Author Topic: BREAKING – Pfizer stand accused of experimenting on orphan babies to test their Covid-19 vaccine  (Read 476 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 384,739
  • Let's Go Brandon!
BREAKING – Pfizer stand accused of experimenting on orphan babies to test their Covid-19 vaccine
By Daily Expose on October 1, 2021

Allegations that Pfizer are conducting experiments on six-month-old orphans to test their Covid-19 vaccine have been made by whistleblowers in Poland leading to a group of lawyers, medical professionals and activists demanding members of the Polish parliament and Senate organise an urgent conference on Saturday 2nd October.

Children’s Health Defense was recently alerted by Polish whistleblowers that Pfizer is conducting experiments on orphan babies 6 months old to test their new vaccines. Babies and children do not die from Covid and rarely transmit the disease. This alone should be enough to refuse any kind of clinical trials with experimental vaccines.  But Pfizer seems to be operating outside legal boundaries. If this is case, it is simply unacceptable and needs to stop. Answers and action are needed.

 A group of lawyers, medical professionals and activists asked members of the Polish parliament and Senate to organise the following conference on Saturday October 2nd  entitled:

“MEDICAL TESTS ON CHILDREN AND INFANTS – MEDICAL, LEGAL AND ETHICAL ISSUES ”.
The conference is planned at 12pm CET time (Warsaw).
Please watch our re-stream here with live translations as we will follow closely on this issue.


more
https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/01/breaking-pfizer-stand-accused-of-experimenting-on-orphan-babies-to-test-their-covid-19-vaccine/
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline PeteS in CA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,383
 :silly: Children’s Health Defense :silly:

Unless Poland/EU does things differently, neither Pfizer nor BioNTech are doing the testing. The testing would be done by hospitals, universities, etc.. So unless Poland/EU lets pharmaceuticals companies do their own testing, an obvious conflict of interest, either Children’s Health Defense lied or swallowed the lie of someone who played their grossly obvious confirmation bias. Either way:

At some point in looking at a sty full of pig manure one realizes it would be stupid to dive into it hoping to find a slab of bacon. Children's Health Defense's website content is a rancid bacon-free sty full of pig manure.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,027
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Part of the problem with trying to 'get out' any information to the contrary of The Narrative, is that that information will not be aired on the likes of ABCNNBCBS, nor will it appear in the New York Times or Washington Post.
Chances are that Pfizer won't be taking out full page ads in the NYT to discuss this, either.

The only media available to air anything contrary to the official version of reality are those which are not in the mainstream. This means that those attempting to blow the whistle on nefarious or questionable deeds will have to rely on less mainstream websites, publications, whatever means they can use without being factchecked out of existence on sites like Twitter and Fecebook.

It's all well and good to be skeptical, because many things which are unorthodox, or even so out of the general consensus as to be highly questionable, have been published at the very sites which are now the only outlet for information that isn't given the stamp of approval by the very people we recognize as being less than forthright about COVID, statistics about deaths and cases, efficacy of treatments, conduct of studies, and who have even had to retract articles from respected medical journals.

For that reason, you are as likely to find that slab of bacon in the sty you complain about, if not more so, than among those who are assuring you that their vegetable based look-alike actually is bacon, and who strive to silence any information to the contrary, even to the extent of setting up fake factcheckers to deride the people who are saying "that isn't bacon".
While the outlets may have published things you disagree with in the past, that does not change that there have been experiments conducted on children. So lets address that rather than summarily dismiss facts because you don't like the texture of the paper they are printed on.

Worth reading: This is how Pfizer managed to obtain the FDA’s emergency authorization for children

Yaffa Shir-Raz
Serious violations and manipulations of the trial protocol: This is how Pfizer managed to obtain the FDA’s emergency authorization for children

https://www.covil.co.il/en/this-is-how-pfizer-managed-to-obtain-the-fdas-emergency-authorization-for-children/

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results
and
BREAKING – Pfizer stand accused of experimenting on orphan babies to test their Covid-19 vaccine, from October 1, 2021.
https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/01/breaking-pfizer-stand-accused-of-experimenting-on-orphan-babies-to-test-their-covid-19-vaccine/

One of the people involved in the conference about experimentation on children and infants is Mrs. Vera Sharav , a concentration camp survivor, someone who can be described as a person who is vigilant against a resurgence of genocidal (eugenicist) practices.

