BREAKING....Thread 9...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON

[mystery-ak]

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#BREAKING: ISIS claims responsibility for two explosions that killed nearly 100 people and wounded scores at a ceremony in Iran to commemorate commander Qassem Soleimani, who was killed by a U.S. drone in 2020. (Fox)

[Right_in_Virginia]

One more time with vigor!

There is no such thing as a Palestinian!

How is this silly talking point still relevant or helpful when the world, including Israel, acknowledges the Palestinian people @Bigun ?

Fox News
Nov 12, 2023

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday vowed that Israeli forces must "destroy Hamas" in order to secure the future of Palestinians as well as the Jewish state.

"If you want peace, destroy Hamas. If you want security, destroy Hamas. If you want a future for Israel, the Palestinians, the Middle East, destroy Hamas," Netanyahu told "Meet the Press" host Kristen Welker during an appearance on the NBC Sunday program.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/netanyahu-says-israel-must-destroy-hamas-secure-palestinian-future

[Hoodat]

'Ethnic Cleansing'

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1405730226961823

Maybe you should go back to the UKRAINE map for your avatar?  /s

@DCPatriot

So you agree with RiV that Israel is guilty of Ethnic Cleansing?

[Hoodat]

i24NEWS English
@i24NEWS_EN
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22m
🛑ISIS spokesperson calls on Muslims to kill Jews in Israel and around the world. The statement was part of a 30-minute address, most of which was devoted to the Gaza war

Yet one poster here would have us believe that it is the Jews who are guilty of 'Ethnic Cleansing'.  The Arabs have been pushing the same lie since 1948 that the Jews are kicking them off their land.  Over 75 years pushing the same friggin' lie.  And now we see our very own TBR boards desecrated with that lie?  Enough already.

[Bigun]

How is this silly talking point still relevant or helpful when the world, including Israel, acknowledges the Palestinian people @Bigun ?

What you call a "silly talking point" I call a fact @Right_in_Virginia and facts are always relevant.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@DCPatriot

So you agree with RiV that Israel is guilty of Ethnic Cleansing?

@Hoodat, @DCPatriot

Ethnic cleansing is not new.  The modern world has witnessed it in Eastern Europe, including Serbia, for decades.  In Nazi Germany the proposal before the final solution was the Madagascar Plan.

To be clear,  I have not claimed Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing.  I am warning Israel to stop and think ---- to fight the emotions of this moment and not follow in the wrong footsteps. 

If Israel moves forward with the plans below, the charge of ethnic cleansing will gain global credibility at precisely the time they need the support of the global community.

Times of Israel
Jan 3,  2024

The “voluntary” resettlement of Palestinians from Gaza is slowly becoming a key official policy of the government, with a senior official saying that Israel has held talks with several countries for their potential absorption.

Zman Israel, The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site, has learned that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition is conducting secret contacts for accepting thousands of immigrants from Gaza with Congo, in addition to other nations.

“Congo will be willing to take in migrants, and we’re in talks with others,” a senior source in the security cabinet said.

Last Monday, Netanyahu told a Likud faction meeting that he is working to facilitate the voluntary migration of Gazans to other countries.

“Our problem is [finding] countries that are willing to absorb Gazans, and we are working on it,” he said.

The prime minister was responding to Likud MK Danny Danon, who claimed that “the world is already discussing the possibilities of voluntary immigration,” though the idea has been roundly rejected by the international community.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-in-talks-with-congo-and-other-countries-on-gaza-voluntary-migration-plan/

[Right_in_Virginia]

What you call a "silly talking point" I call a fact @Right_in_Virginia

Hopefully, we can agree to disagree on this.   @Bigun

Wishing you and yours a healthy, happy 2024. 

[Bigun]

Hopefully, we can agree to disagree on this.   @Bigun

Wishing you and yours a healthy, happy 2024.

Of course! @Right_in_Virginia  But:

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

--John Adams

[DefiantMassRINO]

Can't we just agree that everyone in the Middle East want to kill each other?

The "Palestinians" in Gaza already have been involuntarly re-located from their families' original homes elsewhere in territory now controlled by Israel.

The Israeli conservative discussion about "voluntary relocation" sounds like duplicitous branding for Ethnic Cleansing.

