GOP Speaker race (October '23): Live coverage

[roamer_1]

So you'd prefer a democrat then. 

I'd prefer a notable difference between Republicans and Democrats... A different course from the SNAFU'd normalcy of capitulation and collusion...

[Kamaji]

That is not guaranteed, and if it happens I put it squarely on McCarthy. He could have held things together, he chose not to because he thought he could not lose.

Nope.  If it happens, that goes squarely to Gaetz and his merry band of spoilt children.

[Free Vulcan]

Hypocrites on what point?

That they expect conservatives to do what they're told, but refuse to do what they're told when it's time to buck up and get in line.

Scalise and Jordan are the choices moderates, pick one, get in line, do what you're told.

[Free Vulcan]

Nope.  If it happens, that goes squarely to Gaetz and his merry band of spoilt children.

Sorry, McCarthy was in charge, the buck stops with him.

[Kamaji]

That they expect conservatives to do what they're told, but refuse to do what they're told when it's time to buck up and get in line.

Scalise and Jordan are the choices moderates, pick one, get in line, do what you're told.

Why should they do what a tiny minority demands they do, particularly when that tiny minority refused to look to the greater good.

Face facts, however much you may be in sympathy with the conservatives in Congress, they are the minority, which means they don't get to demand things get done their way, and they are proving themselves singularly incapable of that one great skill that every successful minority has to have:  the ability to persuade.

Throwing childish fits and screaming "give me what I want or I'm taking my ball home" is not how leaders act; it's how spoilt little children act, and right now, Gaetz and Co. are nothing more than spoilt little children.  Adults have no obligation to go along with the temper tantrums of spoilt little children.

[Bigun]

Why should they do what a tiny minority demands they do, particularly when that tiny minority refused to look to the greater good.

Face facts, however much you may be in sympathy with the conservatives in Congress, they are the minority, which means they don't get to demand things get done their way, and they are proving themselves singularly incapable of that one great skill that every successful minority has to have:  the ability to persuade.

Throwing childish fits and screaming "give me what I want or I'm taking my ball home" is not how leaders act; it's how spoilt little children act, and right now, Gaetz and Co. are nothing more than spoilt little children.  Adults have no obligation to go along with the temper tantrums of spoilt little children.

Conservatives are in the minority in congress because the establishment stacks the deck to make sure conservatives don't get elected! No other reason!

[Free Vulcan]

Why should they do what a tiny minority demands they do, particularly when that tiny minority refused to look to the greater good.

Face facts, however much you may be in sympathy with the conservatives in Congress, they are the minority, which means they don't get to demand things get done their way, and they are proving themselves singularly incapable of that one great skill that every successful minority has to have:  the ability to persuade.

Throwing childish fits and screaming "give me what I want or I'm taking my ball home" is not how leaders act; it's how spoilt little children act, and right now, Gaetz and Co. are nothing more than spoilt little children.  Adults have no obligation to go along with the temper tantrums of spoilt little children.

Because the Establishment demanded it for all these years, especially with their John McCain 'Gang of X' antics.

Nothing is being done back to them that they haven't done for decades, including McCarthy. They just think they're entitled to do it and conservatives are not, and just don't like staring into the mirror at their  own hypocrisy.

[libertybele]

We've been "following the majority" for a LONG time now and it's done nothing but get worse and worse for conservatives. To hell with following the majority!

Amen!

[Maj. Bill Martin]

When has there been a conservative Speaker since Gingrich?

That's not an answer to the question.  But fine, we'll do it this way.

My answer would be yes - Paul Ryan.  At least on fiscal issues.  Other than him, there hasn't been a conservative Speaker since Gingrich.  But the question is why.

Was there a conservative candidate for Speaker who had majority support, but who the moderates refused to support. And if so, who/when was that?

Or is it just that voters didn't elect enough conservative representatives, so that no conservative could get majority support for Speaker?  Because if the reason is just that the conservatives couldn't get a majority, then a non-conservative Speaker is tyranny of the majority, not the minority.

[Hoodat]

Why should they do what a tiny minority demands they do, particularly when that tiny minority refused to look to the greater good.

The only thing McCarthy was asked to do was to keep his word.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The only thing McCarthy was asked to do was to keep his word.