Don't expect to find that sort of content in the media who are promoting the entire COVID panic, who have demonized effective treatments and continue to keep anything, even double blind study results which indicate efficacy out of the public eye, all the while promoting much more lucrative novel (experimental) solutions to the point of vilifying those who question that practice.

Use those articles in media you might ordinarily dismiss to track down the sources and do a little due diligence.
After all, who believed that those disabled kids who were institutionalized in Germany were going to suffer as a result?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 11:13:09 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,027
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline PeteS in CA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,383
This is well worth reading as well.

https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/02/seven-covid-lies-how-a-newfound-scepticism-saved-me-from-todays-covid-19-cult/

How is this even slightly relevant to the claim in the OP?

But looking at the article:

Quote
LIE#2:  COVID-19 CAN’T BE TREATED

Ummmmmm ... who makes this claim? This is a larger-than-Goliath straw man argument, and straw man arguments, besides being irrelevant, are dishonest.

Quote
LIE#3: SARS-COV-2 HAS BEEN PROVEN TO CAUSE COVID-19

Ri-ight! It's just a total coincidence that 10s of millions of people exhibiting Covid symptoms - some being treated for Covid - also test positive in tests that specifically detects SARS-CoV-2 DNA.

Further down one learns that the writer denies that infectious viruses of any sort exist:

Quote
So there’s NO PROOF vaccines really save lives or so-called “infectious” viruses even exist!

And then cites RFK Jr. as an authority, :silly: ! RFK Jr. has a BA in American History and Literature from Harvard and a JD from the University of Virginia, :silly: .
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,027
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
How is this even slightly relevant to the claim in the OP?

But looking at the article:

Ummmmmm ... who makes this claim? This is a larger-than-Goliath straw man argument, and straw man arguments, besides being irrelevant, are dishonest.

Ri-ight! It's just a total coincidence that 10s of millions of people exhibiting Covid symptoms - some being treated for Covid - also test positive in tests that specifically detects SARS-CoV-2 DNA.

Further down one learns that the writer denies that infectious viruses of any sort exist:

And then cites RFK Jr. as an authority, :silly: ! RFK Jr. has a BA in American History and Literature from Harvard and a JD from the University of Virginia, :silly: .
Your conversion too jab worship is duly noted.

I understand you got really sick.
I know how gasping for breath can send one in search of a saviour. BTDT.

Did they give you remdesevir? Have you done any research on that? How suppressed kidney function causes edema, including fluid buildup in the lungs?

The only treatments acknowledged by the Medical Establishment now pushing for the jabs were ones which required clinical intervention or were priced well beyond the means of the uninsured--and there are a lot of uninsured folks out there, thanks to the ACA and as a spinoff of lockdown unemployment. COBRA plans aren't cheap, providing a person had employer based insurance before all this.

But back on topic, I see you didn't address the experimentation on children at all, and thecrux of my comment was to point out that nothing, and i mean NOTHING adverse to the Narrative about COVID is going to be found in the MSM and other "reputable" sources, because they either will not publish it or are afraid of being scrubbed (like Parler) for not marching in lockstep. Seems to me a forum familiar to us both changed web hosts, in part because of concerns that it might get the same treatment.

But don't look at what the people in the OP had to say. Join in with the cancel culture with ridicule and not facts. Have at. Good luck with that shit.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,403

Experimentation on babies? Count me in!
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline PeteS in CA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,383
Your conversion too jab worship is duly noted.
...

Your ad hominem attack is duly noted as irrelevant to anything discussed on this thread, a tacit admission of unwillingness to address the points in my post, and sadly predictable.

And, yes, while remdesivir is not the topic of this thread, not a vaccine, and not a product of Bogey-Pfizer, I did receive remdesivir, three or four daily infusions. Contrary to the claim of chiropractic doctor, podcaster, and "nutritional supplements" & "natural remedies" hawker Bryan Ardis, my kidney function has been fine, no different than pre-Covid.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online rustynail

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,217
Were these orphans of color?

Online catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,862
  • Gender: Male
Should have been PETA members.....
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,027
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Your ad hominem attack is duly noted as irrelevant to anything discussed on this thread, a tacit admission of unwillingness to address the points in my post, and sadly predictable.

