DeSantis in Iowa Warns of GOP ‘Culture of Losing' as Weather Sidelines Trump's Event in the State

[Right_in_Virginia]

Fair enough.  Still, there is a solid contingent of MAGA that, in what is just another blatant act of hypocrisy, have said they will not vote for DeSantis if he, rather than Trump, is the nominee.

Could MAGA be learning from DeSantards?

I reluctantly voted for Trump in '16 and willingly in '20 as I felt he had this country pulled in a positive direction.

He will not receive another vote from me.  Notta.  Just not going to happen.

@libertybele

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Could MAGA be learning from DeSantards?

Most DeSantis supporters I know will vote for Trump if he's the nominee.  That group of us here who feel differently are definitely in the minority.  However, the MAGA view that they won't vote for anyone but Trump in the general election seems to be by far the most commonly held opinion.  That's how I see it, at least.  Additionally....

You are at least consistent in how you view DeSantis.  You don't like him, don't want him to be Trump's running mate in 2024, and wouldn't vote for him even if he was the nominee in 2028.  If you think a guy is that bad, you shouldn't vote for him, period.  And that's how a lot of the rest of us feel about Trump.  Not going to vote for someone we think will make things worse.

However, you seem to be more the exception than the rule among much of MAGA.  I've read tons of those people saying 1) I won't vote for DeSantis in 2024 if he beats Trump for the nomination, but 2) I'd like to see him as Trump's running mate, and/or support him when he runs in 2028.  That's the POV that is really messed up, because it essentially means the person believes DeSantis would be a good President, but won't vote for him simply because he beat Trump.  And that's elevating a single person over the future of the Republic.

[cato potatoe]

Also if MAGA was really popular, Dr Oz would be a Senator along with Walker and Masters. Also, Kari Lake would be Gov. Instead they lost and GOP underperformed in 2022 big time.

The MAGA crowd treats 2020 as a litmus test.  Either you are deluded into thinking it was stolen (by seven million votes) or you are persona non grata.  Of course, election denial makes a candidate toxic in the general, as we saw a few months ago.  But MAGA is delusional about the midterms also.  The party can never move on unless and until these people choose to dwell in reality.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Definitely... there'll be a core-group of dead-enders and holdouts who will scream "foul" whenever the Orange Odin loses.

I think that's what DeSantis means when he's talking about the "culture of losing".  There are a fair number of people out there who, when pressed, believe that there is no way any Republican can win in 2024 because the Democrats can cheat enough to overcome any true voter preference for a Republican.  That's just another way of saying "a loss is guaranteed, so why bother".  And I think he is rightly challenging that.

If the Democrats truly had that much control, why didn't they give themselves 60 votes in the Senate?  Why let Republicans control the House and be able to stymie the left's legislative agenda?  Sure, Democrats cheat, and Republicans have to win by more than the margin of cheating. But that has always been the case.  Hell, as corrupt an election machine as Mayor Daley's Chicago was, Reagan still managed to take it in 1984 because his support overwhelmed the Dems' ability to cheat.

The ability of Democrats to cheat is not an excuse for not running the most electable conservative.

[Kamaji]

I think that's what DeSantis means when he's talking about the "culture of losing".  There are a fair number of people out there who, when pressed, believe that there is no way any Republican can win in 2024 because the Democrats can cheat enough to overcome any true voter preference for a Republican.  That's just another way of saying "a loss is guaranteed, so why bother".  And I think he is rightly challenging that.

If the Democrats truly had that much control, why didn't they give themselves 60 votes in the Senate?  Why let Republicans control the House and be able to stymie the left's legislative agenda?  Sure, Democrats cheat, and Republicans have to win by more than the margin of cheating. But that has always been the case.  Hell, as corrupt an election machine as Mayor Daley's Chicago was, Reagan still managed to take it in 1984 because his support overwhelmed the Dems' ability to cheat.

The ability of Democrats to cheat is not an excuse for not running the most electable conservative.

