The Nationwide 500,000 EV Charger Charade

[rangerrebew]

The Nationwide 500,000 EV Charger Charade
9 hours ago Guest Blogger 
By Geoffrey Pohanka

The word charade has several meanings, and including an act or event that is clearly false (Cambridge Dictionary), something done just for show (Vocabulary.com), or a situation in which people pretend that something is true when it clearly is not (Oxford Leaner’s Dictionary).

The charade I refers to is President Biden’s $7.5 billion dollar investment to install 500,000 electric charging stations along America’s highways by 2030. A reliable and convenient public EV charging infrastructure is critical to achieve the President’s goal of meeting the recent EPA CO2 emission regulation that require nearly 72% of U.S. new light vehicle sales to be fully electric or plug-in hybrid by 2032. Without diving deeper into the announcement, one would likely assume that $7.5 billion is sufficient to construct the 500,000 charging stations, one every 50 miles along the nation’s highways.

To identify the charade, one must first, look at the math: 500,000 charging stations, each with a minimum of four chargers, accomplished with an investment of $7.5 billion dollars. But that is only $15,000 per charging station, installed. A single high capacity charger can cost $100,000 or more, and most stations have multiple chargers. We are now in the second year of the program and only seven stations have been opened so far. At this rate, it will require thousands of years to build all 500,000 charging stations, assuming there are sufficient funds to do so.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/07/06/the-nationwide-500000-ev-charger-charade/

[banddag]

A major chain gas station is installing 12-15 chargers a few miles from my house and I live n a semi rural area.

2nd quarter 2024 EV sales broke records. ICE sales down 5% same perior.

Tesla (down slightly but beat ws estimates)   Ford, GM, Rivian, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Mazda all had record EV sales or near record sales.  2024 is the highest EV sales ever so far accounting for 10% of all new US cars sold.
So much for no one wanting them.

Ev's have become  a political issue  which is dumb.

https://insideevs.com/news/725308/toyota-us-plugin-car-sales-2024q2/

[DB]

Ev's have become  a political issue  which is dumb.

It is a political issue because government is taxing people and subsidizing favored groups essentially creating winners and losers at my expense. That by definition is political. If you're not smart enough to understand that then that makes you the dumb one.

[banddag]

It is a political issue because government is taxing people and subsidizing favored groups essentially creating winners and losers at my expense. That by definition is political. If you're not smart enough to understand that then that makes you the dumb one.

Large corporations control every aspect of law in the US. Why big box stores stayed open during covid but mom and pops had to close.

The car co's want EV's because they take a 1/3 of labor to produce and 1/2 the parts. The GM ceo even said so.  This was also one of the main reasons of the large strike a few months back- the issue of EV's and how it affects union membership.

A Vietnamese co is making  a low cost , long range , quality like a Tesla, EV in N. Carolina. I believe the factory is under construction.  It is going to decimate the US ICE car companies.
If you really think the politicians in this country control the agenda YOU ARE THE DUMB ONE.  Companies and elites/billionaires do not give billions in donations for nothing.
A friend of mine  i(was) a council member for a medium sized city. The local business and wealthy control EVERYTHING via donations and power that happened in his city other than dog catcher and such. He was told by local business leaders his own business would be destroyed if he did not vote a certain way. Why he is no longer a council member.

[Kamaji]

More bullshit propaganda about EVs.  From a louse who cannot even explain where all of the necessary electricity is going to come from, nor where the necessary lithium or cobalt will come from - other than from strip mines and child slavery.

[DB]

Large corporations control every aspect of law in the US. Why big box stores stayed open during covid but mom and pops had to close.

The car co's want EV's because they take a 1/3 of labor to produce and 1/2 the parts. The GM ceo even said so.  This was also one of the main reasons of the large strike a few months back- the issue of EV's and how it affects union membership.

A Vietnamese co is making  a low cost , long range , quality like a Tesla, EV in N. Carolina. I believe the factory is under construction.  It is going to decimate the US ICE car companies.
If you really think the politicians in this country control the agenda YOU ARE THE DUMB ONE.  Companies and elites/billionaires do not give billions in donations for nothing.
A friend of mine  i(was) a council member for a medium sized city. The local business and wealthy control EVERYTHING via donations and power that happened in his city other than dog catcher and such. He was told by local business leaders his own business would be destroyed if he did not vote a certain way. Why he is no longer a council member.

Yet they didn't appear until they were subsidized by you and me. You're the one wondering why EVs became political, well duh.

It doesn't really matter what the car companies want or don't want. It is what their customers want that ultimately matters. Provide it or go out of business.

