Arizona State Rep. Mark Finchem Calls for the 2020 Election Results to be Decertified Based on the P

[HikerGuy83]

Lighten up.  An Admin agrees the article you linked should be posted...we are not an echo chamber.

Does this board have an ignore function ?

[Hoodat]

It's an example of what is all over the net.

It is also a position you originally agreed with until you started getting pushback.  Yet here you are again posting someone else saying it, and still not challenging a single premise of it.

For example:

outlets on the right have focused on other sensational and unsupported claims, particularly that tens of thousands of “illegal” ballots were cast

The audit itself proved that tens of thousands of illegal ballots were wrongly included in the election total, a crucial point that you have not once acknowledged.  To the contrary, you have denied that fact, arguing that the inclusion of illegal ballots did not de-legitimize the results.

[HikerGuy83]

It is also a position you originally agreed with until you started getting pushback.  Yet here you are again posting someone else saying it, and still not challenging a single premise of it.

For example:

The audit itself proved that tens of thousands of illegal ballots were wrongly included in the election total, a crucial point that you have not once acknowledged.  To the contrary, you have denied that fact, arguing that the inclusion of illegal ballots did not de-legitimize the results.

Quote me where I said I agreed with that.

I posted that as an example of what is out on the net. 

So stop your lying.

And, I am not interested in challenging any of it since I don't engage fanatics like you in conversations that I consider to be worthless.

[Cyber Liberty]

Does this board have an ignore function ?

Yes, in your Profile there's an Iggy List.

[HikerGuy83]

Yes, in your Profile there's an Iggy List.

Thank you.

Headed there now.

[Hoodat]

Lighten up.  An Admin agrees the article you linked should be posted...we are not an echo chamber.

Did anyone here suggest that it shouldn't?  Didn't think so.  I have no problem with posting the article.  But I will certainly call out any poster for expressing agreement with its contents, just as this poster has done.

I have never been one who backed censoring any content or banning any poster, nor have I ever used the 'ignore' feature.  I relish the opportunity to challenge contrary ideas based on merit and truth, and will always reject the lazy approach of simply making things go away that I don't like.  Personally, I have a hard time reconciling statements about Biden legitimately winning Arizona fair and square with the mountains of contrary evidence revealed from the audit.  But that just me.

[Hoodat]

Quote me where I said I agreed with that.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,443384.msg2503571.html#msg2503571

[Cyber Liberty]

Lets turn down the heat.....

[Hoodat]

Lets turn down the heat.....

Consider it on ice.



But in the future, any time some left-wing trash article appears on this board (regardless of who posted it), I reserve the right to categorize that article as something a Democrat would post.  Capisce?

[Cyber Liberty]

Consider it on ice.



But in the future, any time some left-wing trash article appears on this board (regardless of who posted it), I reserve the right to categorize that article as something a Democrat would post.  Capisce?

That's fair!  I only ask that we criticize the article (as it deserves it), but let's not attack the Briefer who posts it....

[Hoodat]

That's fair!  I only ask that we criticize the article (as it deserves it)

Which I did.  I said it looks like something a Democrat troll would post.  And for that, I was called a moron.

Looks just like something a Democrat troll would post.

Does being a moron come to you naturally ?

Or do you practice at it.

If you find my posts disruptive or detrimental to this forum, just say the word, and I will venture elsewhere.

[Cyber Liberty]

Which I did.  I said it looks like something a Democrat troll would post.  And for that, I was called a moron.


If you find my posts disruptive or detrimental to this forum, just say the word, and I will venture elsewhere.

Don't you dare!  It's just lil ol me, trying to prevent forest fires....and what I wrote above applies to all, not just one side.

[DB]

Which I did.  I said it looks like something a Democrat troll would post.  And for that, I was called a moron.


If you find my posts disruptive or detrimental to this forum, just say the word, and I will venture elsewhere.

We've lost too many already. Don't do it.

[skeeter]

We've lost too many already. Don't do it.

what I do not understand is why the heat seems to be higher now than it was before we had all this evidence of electoral shenanigans. We all should be seeing more eye to eye now than we were in November of 2020.

