Trump: ‘I Did’ Hire the Best People and Most of My Hires Were Good, But ‘I Didn’t Know’ Washington L

[DCPatriot]

That's a convenient excuse for Trump's own ignorance/incompetence.  He may have the desire to get rid of the "swamp", but he never bothered educating himself, or coming up with a detailed plan of action.  That's just not who he is, and it is a fatal flaw.

Your explanation/excuse for Trump's failure also is a 100% defeatist attitude.  Because if he can't clean it up himself, and everything else is corrupt, then his second term is doomed.

Coming from outside government is a weak excuse.   A man his age aspiring to the Presidency should have a large network of capable and loyal friends, who themselves know more good, capable people.

But that ain't Trump.  Just look at the guy - who are his close friends?  Who is/was his circle of acquaintances of sharp people?  He doesn't have them because he doesn't play well with anyone except those who occupy a much lower station in life.  He loves playing the noblesse oblige role of giving stuff away to working class people, because they are no threat/competition for him.   But other alpha types, who aren't just going to play to his ego?  Nope.  Doesn't get along with them.

Forget about government and Trump's "lack of experience.". Look at the professionals with whom he surrounded himself as a private businessman.  The Mooch?  Michael Cohen??  What the hell does that say about Trump's judgment/ability to form relationships with "consigliere" types?   It doesn't exist.

Trump's personal shortcomings are what will continue to make him a terrible choice to clean out "the swamp".

@Maj. Bill Martin

Where was all your vehemence toward the man while he was POTUS? 

In fact, you used to be one of the steadiest posters in any conversation/thread.

...it's like you sold your moniker to a government agent or something.   

[roamer_1]

There are certainly FAR fewer people with any integrity
than there are jobs to be filled!
[...]
The DC Swamp systematically weeds out everyone with ANY integrity!
The DC Swamp is a PARASITE, at best!  America is the host.

So close to realizing a real and abiding truth...
All you need to add is the understanding that this is the nature of government.
All government. Always.

How is all our political intrigue any different than the royals of Medieval times?
It's always just the same... An elite group, considering themselves above the hoi polloi who use power to take from those under their jurisdiction.

The kind of people who gravitate to that system are seeking ease and power and control. It's the way they're wired in order to be interested in that kind of thing.

VERY FEW are really patriots seeking selflessly to right the ship. Always very few.

[massadvj]

Let's say you were to venture outside the classroom for the first time in your life to run a global private sector construction corporation.  Where would you look for staffing assistance @massadvj ?

I was a conservative in an extremely liberal institution and survived to retirement. When there was a professor strike in Pennsylvania, I stayed and worked, Afterwards, there were grumblings but everyone knew me as a conservative/libertarian, so I was mostly given a pass.

I say these things because I know what it is like to be a "black sheep" in an institutional setting.  Sometimes administrators come in and want to upend things in a dramatic way, and they usually fail because institutions operate with inertia and processes that have to be navigated.

Conservatives can navigate the federal institutions.  Reagan did. He came in as an outsider and made a big difference. Sure, he did not accomplish all that I would have wanted, but how many of Reagan's appointees hated him when his presidency was done?  Among Republicans, there is a consensus that his face ought to be on Mount Rushmore. 

OK, so I accept that collaboration is not Trump's style. He is a disruptor. That might be a good thing. But will anyone who really understands how to navigate the deep state be willing to work for the guy? If you are going to take a wrecking ball to the establishment you had better know what targets to hit, which ones to avoid, and when to time your strikes. Otherwise the whole system turns on you, basically rigs the election rules and uses its legitimacy to get rid of you, and you are rendered ineffective.

I have seen nothing in Trump that tells me he has learned his lesson in this regard.

[GtHawk]

Agreed. He wasn't running a corp any longer. I really think his ego is so large that he thinks people will be loyal and love him because of who he is. That, in reality was probably never true.

I have heard an old saying that if you want love and loyalty in DC...get a dog.

