Author Topic: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships  (Read 998 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
Story by Peter Suciu • 1h


© Provided by National Interest

Summary and Key Points: During the RIMPAC 2024 exercise, a U.S. Air Force B-2 Spirit bomber successfully sank the ex-USS Dubuque using GPS-guided bombs, demonstrating the bomber's capability to engage maritime targets. This SINKEX event, part of a larger live-fire exercise involving multiple nations, showcased the effectiveness of coordinated attacks and various weapon systems.
 
-A second SINKEX saw the sinking of the ex-USS Tarawa, highlighting the use of the Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM).

-These exercises provided valuable data on weapon effectiveness against large warships and underscored the importance of joint force flexibility in neutralizing maritime threats.
 
An American B-2 Spirit Bomber Just Sank a Warship

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-b-2-bomber-has-a-new-trick-up-its-sleeve-sinking-naval-warships/ar-BB1qC5t5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1fd29b9236c64c13b43aede0dc09fdf3&ei=49
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth.  George Washington - Farewell Address

Offline rangerrebew

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2024, 10:00:33 am »
With Bones coming out of retirement, it would seem the US is committed to big, slow aircraft instead of fast jets with cutting edge weapons.
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth.  George Washington - Farewell Address

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2024, 11:37:36 pm »
With Bones coming out of retirement, it would seem the US is committed to big, slow aircraft instead of fast jets with cutting edge weapons.
Either that or the plan is to use stealth to clear the way, and then go in and pound them...
Who would have thought being a BUFF mechanic could be a long career option?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2024, 01:15:04 am »
Using bombers to sink warships?  That didn't work well during World War II.

 ////00000////

How about using guided icebergs?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2024, 02:25:03 am »
Using bombers to sink warships?  That didn't work well during World War II.

 ////00000////

How about using guided icebergs?
Well, the Tirpitz, the Japanese carriers at Midway, American Battleships at Pearl Harbor, the Bismarck (disabled by a torpedo from a biplane), and the Italian Battle fleet at Taranto (same pesky biplanes did that one as jammed the Bismarck's Rudder) might belie that line of thinking.
That does not count the countless smaller Japanese coastal vessels sank in the Pacific by air action.

None of the above had stealth or precision guided munitions, either.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2024, 12:21:15 pm »
The Japanese carriers were sunk at Midway by Douglas Dauntless Dive Bombers, not B-25's nor B-17's.

Bismark and Taranto were not carried out by Avro-Lancaster bombers.

The Tirpitz was sunk by an Avro-Lancatser bomber after it was damaged by a mini-submarine.

In the Falklands War, the HMS Sheffield was sunk by an Exocet missile launched from an Argentine fighter jet.

I may be taking the term "bomber" too literally.  Many air platforms originally designed for strategic bombing, B-52 and B1-B Lancer, have found second-lives as long-range smart munitions (guided bombs, cruise missiles) delivery platforms.

A B-2 Stealth Bomber could conceivably evade enemy naval radar sufficiently to deliver an anti-ship missile at closer range than other air platforms.

Well, the Tirpitz, the Japanese carriers at Midway, American Battleships at Pearl Harbor, the Bismarck (disabled by a torpedo from a biplane), and the Italian Battle fleet at Taranto (same pesky biplanes did that one as jammed the Bismarck's Rudder) might belie that line of thinking.
That does not count the countless smaller Japanese coastal vessels sank in the Pacific by air action.

None of the above had stealth or precision guided munitions, either.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 12:22:06 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2024, 01:01:41 pm »
The Japanese carriers were sunk at Midway by Douglas Dauntless Dive Bombers, not B-25's nor B-17's.

 ...and they were dropping BOMBS! That makes them bombers.

Quote
Bismark and Taranto were not carried out by Avro-Lancaster bombers.
Nor wellingtons nor Halifaxes nor Mosquitoes...
Nor are Lancaster bombers biplanes.

They were hit by torpedoes dropped from Fairey Swordfish torpedo BOMBERS.
Quote
The Tirpitz was sunk by an Avro-Lancatser bomber after it was damaged by a mini-submarine.
Actually, three Tallboy bombs (which took three Lancasters to deliver).

Quote

In the Falklands War, the HMS Sheffield was sunk by an Exocet missile launched from an Argentine fighter jet.


I hadn't brought that up, but it was the first ship sunk with a cruise missile. That was a game changer.
Quote
I may be taking the term "bomber" too literally.  Many air platforms originally designed for strategic bombing, B-52 and B1-B Lancer, have found second-lives as smart munitions (guided bombs, cruise missiles) delivery platforms.

A B-2 Stealth Bomber could conceivably evade enemy naval radar sufficiently to deliver an anti-ship missile at closer range than other air platforms.

This goes back to Billy Mitchell: no matter how you slice and wrap it, those vessels were all sunk by aircraft-delivered weapons.

