Author Topic: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders  (Read 24859 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #150 on: April 04, 2023, 08:49:42 pm »
Second count:

Quote
SECOND COUNT:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the
defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE,
in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017,

Second count is a parroting of the first count.  Again, statute of limitations expired over a year ago.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 08:53:23 pm by Hoodat »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #151 on: April 04, 2023, 08:53:35 pm »
Third count:

Quote
THIRD COUNT:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the
defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE,
in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017

Another repeat of the first count.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline libertybele

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #152 on: April 04, 2023, 08:56:29 pm »
I started watching Trump's speech tonight.....UGHHHH.  I just couldn't take it.  He was wronged for sure, but he needs to retire.

Just the opposite here.  He was forthright, honest and he and his entire family have been wronged.

I fear for President Trump  but most of all I fear for our country.

With China and Russia now together, we will no longer be the Super Power nor will our currency be dominant.

America .... what will the world do without her?

Total chaos anyone?  Russia and China will take us over.  Anyone truly feel that's impossible? 

Let's Go Brandon!!!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #153 on: April 04, 2023, 08:56:41 pm »
Count four, count five, count six,  .  .  .  all the way up to count 34 reference the same NY statute with a five year limitation on prosecution.  No federal charges there.  Only the same NY Statute.  No judge in their right mind would have allowed this arraignment.  I hope Trump sues them for cost of fuel.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #154 on: April 04, 2023, 08:57:00 pm »
DC_Draino
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Never forget - Joe Biden was in the Oval Office w/ Obama when they coordinated the spying operation on President Trump w/the FBI, DOJ, and CIA in 2016

So is anyone surprised the guy who stole 2020 is now trying to imprison Trump before the 2024 election?
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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #155 on: April 04, 2023, 08:57:17 pm »
So how is a NY County prosecutor able to invoke federal law when the former Governor of Arizona was blocked by a federal judge from invoking federal immigration law?

Simple. It's OK when Democrats do it.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #158 on: April 04, 2023, 09:03:09 pm »
Benny Johnson
@bennyjohnson
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20s
Donald Trump says Alvin Bragg is the true criminal in this case because “he illegally leaked massive amount of grand jury information.”
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #159 on: April 04, 2023, 09:05:38 pm »
New York Consolidated Laws, Criminal Procedure Law - CPL § 30.10
Timeliness of prosecutions;  periods of limitation


1. A criminal action must be commenced within the period of limitation prescribed in the ensuing subdivisions of this section.

2. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision three:

(a) A prosecution for a class A felony, or rape in the first degree as defined in section 130.35 of the penal law, or a crime defined or formerly defined in section 130.50 of the penal law, or aggravated sexual abuse in the first degree as defined in section 130.70 of the penal law, or course of sexual conduct against a child in the first degree as defined in section 130.75 of the penal law may be commenced at any time;

(b) A prosecution for any other felony must be commenced within five years after the commission thereof;
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #161 on: April 04, 2023, 09:09:30 pm »
After listening to Trump's speech I fully expect the judge to issue a gag order...
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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #162 on: April 04, 2023, 09:15:53 pm »
After listening to Trump's speech I fully expect the judge to issue a gag order...

What are they gonna do?  Arrest Him.  lol
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #163 on: April 04, 2023, 09:34:56 pm »
What are they gonna do?  Arrest Him.  lol

They wish.... :jail:
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #164 on: April 04, 2023, 10:16:38 pm »
New York Consolidated Laws, Criminal Procedure Law - CPL § 30.10
Timeliness of prosecutions;  periods of limitation


1. A criminal action must be commenced within the period of limitation prescribed in the ensuing subdivisions of this section.

2. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision three:

(a) A prosecution for a class A felony, or rape in the first degree as defined in section 130.35 of the penal law, or a crime defined or formerly defined in section 130.50 of the penal law, or aggravated sexual abuse in the first degree as defined in section 130.70 of the penal law, or course of sexual conduct against a child in the first degree as defined in section 130.75 of the penal law may be commenced at any time;

(b) A prosecution for any other felony must be commenced within five years after the commission thereof;

Unfortunately, there is a tolling provision that is likely to apply.  NY Crim. Proc. Law § 30.10(4)(a), to wit:

Quote
In calculating the time limitation applicable to commencement of a criminal action, the following periods shall not be included:

(a) Any period following the commission of the offense during which (i) the defendant was continuously outside this state or (ii) the whereabouts of the defendant were continuously unknown and continuously unascertainable by the exercise of reasonable diligence. However, in no event shall the period of limitation be extended by more than five years beyond the period otherwise applicable under subdivision two.

