Trump blames NATO talks for provoking russia into Ukraine war

[Hoodat]

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because in part, yes I believe the threat of NATO expansion was one of the reasons Putin escalated the ongoing war. Perhaps not the sole reason, but it did provoke him; even if it was in a small way.

In other words, we're going to agree to disagree on whether facts are relevant.  Again, Putin invaded only after it was clear that Ukraine would not be joining NATO.

Putin was not provoked.  He was encouraged by weakness.  He's nothing more than a bully who invaded because he thought he could get away with stealing Ukraine's oil and gas.

[libertybele]

In other words, we're going to agree to disagree on whether facts are relevant.  Again, Putin invaded only after it was clear that Ukraine would not be joining NATO.

Putin was not provoked.  He was encouraged by weakness.  He's nothing more than a bully who invaded because he thought he could get away with stealing Ukraine's oil and gas.

....meanwhile Joe & Company and likely Z are lining their pockets.  Nice.

[The_Reader_David]

Trump is right on this, but the analysis is as pointless as a guide to policy as correctly blaming the Treaty of Versailles for the German revanchism that brough Hitler to power once the Nazis were invading France.  Yes, NATO expansion (and trampling Russian interests in the Balkans in the 1990s, and generally continuing to treat Russia as a definitional enemy even though post-Soviet Russia was not trying by force of arms and subversion to impose an unworkable and inhuman social and economic system -- Communism -- on the whole world) is behind Putin's revanchism of which the Ukraine invasion is the most brutal expression. But just as Hitler had to be opposed, the missteps of the victors in WWI notwithstanding, so Putin must be opposed, the missteps of the victors in WWIII (aka the Cold War) not withstanding.

[Hoodat]

And now, back to what Trump said:

Former President of the United States and Republican presidential candidate, Donald Trump, stated that in his opinion, the war erupted because Ukraine ignored Russia's warnings about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO.

Trump was a guest on Thursday's podcast "All In" hosted by financier and Elon Musk's associate David Sacks, who is known for his pro-Russian views. The Republican candidate stated that Ukraine joining the North Atlantic Alliance would be "madness."

During the conversation, Trump was asked if he would agree to exclude the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO as part of the negotiations to end the war in that country. In response, the former president suggested that the issue of Ukraine's potential accession to NATO might have provoked Russia to take aggressive actions against Ukraine.

"Russia does not want NATO and its forces at its border"

- For 20 years, I've heard that NATO is a real problem for Russia. I've heard it for a long time, and I think that is truly the reason why this war started - Trump said. He accused the current U.S. President, Joe Biden, of causing the conflict with his "provocative" statements during the escalating tensions before the Russian invasion.

Let's turn the clock back to 2014 for a moment.  This is the year the 'invasion' really started.  Was there any talk of Ukraine joining NATO in 2014?  Absolutely not.  Yet Russia invaded Crimea and Luhansk.  And during Trump's four years in the White House, Russia continued to occupy Ukraine and push its troops deeper into Luhansk and Donetsk committing massacres against the Ukrainian people.  Did this have anything to do with NATO?  Absolutely not.  This was all about Putin replacing Stalin as the greatest Russian leader ever.  It is about land, territory, and resources.  It is about removing the Ukrainian stain from coveted lands just as they did with the Tartars in Crimea.

Yes, Trump must indeed have his head stuck up his ass if he is this naive.  Yet the one thing he should be celebrating is that NATO is finally stepping it up and contributing to their own defense.  Yet instead of taking credit for them taking his lead, he chooses to falsely bash them instead for something they had nothing to do with.

[Hoodat]

....meanwhile Joe & Company and likely Z are lining their pockets.  Nice.

Joe and Company?  Absolutely.  Zelenskiy?  Not a chance.  He could have escaped with untold billions back in 2022.  But instead, he chose to stay and fight it out.  Go figure.