[HikerGuy83]

We've lost too many already. Don't do it.

I've been on more than a few boards where the fantatics drive off everyone who does not pass their purity test.

You see it in the party too.

I've had no problem telling them what I think on boards and to their faces.

They don't get to tell me what I think and they certainly don't get to tell me how I should think.

You might want to consider that when you beg them to stay.

I used the ignore function, but (unlike other boards) I still have to endure reading their divel when they are quoted.

[DB]

I've been on more than a few boards where the fantatics drive off everyone who does not pass their purity test.

You see it in the party too.

I've had no problem telling them what I think on boards and to their faces.

They don't get to tell me what I think and they certainly don't get to tell me how I should think.

You might want to consider that when you beg them to stay.

I used the ignore function, but (unlike other boards) I still have to endure reading their divel when they are quoted.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[HikerGuy83]

That's fair!  I only ask that we criticize the article (as it deserves it), but let's not attack the Briefer who posts it....

Why not expand your thinking ?

Stop for a moment....who agrees with the article...nobody.  I never have never despite delusional claims to the contrary.

Ask yourself....why was this posted ?

Consider maybe....just maybe.....you know, a slight possibility....that someone does not like the fact that the leaders of my side don't seem to understand that we are seen as not having an organized counter to the garbage the media puts out and is greatly concerned that such comments by someone on the right (such as were quoted in the OP) only work against us as the LWM races to broadcast this to independents who (for better or worse) are substantial voting block and who we need to convince to join our causes.

You might just want to think about that.

It has zero to do with the substance of the argument.  It is all about how it gets painted.

You said it will always be that way.....get over it.

Please recall how Obama was elected a senator.  The media got his opponents divorce proceedings unsealed and wiped him out.  The media buried him.

And then there was Todd Akin.  A guy who really was pretty harmless.  But said something really stupid and got smashed by the media.  He was actually on track to win.  He was a descent guy and had many social conservative views. 

And his statements got him slaughtered.

[sneakypete]

Arizona should decertify their election results since it is now clear that their previous certification included illegal votes far in excess of the margin of error.  It won't change the national election, but it would go a long way towards restoring election integrity within its own State.

@Hoodat

Even more importantly,IMNSHO,it might start a trend by giving other states the push they need to do the same thing.

[skeeter]

@Hoodat

Even more importantly,IMNSHO,it might start a trend by giving other states the push they need to do the same thing.

Doing the right thing, based upon the best available information, is always a good policy & the consequences of doing the right thing are always ultimately desirable. Used to be common sense.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Time for Arizona GOP to break out the S'More flavored Schnapps ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT3IhAPMzVQ

[roamer_1]

quoted from the article:
In the end, the Cyber Ninjas couldn’t pull it off. Their long-awaited report, released late last week, acknowledged that Joe Biden did, in fact, win Maricopa County. Not only that, he won it by a slightly larger margin than previously thought. If the audit was meant to prove the inherent illegitimacy of the 2020 election, it backfired. And for many in the press, it was a moment to spike the football. CNN’s John King wryly observed that it was a “death blow” to Trump’s “fraud fantasy.” Many outlets reported that it “confirmed” Joe Biden’s victory, as if such a thing were in doubt to begin with. Even The Wall Street Journal’s editorial board stepped in to suggest that enough is enough, asking, “When are Republicans going to quit playing this game?”

See, that's just it.... That is not what the report says.

[DB]

See, that's just it.... That is not what the report says.

Yep. It is a total twisting of the truth. The claims made are a serious logic fail. And when you are down to arguing basic logic all that is left is a pig and mud.

[roamer_1]

The right (my side) simply does not have the same organized media apparutus that the left has.

And it is hurting us.

What is hurting you is that right facing media have become the same sort of shills as the MSM.

That is the single major mistake that came with pimping Tumpy up.

I certainly do not believe ANY press anymore... Which is why I waited for an actual implement of the state of AZ to be employed. Evidence tallied with evidentiary value in mind. Such a mill grinds slowly, bit to an infinitely fine grain. Give it time.