(Radical) Zionsism and "a two state solution" are incompatible.

(Radical) Zionism would require the removal of Arabs, and maybe other non-Jews, from all of Palestine; or, the implementation of an Apartheid System that makes non-Jews 2nd class ciitizens, or non-citizens, of Israel.

(Radical) Zionism is an exclusionary ethno-religious doctrine that reserves Palestine exlusively for a Jewish state/homeland.

Arabs cannot be equal within an Israeli state because, demographically, the Arab population of Israel would grow to exceed the Jewish population.  (Radical) Zionism does not allow room for an Arab/Mulsim majority Israeli state in Palestine.

So, (radical) Zionism and a 2-state Palestinian solution are incompatible.  Radical Zionists want to clear Gaza and the West Bank of Arab/Muslim residents/occupants/settlers.  Radical Zionist settlers are using an asymteric strategy to gradually ethnicly cleanse the West Bank by re-occupying territory.

All sides will continue to kill each other to fulfill prophecies / promises / vandettas of the past.  It's been that way since the Old Testament.

A workable solution will only emerge when all sides are sick and tired of the killing and the mourning.

The only corollary I can think of is Northern Ireland.  Ireland had to remove re-uniifcation of Ulster with the Republic from its Constitution; and the British and Protestants provide (more) equal civil rights to Catholics.

Good luck with all of this, especially now that ISIS is launching terrorist attacks against Iran.

[Right_in_Virginia]

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender

The United States, Australia, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, and the United Kingdom released a Joint-Statement today in what is now seen as a “Final Warning” to the Houthi Terrorist Group in Yemen; that if they do not Immediately Halt their Attacks on Commercial Shipping in the Red Sea and their Unlawfully Detaining of Vessels alongside their Crews, then they will Bear the Responsibility and Consequences of their Actions.

12:04 AM · Jan 4, 2024

Source:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/01/03/a-joint-statement-from-the-governments-of-the-united-states-australia-bahrain-belgium-canada-denmark-germany-italy-japan-netherlands-new-zealand-and-the-united-kingdom/?utm_source=twitter

[jafo2010]

Right_in_Virginia,
To be clear,  I have not claimed Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing.  I am warning Israel to stop and think ---- to fight the emotions of this moment and not follow in the wrong footsteps.

Was it ethnic cleansing when the USA during WWII fire bombed a dozen cities in Japan, killing 100,000 in one day in Tokyo?  Hell no!  It was f***ing war.

SAME FOR THE CONFLICT WITH ISRAEL AND HAMAS!  IT IS WAR, AND ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLETELY DESTROY AND LEVEL GAZA.  PERIOD!

Ethnic cleansing is such liberal nonsense.

When the mussies make it their mission in life to killevery Jew, destroy Israel, etc, Israel has every right to do s the USA did in WWII.

I say levelling Gaza in its entirety, and declaring that it remain in ruins permanently is well within their right. The evil of the mussies living in Gaza is not a mystery.

And the notion of Israel displacing mussies from their land is another nonsense notion.  Jews have been in those lands for thousands of years, LONG BEFORE MUSSIES EVER EXISTED!!!   UGGH!!!

To destroy an enemy that repeatedly kills your citizens and makes war on your nation with each passing day is Israel's right!  I say Israel has a clear right to kill every last one of them.

[Cyber Liberty]

Can't we just agree that everyone in the Middle East want to kill each other?

The "Palestinians" in Gaza already have been involuntarly re-located from their families' original homes elsewhere in territory now controlled by Israel.

The Israeli conservative discussion about "voluntary relocation" sounds like duplicitous branding for Ethnic Cleansing.

(Radical) Zionsism and "a two state solution" are incompatible.

(Radical) Zionism would require the removal of Arabs, and maybe other non-Jews, from all of Palestine; or, the implementation of an Apartheid System that makes non-Jews 2nd class ciitizens, or non-citizens, of Israel.

(Radical) Zionism is an exclusionary ethno-religious doctrine that reserves Palestine exlusively for a Jewish state/homeland.

Arabs cannot be equal within an Israeli state because, demographically, the Arab population of Israel would grow to exceed the Jewish population.  (Radical) Zionism does not allow room for an Arab/Mulsim majority Israeli state in Palestine.

