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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #100 on: May 20, 2023, 05:18:31 pm »

Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2023, 04:00:46 pm
Right. If it has jet engines, fixed wings, and doesn't land on a ship...

@Smokin Joe

Can you even BEGIN to imagine all the hissy-fits and slaps that went on between the US Navy and the USAF over "who "owns" the cargo plane contracts?"

I think the only reason that one didn't "blow up" was because  WW-2 was raging,and the US needed all the cargo planes they could get,and there was and is no  way in HELL to land a cargo plane on a carrier and have it take off and do anything more than make a big splash when it leaves the deck.

Besides,they were both so busy designing and putting new cargo planes and fighter plans online to meet the 1941-1945 requirements that they probably just didn't have the time to have hissy-fits.

Add to that the FACT that the Navy fighters had to have different designs as well as different structural support to be able to fold the fights wings for storage below,as well as to handle the "sudden stops" when the fighters returned and had to land and be caught be a steel cable to keep them from running off the other end of the deck and crashing into the sea.

The fact that BOTH managed to design and put the fighters into production in such a short time and have them actually working and holding up is a tribute to BOTH forces.

Hell,they even managed to come up with new designs while the war was going on that no one had even thought of before. Planes like the p-15 and even the first jet fighters,for example. I stand in awe of their engineering ability.

I can't stop without adding the FACT that a lot of those late-ww2 fighters were STILL being used for close ground support operations in VN. I do not mind admitting that I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for the close air support these "obsolete WW-2 fighter/bombers provided us in VN,Cambodia,Laos,and NVN.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 05:21:35 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #101 on: May 20, 2023, 05:29:09 pm »
Quote from: sneakypete on May 20, 2023, 05:18:31 pm

@Smokin Joe

Can you even BEGIN to imagine all the hissy-fits and slaps that went on between the US Navy and the USAF over "who "owns" the cargo plane contracts?"

I think the only reason that one didn't "blow up" was because  WW-2 was raging,and the US needed all the cargo planes they could get,and there was and is no  way in HELL to land a cargo plane on a carrier and have it take off and do anything more than make a big splash when it leaves the deck.

Besides,they were both so busy designing and putting new cargo planes and fighter plans online to meet the 1941-1945 requirements that they probably just didn't have the time to have hissy-fits.

Add to that the FACT that the Navy fighters had to have different designs as well as different structural support to be able to fold the fights wings for storage below,as well as to handle the "sudden stops" when the fighters returned and had to land and be caught be a steel cable to keep them from running off the other end of the deck and crashing into the sea.

The fact that BOTH managed to design and put the fighters into production in such a short time and have them actually working and holding up is a tribute to BOTH forces.

Hell,they even managed to come up with new designs while the war was going on that no one had even thought of before. Planes like the p-15 and even the first jet fighters,for example. I stand in awe of their engineering ability.
The P-51, P-47, and P-38, and even the B-25 (which did fly off a carrier to bomb Tokyo), were all awesome planes. The Mustang for its range, speed, maneuverability, the 'Jug' for its ability to fly fighter support or equally, do ground attack and withstand punishment, the Lightning for sheer capability in Pacific and European theatres (they got Yamoto), and the B-25 which was adapted from everything from a medium bomber to the H variant with a total of eight .50 cals in the nose used to attack coastal shipping and anything else handy.

While people think of Hurricanes, Spitfires, B-17s and B-24s, there were al lot of great planes, and the Navy ones not so well known included the Helldiver, Avenger, Wildcat, Hellcat, and the F-4U Corsair, designed specifically to fly off a pitching deck, take it to the enemy, and land on that ship again. When you consider the variety, from the Catalina flying boats to the p-39 (built with a midships engine), it is a testament to an adaptable America we may not see again for a while, one where people built their own bulldozers in their garages.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #102 on: May 20, 2023, 07:43:57 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2023, 05:29:09 pm
The P-51, P-47, and P-38, and even the B-25 (which did fly off a carrier to bomb Tokyo), were all awesome planes. The Mustang for its range, speed, maneuverability, the 'Jug' for its ability to fly fighter support or equally, do ground attack and withstand punishment, the Lightning for sheer capability in Pacific and European theatres (they got Yamoto), and the B-25 which was adapted from everything from a medium bomber to the H variant with a total of eight .50 cals in the nose used to attack coastal shipping and anything else handy.

