Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[roamer_1]

I would include nuclear as well.

I'm alright with nuclear, but won't be a fan until they figure out how to deal properly with the waste. Petro and coal waste is generally compost-able - we just don't do that right. Spent nuke is pure poison for a thousand years.

[Bigun]

I'm alright with nuclear, but won't be a fan until they figure out how to deal properly with the waste. Petro and coal waste is generally compost-able - we just don't do that right. Spent nuke is pure poison for a thousand years.

Breeder reactors are a type of nuclear reactor which produce more fissile materials than they consume.

https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Breeder_reactor#:~:text=Breeder%20reactors%20are%20a%20type,a%20potential%20renewable%20energy%20source.

[roamer_1]

Breeder reactors are a type of nuclear reactor which produce more fissile materials than they consume.

https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Breeder_reactor#:~:text=Breeder%20reactors%20are%20a%20type,a%20potential%20renewable%20energy%20source.

I am loosely familiar. it still produces waste that is bound for a salt mine. Too easy to kick that can... but that's disaster waiting to happen generations from now.

They had some bug a while back, some bacteria, that ate nuke waste and made it inert... Guess that didn't work out.... But something like that, and I'll climb onboard. 

[Smokin Joe]

They solar panels for the Chase regional bank in Columbus Ohio (13,000 employees)  covers the parking lot-it supplies 85% of their power and with upgrades they hope to get it to 100%. Home Depot in CA has put solar panels on the roof of their stores.



But the big news is NREL found that the total amount of land needed by 2035 to achieve our clean power goals with wind, solar and long-distance transmission lines (19,700 sq. mi) would be:

equivalent to the land area currently occupied by railroads (18,500 sq. mi)
less than half the area of active oil and gas leases (40,500 sq. mi)
less than one-third of the area currently needed for ethanol production (59,500 sq. mi), and
only slightly more than the historically disturbed land area for coal mining (13,100 sq. mi).

So I should shell out money for subsidies for Chase Manhattan Bank and Home Depot?

Those oil and gas leases can (and do) fuel a country. Your solar arrays won't.
Of the standard 1280 acre lease up here, the eight wells will produce oil beneath that from a 5 acre (or smaller) pad. The rest of the lease is still in cropland, pasture, housing, whatever, even towns. So using the area of those leases inflates the actual surface acreage needed to produce the oil and or gas.

I must also note you left out the area needed to mine the component minerals, construct the panels and supports.

[roamer_1]

I'm not against solar. I am a fan. Distributed solar makes sense to me, with buy-back deals with electric companies, the consumer level cost would be paid for in 10 years or so, and your average suburban or rural home could be nearly self-contained.

That's a big, robust, distributed system, with the lion's share of the energy already at the end-point... so less transmission and transmission loss. Hard to knock down. That's worth looking at.

But I am dead against big solar.

[Wingnut]

This thread has been driven by our new troll so far off the track it needs to be locked.  j/s

[DB]

I'm not against solar. I am a fan. Distributed solar makes sense to me, with buy-back deals with electric companies, the consumer level cost would be paid for in 10 years or so, and your average suburban or rural home could be nearly self-contained.

That's a big, robust, distributed system, with the lion's share of the energy already at the end-point... so less transmission and transmission loss. Hard to knock down. That's worth looking at.

But I am dead against big solar.

Big distributed power generation that isn't directly managed by a power company is a problem and can be unstable. Another problem is generation can change rapidly with clouds/storm moving in. Something has to take up the slack quickly or it fails.

[roamer_1]

Big distributed power generation that isn't directly managed by a power company is a problem and can be unstable. Another problem is generation can change rapidly with clouds/storm moving in. Something has to take up the slack quickly or it fails.

Sure - But I'm talking grid connected. Primary power would come from local solar unless more power is needed and failover to grid.

However, with more and more solar there would come a tipping point where grid power would be hard to maintain - When the solar generated buy-back Exceeds the profitable margin to maintain grid networks.
It has problems.

But it is also kinda handy - grid failure is less troublesome if every house has a battery system to fall back on.
Probably  not enough for continual power without a jenny, but enough to keep the place running a day or two while the lines are getting fixed.

Not perfect, Not without it's problems. But it's worth a look.

[roamer_1]

Same thing with EVs. I am not against EVs per se, Where they work, more power to em. Inner cities can probably use em.

 But just like smart cars (remember that goofy shit?), once you step off from the cities a ways, they're wholly impractical. Hilarious and stupid.

It's shoving them down folks throats that is the problem.
It's pie-in-the-sky bullshit like diesel equipment being replaced that is the problem.
They can't replace a pickup. How the hell are they going to replace a tractor or a skidder or a dozer?

It's purely bullcrap.

The market will decide.
Let it.

[roamer_1]

[mystery-ak]

Has this thread run it's course yet?

[Hoodat]

Well, the Stanford professors are using the word solar for panels that generate electricity at night so I guess I can also.