One important thing is you don't kick your dog.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

Where was all your vehemence toward the man while he was POTUS? 

In fact, you used to be one of the steadiest posters in any conversation/thread.

...it's like you sold your moniker to a government agent or something.   

Because I had hoped to see the guy learn and grow into the office.  I had hoped that the 2016 campaign -- and I was definitely not a fan of his back then and had to be convinced to vote for him -- would turn out to be just tactics, and an anomaly in terms of how he would actually govern.  I hoped he would spend his 4 years quickly getting up to speed on our Constitutional/legal system, finding the right allies, giving them power, and treating them properly, etc..

Instead -- and this has accelerated since the 2020 election -- all of his bad traits have been amplified, and I can no longer ignore the evidence staring me in the face.  The excuse of "well, he just needed more time to figure things out and hire the right people..."  Okay, then what's his excuse for Cohen and the Mooch?  He grew up in New York, had decades to find and hire good people...and that's the best he could do?  Seriously??  And where are the new and improved battery of competent advisors surrounding him, showing us all that this time will be different?  Michael Flynn?  Mike Lindell???

I've watched him rapidly alienate every single competent person who isn't 100% on board with him personally, or tells him something he doesn't want to here.  Politicians, former member of his own Administration, competent lawyers...he's alienated them all.  There is no way he will even be able to build a competent administration based only on sycophants, but that is the only route left open to him.  It's a complete dead-end.

I don't even see a decent counter-argument to this.  The sole response I see is some folks saying "I think he's learned his lesson", without any support or evidence behind it, and ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I was a conservative in an extremely liberal institution and survived to retirement. When there was a professor strike in Pennsylvania, I stayed and worked, Afterwards, there were grumblings but everyone knew me as a conservative/libertarian, so I was mostly given a pass.

I say these things because I know what it is like to be a "black sheep" in an institutional setting.  Sometimes administrators come in and want to upend things in a dramatic way, and they usually fail because institutions operate with inertia and processes that have to be navigated.

Conservatives can navigate the federal institutions.  Reagan did. He came in as an outsider and made a big difference. Sure, he did not accomplish all that I would have wanted, but how many of Reagan's appointees hated him when his presidency was done?  Among Republicans, there is a consensus that his face ought to be on Mount Rushmore. 

OK, so I accept that collaboration is not Trump's style. He is a disruptor. That might be a good thing. But will anyone who really understands how to navigate the deep state be willing to work for the guy? If you are going to take a wrecking ball to the establishment you had better know what targets to hit, which ones to avoid, and when to time your strikes. Otherwise the whole system turns on you, basically rigs the election rules and uses its legitimacy to get rid of you, and you are rendered ineffective.

I have seen nothing in Trump that tells me he has learned his lesson in this regard.

Thank you for your interesting reply @massadvj   But, my question was a simple one ----- and wasn't answered.  Respectfully, I ask again:

Let's say you were to venture outside the classroom for the first time in your life to run a global private sector construction corporation.  Where would you look for staffing assistance @massadvj ?

[bigheadfred]

@massadvj  @Right_in_Virginia

I don't know that Trump really wants to be more than a bull in the China shop. At least initially. And if that brings some measure of success, where will he go from there? Sourcing help will be very problematic, IMO.

DeSantis is has indicated he will shop outside the DC bubble. Again, I wonder how or where he can/will find anyone who can pass muster?

One temporary appointment after another, in both the cases of Trump and DeSantis,  will all only be a s show.

[Bigun]

I was a conservative in an extremely liberal institution and survived to retirement. When there was a professor strike in Pennsylvania, I stayed and worked, Afterwards, there were grumblings but everyone knew me as a conservative/libertarian, so I was mostly given a pass.

I say these things because I know what it is like to be a "black sheep" in an institutional setting.  Sometimes administrators come in and want to upend things in a dramatic way, and they usually fail because institutions operate with inertia and processes that have to be navigated.