[catfish1957]

Most DeSantis supporters I know will vote for Trump if he's the nominee.  That group of us here who feel differently are definitely in the minority.  However, the MAGA view that they won't vote for anyone but Trump in the general election seems to be by far the most commonly held opinion.  That's how I see it, at least.  Additionally....

I took that approach, but his recent insane proposed intitatives have convinced me he is nothing but an orange Trojan horse, and will take us off the financial cliff just as quickly as our dimocratic enemies. 

Hold my nose and pull it for Trump this time?  Hell No.  I am almost 100% sure there will be a Constitutional or Libertarian candidate who will be more conservative.  They will get my vote.  Not the Cheetos colored charlatan.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The MAGA crowd treats 2020 as a litmus test.  Either you are deluded into thinking it was stolen (by seven million votes) or you are persona non grata.  Of course, election denial makes a candidate toxic in the general, as we saw a few months ago.  But MAGA is delusional about the midterms also.  The party can never move on unless and until these people choose to dwell in reality.

I think that is an underappreciated point.  Absent evidence sufficient to survive legal scrutiny -- and many of those elections claims actually were heard - election denial inevitably takes us down the black hole of Rome where government is controlled by a self-anointed Emperor.  You can even say that there was massive fraud, but that you're going to respect the result of the election because that's our system, and you have to do a better job of combatting fraud next time.

As ignorant of politics and history as many Americans are, the majority justifiably recoil from what election denial implies.  And they won't vote for anyone who threatened to take us down that path.  I know I won't.

[catfish1957]

I think that is an underappreciated point.  Absent evidence sufficient to survive legal scrutiny -- and many of those elections claims actually were heard - election denial inevitably takes us down the black hole of Rome where government is controlled by a self-anointed Emperor.  You can even say that there was massive fraud, but that you're going to respect the result of the election because that's our system, and you have to do a better job of combatting fraud next time.

As ignorant of politics and history as many Americans are, the majority justifiably recoil from what election denial implies.  And they won't vote for anyone who threatened to take us down that path.  I know I won't.

I think there is a pretty solid majoirty of us who watched that night, understood, and realized something fishy was going on, and at least from my perspective, it was probably stolen.  Still, basing a candidacy and harping on it 4 years later is losing strategy.  If they spent the same energy trying to fix the problem than bitching about it,  they'd have better future success.

[Kamaji]

I think there is a pretty solid majoirty of us who watched that night, understood, and realized something fishy was going on, and at least from my perspective, it was probably stolen.  Still, basing a candidacy and harping on it 4 years later is losing strategy.  If they spent the same energy trying to fix the problem than bitching about it,  they'd have better future success.

Same here.

[libertybele]

I think there is a pretty solid majoirty of us who watched that night, understood, and realized something fishy was going on, and at least from my perspective, it was probably stolen.  Still, basing a candidacy and harping on it 4 years later is losing strategy.  If they spent the same energy trying to fix the problem than bitching about it,  they'd have better future success.

Amen and also trying to smear really true conservatives is going to backfire ... BIGLY!

[libertybele]

Could MAGA be learning from DeSantards?

DeSantards @Right_in_Virginia ???     Childish!

[cato potatoe]

I think there is a pretty solid majoirty of us who watched that night, understood, and realized something fishy was going on, and at least from my perspective, it was probably stolen.

Don’t you remember the articles about the red mirage in the months leading up to election?  Chris Wallace specifically asked Trump how he would handle this during the debate.  Trump foolishly discouraged mail in voting during a pandemic, and so the returns were guaranteed to shift dramatically as the night went on.  I remember reading an analysis from around 11pm where all of the swing states except NC were forecast to flip as mail in ballots were counted.

[Right_in_Virginia]

DeSantards @Right_in_Virginia ???     Childish!

Trumpsters @libertybele ???  What's your opinion on this?   

