Ukraine 3

[sneakypete]

LMAO....

1st rule of successful sincere negotiation is to have the upper hand, or at worst be on even footing.   Maybe Russian's Foreign Minister might want to elaborate that a once boasted 2 week campaign that is now bogged down to 10 months of quagmire meets that criteria.

The fact the "Negotiation" term is even being bantered, is proof that Russia now fears Crimea is at risk.   And that would be a national embarassment of epic proportions.

@catfish1957

This massive brain fart wasn't a mere "step too far",it was an "Olympic leap into foolishness". The FACT that the people in power in the Kremlin still think they are living in the early 50's shows us all how senile those old farts really are.

It also shows us how scared the junior Politburo members are of crossing them. The "Old USSR" is still alive and as sick as ever in the Kremlin.

Until and unless the more junior members get some balls,Russia just might end up in a civil war as people get tired of seeing their sons and relatives shipped off to die in a war none of them understand.

[catfish1957]

@catfish1957

This massive brain fart wasn't a mere "step too far",it was an "Olympic leap into foolishness". The FACT that the people in power in the Kremlin still think they are living in the early 50's shows us all how senile those old farts really are.

It also shows us how scared the junior Politburo members are of crossing them. The "Old USSR" is still alive and as sick as ever in the Kremlin.

Until and unless the more junior members get some balls,Russia just might end up in a civil war as people get tired of seeing their sons and relatives shipped off to die in a war none of them understand.

You bring up valid points about the geo-politico-military mindset of Russia.  Just because you topple the USSR bear in 1990, doesn't mean you can take the 3 generations of USSR mindset out of the Bear.

Especially, for those of us old enough to remember that the USSR possessed the ultimate superiority of arrogance for decades before it's crash. When those types fall, they don't repent....   They get revenge.

[240B]

[sneakypete]

You bring up valid points about the geo-politico-military mindset of Russia.  Just because you topple the USSR bear in 1990, doesn't mean you can take the 3 generations of USSR mindset out of the Bear.

Especially, for those of us old enough to remember that the USSR possessed the ultimate superiority of arrogance for decades before it's crash. When those types fall, they don't repent....   They get revenge.

@catfish1957

The entire world,with the exception of China were terrified of the USSR just a couple of decades ago. Now,even the citizens in Russia are more cautious than terrified.

With the exception of the younger members of the Politburo. They "sit too close to the fire" to risk getting burned unless something major happens that forces them to move on the leadership.

[Smokin Joe]

Seems to me the last time they 'negotiated', Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons for a guarantee their border would be secure.

How's that one working out?

[Cyber Liberty]

Seems to me the last time they 'negotiated', Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons for a guarantee their border would be secure.

How's that one working out?

Pretty damned lousy, once O'Bastard took office.  Not taking sides in this, but I hope Ukraine ends up choking Crimea out of the Bear's maw.

[Hoodat]

Any acceptable terms must begin with the permanent withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian soil and an end to their Sevastopol leases.   And Crimea is Ukrainian soil.

[240B]

Off topic: This describes exactly how the PLO 'negotiates' with Israel. Same thing.

[sneakypete]

Off topic: This describes exactly how the PLO 'negotiates' with Israel. Same thing.

@240B

Not to mention how the DNC "negotiates" with the RNC.

[240B]

[Smokin Joe]

Off topic: This describes exactly how the PLO 'negotiates' with Israel. Same thing.

Whenever the Communists came to the negotiating table, it was to buy time to reinforce, consolidate, and reorganize their forces, whether in Korea, Vietnam, or elsewhere.

[sneakypete]

@240B

If Russia weren't a Soviet military police state,that would cause heads to roll in the military.

The way things are now,the only heads that are going to roll are going to be the heads of the people who let this become public knowledge.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Moscow delivers Ukraine war ultimatum: Accept our terms

https://www.aol.com/news/russias-lavrov-either-ukraine-fulfils-095056554.html

Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.

"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.

"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."

Excerpt.

This is Bruce Campbell's Chin at TOS.

Given that TOS has now turned into Pravda West, my wife's edict of "only one message board" means I'm posting here again. 

[Cyber Liberty]

This is Bruce Campbell's Chin at TOS.

Given that TOS has now turned into Pravda West, my wife's edict of "only one message board" means I'm posting here again.

I haven't been to TOS lately, but welcome back Major!!

[Timber Rattler]

This is Bruce Campbell's Chin at TOS.

Given that TOS has now turned into Pravda West, my wife's edict of "only one message board" means I'm posting here again.

Yo Bruce!!!   

[Timber Rattler]

I haven't been to TOS lately, but welcome back Major!!

It's a dumpster fire, as usual.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

"It’s Orwellian.  They act as though years of contrary reporting never existed, and reality is as they now choose to define it."  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/SystemUpdate_/status/1607832287940603904


"The media has also been burying years of inconvenient reporting on the neo-Nazi affiliated Azov Battalion. Watch the @NYTimes soften their language in real time, as they rebrand the Azov Battalion from openly neo-Nazi, to far-right, to heroic defenders of Ukraine " (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/SystemUpdate_/status/1607832281443635200


"One of the most remarkable features of the Ukraine war is how the media rewrote years of history, almost overnight, to support U.S. intervention in Ukraine. Before Russia invaded, Zelensky was not exactly the poster child for virtuous democratic leadership:"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/SystemUpdate_/status/1607832269791662081

[berdie]

They could be defenders. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

There are Nazis (and other nefarious groups) here as well, are there not? If this country were invaded, would their help be refused?

[Cyber Liberty]

They could be defenders. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

There are Nazis (and other nefarious groups) here as well, are there not? If this country were invaded, would their help be refused?

We are already being invaded from the South, and none of these people give a rip. 

[berdie]

We are already being invaded from the South, and none of these people give a rip.

I was actually thinking about a Ukraine/Russia scenario....but I can't argue with what you say.

[Right_in_Virginia]

There are Nazis (and other nefarious groups) here as well, are there not? If this country were invaded, would their help be refused?

Stopping the years of  brutal military assault by the Azov Battalion on the Donbas region (at the direction of Kiev) is one of the reasons Russia took action.

But now this fact is being erased from history to manipulate and justify our war on Russia.

[berdie]

Stopping the years of  brutal military assault by the Azov Battalion on the Donbas region (at the direction of Kiev) is one of the reasons Russia took action.

But now this fact is being erased from history to manipulate and justify our war on Russia.

Okey Doke. I guess why the Russians are trying to bomb Ukraine to oblivion.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Okey Doke. I guess why the Russians are trying to bomb Ukraine to oblivion.

Why didn't you object to the US and GB shutting off negotiations before the first bombs fell @berdie

[berdie]

Why didn't you object to the US and GB shutting off negotiations before the first bombs fell @berdie

[berdie]

Maybe because the "negotiations" were insincere?