Conservatives can navigate the federal institutions.  Reagan did. He came in as an outsider and made a big difference. Sure, he did not accomplish all that I would have wanted, but how many of Reagan's appointees hated him when his presidency was done?  Among Republicans, there is a consensus that his face ought to be on Mount Rushmore. 

OK, so I accept that collaboration is not Trump's style. He is a disruptor. That might be a good thing. But will anyone who really understands how to navigate the deep state be willing to work for the guy? If you are going to take a wrecking ball to the establishment you had better know what targets to hit, which ones to avoid, and when to time your strikes. Otherwise the whole system turns on you, basically rigs the election rules and uses its legitimacy to get rid of you, and you are rendered ineffective.

I have seen nothing in Trump that tells me he has learned his lesson in this regard.

I'm also retired from a major university in Texas and know many like you @massadvj you are speaking the truth here. I saw it first hand for more than 22 years.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@massadvj  @Right_in_Virginia

I don't know that Trump really wants to be more than a bull in the China shop. At least initially. And if that brings some measure of success, where will he go from there? Sourcing help will be very problematic, IMO.

DeSantis is has indicated he will shop outside the DC bubble. Again, I wonder how or where he can/will find anyone who can pass muster?

One temporary appointment after another, in both the cases of Trump and DeSantis,  will all only be a s show.

I'm just going to say that it is a defeatist myth that everyone affiliated with D.C. in any way is corrupt.  There are good people out there.  There also are some good, experienced people out there at the state level.  Any aspiring Presidential candidate should have built up a personal network of competent people they like, know, and trust.  If they haven't, that is completely on them.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Let's say you were to venture outside the classroom for the first time in your life to run a global private sector construction corporation.  Where would you look for staffing assistance @massadvj ?

Trick question.

Because nobody with half a brain would try to run a global private sector construction corporation without first spending a lot of time and effort learning about the industry, and building the right kind of relationships with smart, capable people in that industry.  Learn about the job before you take on that responsibility.

Trump had more than 18 months from the time he declared for office to the time he was inaugurated to do that with respect to the federal government.  I'm convinced he did literally none of that.  To this day, he seems to lack a basic understanding of our Constitutional/legal system.  It just doesn't seem to interest him.  He apparently believes his desires alone should be enough to accomplish what he wishes, and he gets very angry whenever that turns out not to be true.

[massadvj]

Thank you for your interesting reply @massadvj   But, my question was a simple one ----- and wasn't answered.  Respectfully, I ask again:

I have always been of the opinion that you hire the person with the best resume based on the requirements of the job. There is no one source for people. Different jobs will have different requirements. But you definitely do not want to be in a position where the most qualified people in the job pool would have no interest in working for you.

My fear with Trump is that the people with the best resumes will not work for him.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

My fear with Trump is that the people with the best resumes will not work for him.

Yup.

Ever worked for someone who got vicious any time someone tells them something they don't want to hear?  Or believes you're just bullshitting them when you tell them why something they want to do cannot work, or you suggest a better way?

Why the hell would any competent person want to work for someone like that?

[Bigun]

I have always been of the opinion that you hire the person with the best resume based on the requirements of the job. There is no one source for people. Different jobs will have different requirements. But you definitely do not want to be in a position where the most qualified people in the job pool would have no interest in working for you.

My fear with Trump is that the people with the best resumes will not work for him.

You are leaving out something very important here @massadvj . We both know that having the best resume is far from what decides who gets hired for what. It's true in academia and equally true in government. Getting hired means getting through the screening forces that are ALL aligned to prevent someone that does not conform from getting hired regardless of his resume.

[massadvj]

Yup.

Ever worked for someone who got vicious any time someone tells them something they don't want to hear?  Or believes you're just bullshitting them when you tell them why something they want to do cannot work, or you suggest a better way?

Why the hell would any competent person want to work for someone like that?

It is even worse with Trump. You cannot find a single high-level appointee from his administration -- including his VP, attorneys general, defense secretary, chiefs of staff, UN secretary and national defense advisors -- who isn't bitter from the experience. 