Subject to how the NY courts may have interpreted the phrase "continuously outside this state", the prosecutor is most likely counting on, for example, Trump's time spent in D.C. during his presidency as having tolled the statute of limitations.

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #165 on: April 04, 2023, 10:35:14 pm »
Unfortunately, there is a tolling provision that is likely to apply.  NY Crim. Proc. Law § 30.10(4)(a), to wit:

Subject to how the NY courts may have interpreted the phrase "continuously outside this state", the prosecutor is most likely counting on, for example, Trump's time spent in D.C. during his presidency as having tolled the statute of limitations.

Trump was in and out of the Jurisdiction many times between 2017 and 2020, while he was President.
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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #166 on: April 04, 2023, 10:40:43 pm »
@Hoodat

My understanding is they used some BS Covid rule that allowed an additional year. I am not going to hunt where I read that... sorry.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #167 on: April 04, 2023, 10:57:49 pm »
Trump was in and out of the Jurisdiction many times between 2017 and 2020, while he was President.

In which case, there was probably a substantial amount of time tolled from the statute of limitations.  As the Ulster County Court has previously held, the "continuously absent" language is merely meant to ensure that certain vacations and other brief excursions from NY State would not toll the statute, but otherwise, if the defendant has resided outside of NY, even for a period of as little as three months (such as when incarcerated in another state), then the statute of limitations will be tolled.  People v. Ferrari, 155 Misc. 2d 749 (N.Y. Cnty. Ct. 1992).

The NY Court of Appeals has even gone so far as to hold that even a day of absence from the state will toll the statute.  The Court of Appeals addressed that issue in People v. Knobel , 94 N.Y.2d 226, 701 N.Y.S.2d 695, 723 N.E.2d 550 (1999). The Court agreed with the People that "all periods of a day or more that a non-resident defendant is out-of-State should be totaled and toll the Statute of Limitations." People v. Knobel , 94 N.Y.2d at 230, 701 N.Y.S.2d 695, 723 N.E.2d 550.

Thus, under Court of Appeals precedent, every day that Trump was physically outside of NY probably tolled the statute of limitations, which means that the five-year period almost certainly hasn't expired yet.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #168 on: April 04, 2023, 10:59:34 pm »
@Hoodat

My understanding is they used some BS Covid rule that allowed an additional year. I am not going to hunt where I read that... sorry.

I don't think they need to rely on some covid-derived rule, the NY Crim. Proc. Law contains a tolling provision that, as interpreted by the Court of Appeals, means that each day Trump spent outside of NYS is not taken into account in determining whether the five-year period has expired.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #169 on: April 04, 2023, 11:28:21 pm »
Unfortunately, there is a tolling provision that is likely to apply.  NY Crim. Proc. Law § 30.10(4)(a), to wit:

Subject to how the NY courts may have interpreted the phrase "continuously outside this state", the prosecutor is most likely counting on, for example, Trump's time spent in D.C. during his presidency as having tolled the statute of limitations.

@Kamaji

I don't believe that argument is going to fly.  Section 4 is for subjects evading prosecution by making themselves unavailable to prosecutors which is something Trump has never done.  There is no action that Trump has taken that can be construed as avoidance of trial commencement.  Trump not only maintained New York residency for almost three years after the alleged offense took place, but he also maintained property and businesses there, revisiting the State on numerous occasions.

I believe that the prosecutor is instead targeting § 30.10 (3)(b)

Quote
(b) A prosecution for any offense involving misconduct in public
office by a public servant including, without limitation, an offense
defined in article four hundred ninety-six of the penal law, may be
commenced against a public servant, or any other person acting in
concert with such public servant at any time during such public
servant's service in such office or within five years after the
termination of such service; provided however, that in no event shall
the period of limitation be extended by more than five years beyond the
period otherwise applicable under subdivision two of this section.

The prosecutor was careful to select for an offense date one that occurred (barely) within Trump's term of office.
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Offline DB

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #170 on: April 04, 2023, 11:51:07 pm »
Just the opposite here.  He was forthright, honest and he and his entire family have been wronged.

I fear for President Trump  but most of all I fear for our country.

With China and Russia now together, we will no longer be the Super Power nor will our currency be dominant.

America .... what will the world do without her?

Total chaos anyone?  Russia and China will take us over.  Anyone truly feel that's impossible? 

Let's Go Brandon!!!

Russia isn't taking over anything. They produce little other than natural resources. Their GDP is around 3% of the west's. They are dying.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #171 on: April 05, 2023, 04:36:14 am »
@Kamaji

I don't believe that argument is going to fly.  Section 4 is for subjects evading prosecution by making themselves unavailable to prosecutors which is something Trump has never done.  There is no action that Trump has taken that can be construed as avoidance of trial commencement.  Trump not only maintained New York residency for almost three years after the alleged offense took place, but he also maintained property and businesses there, revisiting the State on numerous occasions.

