looking out for ND first, then sending surplus elsewhere. We currently sell about half the electricity we produce to MT, SD, MN, Canada, even WY. But 55% of that is generated with coal. Shut that down, and we don't have enough for ourselves.

[Free Vulcan]

Unfortunately the net effect will be to crash power generation in states where temperatures are definitely lethal in Winter, and it to places where they have burn barrels on the corners...while it lasts. Then no one will have it.

If I were Governor here, I'd push for looking out for ND first, then sending surplus elsewhere. We currently sell about half the electricity we produce to MT, SD, MN, Canada, even WY. But 55% of that is generated with coal. Shut that down, and we don't have enough for ourselves.

The way I see it is if it ever comes to a head, the green curtain is going to be ripped off, and the blue state urban areas are going to realize that they have nothing more tangible than the old regulatory bluff-and-bully while the Red states and rural areas have the goods. They are so arrogant that they don't see from a logistical standpoint just how vulnerable they are.

I see the Red states at some point saying 'come and take it' and choosing their own and their neighbors first. There will be so much anarchy and chaos in the cities that no one on the Blue side will have extra resources to do anything about it, and will be so far outside the law at that point that no one would do their dirty work anyway.

[DefiantMassRINO]

No... The permission to put those dams on Montana ground came with guarantees.. That power is ours first. The extra can go interstate,

As demonstrated during the 2008/2009 Financial Crisis and the Covid-19 Crisis, the Federal Government can change it's rules anytime they want by any means they want during an "emergency", a "crisis", or a "disaster".

The Government, their agencies, and their agents cannot be trusted to abide by their written, verbal, or inferred commitments.

When the Government is concerned, America is no longer a nation of laws, contracts, compacts, agreements, etc. - "discretionary prosecutions", non-enforcement of US Immigration Law, etc.

[Smokin Joe]

As demonstrated during the 2008/2009 Financial Crisis and the Covid-19 Crisis, the Federal Government can change it's rules anytime they want by any means they want during an "emergency", a "crisis", or a "disaster".

The Government, their agencies, and their agents cannot be trusted to abide by their written, verbal, or inferred commitments.

When the Government is concerned, America is no longer a nation of laws, contracts, compacts, agreements, etc. - "discretionary prosecutions", non-enforcement of US Immigration Law, etc.

Klamath, Oregon, deeded water rights were ignored by the Feds: Klamath Project irrigators sought nearly $30 million in compensation from the United States government for the Bureau of Reclamation's curtailment of water deliveries during a severe drought in 2001. The water restrictions were made to meet Endangered Species Act requirements and fulfill tribal trust responsibilities. https://narf.org/cases/baley-v-us/

Quite a few farmers who relied on the water for irrigation were put out of business, and IIRC, The Nature Conservancy swooped in and bought the land for chump change.
To me, it represented environmental groups using lawfare against legitimate, deeded owners of the water rights to take advantage of the distress it would put those landowners under. It stunk on ice.

If they really want what you have, they will find a way to take it.

[roamer_1]

As demonstrated during the 2008/2009 Financial Crisis and the Covid-19 Crisis, the Federal Government can change it's rules anytime they want by any means they want during an "emergency", a "crisis", or a "disaster".

The Government, their agencies, and their agents cannot be trusted to abide by their written, verbal, or inferred commitments.

When the Government is concerned, America is no longer a nation of laws, contracts, compacts, agreements, etc. - "discretionary prosecutions", non-enforcement of US Immigration Law, etc.

When you have a governor, jealous of his powers, and ready to risk aaallll that federal money on the point of order, things go a different way. Sovereignty in this country comes from the bottom up, and the People, at least in Montana, appreciate a governor willing to protect our liberty.

[scottfreitas]

On this topic, I think a better conversation America needs to have is how and why we believe "Executive Orders" issued by the President have seemingly absolutely no limits.

FJB has mandated green energy crap and the elimination of gasoline powered cars and tractor trailers and you name it, only and solely through Executive Orders.

This is the same as saying the President has unlimited authority to just do whatever the Hell he wants. Shut down entire industries? Mandate people buy this, do that, own this, not own that, etc? No need for Congress or any legislation, just grab a pen and issue EO #987654321. Voila! Now every american must wear green Nike tennis shoes, not be allowed to use rubber duckies in a bathtub unless the ducky is equipped with a life preserver etc.


Meanwhile, in reality, George Washington created Executive Orders and specified, very carefully, they could only be employed by the President to apply within the narrow jurisdiction of Washington DC. Not outside DC, ever, anywhere, period.

EO's were also intended to be used only to address federal employees, in regards to official duties.

So how did we go from THAt to 2024, wheriein supposedly FJB controls and owns all property in the entire US, and can tell everyone what to do with it and why and how and when, every time he feels like it???


And it's not even a campaign issue.

As if Americans couldn't care less if their President is allowed to use EO's to do whatever he wants to them and their property, any time he feels like it. No warning, no limits, just grab a pen.

Why is this allowed to go on???