[roamer_1]

Yup.

Ever worked for someone who got vicious any time someone tells them something they don't want to hear?  Or believes you're just bullshitting them when you tell them why something they want to do cannot work, or you suggest a better way?

Why the hell would any competent person want to work for someone like that?

Yeah... I'd walk right off. Guaranteed the project will crater under that kind of leadership... and there won't be any money in it.

[massadvj]

You are leaving out something very important here @massadvj . We both know that having the best resume is far from what decides who gets hired for what. It's true in academia and equally true in government. Getting hired means getting through the screening forces that are ALL aligned to prevent someone that does not conform from getting hired regardless of his resume.

I was a known, published conservative and I got through. But I will say I once was a visiting prof at Penn State and I probably did not get a tenure track offer because of my political orientation.

The conformity requirements you speak of are institutional job requirements, for all intents and purposes. Decisions are largely made by committees.

The president can hire whomever he wants. He can create his own list of requirements.

As an example, let's say I want an energy secretary. I want someone who fully understands the industry, but I also want someone who is skeptical of the "Green New Deal" and has the capacity to cut all that out -- maybe without the help of congress -- and must also navigate the hostile media as well.  This is likely someone who does not need money, or the headaches, but wants to make a contribution for the good of the country.  Will that person be willing to work for Trump, after seeing the experiences of Trump's former cabinet members? Someone will, sure. But the most qualified guy in the pool? I don't think so.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Yeah... I'd walk right off. Guaranteed the project will crater under that kind of leadership... and there won't be any money in it.

I think that's just who Trump is.  I don't know why he is so hypersensitive and defensive...but he is.  And I think we've seen him for long enough now to know there's no way he's going to change.

[Right_in_Virginia]

i
@massadvj  @Right_in_Virginia

I don't know that Trump really wants to be more than a bull in the China shop. At least initially. And if that brings some measure of success, where will he go from there? Sourcing help will be very problematic, IMO.

I think the bull in the china shop actually starts with Trump's second term and continues unabated until he accomplishes his goals vis-a-vis the corrupt federal administrative state.

What Trump didn't recognize in his first term was the rampant corruption running through his own political party, not just the demonrats.   In business, especially the C Suite level, winners of contests and power struggles are winners and the runner-ups rally around the good of the corporation and profits or they leave, most times voluntarily. 

In Washington, especially dealing with a POTUS, the game is to damage and wait him out.  This has usually come from the opposition party and is to be expected.  But, what becomes clearer with each passing day is the Republican Party is uniquely without honor, has no true North and less than zero respect and concern for its constituents.  It is far worse a political party than the democrats.

Trump knows this now better than any other soul on this planet.  It's why I predict if Trump takes the oath on Jan 20, 2025, he will leave behind a fundamentally transformed Federal government in 2029.  And we will be better off for it, if we can keep it.

@bigheadfred

[Right_in_Virginia]

I have always been of the opinion that you hire the person with the best resume based on the requirements of the job. There is no one source for people. Different jobs will have different requirements. But you definitely do not want to be in a position where the most qualified people in the job pool would have no interest in working for you.

My fear with Trump is that the people with the best resumes will not work for him.

Resumes are where it begins.  Would you not seek and also rely on referrals and input from those in the industry?

Would someone in a position to know vouching for an applicant carry weight with you  @massadvj

And, bear in mind, I'm asking these questions not about what you would do in academia, but what you would do if you had left your world and entered the private sector to run a global construction corporation.

[massadvj]

You are leaving out something very important here @massadvj . We both know that having the best resume is far from what decides who gets hired for what. It's true in academia and equally true in government. Getting hired means getting through the screening forces that are ALL aligned to prevent someone that does not conform from getting hired regardless of his resume.