Had you bothered to actually read the article before posting it, you would have seen that the amount in question was 0.025% of daytime output.  So to match the 15 acres of daytime output at Stihl, one would need over 93 square miles of these "special" panels.

From your article:

There are still a lot of questions to be answered before any commercial application can be rolled out, Geoff Smith, emeritus professor in applied physics at The University of Technology Sydney, wrote in an email response to questions. Smith, who was aware of the research but not involved, has doubts that it ever will be an economically viable source of energy.

"Adding complexity and avenues for degradation to renewable energy systems despite being scientifically interesting rarely makes it in practice," he wrote.

Hey how about rebutting me on the ivermectin/Japan thing.

What kind of rebuttal are you looking for?  Are you disputing that Japan has one of the oldest populations in the world?

[Hoodat]

FACT! It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn-based ethanol when ALL inputs are considered.

And that's our ticket to energy independence!  ROFLMAO!!!

And you can't pump it by pipeline either.  Ethanol must be delivered by truck.

[corbe]

Has this thread run it's course yet?

[Hoodat]

Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.

Well the greatest since Obama, anyway.

[Hoodat]

Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.

Trump says Biden would 'destroy' oil industry

I believe you are confusing 'Trump' with 'the right'.  It's a common mistake among leftists.

[Hoodat]

You want a real explosion? Check into what happened in Halifax, Nova Scotia or Beirut, Lebanon.
Like you said, every industry has its risks.

Don't forget the Texas City explosion in Galveston Bay.

[Hoodat]

Breeder reactors are a type of nuclear reactor which produce more fissile materials than they consume.

https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Breeder_reactor#:~:text=Breeder%20reactors%20are%20a%20type,a%20potential%20renewable%20energy%20source.

More nukes, less kooks.

[Hoodat]

I'm not against solar. I am a fan. Distributed solar makes sense to me, with buy-back deals with electric companies, the consumer level cost would be paid for in 10 years or so, and your average suburban or rural home could be nearly self-contained.

That's a big, robust, distributed system, with the lion's share of the energy already at the end-point... so less transmission and transmission loss. Hard to knock down. That's worth looking at.

But I am dead against big solar.

Agreed.  The future of solar rests with the homeowner who puts panels on his roof and sells back to the grid.  Fifty million homeowners doing that will generate far more electricity than some large government-subsidized business with the right connections inside Washington.

[Smokin Joe]

Don't forget the Texas City explosion in Galveston Bay.

Thanks. I knew I had missed one.

[DB]

Well, obviously Ford is misinformed about EVs, they are clearly better, simplier and lower cost to manufacture than gas powered vehicles. The fact that they aren't selling is because they aren't doing it right.

Says every socialist...

[banddag]

What kind of rebuttal are you looking for?  Are you disputing that Japan has one of the oldest populations in the world?

I never disputed their old age. Not once. You know that. You read my response. What I did dispute was the  reason you gave for the low covid deaths-ivermectin.

I gave 5-6 scientific reasons why they had low covid deaths but one of the oldest populations and ivermectin was not one of them.

[banddag]

I decided to put banddag on ignore.

As this thread has demonstrated, he has [what was] sinkspur's ability to take over a thread and by doing so pre-occupy and distort the participation of other forum members.

Perhaps he's being paid to do so (as I always suspected that sinkspur was).

Bye, banddag ...

 How will you ever learn and progress by only reading one side?

[DB]

How will you ever learn and progress by only reading one side?

A thing called critical thinking. Knowing more than a shallow understanding of how the world works. There are plenty of people who can find things on the Internet thinking it makes them knowledgeable/smart with absolutely no clue of how to apply it or the basic validity of it.

In short, the internet is filled with click bait to lure people who are gullible about the "next greatest thing" or "inside" information that no one else knows making them special...

[mountaineer]

A thing called critical thinking. Knowing more than a shallow understanding of how the world works.

Doing more than "google, cut, and paste" is essential, too.

[banddag]

A thing called critical thinking.

How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think  alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on  the back?

[mountaineer]

Has this thread run it's course yet?

Definitely.

[DB]

How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think  alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on  the back?

You fail to understand, repeatedly. Few if any here are against EVs. There are some really nice ones. The point is, government is forcing it down everyone's throats based on bad science with a product and infrastructure that are not ready for prime time. There's already a shortage of electricity, and costs are rising, the grid is nowhere near being able to support fully electric transportation. Unicorns won't make it happen. It is lowering our standard of living across the board by getting less for more cost.

The free market is excellent at bringing new technologies forward, let them without government interference and/or picking winners and losers with my tax dollars.

Informed people can "think alike" simply because they are knowledgeable on the subject. There are engineers and other technical people here who know far more about these things than you do. A wise person would learn from them instead trying to tell them things they know aren't so.

[roamer_1]

How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think  alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on  the back?

Perhaps because the participants are educated, well informed, and have heard all this bullshit before, many times.

[GtHawk]

Perhaps because the participants are educated, well informed, and have heard all this bullshit before, many times.