While people think of Hurricanes, Spitfires, B-17s and B-24s, there were al lot of great planes, and the Navy ones not so well known included the Helldiver, Avenger, Wildcat, Hellcat, and the F-4U Corsair, designed specifically to fly off a pitching deck, take it to the enemy, and land on that ship again. When you consider the variety, from the Catalina flying boats to the p-39 (built with a midships engine), it is a testament to an adaptable America we may not see again for a while, one where people built their own bulldozers in their garages.


@Smokin Joe

"F-4U Corsair" awesome fighter/bomber,and it had the ability to take an enormous amount of damage and still fly.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #103 on: May 20, 2023, 08:03:42 pm »
Quote from: sneakypete on May 20, 2023, 07:43:57 pm

@Smokin Joe

"F-4U Corsair" awesome fighter/bomber,and it had the ability to take an enormous amount of damage and still fly.
It was and it did, but they were not nearly as pilot friendly as the P-51 or the P-47 (harder to fly). The P-51 was rated very sweetly by the pilots as being easy to fly, the P-47 got high marks for durability, armor protection for the pilot, raw power (a 2,000 horsepower radial), and eight .50 caliber machine guns. The Corsair remained in service through Korea, used as a ground attack aircraft (rockets, bombs, napalm, and strafing). All of the planes we have mentioned were awesome in their own way, and we haven't even moved on to the A-1 Skyraider (Spad)...
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #104 on: May 20, 2023, 11:21:44 pm »
Quote from: mountaineer on May 20, 2023, 03:27:24 pm
Prigozhin’s video announcement celebrating the Russian victory in Bakhmut. Fully translated into English

Ukrainian soldiers still fighting inside Bakhmut.  This was today:

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13nc84f/meanwhile_ukrainian_pyotr_verzilov_published/

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #105 on: May 20, 2023, 11:22:09 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2023, 08:03:42 pm
It was and it did, but they were not nearly as pilot friendly as the P-51 or the P-47 (harder to fly). The P-51 was rated very sweetly by the pilots as being easy to fly, the P-47 got high marks for durability, armor protection for the pilot, raw power (a 2,000 horsepower radial), and eight .50 caliber machine guns. The Corsair remained in service through Korea, used as a ground attack aircraft (rockets, bombs, napalm, and strafing). All of the planes we have mentioned were awesome in their own way, and we haven't even moved on to the A-1 Skyraider (Spad)...

@Smokin Joe

Maybe MY personal favorite because they flat saved my ass on several occasions,although to be technically correct,I do believe they were the A1-E versions.

It also needs to be said that ALL the "Spad Pilots" flying in VN had balls of brass,and the airplanes that fit them. I have had them come in on napalm runs to keep the NVA out of our perimiter so low we could see the pilot smile as he did a barrel roll over us after dumping his load. Seems like they usually had the canopies slid back so their "squadron scarves" could be seen by everybody to let us know who it was that was saving our asses.

I flat admire the HELL out of those guys. As I have noted  in similar posts,they ALL knew they had a standing invitation to come and party with us in our NCO club ANYTIME they could make it,and their drinks and food wouldn't cost them anything. What does THAT tell you,knowing that SF guys are NOT easy to impress?

BTW,helo crews and pilots had the same invitations,and for the same reasons. Without them guys going WAAAAY over the courage line/line of duty line to save our asses,a lot fewer of us would have survived even our first tour.

Besides,those old  radial engines made THE coolest sounds you have ever heard when they are coming in on the attack,and then climbing back up  out  of gunfire range. It was just like being in a WW-2 John Wayne movie.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #106 on: May 20, 2023, 11:22:21 pm »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #107 on: May 20, 2023, 11:24:25 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on May 20, 2023, 11:22:21 pm
Russians continue to shell a city they claim to 100% occupy.

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13nac2v/a_ukrainian_drone_captures_a_birds_eye_view_of/

@Hoodat

AND??????

These are Russians. That sort of thing is just traditional for them.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #108 on: May 20, 2023, 11:44:02 pm »
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2023, 08:35:29 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2023, 10:33:12 am »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #111 on: May 21, 2023, 11:19:53 am »
The Ukrainians defended Bakhmut because the loss ratio was favorable for them.  If they think it remains favorable, they'll keep defending it.  Otherwise, they won't.