[roamer_1]

Yep. It is a total twisting of the truth. The claims made are a serious logic fail. And when you are down to arguing basic logic all that is left is a pig and mud.

That's right, but @HikerGuy83 has a point... Articles like these are used by my batsh*t crazy liberal sister to 'prove' how mislead I am - Even though the record here shows plainly that I didn't listen to the gossip rags on the right.

She is bloody well sure the Right, lead by Tumpy, are assembling a tyranny even as we speak.

One must consider how she came to that conclusion... And it is not hard to see. The leftward-facing media bubble and the rightward-facing media bubble keep the two sides at a fevered pitch.

[HikerGuy83]

See, that's just it.... That is not what the report says.

Are you missing the point ?

Nobody is countering this kind of thing.

[roamer_1]

Are you missing the point ?

Nobody is countering this kind of thing.

Yes they are... But only on the right... preaching to the choir... And so it is. And it is the very same from the left, and never the twain shall meet. That is the utter danger of propaganda instead of journalism.

[HikerGuy83]

That's right, but @HikerGuy83 has a point... Articles like these are used by my batsh*t crazy liberal sister to 'prove' how mislead I am - Even though the record here shows plainly that I didn't listen to the gossip rags on the right.

She is bloody well sure the Right, lead by Tumpy, are assembling a tyranny even as we speak.

One must consider how she came to that conclusion... And it is not hard to see. The leftward-facing media bubble and the rightward-facing media bubble keep the two sides at a fevered pitch.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't have the time I hope to have soon.  But, the little time I have says that the only counters are the ones the left has been able to smear pretty well.

Fox may be popular with the right, but it does not do itself any favors with the likes of Hannity out front. 

I used to really enjoy Bill O'Riley and Greta V.S.  They were much more balanced in their approach.  Even O'Riley could get Bill Maher to come on his show.

And speaking of Maher: He's pretty open about the moronic lies of the left.

I hope to find and support orgs that don't participate in the hyperbolic garbage that is awash on the internet these days.

It is necessary because people are dropping away from the news and there is a great opportunity to fill that vaccum if it isn't name calling and conspiracy theories.

[HikerGuy83]

Yes they are... But only on the right... preaching to the choir... And so it is. And it is the very same from the left, and never the twain shall meet. That is the utter danger of propaganda instead of journalism.

Please share how you think such tripe is being countered. 

I am always interested to learn what is out there....that I might be missing.

[HikerGuy83]

What is hurting you is that right facing media have become the same sort of shills as the MSM.

That is the single major mistake that came with pimping Tumpy up.

I certainly do not believe ANY press anymore... Which is why I waited for an actual implement of the state of AZ to be employed. Evidence tallied with evidentiary value in mind. Such a mill grinds slowly, bit to an infinitely fine grain. Give it time.

You are not alone in not trusting anything.

In my estimation, this is where we have great opportunity.

But if you come out and scream the election should be decrrtified....you lose a lot of your potential audience.

I have been able to talk to lefties on a very even tone and discuss things in a way they don't consider (explained the 10th amendment and the concept of federalism to a woman from Minn about six months ago and she was floored.  She thought the idea that she could go to her state and make it a left wing Utopia was fantastic.  That Kansas didn't need to do the same for her to enjoy what she wanted....that made all the sense in the world to her. 

Then she asked how it was going in our effort to promote this stuff.

Imagine how I felt as I explained that today's federal GOP is just as corrupt as the federal dems in centralizing power and pushing in the direction of a complete nanny state.

There are many out there like her.

They are quiet.

They are not going to share opinions without a lot of trush.

They are largely unaware of the potential of this country and each state.

They are generally more prone to be discourged by the hyperbolic B.S. on both sides.

[roamer_1]

I hope to find and support orgs that don't participate in the hyperbolic garbage that is awash on the internet these days.

It is necessary because people are dropping away from the news and there is a great opportunity to fill that vaccum if it isn't name calling and conspiracy theories.

Good luck with that... I have already pretty well walked off. The truth lies dead in the streets and nobody gives a sh*t. It's all about the tongue waggers, gossipers, and 240 char punchline 'news'... A rumor takes flight and is headline news around the world in minutes.