So, (radical) Zionism and a 2-state Palestinian solution are incompatible.  Radical Zionists want to clear Gaza and the West Bank of Arab/Muslim residents/occupants/settlers.  Radical Zionist settlers are using an asymteric strategy to gradually ethnicly cleanse the West Bank by re-occupying territory.

All sides will continue to kill each other to fulfill prophecies / promises / vandettas of the past.  It's been that way since the Old Testament.

A workable solution will only emerge when all sides are sick and tired of the killing and the mourning.

The only corollary I can think of is Northern Ireland.  Ireland had to remove re-uniifcation of Ulster with the Republic from its Constitution; and the British and Protestants provide (more) equal civil rights to Catholics.

Good luck with all of this, especially now that ISIS is launching terrorist attacks against Iran.

I guess the Israelis should just give up on their ancestral home and find a nice place in Pennsylvania.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Was it ethnic cleansing when the USA during WWII fire bombed a dozen cities in Japan, killing 100,000 in one day in Tokyo?  Hell no!  It was f***ing war.

@jafo2010

It was two bombings in a long, hot war --- a war we finally ended with those bombs.

If history is correct, we did not return when the smoke cleared and sweep the remaining Japanese from their homes and lives for the real estate.  In fact, we allowed the Emperor to remain a unity figurehead for the Japanese people --- helping to pave the way for the alliance with Japan we have to this day.

And the notion of Israel displacing mussies from their land is another nonsense notion.  Jews have been in those lands for thousands of years, LONG BEFORE MUSSIES EVER EXISTED!!!   UGGH!!!

You're aware there is quite a bit of scholarly debate on this --- especially the linear aspects of your claim, are you not? 

I say Israel has a clear right to kill every last one of them.

Just to be clear, and I ask because you post variations of this    opinion frequently ----- are you saying "Never again!" unless the attempted extermination is from Israel?

[DCPatriot]

Was it ethnic cleansing when the USA during WWII fire bombed a dozen cities in Japan, killing 100,000 in one day in Tokyo?  Hell no!  It was f***ing war.

SAME FOR THE CONFLICT WITH ISRAEL AND HAMAS!  IT IS WAR, AND ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLETELY DESTROY AND LEVEL GAZA.  PERIOD!

Ethnic cleansing is such liberal nonsense.

When the mussies make it their mission in life to killevery Jew, destroy Israel, etc, Israel has every right to do s the USA did in WWII.

I say levelling Gaza in its entirety, and declaring that it remain in ruins permanently is well within their right. The evil of the mussies living in Gaza is not a mystery.

And the notion of Israel displacing mussies from their land is another nonsense notion.  Jews have been in those lands for thousands of years, LONG BEFORE MUSSIES EVER EXISTED!!!   UGGH!!!

To destroy an enemy that repeatedly kills your citizens and makes war on your nation with each passing day is Israel's right!  I say Israel has a clear right to kill every last one of them.

Amen, @jafo2010  AMEN!   

[Smokin Joe]

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#BREAKING: ISIS claims responsibility for two explosions that killed nearly 100 people and wounded scores at a ceremony in Iran to commemorate commander Qassem Soleimani, who was killed by a U.S. drone in 2020. (Fox)

ISIS?   

[Smokin Joe]

What you call a "silly talking point" I call a fact @Right_in_Virginia and facts are always relevant.

Didn't you get the memo? Facts are a threat to 'our democracy'.

Words are misused in the press and elsewhere all the time. That does not make them correct, just common errors.

[Smokin Joe]

Was it ethnic cleansing when the USA during WWII fire bombed a dozen cities in Japan, killing 100,000 in one day in Tokyo?  Hell no!  It was f***ing war.

SAME FOR THE CONFLICT WITH ISRAEL AND HAMAS!  IT IS WAR, AND ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLETELY DESTROY AND LEVEL GAZA.  PERIOD!

Ethnic cleansing is such liberal nonsense.

When the mussies make it their mission in life to killevery Jew, destroy Israel, etc, Israel has every right to do s the USA did in WWII.

I say levelling Gaza in its entirety, and declaring that it remain in ruins permanently is well within their right. The evil of the mussies living in Gaza is not a mystery.