It's strategic value at this point is almost non-existent given that the Russian lost all that ground to the north and south.  Because of those losses, they can't advance any further west out of Bakhmut even if they have taken it because they'd get cutoff.  So it marks the limit of their ability to advance regardless of whether the Ukrainians or Russians hold it.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #112 on: May 21, 2023, 11:42:51 am »
Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on May 21, 2023, 11:19:53 am
The Ukrainians defended Bakhmut because the loss ratio was favorable for them.  If they think it remains favorable, they'll keep defending it.  Otherwise, they won't.

It's strategic value at this point is almost non-existent given that the Russian lost all that ground to the north and south.  Because of those losses, they can't advance any further west out of Bakhmut even if they have taken it because they'd get cutoff.  So it marks the limit of their ability to advance regardless of whether the Ukrainians or Russians hold it.

This is true.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #113 on: May 21, 2023, 11:52:52 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on May 21, 2023, 11:42:51 am
This is true.

@Hoodat

Also,it seems like the city has now been shelled to the point where there are no longer any livable buildings standing.
In effect,there is no longer a livable city there.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #114 on: May 21, 2023, 01:08:01 pm »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2023, 04:59:04 pm »
Quote from: sneakypete on May 21, 2023, 11:52:52 am
@Hoodat

Also,it seems like the city has now been shelled to the point where there are no longer any livable buildings standing.
In effect,there is no longer a livable city there.
True, but like Stalingrad, those ruins can be an absolute sonofab*tch to get defenders out of, shelling or no.
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C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #116 on: May 21, 2023, 07:42:59 pm »
Russian ammunition stored under bridge


https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1660240091980222465
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #117 on: May 21, 2023, 10:55:30 pm »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2023, 11:13:18 pm »
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2023, 12:43:41 am »
Putin’s orcs have been claiming victory in Bakhmut since January or February.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #120 on: May 22, 2023, 06:27:33 am »
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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #121 on: May 22, 2023, 07:08:25 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #122 on: May 22, 2023, 08:16:17 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #123 on: May 22, 2023, 08:21:01 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2023, 08:23:02 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #125 on: May 22, 2023, 08:32:43 am »
Well this has to be the strangest turn of events that I see, to follow this here is the link: https://twitter.com/hashtag/Belgorod?src=hashtag_click
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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #126 on: May 22, 2023, 09:08:06 am »
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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #127 on: May 22, 2023, 10:10:56 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #128 on: May 22, 2023, 10:15:04 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #129 on: May 22, 2023, 10:20:49 am »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #130 on: May 22, 2023, 10:22:47 am »
With all the talk of a 'brokered peace' in the region, Ukraine needs more of a bargaining chip than "Russians go home!". Captured Russian territory would level the bargaining table, with both sides withdrawing to their respective pre-conflict borders, instead of one sided demands.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #131 on: May 22, 2023, 10:54:14 am »
Ballsy raid toward Belgorod if true...

https://news.yahoo.com/freedom-russia-legion-declares-liberation-132000222.html

Quote

“The advanced units have entered Grayvoron. We are moving forward. Russia will be free,” the Legion’s post read.

Vyacheslav Gladkov, the governor of Belgorod Oblast, confirmed there had been an armed incursion into the territory of the oblast’s Grayvoron District, referring to the volunteers as a “sabotage and reconnaissance group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.”

“The Russian Armed Forces, together with the Border Service, National Guard, and FSB, are taking the necessary measures to eliminate the enemy,” Gladkov wrote on Telegram.

The Freedom of Russia Legion is a unit within the Armed Forces of Ukraine, established in March 2022 to combat the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It comprises defectors from the Russian Armed Forces and other Russian volunteers who had not previously served in military units.

Previously, fighters from the Russian Volunteer Corps, who are engaged in combat against the Russian army in Ukraine, reported that they had once again infiltrated Russian territory. They released videos of themselves alongside signs displaying the names of settlements in Russian oblasts bordering Ukraine.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #132 on: May 22, 2023, 11:02:54 am »
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #133 on: May 22, 2023, 11:09:41 am »
The Twitter feed for "Belgorod" is fun to read today...

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Belgorod?src=hashtag_click

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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #134 on: May 22, 2023, 01:15:54 pm »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2023, 09:37:28 pm »
Moscow Blames ‘Ukrainian Saboteurs’ for Attack in Western Belgorod Region

Adam Morrow  |  May 22, 2023


A fuel depot on fire in the city of Belgorod, Russia, on April 1, 2022. (Pavel Kolyadin/BelPressa/Reuters)

Ukrainian saboteurs have attacked Russia’s Belgorod region, the region’s governor claimed on May 22, leaving three people injured and causing significant material damage.