And, yes, while remdesivir is not the topic of this thread, not a vaccine, and not a product of Bogey-Pfizer, I did receive remdesivir, three or four daily infusions. Contrary to the claim of chiropractic doctor, podcaster, and "nutritional supplements" & "natural remedies" hawker Bryan Ardis, my kidney function has been fine, no different than pre-Covid.
I'm happy for you. Not all are so fortunate.
Kidney disorders as serious adverse drug reactions of remdesivir in coronavirus disease 2019: a retrospective case–noncase study
 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7907730/

And once again, denigrating my sources as nontraditional medical sources is really tedious, especially when I have been posting links to medical journals all along through this pandemic. The link above is just one more from the National Center for Biotechnical Information (NCBI), and the National Institute of Health library.

Not exactly the voodoo/witch doctor level, although there may be some charlatanry concealed there.

Drawing again from that reservoir of clinical research, and in the spirit of knowledge being power:

Remdesivir and Acute Renal Failure: A Potential Safety Signal From Disproportionality Analysis of the WHO Safety Database

(the journal of) Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics  (IF6.875),  Pub Date : 2020-12-19, DOI: 10.1002/cpt.2145
Alexandre O. Gérard, Audrey Laurain, Audrey Fresse, Nadège Parassol, Marine Muzzone, Fanny Rocher, Vincent L.M. Esnault, Milou‐Daniel Drici

(full test link)https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cpt.2145

Quote
The combination of the terms “acute renal failure” and “remdesivir” yielded a statistically significant disproportionality signal with 138 observed cases instead of the 9 expected. ROR of ARF with remdesivir was 20‐fold (20.3; confidence interval 0.95 [15.7–26.3], P < 0.0001]) that of comparative drugs. Based on ARF cases reported in VigiBase, and despite the caveats inherent to COVID‐19 circumstances, we detected a statistically significant pharmacovigilance signal of nephrotoxicity associated with remdesivir, deserving a thorough qualitative assessment of all available data. Meanwhile, as recommended in its Summary of Product Characteristics, assessment of patients with COVID‐19 renal function should prevail before and during treatment with remdesivir in COVID‐19.


BTW, virtually every chemical plant pharmaceutical out there has its basis on compounds found somewhere in nature.
It's why Pharma, in its various iterations, has had people combing the corners of the earth for over a century.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,403

https://twitter.com/EricSpracklen/status/1445344182365720577

Summary:
veritastips@protonmail.com
@EricSpracklen
·
12h
BREAKING: @Pfizer Scientists: ‘Your [COVID] Antibodies are Probably Better than the [Pfizer] Vaccination’

"We’re Like Bred And Taught to be Like “Vaccine is Safer Than Actually Getting Covid.”

“Our Organization is Run on Covid Money Now”
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline PeteS in CA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,383
@Smokin Joe, there is a huge difference between that snake oil saleman's claim that remdesivir kills those who receive it and studies that examine rare side effects. By Ardis' claim, I should be dead, but am not; by studies such as that from the NIH (one of which is headed up by Fauci, but I guess his faults aren't a consideration for this topic), I'm not one of the rare people who did suffer kidney damage that may have been from remdesivir (or from Covid?).

I mock the likes of RFK Jr., Joseph Mercola, and Bryan Ardis because that is the respect they deserve. They shovel pig crap against walls and it's not worth digging through their pig crap to see if there's a slab of bacon in it, because there isn't.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline PeteS in CA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,383
Quote
BREAKING: @Pfizer Scientists: ‘Your [COVID] Antibodies are Probably Better than the [Pfizer] Vaccination’ 1.

"We’re Like Bred And Taught to be Like “Vaccine is Safer Than Actually Getting Covid.” 2.

“Our Organization is Run on Covid Money Now” 3.

1. That's possible, but: we don't know enough to claim that confidently; unpleasant, hospitalized, and cases ending in death are far more common than the .00#% of serious complications that may be due to one of the vaccines plus side effects lasting multiple days.

2. The hospitalization rate for Covid, prior to vaccines, was in the neighborhood of 4%. The rate of serious complications that may be due to one of the vaccines is > or >>.01%. So phrase that statement as luridly as you like, it is true, by 2-3 orders of magnitude.

3. Pfizer's 2020 revenue, i.e. pre-Covid-vaccine, was almost $42 billion. Vaccine revenue is not insignificant in 2021, but that comment clearly is hyperbole. But why demonize revenue from the sale of a product? Isn't that what capitalism is?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,862
  • Gender: Male

2. The hospitalization rate for Covid, prior to vaccines, was in the neighborhood of 4%. The rate of serious complications that may be due to one of the vaccines is > or >>.01%. So phrase that statement as luridly as you like, it is true, by 2-3 orders of magnitude.