[Kamaji]

Don’t you remember the articles about the red mirage in the months leading up to election?  Chris Wallace specifically asked Trump how he would handle this during the debate.  Trump foolishly discouraged mail in voting during a pandemic, and so the returns were guaranteed to shift dramatically as the night went on.  I remember reading an analysis from around 11pm where all of the swing states except NC were forecast to flip as mail in ballots were counted.

The unfortunate fact of the matter is, however, that we do have documented instances of left-wing election misconduct, but no ability to actually audit any election to determine whether or not the election was, in fact, altered by this misconduct.

And the shame, and essential hypocrisy, of Mr. Trump is that since 2020 he has done nothing whatsoever to put what he claims is his considerable pull behind efforts to make elections accountable and auditable.  It just comes down to Trump's ego and nothing else.

[catfish1957]

Amen and also trying to smear really true conservatives is going to backfire ... BIGLY!

Last night the orange petulant child put out an gif like campaign ad with RDS having shifty looking eyes.  I for one, am ready for a grown up in the WH, instead of Donald J. Trump who has the maturity of an 8 year old.

[catfish1957]

And the shame, and essential hypocrisy, of Mr. Trump is that since 2020 he has done nothing whatsoever to put what he claims is his considerable pull behind efforts to make elections accountable and auditable.  It just comes down to Trump's ego and nothing else.

You really nailed it there.  It's like he relishes and wallows in his own self pity and whining. Enough is enough.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Amen and also trying to smear really true conservatives is going to backfire ... BIGLY!

InteractivePolls
@IAPolls2022

Morning Consult Poll: Trump Posts Biggest Lead Yet Over DeSantis

Trump — 61% (+43)
DeSantis — 18%
Pence — 6%
Haley — 4%
Ramaswamy — 4%
Cheney — 2%
Abbot — 1%
T. Scott — 1%
Hutchinson — 1%

May 12-14 | 3,571 registered voters
https://morningconsult.com/2024-gop-prima

6:10 AM · May 16, 2023

[catfish1957]

Here's another just out Iowa poll.  Why didn't you also include it?  Just more proof of your level of disingeniality, and your inane abiity to cherry pick DJT propaganda of your choosing. Damn, you are so predictable.

American Greatness IA Poll.  May 12, 2023.

Trump- 44% (+18%)
DeSantis- 28%
Haley - 6%
Pence- 4%
Ramaswamy- 3%
Scott- 1%
Hutcheson- 1%
Sununu- 0%

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The unfortunate fact of the matter is, however, that we do have documented instances of left-wing election misconduct, but no ability to actually audit any election to determine whether or not the election was, in fact, altered by this misconduct.

Exactly.

And the shame, and essential hypocrisy, of Mr. Trump is that since 2020 he has done nothing whatsoever to put what he claims is his considerable pull behind efforts to make elections accountable and auditable.  It just comes down to Trump's ego and nothing else.

And that's another great point. I don't know of any Republican who believes there was no fraud in the 2020 election, and that we shouldn't be focused like a laser beam on trying to reduce the amount of fraud in 2024.

But Trump arguing that he was the actual winner and should be placed in the office, which he openly did for more than a year after that election, was delusional and a complete waste of time. It was never, ever going to happen in a million years.  And it diluted the attention that properly should have been focused on preventing fraud in 2024.

[roamer_1]

I think there is a pretty solid majoirty of us who watched that night, understood, and realized something fishy was going on, and at least from my perspective, it was probably stolen.  Still, basing a candidacy and harping on it 4 years later is losing strategy.  If they spent the same energy trying to fix the problem than bitching about it,  they'd have better future success.

I am in agreement. I am convinced there were enough shenanigans to throw the election into doubt... Especially leaning on the testimony of our own @Cyber Liberty and @Hoodat , who were both on the ground and highly participatory in two of the swing states.

BUT, challenging an election is an extraordinarily high bar - On purpose - as designed by our forefathers. Therefore, the only corruption that matters is the corruption you can prove against that extraordinarily high bar.

And when that case cannot be made, then carried into the next election, it looks like sour grapes. And it is a distraction from issues that should be meaningful and uniting. Understand that: Uniting.