The government in Kyiv, for its part, denies complicity in the attack, attributing it instead to “violent resistance movements” that are opposed to Russian President Vladimir Putin.  .  .

.  .  .  Vyacheslav Gladkov, Belgorod’s regional governor, said the attack began with an artillery barrage on the village of Glotovo in Belgorod’s Grayvoron district.  .  .

https://www.theepochtimes.com/moscow-blames-ukrainian-saboteurs-for-attack-in-western-belgorod-region_5283345.html
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #136 on: May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 am »
Russia's meatgrinder campaign to nowhere: How Wagner has sacrificed thousands of men to take Bakhmut… but are now trapped and unable to press on as Ukraine surrounds the city

Moscow claimed its forces had taken full control of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut over the weekend
But Kyiv says Putin's forces in the city are surrounded on three sides - to the north, south and west

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
22 May 2023

Russian forces have walked into a trap by taking control of Bakhmut after a grinding nine-month battle for the Ukrainian city, Kyiv has said.

Moscow claimed to have taken full control of the eastern city over the weekend, in what would be a largely symbolic victory that has come at the cost of tens of thousands of Russian and Wagner mercenary troops. Kyiv disputed the Russian claim, but acknowledged its forces now control only a small district.

But while the situation in Bakhmut itself appears bleak for Ukraine, Kyiv says its fighters' presence has played a key role in their strategy of exhausting the Russian military ahead of a planned counteroffensive, while manoeuvring around the flanks of the city.

Ukraine now says its current positions in the areas surrounding Bakhmut - where its forces have fought to surround the city from the north and south in recent weeks and sent Russian troops running - will allow them to strike back.

According to Ukraine's Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi: 'Wagner's men went into Bakhmut like rats into a mousetrap.'

*  *  *

While Moscow may control the centre of Bakhmut, analysts say the Kremlin's victory is not strategically advantageous, as it is unlikely to provide a springboard for either Wagner or Russia's armed forces to advance further west.

What's more, as Wagner pushed relentlessly through the city, Ukraine's forces launched rapid counterattacks in the fields to the north and south of Bakhmut, meaning Kyiv's troops surround the city from three sides.

Kyiv now holds the high ground around the city, putting any Russian unit in the sights of Ukrainian artillery from multiple directions.

Even more important for Ukraine has been the high numbers of Russian casualties and sapping of the morale of enemy troops for the the small patch of the 932-mile front line as Ukraine gears up for a major counteroffensive in the 15-month-old war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12110023/How-Wagner-sacrificed-thousands-men-Bakhmut-trapped.html
« Last Edit: May 23, 2023, 09:05:52 am by Kamaji »
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #137 on: May 23, 2023, 09:08:07 am »
Russian minister, 46, 'who privately condemned Putin's "fascist" invasion of Ukraine' becomes latest figure to mysteriously die: Official married to Eurovision singer fell ill during flight from Cuba to Moscow

By JAMES REYNOLDS
22 May 2023

Russia's deputy science minister, allegedly a private critic of the 'fascist' invasion of Ukraine, has died suddenly, aged just 46, after falling seriously ill on a flight to Moscow on Saturday. Pyotr Kucherenko (pictured left and bottom right) was returning from a business trip to Cuba when the flight was forced to make an emergency landing in southern Russia, the Science and Higher Education Ministry confirmed yesterday. Arriving doctors performed CPR but were unable to save the official. His family said the death was linked to an underlying heart condition, but the body is expected to undergo an autopsy on May 24.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-12111321/Russian-minister-46-latest-senior-figure-mysteriously-die.html
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #138 on: May 23, 2023, 09:16:10 am »
Quote
Pyotr Kucherenko (pictured left and bottom right) was returning from a business trip to Cuba

WTF????

A commie official making a business trip to another commie country?

No wonder he "too sick and died".
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #139 on: May 23, 2023, 09:21:21 am »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #140 on: May 23, 2023, 01:33:34 pm »
The whole Belgorod attack looks like an effort to draw Russian troops from other fronts prior to the Ukrainian counteroffensive.  If it was truly just a bunch of Russians taking things into their own hands, for their own reasons, the best time to have attacked would have been after the Ukrainians did, because that counteroffensive would draw off Russian forces/reserves from being able to help in Belgorod.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #141 on: May 23, 2023, 02:39:04 pm »
Russia's meatgrinder campaign to nowhere: How Wagner has sacrificed thousands of men to take Bakhmut… but are now trapped and unable to press on as Ukraine surrounds the city

Moscow claimed its forces had taken full control of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut over the weekend
But Kyiv says Putin's forces in the city are surrounded on three sides - to the north, south and west

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
22 May 2023

Russian forces have walked into a trap by taking control of Bakhmut after a grinding nine-month battle for the Ukrainian city, Kyiv has said.