We don't suffer fools here. Carry on...

[Kamaji]

Yet they didn't appear until they were subsidized by you and me. You're the one wondering why EVs became political, well duh.

It doesn't really matter what the car companies want or don't want. It is what their customers want that ultimately matters. Provide it or go out of business.

We don't suffer fools here. Carry on...

[banddag]

More bullshit propaganda about EVs.  From a louse who cannot even explain where all of the necessary electricity is going to come from, nor where the necessary lithium or cobalt will come from - other than from strip mines and child slavery.

Where are the blackouts I was told would happen for the last 3 years due to ev's? You do know much of coal is strip mined? You do know CA this year is producing so much electricity from a combo of solar and traditional sources they have to  sell it to other states or the people electric bill would be in the negative. The grid will be fine.

Lithium is in abundance.  Huge deposits are being found every year all around the world.

Colbalt is mined by children. Cobalt is also found in your laptop, phone, ICE car, Tv and your wife's Double D cell Mandingo sized vibrator. I do not see you giving up those

There are measure right now being adopted to ban children working in the cobalt mines. Africa and China know it is a problem.

[banddag]

Yet they didn't appear until they were subsidized by you and me. You're the one wondering why EVs became political, well duh.

It doesn't really matter what the car companies want or don't want. It is what their customers want that ultimately matters. Provide it or go out of business.

We don't suffer fools here. Carry on...

Your food is subsidized. The two largest chip plants being built in the US-One in Texas or Az, the other in Columbus Ohio are being built with the $52 billion chips act.
I told you before why ev's need to be subsidized. it is because China, S. Korea, Vietnam etc heavily subsidize their own EV industry and if we do not our US companies will be at a disadvantage.
If you own a widget company and you are competing with another widget company that has 1/4 of it's expenses paid by the gov't you will soon go out of business.

[Kamaji]

Where are the blackouts I was told would happen for the last 3 years due to ev's? You do know much of coal is strip mined? You do know CA this year is producing so much electricity from a combo of solar and traditional sources they have to  sell it to other states or the people electric bill would be in the negative. The grid will be fine.

Lithium is in abundance.  Huge deposits are being found every year all around the world.

Colbalt is mined by children. Cobalt is also found in your laptop, phone, ICE car, Tv and your wife's Double D cell Mandingo sized vibrator. I do not see you giving up those

There are measure right now being adopted to ban children working in the cobalt mines. Africa and China know it is a problem.

Where is all the additional electricity going to come from to support an all-EV vehicle fleet?

Lithium mines and lithium mining make coal mining - strip mining - look positively eco-friendly by comparison.

As for cobalt in my devices - trace amounts - so I'm a bad oldie, not a wise newbie like you.  The only one hoist on that petard is you, who have some cultish need to persuade everyone that EVs are a moral imperative.

If EVs were better than ICEs, there would be absolutely no need to provide any sort of subsidies for them.  They would be automatically adopted by simple market forces, the same way that ICEs themselves were originally adopted over horses, notwithstanding that at the beginning there was a massive horse-based infrastructure and no ICE infrastructure.

The fact that this has not happened is necessarily proof that EVs are inferior to ICE vehicles.

[DB]

Your food is subsidized. The two largest chip plants being built in the US-One in Texas or Az, the other in Columbus Ohio are being built with the $52 billion chips act.
I told you before why ev's need to be subsidized. it is because China, S. Korea, Vietnam etc heavily subsidize their own EV industry and if we do not our US companies will be at a disadvantage.
If you own a widget company and you are competing with another widget company that has 1/4 of it's expenses paid by the gov't you will soon go out of business.

You're rehashing what's already been posted months ago. The only reason the chip industry is recently being subsidized is to move manufacturing out of Taiwan ASAP so that China can't instantly shutdown the supply chain, which they are threatening to do, causing a national disaster. But you already knew that.

You said essentially all business is subsidized and provided links that didn't say what you claimed they did. You talk about being a big property owner/manager while using it to cheat on your taxes, yet you must of have inherited much of it because you have no idea how business or capital gains taxes actually work.

Keep spewing forth... It just further exposes who and what you are...

[DB]

Where is all the additional electricity going to come from to support an all-EV vehicle fleet?

Lithium mines and lithium mining make coal mining - strip mining - look positively eco-friendly by comparison.

As for cobalt in my devices - trace amounts - so I'm a bad oldie, not a wise newbie like you.  The only one hoist on that petard is you, who have some cultish need to persuade everyone that EVs are a moral imperative.