I believe that the prosecutor is instead targeting § 30.10 (3)(b)

The prosecutor was careful to select for an offense date one that occurred (barely) within Trump's term of office.

No, actually, it isn’t.  Read the case law, which is very clear that the motive for the absence is irrelevant.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #172 on: April 05, 2023, 11:51:15 am »
Mark Levin:  "We the American people need to stand behind this guy. There's not another Republican that I can think of who can fight back and fight back this way...I like others, I really do...But at this time, at this moment...He's the guy." - @marklevinshow. (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/alexbruesewitz/status/1643457005632233474


Full Levin segment:  (Video)


https://rumble.com/embed/v2doknq/?pub=4






« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 11:57:59 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #173 on: April 05, 2023, 11:57:27 am »
Mark Levin:  :We the American people need to stand behind this guy. There's not another Republican that I can think of who can fight back and fight back this way...I like others, I really do...But at this time, at this moment...He's the guy." - @marklevinshow. (Video)



Hell with that.  I used to have a lot more respect for Levin, until he felt he was the annointed one to tell us how to vote and support this non-conservative.

RIV....   Show me some proof that Trump will start embracing some fiscal responsibility and you can change my mind.   Spouting out  ridiculous Freedom Cities and Jetson Cars just shows he is going in the opposite direction.  AND out liberal-ing the liberal Biden.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #174 on: April 05, 2023, 12:11:25 pm »

RIV....   Show me some proof that Trump will start embracing some fiscal responsibility and you can change my mind. 

I luv ya @catfish1957 ... and ask in friendship that you leave me the hell out of this specious, nonsensical argument.  I have made both my
opinions and the reasons for them as clear as I can. 

It's enough.

Thanks.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #175 on: April 05, 2023, 12:17:14 pm »
I luv ya @catfish1957 ... and ask in friendship that you leave me the hell out of this specious, nonsensical argument.  I have made both my
opinions and the reasons for them as clear as I can. 

It's enough.

Thanks.

Fair enough.  :beer:  Sometimes we just have agree to disagree.  And in friendship, I will always consider you my partner in documenting  the '20 steal that night.
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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #176 on: April 05, 2023, 04:05:49 pm »
I suppose Levin has the same right as any of the rest of us to convince people to support his preferred candidate.

But I do think the logic of "he's been indicted by a leftist Democrat so we must all support him for the nomination" is just a dumb argument.  It's basically letting the Democrats choose our nominee.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #177 on: April 05, 2023, 05:02:06 pm »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #178 on: April 05, 2023, 05:03:37 pm »
Fair enough.  :beer:  Sometimes we just have agree to disagree.  And in friendship, I will always consider you my partner in documenting  the '20 steal that night.

 888high58888

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #179 on: April 05, 2023, 05:09:00 pm »

But I do think the logic of "he's been indicted by a leftist Democrat so we must all support him for the nomination" is just a dumb argument.

Except that's not his argument. 

(Short) Video:


https://mobile.twitter.com/alexbruesewitz/status/1643457005632233474



« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 05:19:18 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #180 on: April 05, 2023, 06:26:45 pm »
I suppose Levin has the same right as any of the rest of us to convince people to support his preferred candidate.

But I do think the logic of "he's been indicted by a leftist Democrat so we must all support him for the nomination" is just a dumb argument.  It's basically letting the Democrats choose our nominee.

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #181 on: April 05, 2023, 09:01:32 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Like it or not,it is also the truth.

It's an opinion, not a fact, so it isn't either true or false.  Either way, it doesn't persuade me personally, and I won't vote for Trump under any circumstances.

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #182 on: April 05, 2023, 09:07:14 pm »
Except that's not his argument. 

(Short) Video:


https://mobile.twitter.com/alexbruesewitz/status/1643457005632233474
. Sure it is.

Levin also is making the same mistake as do so many others - they confuse intent and rhetoric with effectiveness.  They like the message Trump sends, so they think he should be supported.  The problem is that he doesn't understand how the government actually works, is too easily fooled/baited by the left, and is terrible at selecting key subordinates.  All the right sentiments in the world are worthless if you lack the ability to implement them properly.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 11:01:05 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #183 on: April 05, 2023, 09:27:35 pm »
. Sure it is.

Levin makes the same mistake as do so many others - they confuse intent and rhetoric with effectiveness.  They like the message Trump sends, so they think he should be supported.  The problem is that he doesn't understand how the government actually works...

Bullshit.

American voters remember the four years of our strength on the world stage, peace, prosperity, energy independence, borders under control and a spine of steel ----- courtesy of Donald J. Trump.