Moscow claimed to have taken full control of the eastern city over the weekend, in what would be a largely symbolic victory that has come at the cost of tens of thousands of Russian and Wagner mercenary troops. Kyiv disputed the Russian claim, but acknowledged its forces now control only a small district.

But while the situation in Bakhmut itself appears bleak for Ukraine, Kyiv says its fighters' presence has played a key role in their strategy of exhausting the Russian military ahead of a planned counteroffensive, while manoeuvring around the flanks of the city.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12110023/How-Wagner-sacrificed-thousands-men-Bakhmut-trapped.html
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #142 on: May 23, 2023, 02:43:35 pm »
Highway E105/M2, on the outskirts of Belograd, is almost a straight shot into Moscow.

Could be an attempt to pre-emptively cut off potential supply lines or lines of re-inforcement from the north in preparation for an attack further south along the battle lines.

Or, it could be a flanking maneuver - attack the enemy where they are not.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #143 on: May 23, 2023, 04:05:29 pm »
Quote from: Kamaji on May 23, 2023, 02:39:04 pm
Russia's meatgrinder campaign to nowhere: How Wagner has sacrificed thousands of men to take Bakhmut… but are now trapped and unable to press on as Ukraine surrounds the city

Moscow claimed its forces had taken full control of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut over the weekend
But Kyiv says Putin's forces in the city are surrounded on three sides - to the north, south and west

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
22 May 2023

Russian forces have walked into a trap by taking control of Bakhmut after a grinding nine-month battle for the Ukrainian city, Kyiv has said.

Moscow claimed to have taken full control of the eastern city over the weekend, in what would be a largely symbolic victory that has come at the cost of tens of thousands of Russian and Wagner mercenary troops. Kyiv disputed the Russian claim, but acknowledged its forces now control only a small district.

But while the situation in Bakhmut itself appears bleak for Ukraine, Kyiv says its fighters' presence has played a key role in their strategy of exhausting the Russian military ahead of a planned counteroffensive, while manoeuvring around the flanks of the city.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12110023/How-Wagner-sacrificed-thousands-men-Bakhmut-trapped.html

The Russian explanation for trying to take Bakhmut was that it was the alleged linchpin of the Ukrainian defenses in that area, and if Bakhmut fell, the Ukrainians would have to retreat all along that front.  But as it turned out, even if Bakhmut "fell", the Ukrainians are showing no signs of retreating, and in fact quite the opposite.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #144 on: May 23, 2023, 06:32:43 pm »
Anti-Kremlin fighters cause 'chaos' in Russian border region


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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #145 on: May 23, 2023, 07:09:50 pm »
Balderdash.

 As long as the rebels in Russia are acting as rebels in Russia, all it can do to hurt Ukraine is if the western press spin it as a Ukrainian operation. So long as there is no western fingerprint on it, it can't be used as propaganda against Ukraine.

The Russian army still has to deal with them, there's a chance that the Russians will have to respond, militarily, and that will remove Russians from the main fray.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2023, 07:24:36 pm »
Not sure if this true or not:



Russians looking for options to leave occupied Crimea, says Ukrainian military
https://news.yahoo.com/russians-looking-options-leave-occupied-095600247.html
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2023, 07:44:38 pm »
Something is happening in Russia and it's not good for Putin:
https://twitter.com/search?q=Kursk&src=trend_click&vertical=trends



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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #148 on: May 23, 2023, 08:00:53 pm »
Quote from: kevindavis007 on May 23, 2023, 07:44:38 pm
Something is happening in Russia and it's not good for Putin:
https://twitter.com/search?q=Kursk&src=trend_click&vertical=trends





What’s that?  I don’t have a twitter account so can’t see the post.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #149 on: May 23, 2023, 09:02:35 pm »
Quote from: Kamaji on May 23, 2023, 08:00:53 pm
What’s that?  I don’t have a twitter account so can’t see the post.

@Kamaji

More Russian anti-Putin troops popping up around Kursk.

Still no evidence they're in large enough numbers to be a problem, though.
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