If EVs were better than ICEs, there would be absolutely no need to provide any sort of subsidies for them.  They would be automatically adopted by simple market forces, the same way that ICEs themselves were originally adopted over horses, notwithstanding that at the beginning there was a massive horse-based infrastructure and no ICE infrastructure.

The fact that this has not happened is necessarily proof that EVs are inferior to ICE vehicles.

Even funnier is they are so great that he doesn't even own one...

[Kamaji]

Even funnier is they are so great that he doesn't even own one...

What a f**king hypocrite.

[banddag]

Where is all the additional electricity going to come from to support an all-EV vehicle fleet?

Bill Gates is pushing nuclear and he has bipartisan support. Ev's will not happen overnight. There will be a gradual progression to them. Our electrical supply will increase each year as new plants are being built, more solar etc.
Private home builder Toll Brothers say 30% of their new homes are incorporating solar. Again I was told 2-3 years ago ev's were going to lead to black outs  that summer 2022 2023. never happened. We have a record heat wave right  now. and record ev sales. Where are the blackouts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FSVg6heBiE

[banddag]

Even funnier is they are so great that he doesn't even own one...

I am going to buy a Toyota EV this year or early next.  You can be for something  or push a certain view point and not own one. Does not make you a hypocrite

[Hoodat]

Ev's have become  a political issue  which is dumb.

@banddag

They've become a political issue because leftists such as yourself demand it be one.  Eliminate subsidies, and the political aspect disappears.

[banddag]

@banddag

They've become a political issue because leftists such as yourself demand it be one.  Eliminate subsidies, and the political aspect disappears.

You all stuff your fat faces with US Ag products every single day that are subsidized by the US gov't but crickets
And you folks talk about hypocrisy. LMAO.   
Plant your own food, raise a cow and you can then shake your fist as subsidies.

[libertybele]

Bill Gates is pushing nuclear and he has bipartisan support. Ev's will not happen overnight. There will be a gradual progression to them. Our electrical supply will increase each year as new plants are being built, more solar etc.
Private home builder Toll Brothers say 30% of their new homes are incorporating solar. Again I was told 2-3 years ago ev's were going to lead to black outs  that summer 2022 2023. never happened. We have a record heat wave right  now. and record ev sales. Where are the blackouts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FSVg6heBiE

Bill Gates. Enough said. 

[Kamaji]

Bill Gates is pushing nuclear and he has bipartisan support. Ev's will not happen overnight. There will be a gradual progression to them. Our electrical supply will increase each year as new plants are being built, more solar etc.
Private home builder Toll Brothers say 30% of their new homes are incorporating solar. Again I was told 2-3 years ago ev's were going to lead to black outs  that summer 2022 2023. never happened. We have a record heat wave right  now. and record ev sales. Where are the blackouts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FSVg6heBiE

Yeah, right. 

[Hoodat]

You all stuff your fat faces with US Ag products every single day that are subsidized by the US gov't but crickets

I've been complaining about ag subsidies my whole life.  Sugar and ethanol included.  All of them are political.  All of them are wrong.  Capisce?

Now, let's get back to hypocrisy here.  You are the one who is politicizing EVs, and you are the one asking they not be politicized.  Again, end the subsidies, and there will no longer be any politicization.  It's that simple.

I don't give a damn about anyone driving an EV.  Just don't force me to pay for any part of it.

[Hoodat]

Bill Gates is pushing nuclear .  .  .

If Bill Gates was pushing nuclear, then he would be building nuclear plants with all that money he has.  But he's not.

[Kamaji]

I've been complaining about ag subsidies my whole life.  Sugar and ethanol included.  All of them are political.  All of them are wrong.  Capisce?

Now, let's get back to hypocrisy here.  You are the one who is politicizing EVs, and you are the one asking they not be politicized.  Again, end the subsidies, and there will no longer be any politicization.  It's that simple.

I don't give a damn about anyone driving an EV.  Just don't force me to pay for any part of it.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Lithium mines and lithium mining make coal mining - strip mining - look positively eco-friendly by comparison.

Strip mining is only one way lithium can be obtained 

It is as easy as simply handling the wastewater already produced by oil and gas wells.

Been done for years in California and will undoubtedly be accomplished in the largest gas basin in the US.

Exxon is initiating its own project using wells in Arkansas which will leach Lithium directly from a lithium-rich formation.

It is the same process used in uranium extraction for many years by cycling injected water into a radioactive formation to extract uranium.