The problem for you is:  We want him back.




« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 09:32:57 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #184 on: April 05, 2023, 09:43:13 pm »
Bullshit.

American voters remember the four years of our strength on the world stage, peace, prosperity, energy independence, borders under control and a spine of steel ----- courtesy of Donald J. Trump.

Trump did some good things, no question.  But his flaws also meant that he failed badly at other things that were critical, and at which he should have been able to succeed if he wasn't such a...Trump.

Quote
The problem for you is:  We want him back.

Fair enough.   I don't want him to be the GOP nominee, so obviously I'd prefer it if others didn't.   So you could say that's a "problem" for me. But the problem for you is that he won't be elected/re-elected no matter how badly you want that to happen.

Feel free to bookmark this and taunt me with it if I'm wrong.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 09:52:04 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #185 on: April 05, 2023, 09:48:40 pm »

But the problem for you is that he won't be elected/re-elected no matter how badly you want that to happen.


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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #186 on: April 05, 2023, 10:29:48 pm »
Trump wins one poll

Democrats are winning elections
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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #187 on: April 05, 2023, 10:35:59 pm »
Trump did some good things, no question.  But his flaws also meant that he failed badly at other things that were critical, and at which he should have been able to succeed if he wasn't such a...Trump.

Fair enough.   I don't want him to be the GOP nominee, so obviously I'd prefer it if others didn't.   So you could say that's a "problem" for me. But the problem for you is that he won't be elected/re-elected no matter how badly you want that to happen.

Feel free to bookmark this and taunt me with it if I'm wrong.

The MAGA belief is things will get so bad that the voters will pull the lever for Trump no matter what. It’s possible but I wouldn’t want to stake another election on that.

I didn’t think the term MAGA Republican would matter in 2022 because of voter dissatisfaction with Biden but I was wrong. And it’s still working
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 10:51:35 pm by LMAO »
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Offline Idiot

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #188 on: April 05, 2023, 11:34:18 pm »
Trump wins one poll

Democrats are winning elections
:amen:

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #189 on: April 05, 2023, 11:57:37 pm »
The MAGA belief is things will get so bad that the voters will pull the lever for Trump no matter what. It’s possible but I wouldn’t want to stake another election on that.

To me, that logic is dependent upon Biden being the nominee, which I still believe is unlikely in the end.  They'll run someone younger, and age will be an issue.

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #190 on: April 06, 2023, 01:26:12 am »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Like it or not,it is also the truth.

LOL!

No, it is not.

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #191 on: April 06, 2023, 11:38:13 am »
MAGA

My Ass Got Arrested.
You don’t become cooler with age but you do care progressively less about being cool, which is the only true way to actually be cool.

Offline libertybele

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #192 on: April 06, 2023, 11:42:20 am »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #193 on: April 06, 2023, 11:48:41 am »
MAGA

My Ass Got Arrested.

lol...and quoting a former briefer.... "Top Notch"
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Offline libertybele

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #194 on: April 06, 2023, 11:52:50 am »
To me, that logic is dependent upon Biden being the nominee, which I still believe is unlikely in the end.  They'll run someone younger, and age will be an issue.

RFK Jr. just put his hat in the ring....much younger.  Whether or not the Kennedy name these days will carry him is unlikely.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #195 on: April 06, 2023, 11:56:05 am »
RFK Jr. just put his hat in the ring....much younger.  Whether or not the Kennedy name these days will carry him is unlikely.

There's a lot more optics in this day of poltics over substance.  I can see his voice alone grating dim primary voters.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #196 on: April 06, 2023, 12:01:35 pm »
Garrett Gentry
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.@Reuters:  "Donald Trump remains the Republican party favorite for the 2024 presidential primary despite a criminal indictment. Ron DeSantis' support has weakened since our last poll.”

Trump: 48
Desantis: 19

2:29 PM · Apr 5, 2023

Offline catfish1957

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #197 on: April 06, 2023, 12:05:49 pm »
Garrett Gentry
@GarrettVentry

.@Reuters:  "Donald Trump remains the Republican party favorite for the 2024 presidential primary despite a criminal indictment. Ron DeSantis' support has weakened since our last poll.”

Trump: 48
Desantis: 19

2:29 PM · Apr 5, 2023

Agree.  Unless something drastically happens in the dynamics of this race.  It's over.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #198 on: April 06, 2023, 12:06:10 pm »

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Re: LIVE THREAD...Trump Surrenders
« Reply #199 on: April 06, 2023, 12:07:43 pm »
Agree.  Unless something drastically happens in the dynamics of this race.  It's over.

Trump will never be acquitted, I'd say that's pretty drastic.