Missiles and aircraft delivered weapons are the threat from above, and will remain so.
(That doesn't include mines, naval (as opposed to air delivered) torpedoes, and submarine/drone threats).
I don't see that changing, as those weapons now far outrange the guns of even the Iowa Class, and at nearly a million a shot, the Zumwalt railgun just isn't going to show. (maybe if there was a nuclear munition that could survive the g's of launch).

Semantically, anything that drops a bomb is a "bomber", not just the B-17s, B-24s, b-29s and other generally level flight delivery systems. The JU-87 was a notorious (dive) bomber that paved the way for the blitzkreig that steamrolled Europe, but for all their reliance on air assets, the Germans built only one viable 4 engine heavy bomber, actually adapted from the FW200, primarily a passenger aircraft, and only used in a naval role to limited success to drop mines. the Japanese had the G-3M "Nell" and G4 M "Betty" medium bombers:
Quote
Nevertheless, the G4M would become the Navy's primary land-based bomber. It is the most widely produced and most famous bomber operated by the Japanese during World War II and it served in nearly all battles during the Pacific War.[2][3] Attacks by G4M and G3M bombers resulted in the sinking of the Royal Navy battleship HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse, the first time capital ships actively defending themselves were sunk solely by air power while in the open sea. G4Ms and G3Ms are also credited with sinking the heavy cruiser USS Chicago during the Battle of Rennell Island.
These were primarily used as land based bombers, and (to my surprise) there were over 2400 built. Perhaps not so surprising, as they did not have any armor for crews nor self-sealing fuel tanks and were apparently easy to set ablaze.

We can argue semantics on 'bombers', but I think the naval warfare of the future is going to involve a host of different delivery systems. Whether high flying stealth platforms delivering precision guided munitions, submersible unmanned vehicles, cruise or hypersonic missiles, glide bombs, 'sleeper' mines, or even direct gunfire (the least likely, but still possible), being a surface combatant is going to be interesting.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 01:05:35 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2024, 01:15:15 pm »
Using bombers to sink warships?  That didn't work well during World War II.
...

SBD = Scout Bomber, Douglas

TBF/M = Torpedo Bomber, Grumman/GM

SB2C = Scout Bomber, Curtis, second model

Explanation needed?

Even the obsolescent TBD (Torpedo Bomber, Douglas) did rather well against light carrier Shoho.

Battle of the Bismarck Sea ... explanation needed?

Fast-forwarding to modern times, B-52s and other bombers carry various laser and satellite guided bombs, cruise missiles, and anti-ship missiles. Explanation needed?
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If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline MeganC

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2024, 01:25:40 pm »
With Bones coming out of retirement, it would seem the US is committed to big, slow aircraft instead of fast jets with cutting edge weapons.

It was just one B-1 that was taken from storage and returned to service after another B-1 crashed in January.
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: The B-2 Bomber Has a New Trick Up Its Sleeve: Sinking Naval Warships
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2024, 01:34:10 pm »
...
Semantically, anything that drops a bomb is a "bomber", not just the B-17s, B-24s, b-29s and other generally level flight delivery systems. The JU-87 was a notorious (dive) bomber that paved the way for the blitzkreig that steamrolled Europe, but for all their reliance on air assets, the Germans built only one viable 4 engine heavy bomber, actually adapted from the FW200, primarily a passenger aircraft, and only used in a naval role to limited success to drop mines. the Japanese had the G-3M "Nell" and G4 M "Betty" medium bombers:  These were primarily used as land based bombers, and (to my surprise) there were over 2400 built. Perhaps not so surprising, as they did not have any armor for crews nor self-sealing fuel tanks and were apparently easy to set ablaze.

Quote
Nevertheless, the G4M would become the Navy's primary land-based bomber. It is the most widely produced and most famous bomber operated by the Japanese during World War II and it served in nearly all battles during the Pacific War.[2][3] Attacks by G4M and G3M bombers resulted in the sinking of the Royal Navy battleship HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse, the first time capital ships actively defending themselves were sunk solely by air power while in the open sea. G4Ms and G3Ms are also credited with sinking the heavy cruiser USS Chicago during the Battle of Rennell Island.

We can argue semantics on 'bombers', but I think the naval warfare of the future is going to involve a host of different delivery systems. Whether high flying stealth platforms delivering precision guided munitions, submersible unmanned vehicles, cruise or hypersonic missiles, glide bombs, 'sleeper' mines, or even direct gunfire (the least likely, but still possible), being a surface combatant is going to be interesting.

G4Ms also hit, crippled, and forced the scuttling of seaplane tender and aircraft ferry, AV-3, USS Langley (formerly CV-1, the USN's first aircraft carrier. The oiler that rescued Langley's crew, USS Pecos was sunk by planes from Soryu and Kaga, though I have not heard whether they were dive bombers or torpedo bombers. At the Battle of the Coral Sea, oiler USS Neosho was sunk by dive bombers.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 01:35:04 pm by PeteS in CA »
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.