That is the danger of getting stuck in '16. If that is the focus, there will be no win, because the cause is no longer about uniting.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Don’t you remember the articles about the red mirage in the months leading up to election?  Chris Wallace specifically asked Trump how he would handle this during the debate.  Trump foolishly discouraged mail in voting during a pandemic, and so the returns were guaranteed to shift dramatically as the night went on.  I remember reading an analysis from around 11pm where all of the swing states except NC were forecast to flip as mail in ballots were counted.

That is completely true, and it wasn't just something invented after the fact to justify the Democrat come-from-behind vote totals. I remember in the weeks and months leading up to the election that Republican politicians and pundits (and Rush did that as well) openly encouraged GOP voters to cast their ballotd in person on election day, while Democrats were openly encouraging their voters to not vote in person, but rather to vote by mail.  Because most states only counted mail-in votes after election day votes were counted, this virtually guaranteed that results would shift towards Democrats as time wore on.

I remember watching the returns and thinking "we're not leading by enough" on election night, and sure enough, that's what happened. I don't know whether those who take those shifting votes totals as proof of fraud  remember that dynamic, but it was very, very real.

I suppose maybe some of them were in a bit of an information bubble, and therefore were not aware of how the Democrat instructions to their voters were so different from what Republicans were telling theirs.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I for one, am ready for a grown up in the WH, instead of Donald J. Trump who has the maturity of an 8 year old.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Only someone with no idea of how male group dynamics actually work would think that DeSantis would be on the receiving end of that.

It's amusing that a coddled, spoiled little rich kid like Trump who attended only private schools, dodged the draft, and likely has never even been in a fight in his entire life is portrayed by some as some kind of alpha tough guy.  The reality is that he's a pasty, fat old man whose only real talent is showmanship.  Something he had time and the opportunity to develop given the head start he got with daddy's millions.

DeSantis was an ordinary middle class kid who was not only a very good athlete, but a very intelligent and completely self-made guy.  Made it into exclusive schools not because of who his daddy was, but because of sheer intelligence and very hard work.  Then, after getting a law degree, he choose to head into the military rather than making millions with some high-end firm.  He was in Fallujah while Trump was making "The Apprentice".  The reality is that if they were in the same school and the same age, and one of them would have been giving "swirlies" to the other, it would have been The Donald's hair that would have been soaking wet, with clingy little bits of toilet paper.

There's a reason Trump's lawyer threatened Trump's alma maters with lawsuits if they released his academic records, and its not because he did well.

[Kamaji]

Exactly.

And that's another great point. I don't know of any Republican who believes there was no fraud in the 2020 election, and that we shouldn't be focused like a laser beam on trying to reduce the amount of fraud in 2024.

But Trump arguing that he was the actual winner and should be placed in the office, which he openly did for more than a year after that election, was delusional and a complete waste of time. It was never, ever going to happen in a million years.  And it diluted the attention that properly should have been focused on preventing fraud in 2024.

There is at least one republican who has been taking positive steps towards reforming his state's election process:  DeSantis.

[Kamaji]

It's amusing that a coddled, spoiled little rich kid like Trump who attended only private schools, dodged the draft, and likely has never even been in a fight in his life is portrayed as some kind of alpha tough guy.  Reality is that he's a pasty, fat old man whose only real talent is showmanship.  Something he had time and the opportunity to develop given the head start he got with daddy's millions.

DeSantis was an ordinary middle class kid who was not only a very good athlete, but a very intelligent and completely self-made guy.  Made it into exclusive schools not because of who his daddy was, but because of sheer intelligence and very hard work.  Then, after getting a law degree, he choose to head into the military rather than making millions with some high-end firm.  The reality is that if they were in the same school, and one of them would have been giving "swirlies" to the other, it would have been The Donald's hair that would have been soaking wet.

There's a reason Trump's lawyer threatened Trump's alma maters with lawsuits if they released his academic records, and its not because he did well.