Seriously, I live in SoCal there are are probably more EV's here than anywhere else because the climate is perfect for them year round, that of course changes in NorCal. You could not pay me to have an EV, I live in an apartment like millions of others and would be stuck using pubic charging stations, that's a no go and even if I owned a home it would be a no go as homed based charging is a very expensive deal, plus I don't like the odds of a firebomb going off in my garage. And then the is the time it currently takes to charge, why should I sit around waiting for an EV to charge when I can fill the tank of my ICE in less than five minutes or less? Nope until they come up with cars powered by Mister Fusion I'll stick to my ICE car....with the added bonus that I won't risk being trapped in a natural disaster when the power goes out.

[berdie]

How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think  alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on  the back?

Interesting. I've seen pro-EV and pro Climate Change news posted here very often. Thank you @rangerrebew  .
Even if that weren't the case...I do my own research as I'm sure most here do.

[Hoodat]

How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think  alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on  the back?

It's not a lack of pro-EV threads that inhibits critical thinking.  It is ignoring the contents of what is being posted that inhibits critical thinking.  Kind of like what you do.  I have noticed several of your supporting articles actually contradict the claims you make.  Case in point, each time you post an allegedly pro-EV link, I read it and post right back to you the contrary evidence it contains - evidence that you failed to read yourself.  So which of us is employing critical thinking here?  You for blindly posting links you haven't read?  Or me for reading your articles and breaking them down?

[Hoodat]

You fail to understand, repeatedly. Few if any here are against EVs. There are some really nice ones. The point is, government is forcing it down everyone's throats based on bad science with a product and infrastructure that are not ready for prime time. There's already a shortage of electricity, and costs are rising, the grid is nowhere near being able to support fully electric transportation. Unicorns won't make it happen. It is lowering our standard of living across the board by getting less for more cost.

The free market is excellent at bringing new technologies forward, let them without government interference and/or picking winners and losers with my tax dollars.

Informed people can "think alike" simply because they are knowledgeable on the subject. There are engineers and other technical people here who know far more about these things than you do. A wise person would learn from them instead trying to tell them things they know aren't so.

Ditto.  If I lived in a crowded city with lots of stop signs and red lights and had zero plans of ever travelling anywhere outside a 20-mile radius, then an EV would definitely be a viable option.  But I don't live in such a place.  I live in the country with long stretches without stop signs, red lights, or traffic congestion.  I have a 50-mile commute each day, and I average around 46 mpg for that commute which is better than a Prius.  That's less than 5½ gallons of gas a week, far less than it would cost to recharge EV batteries.  And if I decide to take a day trip to Nashville or Birmingham, I don't have to worry about stopping to recharge somewhere along the way.

If EVs work for you, I applaud your decision.  But there's no way I would ever mandate that (at the point of a gun) on someone living in Wyoming, Oklahoma, Texas, etc.  Of course liberals have no qualms about using guns to do exactly that.

[roamer_1]

Seriously, I live in SoCal there are are probably more EV's here than anywhere else because the climate is perfect for them year round, that of course changes in NorCal. You could not pay me to have an EV, I live in an apartment like millions of others and would be stuck using pubic charging stations, that's a no go and even if I owned a home it would be a no go as homed based charging is a very expensive deal, plus I don't like the odds of a firebomb going off in my garage. And then the is the time it currently takes to charge, why should I sit around waiting for an EV to charge when I can fill the tank of my ICE in less than five minutes or less? Nope until they come up with cars powered by Mister Fusion I'll stick to my ICE car....with the added bonus that I won't risk being trapped in a natural disaster when the power goes out.

Up in here they are as laughable as the smart cars... I mean point and laugh.

But put that in a context - We don't have smart cars up in here... We have side-by-sides and Razors. 
So kinda the same thing.

Maybe the same sort of analog will happen with the EVs.

We do have batt operated power tools. But only in the summer.
Winter construction, everything is corded and the air compressors come back out.
But I doubt anybody is going to buy an EV just for summertime.

I have an old golf cart coming though. Gonna jack it up and put ATV tires under it, and see about some LIron batts for it... Mount onboard solar/inverter... Use that to go to town when I can. So I ain't against it in theory.

[deb]

Up in here they are as laughable as the smart cars... I mean point and laugh.

But put that in a context - We don't have smart cars up in here... We have side-by-sides and Razors. 

Side-by-sides and Razors are WAY more fun, not to mention more functional, than any smart car.

[roamer_1]

Side-by-sides and Razors are WAY more fun, not to mention more functional, than any smart car.

Right. Redneck.
That's because they're all jacked up.
It's the same Idea...
Used to be all that side by side stuff was done with a beat up ol farm truck... a regular pickup. Then in my day, folks were looking specifically for Yoda and Nissan pickups to do that stuff... The smaller trucks got around better, and didn't cost so much to run and drive... So buying a beat up old yoda for a farm truck did the trick. Then the side by side... There was a progression, but it's the same concept.