I still trust Shapiro and Daily Wire pretty far. But he is the last bastion that I find myself believing without scrutiny. The rest - ALL the rest - Have been caught lying through their teeth, or at best not providing for due diligence.

So ping me if you find something reliable and unspun. Because in my mind, that is a unicorn.

[roamer_1]

Please share how you think such tripe is being countered. 

I am always interested to learn what is out there....that I might be missing.

I am not going to go back through it all - This thread suffices. Plenty of links hereon counter the left-wing propaganda.
It just doesn't matter. Like I said, preaching to the choir. None of it crosses over to left wing news, and never will.

[roamer_1]

You are not alone in not trusting anything.

In my estimation, this is where we have great opportunity.

To exploit that opportunity is to require truth in reporting from both sides. And that is not going to happen. The die is cast.

But if you come out and scream the election should be decrrtified....you lose a lot of your potential audience.

That depends upon the argument and your interpretation of what de-cert will do... I know it will not effect the presidential and vice presidential vote, as that cannot be de-certified. That has already been cast in stone.

But there is profit and justice in decertification otherwise, possibly from US House and Senate races all the way down to county dog catcher... And there are criminal and legal ramifications too. I think if your eye is on Tumpy regaining the White House, decertification is a fallacy. But for all the rest of what it will do...

I have been able to talk to lefties on a very even tone and discuss things in a way they don't consider (explained the 10th amendment and the concept of federalism to a woman from Minn about six months ago and she was floored.  She thought the idea that she could go to her state and make it a left wing Utopia was fantastic.  That Kansas didn't need to do the same for her to enjoy what she wanted....that made all the sense in the world to her. 

Then she asked how it was going in our effort to promote this stuff.

Imagine how I felt as I explained that today's federal GOP is just as corrupt as the federal dems in centralizing power and pushing in the direction of a complete nanny state.

There are many out there like her.

They are quiet.

They are not going to share opinions without a lot of trush.

They are largely unaware of the potential of this country and each state.

They are generally more prone to be discourged by the hyperbolic B.S. on both sides.

Like I said, good luck with that. The propaganda machines on BOTH sides will have to be deconstructed, and actual journalism insisted upon...And that is a fat chance kinda thing. 

[Smokin Joe]

What crystal ball do you have that we don't that tells you how democrats will respond to securing election integrity ?

Please share.

Just their resistance to voter ID should be one serious clue.
Motor voter schemes, and mail out ballots are two others.
In the absence of assuring that the person is registered, alive, and identified, all can be used to facilitate fraudulent activity.
It is no accident that Democrats are opposed to such accountability.

[DefiantMassRINO]

In case it hadn't been previously posted, for those who want to decide for themselves.

Cyber Ninjas releases findings on Maricopa County election audit
https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/cyber-ninjas-final-report-on-maricopa-county-election-audit/article_d36f347a-1d6c-11ec-9bcd-3f7997be88dd.html

[Hoodat]

Just their resistance to voter ID should be one serious clue.
Motor voter schemes, and mail out ballots are two others.
In the absence of assuring that the person is registered, alive, and identified, all can be used to facilitate fraudulent activity.
It is no accident that Democrats are opposed to such accountability.

Just as they are opposed to de-certification.

[Smokin Joe]

Just as they are opposed to de-certification.

The obvious problem is that those results should never have been certified in the first place.

In lieu of that, though, there are steps which could avoid all this unpleasantness, and they should be demanded.

Clearing voter rolls a month before the election of those who have died.
Removing those who have moved out of the precinct or county would be good.
Running a check through the records to look for multiple people at the same address might trip a flag here and there.

Verifying addresses to make sure there is something there besides a vacant lot, or at least a valid address.
If chains that deliver food orders can verify addresses (granted, they are not at 100%, but pretty close), I would think a board of elections could. If you live in the precinct, you should have a physical address, even if you get your mail at a box.

Verifying citizenship would be nice, too.

All this is aimed at verifying the eligibility of voters beforehand, especially if ballots are mailed out because: COVID, which will rear its head in time for the midterms, guaranteed.