And the notion of Israel displacing mussies from their land is another nonsense notion.  Jews have been in those lands for thousands of years, LONG BEFORE MUSSIES EVER EXISTED!!!   UGGH!!!

To destroy an enemy that repeatedly kills your citizens and makes war on your nation with each passing day is Israel's right!  I say Israel has a clear right to kill every last one of them.

Deuteronomy 20:16-18 (KJV)

16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

Seems to me the Israelis have been pretty patient with their neighbors, and the terrorists they harbor.

[jafo2010]

Right_in_Virginia,
Just to be clear, and I ask because you post this    opinion frequently ----- are you saying "Never again!" unless the the attempted extermination is from Israel?

The complete destruction of an enemy has become taboo with the idiocy that is pervasive, which you obviously embrace.

I believe that the people in Gaza should be thoroughly attacked and vanquished, until such time they surrender and give up all weapons for war against Israel.  That is not extermination.  But when the crybabies here and in the world whine about 20,000 dead Gazans when there are millions, then what Israel is donning falls into the category of weak sister idiocy, something the USA is good at dispensing and forcing others to do.

What we are forcing Israel to do is very self destructive, and will leave the enemy stronger for the NEXT TIME they decide to kill large numbers of Jews.

So tell me RIV, how many Jews would need to be murdered for you to justify the complete vanquishing of an evil culture?  Give me a number?

This tea and crumpets approach to dealing with an enemy is one more form of total idiocy. 

[Smokin Joe]

@jafo2010

It was two bombings in a long, hot war --- a war we finally ended with those bombs.

If history is correct, we did not return when the smoke cleared and sweep the remaining Japanese from their homes and lives for the real estate.  In fact, we allowed the Emperor to remain a unity figurehead for the Japanese people --- helping to pave the way for the alliance with Japan we have to this day.

You're aware there is quite a bit of scholarly debate on this --- especially the linear aspects of your claim, are you not? 

Just to be clear, and I ask because you post variations of this    opinion frequently ----- are you saying "Never again!" unless the the attempted extermination is from Israel?

If history is correct, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were on the A-bomb list because they were among a very few cities in Japan that hadn't been fire-bombed into ashes. Parts of Germany did not fare much better. Tokyo was so burned out from incendiaries that not only would it have been a waste to nuke it, there would have been no one left to surrender. The objective was to hamper weapons and materiel production and demoralize the population. The Nazis started it with raids on London and Coventry, the Japanese with their rapacious conquest of China and Manchuria, and acts committed by both were far beyond what Israel is doing in Gaza.

We have yet to confront the problem that will overrun Europe, and for all we know, may be here in sufficient numbers already to be a problem here. It is there, just getting worse where it was  compassionately allowed to relocate. It is a 1400 year old scourge on Western Civilization, and the day is coming when it will be fight or submit. ISIS claiming responsibility for acts against Iran adds a new twist.

Can the civilians who harbored Hamas be any more innocent than the Nazis who looked the other way when millions were rounded up and sent to the death camps?  Or participated in Kristallnacht? In Total War, the people who support the regime are subject to the same as the people running it.

[Elderberry]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
·
Israeli forces in Khan Younis are mapping tunnel network in city using intel obtained from captured Hamas operatives; troops moving closer to hideouts of senior Hamas members, says IDF officer. via @ynetalert
·
Defense Minister Gallant:
IDF operations in southern Gaza are intensifying, above & below ground; terrorists should count down the days to their death, it's coming soon. via @N12News

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat, @DCPatriot

Ethnic cleansing is not new.

Neither is loading Jews onto cattle cars and shipping them to extermination camps in eastern Poland.  But from a logic standpoint, declaring something as "not new" does not constitute proof that ethnic cleansing occurred.  The only difference here is that there is proof the Nazis shipped Jews to extermination camps in eastern Poland while there is zero proof that the Jews have committed (or even advocated) ethnic cleansing.  It is simply a slur you offered without proof - a lie that you remain committed to.

The modern world has witnessed it in Eastern Europe, including Serbia, for decades.  In Nazi Germany the proposal before the final solution was the Madagascar Plan.