A Vast, Untapped Source of Lithium Has Just Been Found in The US
ENVIRONMENT
18 May 2024
ByCARLY CASSELLA

Almost two centuries after California's gold rush, the United States is on the brink of a lithium rush. As demand for the material skyrockets, government geologists are rushing to figure out where the precious element is hiding.

In September 2023, scientists funded by a mining company reported finding what could be the largest deposit of lithium in an ancient US supervolcano. Now public researchers on the other side of the country have uncovered another untapped reservoir – one that could cover nearly half the nation's lithium demands.

It's hiding in wastewater from Pennsylvania's gas fracking industry.

Lithium is arguably the most important element in the nation's renewable energy transition – the material of choice for electric vehicle batteries. And yet, there is but one large-scale lithium mine in the US, meaning for the moment the country has to import what it needs.

Officials at the US Department of Energy are desperate to change that. By 2030, they want all lithium produced domestically.

Expanding America's lithium industry, however, is highly controversial, as mining can destroy natural environments, leach toxic chemicals, and intrude on sacred Indigenous land.

At the same time, however, lithium-ion batteries are considered a crucial technology in the world's transition to renewable energy, storing electricity generated by the wind and the Sun. Finding a source of lithium that doesn't cause more environmental destruction than necessary is key, but a clean solution is complicated.

Pennsylvania sits on a vein of sedimentary rock known as the Marcellus Shale, which is rich in natural gas. The geological foundation was deposited almost 400 million years ago by volcanic activity, and it contains lithium from volcanic ash.

Over vast stretches of time, deep groundwater has dissolved the lithium in these rocks, essentially "mining the subsurface", according to Justin Mackey, a researcher at the National Energy Technology Laboratory in Pennsylvania.

Mackey and his colleagues have now found that when wastewater is dredged up from the deep by fracking activities, it contains an astonishing amount of lithium.

"We just didn't know how much was in there," says Mackey.

Because of its location, Pennsylvania is a leading state in controversial fracking activities, which have spurred numerous environmental and health concerns.

Fracking works by drilling an L-shape into the earth so that water can be pumped downward. This forces deeper substances, including gas, out into the open.

"Wastewater from oil and gas is a burgeoning issue. Right now, it's just minimally treated and reinjected," says Mackey.

Such practices could squander precious lithium. As this new study shows, in properly measuring lithium reserves in fracking wastewater, there could be another way to put the waste to good use.

The regional analysis is based on data from oil and gas companies, which report the elements found in their wastewater to government officials. Mackey and his colleagues considered data collected from 2012 to 2023 from the wastewater of 515 wells in Pennsylvania.

Their results suggest that the Marcellus Shale "has the capacity to provide significant lithium yields for the foreseeable future" – as long as fracking continues, that is.

If scientists can extract even a conservative amount of lithium from fracking wastewater in the state, they calculate it could meet more than 30 percent of the current US demand.

That sounds really promising, but the potential environmental impact of extracting lithium from fracking wastewater is as yet unexplored, and the wastewater only exists if fracking activity continues.

To fulfill our climate goals, global demand for lithium is expected to increase by 400 percent in the coming decades. It remains to be seen how lithium requirements will be met and what new environmental crises those solutions might wreak.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-vast-untapped-source-of-lithium-has-just-been-found-in-the-us

[Smokin Joe]

Sigh. Another round of pro EV gibberish.

Proud North Dakotan here: How many drivers in North Dakota use EVs? As of June 2024, there are approximately 983 EVs and 789 plug-in hybrid electric vehicles registered in North Dakota.

I reckon most of them are city folks from the East Side and maybe Bismarck/Mandan.

But those of us living/working past the end of the sidewalks and streetlights aren't going for it.

How much of those new EV sales are Government fleets?

https://www.gsa.gov/blog/2023/09/22/gsa-is-driving-federal-fleet-electrification


More links here: https://www.gsa.gov/buy-through-us/products-and-services/transportation-and-logistics-services/fleet-management/fleet-electrification

Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

[banddag]

Sigh. Another round of pro EV gibberish.


How much of those new EV sales are Government fleets?



Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

1 million evs sold in 2022. 1.4 million ev's sold in US in 2023. 2024 is projected to be 1.8-2.0 million  Longer range, faster charging and cheaper ev;s coming out in 2025 by all US companies. Charging stations being built everywhere.

 Federal govt bought/projected to buy  9500 in 2023 give or take a few thousand ..that is a drop in  the bucket.  Figure another 4-5k by state gov'ts. OK, Make it 20k federal and state, still a drop in  the bucket.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-government-agencies-target-purchasing-9500-evs-2023-2023-07-19/


EV's are superior to gas. They are already working on the cold weather issues for states like yours.