And of course none of this has a thing to do with the ridiculously asinine claim that Ukraine and NATO are to blame for Putin's actions.

[Hoodat]

Trump is right on this

No, he isn't.  Again, Russia did not launch its 2022 invasion until it was crystal clear Ukraine would NOT be joining NATO.

[libertybele]

Joe and Company?  Absolutely.  Zelenskiy?  Not a chance.  He could have escaped with untold billions back in 2022.  But instead, he chose to stay and fight it out.  Go figure.

And of course none of this has a thing to do with the ridiculously asinine claim that Ukraine and NATO are to blame for Putin's actions.

Ok -- you've voiced your opinion and I have voiced mine in that I do believe in part that the threat of Ukraine becoming part of NATO was indeed a reason for him to escalate the ongoing war.

Also, I don't think Z is innocent and he has profited from this war.  My opinion.

[Hoodat]

The primary difference here is that my 'opinion' aligns with the facts while your 'opinion' is contradicted by the facts.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

No, he isn't.  Again, Russia did not launch its 2022 invasion until it was crystal clear Ukraine would NOT be joining NATO.

Just because Russia opposes the expansion of NATO does not mean that's why Russia attacked.  It's almost the opposite - Russia opposed the expansion of NATO because it wanted the freedom to invade the former constituent states of the Soviet Union.  And if they were members of NATO, he couldn't invade them.

[Hoodat]

Russia opposed the expansion of NATO because it wanted the freedom to invade the former constituent states of the Soviet Union.

Correct.

[libertybele]

The primary difference here is that my 'opinion' aligns with the facts while your 'opinion' is contradicted by the facts.

Ok ... that may be, but my opinion still stands.

[Timber Rattler]

Trump showing his ignorance yet again.

 

[Timber Rattler]

...and likely Z are lining their pockets.

Of which you have ZERO evidence because you know NOTHING about the man.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Ok -- you've voiced your opinion and I have voiced mine in that I do believe in part that the threat of Ukraine becoming part of NATO was indeed a reason for him to escalate the ongoing war.

Also, I don't think Z is innocent and he has profited from this war.  My opinion.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "escalation".  Russia attempted to capture Kiev - the capital of Ukraine - the very first day of the war.   They were going to seize the airport on the outskirts of the city, use it as a bridgehead to fly in more troops, and then head right for Kiev.

 They failed because the helicopter assault units were defeated at the Battle of Antonov Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport

The Russians were going for the conquest of the entire country from day one.

[Kamaji]

[Kamaji]

Ok -- you've voiced your opinion and I have voiced mine in that I do believe in part that the threat of Ukraine becoming part of NATO was indeed a reason for him to escalate the ongoing war.

Also, I don't think Z is innocent and he has profited from this war.  My opinion.

The thing about opinions is:  like rosebuds, everyone has one.

[DB]

Basic logic fail.

Annexing Ukraine only pushes Russian controlled territory closer to NATO.

Many of Ukraine's borders are with countries already in NATO. That reduces the "buffer".

Dumb claim.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Basic logic fail.

Annexing Ukraine only pushes Russian controlled territory closer to NATO.

Many of Ukraine's borders are with countries already in NATO. That reduces the "buffer".

Dumb claim.

Right.  The "buffer" was always a terrible argument.

[kevindavis007]

Ok -- you've voiced your opinion and I have voiced mine in that I do believe in part that the threat of Ukraine becoming part of NATO was indeed a reason for him to escalate the ongoing war.

Also, I don't think Z is innocent and he has profited from this war.  My opinion.

Cite your sources..

[libertybele]

Cite your sources..

  I have many many times since the Russo/Ukraine War has escalated a few years ago.  Even recently I have posted links. I'm not going to go back and repost nor am I going to wade though my 58,000+ posts to find those links to appease you or anyone else.

Have yourself a wonderful day.  I just go back from walking a mile in one of our beautiful, peaceful local parks.  Try it. You just might find it invigorating.