And in Israel?  Nothing.  Zip.  Nada.  In the entire Middle East/Eastern Med region, there is only one country that will grant a path to citizenship for Palestinian immigrants.  Only one. Israel, the nation you slander with the charge of "ethnic cleansing".

To be clear,  I have not claimed Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing.

This is your post, no?

Ethnic cleansing is *always* presented as "voluntary".  Withholding movement, safety, housing, water, medical supplies, electricity, food and employment are the provable and reliable ways of rendering "voluntary" a political sham.

I am warning Israel to stop and think ---- to fight the emotions of this moment and not follow in the wrong footsteps.

Warning?  No.  You are condemning Israel with false accusations.  This thread is filled with your attacks against Bibi for going too far, not doing enough, standing idly by, being excessively proactive, giving money to the PA, not giving money to the PA - whatever spin you can pilfer from the Israel haters with zero accountability for truth.

If Israel moves forward with the plans below, the charge of ethnic cleansing will gain global credibility at precisely the time they need the support of the global community.

It won't be the first time the world embraced a lie.  And it certainly isn't the first time you posted a lie here.  As for "credibility", that simply isn't a word you have any knowledge of.  So next time you want to slander a people with lies about ethnic cleansing, you may want to find some facts to back it up first.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The complete destruction of an enemy has become taboo with the idiocy that is pervasive, which you obviously embrace.

I embrace the destruction of Hamas, top down and their war infrastructure, especially the tunnels.  In fact @jafo2010 I have been upset since 2014 when the tunnels were left after that war ---- and recently I've been near apoplectic that the expansion of the tunnels in scope and sophistication was permitted by Israel during the 10 years of "quiet" that followed.

I don't share your opinion that civilians, too, should be killed or otherwise removed.

What we are forcing Israel to do is very self destructive, and will leave the enemy stronger for the NEXT TIME they decide to kill large numbers of Jews.

What are we forcing Israel to do that causes you to say this?

So tell me RIV, how many Jews would need to be murdered for you to justify the complete vanquishing of an evil culture?  Give me a number?

Wow, this is a loaded question, even for a discussion about the State of Israel.    If you'd define "vanquish" and "culture", I'll give you my sincere answer.  I could take a shot at guessing what you mean, but the risk of derailing this conversation by guessing wrong is too high.

Thanks.

[Elderberry]

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender
 
Significant Rocket Attack on the Cities of Ashkelon and Sderot in Southern Israel within the last few minutes.

[Elderberry]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
 
1. IDF estimate (via @Nadav_Eyal): Hezbollah can no longer launch assault on Israel without early warning, as army pounds extensive terror infrastructure on Lebanon border; Hezbollah's plans are likely outdated given new Israeli military posture on tense frontier

2. IDF deployment on Lebanon border is deadly & flexible, defensive posture can shift to attack mode at any given moment, says @BenCaspit; Israel mobilized 146th reserve division to region, a highly trained & well equipped military force.

[Elderberry]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
 
Israel's defense budget will rise from 3.5% of GDP to over 6% in 2024 (about $30B), says defense analyst @alonbd via @MaarivOnline; mandatory military service to be extended, Israeli air defenses will remain on constant alert as long as fighting continues.

American support: IDF got 17,000 tons of US munitions so far, will purchase 20 attack helicopters; Israel to start local production of Air Force munitions & explosives, expand assembly lines of tanks & armored vehicles to reduce dependence on America. via @MaarivOnline

[Wingnut]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
 
 Israel to start local production of Air Force munitions & explosives, expand assembly lines of tanks & armored vehicles to reduce dependence on America. via @MaarivOnline

Wise move.  Never trust America to have your back when the chips are down and the going gets tough.

[mystery-ak]

Israel’s Defense Minister Releases Plan for Next Stage of War, ‘Day After’ Hamas Defeated

Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant released a plan on Thursday that outlines his vision for the next phase of the war against Hamas in Gaza, and for the structure of government in Gaza once Hamas has been destroyed.

t is not clear whether Gallant’s plan is an official government plan, but it was distributed by Israel’s Government Press Office. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has deferred meeting with his Cabinet to draft a formal plan for postwar Gaza, though he has said that the corrupt Palestinian Authority, which currently governs most Palestinians who live in the West Bank and encourages terrorism, should not be allowed to return to Gaza.

Gallant’s plan could therefore be a trial balloon — one distributed by the Netanyahu government but not formally adopted by it.

It begins with a description of the next stage (“Phase III”) of the war: “Fighting will continue until the goals of the war are achieved: (1) the return of the hostages, (2) the dismantling of Hamas’ military and governing capabilities and (3) the removal of military threats from the Gaza strip.”

In the northern Gaza Strip, where Hamas has largely been eliminated, Gallant suggests that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will scale down operations, but will continue with “raids, the destruction of terror tunnels, aerial and ground activities, and special operations.”

more
https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2024/01/04/israels-defense-minister-releases-plan-for-next-stage-of-war-day-after-hamas-defeated/

[Elderberry]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
 
Defense Minister Gallant met senior officers at IDF Northern Command HQ to review operational plans, @MaarivOnline  reports. Massive Israeli air power is facing Lebanon/Syria, ready for major action vs. Hezbollah if conflict escalates.

Israel enters tense weekend: Hezbollah & Iran promise revenge, IDF deployed in force across northern border; major attack will be met with strong Israeli response & possibly trigger large conflict. Will Nasrallah take a big risk? We'll find out soon.

[Elderberry]

What are Hezbollah's calculations, 90 days into war on Israel? - analysis

Jerusalem Post By SETH J. FRANTZMAN 1/4/2024

Hezbollah has dictated the tempo. It has been used to doing what it wants, creating provocations and escalation, and pushing again and again to see what is effective.

For the past 90 days of the war, Hezbollah got used to playing fiddle. After Hamas attacked Israel on October 7, Hezbollah began to carry out attacks on Israel, and while there were initial concerns in the region and Washington that this could escalate, Hezbollah appeared to prefer daily small attacks to a larger war; a US aircraft carrier parked in the Mediterranean may have made it think twice.

This aircraft carrier is now heading away, allowing Hezbollah to feel more empowered in its decisions; it has to fish or cut bait. The problem with Hezbollah is that it has become too big in recent years. Not only does it occupy a swath of Lebanon and hold Lebanese politics hostage, but it is so powerful that Iran fears “losing” it in a war, like an advanced piece on a chess board, where you keep sending more pieces to protect it, lest that piece end up being lost in some complex sacrifice. Iran doesn’t want to sacrifice Hezbollah, yet it also wants Hezbollah to be a threat to Israel.

So far, Hezbollah has succeeded in driving some 80,000 Israelis from their homes on the northern border; this is unprecedented – never in history did Israel evacuate the whole border. Hezbollah can pretend it has won, but it has also lost around 140 or more of its fighters. Hezbollah terrorists are not a rabble. It’s not like the poor Iranian recruits from Afghanistan – the Fetimiyoun – whom Iran sent as cannon fodder to Syria. Hezbollah, rather, is used to being the senior partner among all of Iran’s proxies.

More: https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-780870

[DefiantMassRINO]

Did you mean to say Russia's, Iran's, and China's calculations?

Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthies, etc, are puppets; Russia, Iran, and China are the puppet masters pulling the strings.

We are in the midst of Cold War v2.0, and the West is losing and on the defensive.

[Elderberry]

Did you mean to say Russia's, Iran's, and China's calculations?

Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthies, etc, are puppets; Russia, Iran, and China are the puppet masters pulling the strings.

We are in the midst of Cold War v2.0, and the West is losing and on the defensive.

Did you mean " SETH J. FRANTZMAN" ?

[Right_in_Virginia]

If history is correct, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were on the A-bomb list because they were among a very few cities in Japan that hadn't been fire-bombed into ashes. Parts of Germany did not fare much better. Tokyo was so burned out from incendiaries that not only would it have been a waste to nuke it, there would have been no one left to surrender. The objective was to hamper weapons and materiel production and demoralize the population. The Nazis started it with raids on London and Coventry, the Japanese with their rapacious conquest of China and Manchuria, and acts committed by both were far beyond what Israel is doing in Gaza.

But, this is not WWII @Smokin Joe   This is a 56 year old regional conflict over a sliver of territory the size of  Newark ---- in a part of the world renowned for centuries-old layers of blood grudges on all sides.  Please fight the urge to conflate this with WWII.    Please also fight the urge to trigger WWIII over it.

Can the civilians who harbored Hamas be any more innocent than the Nazis who looked the other way when millions were rounded up and sent to the death camps? 

Your question is as incendiary as you asking if Israeli civilians bear responsibility for the condition of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and its contribution to war after war after war.  And, as unhelpful.

[Smokin Joe]

But, this is not WWII @Smokin Joe   This is a 56 year old regional conflict over a sliver of territory the size of  Newark ---- in a part of the world renowned for centuries-old layers of blood grudges on all sides.  Please fight the urge to conflate this with WWII.    Please also fight the urge to trigger WWIII over it.

Your question is as incendiary as you asking if Israeli civilians bear responsibility for the condition of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and its contribution to war after war after war.  And, as unhelpful.

Well, that was unconvincing.

IF we cannot learn from the parallels in this millennia old conflict with other conflicts, then we cannot apply history to learn a damned thing.

But then, the one lesson History gives us is that people consistently DO NOT learn from History.

Have a nice day.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Have a nice day.

Will do. 

[Bigun]

Well, that was unconvincing.

IF we cannot learn from the parallels in this millennia old conflict with other conflicts, then we cannot apply history to learn a damned thing.

But then, the one lesson History gives us is that people consistently DO NOT learn from History.

Have a nice day.

 

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.

Aldous Huxley

[Right_in_Virginia]

Aldous Huxley

Is there ever a point where we try to fit current conflicts into history like a square peg into a round hole?

@Bigun

[Smokin Joe]

Is there ever a point where we try to fit current conflicts into history like a square peg into a round hole?

@Bigun

You mean like comparing 1/6 to 9/11?

It all depends on whether you are looking at History, or some Fable people have been selling.

Those who bought into the Fable aren't learning from History, because the Fable is not what happened.  Fairy Tales do not teach the lessons of History, but that doesn't stop the peg pounding.

[Bigun]

You mean like comparing 1/6 to 9/11?

It all depends on whether you are looking at History, or some Fable people have been selling.

Those who bought into the Fable aren't learning from History, because the Fable is not what happened.  Fairy Tales do not teach the lessons of History, but that doesn't stop the peg pounding.

Fables (propaganda) are very often substituted for actual history and that benefits nobody over the long haul. In fact, that practice has been extremely harmful to the human family over time.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You mean like comparing 1/6 to 9/11?

It all depends on whether you are looking at History, or some Fable people have been selling.

In part, yes @Smokin Joe   For instance, I'm struggling to see how WWII fits into a 56 year old conflict over real estate the size of Newark when contnuous conflict fits the political agenda of both sides.

Is there a history/fable line in this?

[mystery-ak]

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·
6m
#BREAKING: IDF spokesman says Israeli forces have 'completed dismantling of Hamas military framework ' in the northern Gaza Strip

[mystery-ak]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
·
41m
Horror in Gaza: Hamas built giant cages for Israeli hostages, @kann_news
 reports (via @RotterNet
); IDF soldiers discovered the cages during operations across Gaza.

[Hoodat]

You mean like comparing 1/6 to 9/11?

It all depends on whether you are looking at History, or some Fable people have been selling.

Exactly.  Take the same Democrat talking points from 9/11 blaming Bush for the attack.  Then replace the word 'Bush' with the word 'Netanyahu' and post the exact same Democrat argument here.

[libertybele]

Hamas command in north Gaza destroyed, Israel says

The Israeli army says it has "completed the dismantling" of Hamas's command structure in the northern Gaza Strip.

Army spokesman Daniel Hagari told reporters that Palestinian militants are now operating in the area only sporadically and "without commanders".

He said Israel had killed around 8,000 militants in north Gaza. The BBC cannot independently verify this number.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) are now focused on dismantling Hamas in south and central Gaza, he said.

Israel has killed more than 22,000 people since the war began, according to the Hamas-run health ministry. On Saturday it said it had recorded more than 120 deaths over the past 24 hours.

The territory has been devastated and most of the population of 2.3 million has been displaced.