But the subject of the thread is Trump specifically, and who he hired. Sure, he is government. But he can hire whomever he wants. Even if he gets pushback from the senate, he can always do a recess appointment. He is in charge of the "screening forces." 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

But the subject of the thread is Trump specifically, and who he hired. Sure, he is government. But he can hire whomever he wants. Even if he gets pushback from the senate, he can always do a recess appointment. He is in charge of the "screening forces."

The "tell" is all the appointments he made that didn't require Senate confirmation at all.  They don't seem to have fared any better.

[libertybele]

It is even worse with Trump. You cannot find a single high-level appointee from his administration -- including his VP, attorneys general, defense secretary, chiefs of staff, UN secretary and national defense advisors -- who isn't bitter from the experience.

Bitter?  They performed poorly period.  I can't blame that on Trump, the blame does fall at his feet though for picking them.

[massadvj]

I think the bull in the china shop actually starts with Trump's second term and continues unabated until he accomplishes his goals vis-a-vis the corrupt federal administrative state.

What Trump didn't recognize in his first term was the rampant corruption running through his own political party, not just the demonrats.   In business, especially the C Suite level, winners of contests and power struggles are winners and the runner-ups rally around the good of the corporation and profits or they leave, most times voluntarily. 

In Washington, especially dealing with a POTUS, the game is to damage and wait him out.  This has usually come from the opposition party and is to be expected.  But, what becomes clearer with each passing day is the Republican Party is uniquely without honor, has no true North and less than zero respect and concern for its constituents.  It is far worse a political party than the democrats.

Trump knows this now better than any other soul on this planet.  It's why I predict if Trump takes the oath on Jan 20, 2025, he will leave behind a fundamentally transformed Federal government in 2029.  And we will be better off for it, if we can keep it.

I largely agree with this assessment, but I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you think Trump himself is at least partly to blame for so many people in the party turning on him?
2. How will Trump win in 2024 without the 20-40 percent of the GOP that hates him? Sure, he will likely win the primary, but where does he find the votes in the general election?

My own take is that if Trump manages to get the nomination, and then he is also able to get a reconciliation with the rest of the GOP (which will require concessions), and then a unified party is able to win the general election against a weakened left, so much the better. I am all for it.

I think step one is likely, but steps two and three are very unlikely.

[Bigun]

I was a known, published conservative and I got through. But I will say I once was a visiting prof at Penn State and I probably did not get a tenure track offer because of my political orientation.

The conformity requirements you speak of are institutional job requirements, for all intents and purposes. Decisions are largely made by committees.

Absolutely correct @massadvj ! Couldn't agree more! And it's very much the same with government institutions.

The president can hire whomever he wants. He can create his own list of requirements.

No! He cannot! He can only pick from the pool of senate approved candidates. Same as in at the university.

As an example, let's say I want an energy secretary. I want someone who fully understands the industry, but I also want someone who is skeptical of the "Green New Deal" and has the capacity to cut all that out -- maybe without the help of congress -- and must also navigate the hostile media as well.  This is likely someone who does not need money, or the headaches, but wants to make a contribution for the good of the country.  Will that person be willing to work for Trump, after seeing the experiences of Trump's former cabinet members? Someone will, sure. But the most qualified guy in the pool? I don't think so.

Those people very likely exist (those such as you describe willing to work for Trump) even having seen it all but will never have the opportunity because they will be screened out by the forces aligned to protect the establishment.

Hell! You can't even get advanced degrees now unless you submit to playing the game!

[Right_in_Virginia]

I largely agree with this assessment, but I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you think Trump himself is at least partly to blame for so many people in the party turning on him?

Based on my knowledge, understanding and experience with the Republican Party the simple answer is: "No"

2. How will Trump win in 2024 without the 20-40 percent of the GOP that hates him? Sure, he will likely win the primary, but where does he find the votes in the general election?

This is a silly question at this point.  And not supported by the math.

My own take is that if Trump manages to get the nomination, and then he is also able to get a reconciliation with the rest of the GOP (which will require concessions)

I think your take is incorrect.  Reconciliation will come from those opposing him, or not at all.  There will be no kumbaya concessions from Trump.