The issue is/was voting against him 14 times until he made promises that gave preferential treatment to a handful of holdouts.   It was either accede to that, or have the House without a Speaker.

In any case, I suspect some of those who supported McCarthy are going to give the Jordan the same treatment Gaetz gave McCarthy in January.  Or just refuse to vote for him at all.

They've got the leverage.

[Kamaji]

Because the Establishment demanded it for all these years, especially with their John McCain 'Gang of X' antics.

Nothing is being done back to them that they haven't done for decades, including McCarthy. They just think they're entitled to do it and conservatives are not, and just don't like staring into the mirror at their  own hypocrisy.

Spoilt little children who, not having the wherewithal to persuade, stamp their little feet and demand what they cannot have.

What a shame. 

[Free Vulcan]

That's not an answer to the question.  But fine, we'll do it this way.

My answer would be yes - Paul Ryan.  At least on fiscal issues.  Other than him, there hasn't been a conservative Speaker since Gingrich.  But the question is why.

Was there a conservative candidate for Speaker who had majority support, but who the moderates refused to support. And if so, who/when was that?

Or is it just that voters didn't elect enough conservative representatives, so that no conservative could get majority support for Speaker?  Because if the reason is just that the conservatives couldn't get a majority, then a non-conservative Speaker is tyranny of the majority, not the minority.

Tom Delay was one who wouldn't get the support of the majority because he was too conservative, which is why he had to put up the more milquetoast Denny Hastert, and we all know how that turned out.

[Free Vulcan]

Spoilt little children who, not having the wherewithal to persuade, stamp their little feet and demand what they cannot have.

What a shame.

Versus cocky frat boys who think they can do what they please and talk out of both sides of their mouth? Sorry if I don't agree to that choice.

That's what got McCarthy into trouble, he agreed to stand alone funding bills and then reneged on that. He was dealing with Dems under the table. Even Nancy Mace called him out on those.

But everyone just wanted to go along in unity, with the pack because he's our guy!

[Free Vulcan]

The issue is/was voting against him 14 times until he made promises that gave preferential treatment to a handful of holdouts.   It was either accede to that, or have the House without a Speaker.

In any case, I suspect some of those who supported McCarthy are going to give the Jordan the same treatment Gaetz gave McCarthy in January.  Or just refuse to vote for him at all.

They've got the leverage.

And how is that any different than some 'Gang of X' turdblossom deal?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Tom Delay was one who wouldn't get the support of the majority because he was too conservative, which is why he had to put up the more milquetoast Denny Hastert, and we all know how that turned out.

Which backs up my point, not yours.  Delay didn't even run - he supported Hastert.

[Kamaji]

Versus cocky frat boys who think they can do what they please and talk out of both sides of their mouth? Sorry if I don't agree to that choice.

That's what got McCarthy into trouble, he agreed to stand alone funding bills and then reneged on that. He was dealing with Dems under the table. Even Nancy Mace called him out on those.

But everyone just wanted to go along in unity, with the pack because he's our guy!

Spoilt little children who don't have a plan - or the ability - to do anything other than f**k things up.  Gaetz just f**ked things up, without being able to solve anything or put any plan into place, other than some hopium that maybe the majority of the GOP would finally suffer enough Stockholm Syndrome to go along with what the spoilt children wanted.

Maybe if conservatives learned some of the finer points of actually leading, and persuading others, they might actually start getting someplace.  Until then, they're just spoilt little children.

[libertybele]

The only thing McCarthy was asked to do was to keep his word.

...and he didn't on several occasions and that's why he got booted.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Could you update the title of this ongoing thread @Cyber Liberty?

Thanks.

[Free Vulcan]

Which backs up my point, not yours.  Delay didn't even run - he supported Hastert.

Because again, the moderates wouldn't accept him, proving my point.

It's a one way street with these guys.

[Cyber Liberty]

Could you update the title of this ongoing thread @Cyber Liberty?

Thanks.

The problem I have is that it will probably be wrong again in 3 days....

[Right_in_Virginia]

The problem I have is that it will probably be wrong again in 3 days....

I only ask because it's confusing the hell out of some of our guests 

How about something like "GOP Speaker Race"?

@Cyber Liberty

[Cyber Liberty]

I only ask because it's confusing the hell out of some of our guests 

How about something like "GOP Speaker Race"?

@Cyber Liberty

That sounds doable.