Israel's offensive started after Hamas gunmen launched a surprise attack on southern Israel on 7 October, killing 1,200 people, most of them civilians, and taking about 240 people hostage.

More than 120 remain, following agreed releases.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated on Saturday that Israel would continue its campaign to "eliminate Hamas, return our hostages and ensure that Gaza will no longer be a threat to Israel"..............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67904259

[Cyber Liberty]

Hamas command in north Gaza destroyed, Israel says

The Israeli army says it has "completed the dismantling" of Hamas's command structure in the northern Gaza Strip.

Army spokesman Daniel Hagari told reporters that Palestinian militants are now operating in the area only sporadically and "without commanders".

He said Israel had killed around 8,000 militants in north Gaza. The BBC cannot independently verify this number.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) are now focused on dismantling Hamas in south and central Gaza, he said.

Israel has killed more than 22,000 people since the war began, according to the Hamas-run health ministry. On Saturday it said it had recorded more than 120 deaths over the past 24 hours.

The territory has been devastated and most of the population of 2.3 million has been displaced.

Israel's offensive started after Hamas gunmen launched a surprise attack on southern Israel on 7 October, killing 1,200 people, most of them civilians, and taking about 240 people hostage.

More than 120 remain, following agreed releases.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated on Saturday that Israel would continue its campaign to "eliminate Hamas, return our hostages and ensure that Gaza will no longer be a threat to Israel"..............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67904259

We'll see about that....

[Elderberry]

Israel Radar
@IsraelRadar_com
 
Senior Israeli officers via @WallaNews: Time to change military focus from Gaza to Lebanon, shift IDF operations from defense to offense; diplomacy will not work, Hezbollah must pay painful price & feel the pressure

Israel should prepare forces for action on Lebanon front, the senior officers say, advance operational plans for war vs. Hezbollah; important meetings were held this week, some strike plans already approved.

[Elderberry]

Gaza War Lessons: Israel’s New Border Defense Strategy

 ISRAEL RADAR

Israel is set to transform its border security doctrine following the collapse of defenses on October 7. The government instructed the IDF to embark on a sweeping plan to revamp protective measures, Ynet reports.

The new strategy involves significant changes on the Gaza and Lebanon borders, aiming to fortify the nation’s defenses against potential threats.

Thousands of soldiers will be deployed to secure each frontier, well above previous numbers. This will require the IDF to mobilize dozens of reserve battalions to reinforce security missions in both regions, the report says.

The IDF is also boosting its presence on the Jordanian border to counter possible Iran axis attacks.

Securing the Gaza border

The most ambitious project is unfolding along the Gaza border, where the IDF is reshaping the entire frontier. Aiming to establish a whole new defense line, the army is undertaking extensive engineering work to construct a buffer zone inside Gaza.

Across the Gaza Strip, Israeli forces are engaged in substantial demolition of areas used as terror bases for launching attacks. This entails significant destruction in districts such as Shujaiya, a former Hamas stronghold in northern Gaza.

The IDF is particularly focused on Gaza towns used as launchpads for raids on nearby Israeli communities on October 7. Forces deployed at these border regions are engaged in intensive efforts to eradicate terror sites and destroy civilian locations that could be exploited for future attacks.

More: https://israelradar.com/gaza-war-lessons-israels-new-border-defense-strategy/

[Elderberry]

Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian

Troops operating in Gaza City have discovered what the Israeli military says are technological equipment and components used by Hamas to build accurate missiles, a capability which until now the terror group was not believed to possess.

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1743965395550179405

[Elderberry]

Israel Defense Forces
@IDF

“We have a duty to defend our people, if not through diplomatic means, then through the force of arms. The diplomatic window may be short, but it’s still open.”

A special message from IDF Spokesperson RAdm. Daniel Hagari:

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1743899733888840021

[Elderberry]

i24NEWS English
@i24NEWS_EN
 
'The inevitably of war is once again Hezbollahs goal to destroy Israel and our unwillingness to be destroyed'

Major (Res.) Elliot Chodoff discusses the escalation on Israel's northern front after #Hezbollah fires 40 rockets in response to the killing of Al-Arouri

https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1743912951499620778

[mountaineer]

Photo proves Hamas using North Korea-made weapons against Israel, South Korea says

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1744365652868047022