As far as severity and mortatlity of COVID-19 post vaccination, I am seeing plenty of data showing that there are significant suvivability benefits for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions. That is why in my case, I felt the shot was in my best interest.  I am also leaning toward getting the booster.

OTOH, if I was 30, and in the conditon I was in at 30?  I'd said hell no to the Vax. 

This thing needs to be all about personal choice, as each individual has their own circumstance.  The government needs to butt the hell out of this matter.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,111
As far as severity and mortatlity of COVID-19 post vaccination, I am seeing plenty of data showing that there are significant suvivability benefits for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions. That is why in my case, I felt the shot was in my best interest.  I am also leaning toward getting the booster.

OTOH, if I was 30, and in the conditon I was in at 30?  I'd said hell no to the Vax. 

This thing needs to be all about personal choice, as each individual has their own circumstance.  The government needs to butt the hell out of this matter.


Agreed!

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,027
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
@Smokin Joe, there is a huge difference between that snake oil saleman's claim that remdesivir kills those who receive it and studies that examine rare side effects. By Ardis' claim, I should be dead, but am not; by studies such as that from the NIH (one of which is headed up by Fauci, but I guess his faults aren't a consideration for this topic), I'm not one of the rare people who did suffer kidney damage that may have been from remdesivir (or from Covid?).

I mock the likes of RFK Jr., Joseph Mercola, and Bryan Ardis because that is the respect they deserve. They shovel pig crap against walls and it's not worth digging through their pig crap to see if there's a slab of bacon in it, because there isn't.
My point remains that many claims have some basis in verifiable fact. The more adverse the claim to the narrative, the more it will be suppressed. That's not paranoia, we've seen it with treatments, with the way the press uses pejoratives to describe approved drugs, and in complete ignorance of the body of research out there.

When someone makes some sort of claim, I head off to the scientific journals to see what is being said, who is saying, and I look at their methodology and results to see if there are flaws in their study, mainly to see if the conclusions presented are supported by the data, but also to see if the construction of the study was done in such a way as to produce a desired result. There is a big difference between seeing where the evidence leads and setting out to prove something. For most of us, we'll be glad to see this all end. But there are many in political offices and positions who are gaining power and wealth over the bug, and it is obviously going to their heads.

Unfortunately, that has included unbridled censorship and huge pressure for information outlets to conform to the narrative. Therefore, information contrary to the narrative has to seek alternate outlets, or it will b successfully censored. While we might not consider those outlets completely trustworthy or trust their veracity, at this point we're not going to get more than traces of truth in the majors. For that reason, I believe that we should look at what is being said, rather than summarily dismiss it because of where it is published.

I will go to those websites and look for their sources. I will do web searches for medical literature (journal articles, not sales brochures) on the topic, and see if it is verifiable.

It seems most everyone has something to sell you, whether it be Pfizer, Merck, or some Mom and Pop whipping up Love Potion Number 9 in the sink.

I'm not looking for that, but something to tell me why something does work--or why it doesn't, not just making narrowly based assertions and applying them to a broad spectrum. (Like vaccinating children, who, except for very rare cases, get the bug with few lasting (as far as we know) ill effects, recover and have natural antibodies to fight it and variants in the future).  If the shots work, then they should be a boon to those most at risk, and optional for the rest.

We humans are gloriously varied in that we don't all succumb to the same maladies, we don't all react quite the same to a given drug, and that is a survival mechanism for the species as a whole. Otherwise, we'd be pretty easy to wipe out.

Some even have natural immunity or resistance  to some pathogens (something being investigated recently in reference to the Plague, looking for genetic variations that the survivors had and may have passed down to their descendants). Others acquire immunity by getting sick and overcoming the bug, with or without help from a wide variety of (now, government  approved) pharma, herbs and supplements.

Every culture has had its herbalists, it's medicine men and women, "witch doctors", and pharmacists, and who is to say that an honest and unbiased reassessment of this outbreak won't be made at some time in the future that will look down on the efforts to promote and deride treatments and prophylactic measures for this with the same disdain as we look at the the hawk-billed masks of the Black Death and the penitents flagellating themselves across the continent.

But when someone makes an assertion, I would rather follow the breadcrumbs and see what is there. If there are no sources or data, it's opinion, and maybe even not a learned one, but it should be checked out.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 04:02:34 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis