Why Should a Straight White Male Go to College?

[Kamaji]

My advice is to pursue a vocation, and attend whatever class, school, program, internship, or apprenticeship needed to attain it.

I recommended attending an institution that offers a paid internship, co-op, or apprentice program.

I earned an associate's degree in business administration attending junior college at nights while I worked full-time days.  I transferred into a 4 year college, part-time nights to pursue a bachelor's degree.  I got bored and felt like the school was ripping me off.  I realized that I needed to have skills to differeniate myself in a comptetitive labor force.  I dropped out and enrolled in a technology certificate program, did an internship, and got hired.  I've been working in the field for over 25 years.

My middle sister earned a bachelor's degree in communications, but it really didn't get her anywhere, so she went back to school for nursing.

My youngest sister earned a bachelor's degree in psychology.  It's only value is that is satisfied the arbitrary job requirement of having a bachelor's degree.  She's a supervisor at a Federal agency.

College is not the winning instant lottery ticket that the college preparation and college financing companies sell it as.

Bingo!

[sneakypete]

Outside of STEM courses, college professors are much like that as well.

@Bigun

That's why most of them are professors. They can follow rote,but anything new is too much for them. They are little more than drones.

As the old saying goes,"Those who can do,DO. Those who can't do,teach."

[Smokin Joe]

Naturally, most people assume that a software engineer is a brilliant, smart guy. I can witness first hand that this is not the case. They know math, computers, and software, but that is absolutely all they know. Ask them anything about history or English Literature, they do not have a single clue, even with the simple well known stuff. They do not even know what makes the moon shine.

Furthermore, if you ask them something 'off topic', not only do they not know, frequently they will become angry that you even asked them. "I don't know that stupid shit man! Get the hell out of here." is a common response. They don't know and they do not want to know anything about anything except what is right in front of their face. And, they get angry that you know. (breaking the rules)

All I could talk about with my coworkers was cars, sports, tv, and movies, at work or at parties. Any subject out of that narrow limited scope was off limits. They were smart people, sort of, but only in extremely defined limited boundaries. They had no breadth of knowledge whatsoever. And they were militantly proud of that.

it works like this:

BS degree, You should have an overview of your Major, and know a little about everything.
MS Degree: You have specialized somewhat, and should be knowledgeable about a smaller area of your overall studies.
PhD: You have chosen to be the world's expert on some statistically small portion of your field, and in effect, know everything about almost nothing.

[Smokin Joe]

@Bigun

That's why most of them are professors. They can follow rote,but anything new is too much for them. They are little more than drones.

As the old saying goes,"Those who can do,DO. Those who can't do,teach."

When a grad student, after class I asked a Physics professor about the velocity of gravity. (If E=mC^2, then as a star gives off energy, it losses mass, and with that change in mass comes a change in the gravitational force exerted by (and on) the star. How long does it take for that change to be 'felt' at a distance? When the response was "It's instantaneous." I mentioned that would be faster than light, thinking of gravity as a propagated energy form). I was told in no uncertain terms that if I ever broached the topic again, regardless of my grades, I would be flunked.

[sneakypete]

When a grad student, after class I asked a Physics professor about the velocity of gravity. (If E=mC^2, then as a star gives off energy, it losses mass, and with that change in mass comes a change in the gravitational force exerted by (and on) the star. How long does it take for that change to be 'felt' at a distance? When the response was "It's instantaneous." I mentioned that would be faster than light, thinking of gravity as a propagated energy form). I was told in no uncertain terms that if I ever broached the topic again, regardless of my grades, I would be flunked.

@Smokin Joe

I lost my GI Bill school benefits in 1971 for standing up in class and telling a punk-ass history professor that HE was the punk instead of the VN vets he was badmouthing,because I happened to know for a FACT that his family got him a job in the USCG working with customs in Norfolk Virginia during WW-2,and he never heard a shot fired.

I also offered to pop his head like a pimple if he was ever so foolish as to babble that sort of nonsense in public again within my hearing.

This asshat didn't say a word to me,but he DID complain to the Dean that I had threated him with physical violence in front of his whole class,and even wrote a letter to the VA about it demaning my GI Bill educational benefits be pulled because I was too mentally unstable to attend classes.

I went to see the Dean about this,and I THINK that by that time he had heard from other people what really happened,but he was pretty much forced to support his staff. I also know that professor was no longer working at that community college the next year because being the curious type,I waited a year to see if he was still around.

[Kamaji]

When a grad student, after class I asked a Physics professor about the velocity of gravity. (If E=mC^2, then as a star gives off energy, it losses mass, and with that change in mass comes a change in the gravitational force exerted by (and on) the star. How long does it take for that change to be 'felt' at a distance? When the response was "It's instantaneous." I mentioned that would be faster than light, thinking of gravity as a propagated energy form). I was told in no uncertain terms that if I ever broached the topic again, regardless of my grades, I would be flunked.

A delta in the force of gravity should propagate at the speed of light, just the way that gravity waves propagate.

[goatprairie]

Well, I went to college back in the 1970s, when weed was definitely not legal, but we smoked a shitload of it, anyway.

You could still get a pretty decent education back then, even in the liberal arts/Ivy League milieu where I found myself, because not all of one's professors were raving Marxists, but included a lot of WWII veterans who had grown up a whole lot harder, faster and smarter.

I went to a state college for a period time in the seventies. One of the most popular history professors at the school was also so much a Marxist he defended Stalin. He was a very funny guy in class, but even in my more liberal days I couldn't believe there were still academics who defended Stalin. I had read Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag" trilogy a few years before and had all illusions about the wonders of socialism/communism knocked out of my head. I never did like Castro.
He wasn't the only far leftist in the liberal arts community. There were a number of others. In fact, even in those days it would have been difficult to find a conservative in the history or other liberal arts courses.

[Smokin Joe]

A delta in the force of gravity should propagate at the speed of light, just the way that gravity waves propagate.

Yabbut, that isn't "instantaneous".
Besides, at thee time "gravity waves" were considered crackpot physics--which made me interested.

I know how ideas work in science:

Ridiculed....mercilessly...

...until irrefutable evidence proves it (repeatedly),

Then there is a great stampede to take credit.

Major scientific progress is always made by those who have the guts to ask, "What if?".

[Kamaji]

Yabbut, that isn't "instantaneous".
Besides, at thee time "gravity waves" were considered crackpot physics--which made me interested.

I know how ideas work in science:

Ridiculed....mercilessly...

...until irrefutable evidence proves it (repeatedly),

Then there is a great stampede to take credit.

Major scientific progress is always made by those who have the guts to ask, "What if?".

True enough.

[Gefn]

it works like this:

BS degree, You should have an overview of your Major, and know a little about everything.
MS Degree: You have specialized somewhat, and should be knowledgeable about a smaller area of your overall studies.
PhD: You have chosen to be the world's expert on some statistically small portion of your field, and in effect, know everything about almost nothing.

It’s Bull shirt
More shirt
Piled higher and deeper.

 

[Gefn]

I went to college during The 80s. It seemed most of my professors liked Reagan

Anyway, I had to declare a major on my first day. I was 17, a very emotionally immature 17. Had no clue what I wanted to do, so I declared, English because I love reading and writing. Had minors in Creative Writing, History, and Psychology.

Did a Masters in Victorian Lit, because my grad assistant job gave me a free ride, minus books.

First job out of college was working at a defunct bookstore chain. Then , as someone’s PA (secretary) and hated it. Worked part time in that bookstore on weekends.

Ended up having a career for a news outlet. Ghost wrote two books, which gave me a little bit of money.

Now, if I could redo it, I’d double major in English, and Nursing.

I do think people should minor in English, because employers think this person can read and write.

[AARguy]

After years in the Army I took my engineering degree and MBA and worked in high tech. I remember meeting the guys that ran BBN (they were DARPA's primary contractor for developing the internet) at a formal meeting in Cambridge. Later, my team joked about how introductions weren't really necessary. The CEO was the guy treated with deference. The COO was the OTHER guy in the Armani suit. The CFO was the guy with the horn rimmed glasses and all the paperwork in his hands. The head engineer was the serious guy with the look of a professor. The head software engineer was the guy in sandals, with the pony tail, and his lunch in a paper bag at his seat.

[Elderberry]

I went to college assuming that's what you do. I loved chemistry, so that's what I took. Well us kids got kicked out of the house so our folks could split up, so off to the NAVY I went as a radar tech. I worked 3 jobs, a radar tech, an Ops Dept supply PO, and a test equip repair and calibration PO. Not much need for chemistry. Got out and then learned by OJT to be a transformer engineer. Went to nite school and changed major to electronics. Once degreed, went to work integrating, testing, CM, and QA at Johnson Space Center. Many of my co-workers were not degreed. Looking back I know I could have gotten picked up without my degree.

I foolishly tried to coax my first child to go to college. He and four of his HS wrestling team-mates all joined the NAVY upon graduation. When he got out he got picked up by Weatherford to tear down oil tools. He didn't do that for long before he was chosen to be OJT trained to become a Measurement While Drilling Field Engineer. In the selection he beat out several degreed engineers. After many layoff cycles, he was picked up by SpaceX, and is a ground crew lead at Boca Chica. He still tells me he'll go to school to go into management. I bet he never does.

Now my next 2 kids both went straight to college from HS. My daughter made it thru HS in 3 yrs and then to college. I don't think my daughter could have made manager where she currently is without her degree in Insurance and Risk Mgmt.

My youngest with a BS in programming is currently leading a group of subcontractors and is working toward getting into cybersecurity. I really don't know if he would have been picked up without his degree.

[Bigun]

I went to college during The 80s. It seemed most of my professors liked Reagan

Anyway, I had to declare a major on my first day. I was 17, a very emotionally immature 17. Had no clue what I wanted to do, so I declared, English because I love reading and writing. Had minors in Creative Writing, History, and Psychology.

Did a Masters in Victorian Lit, because my grad assistant job gave me a free ride, minus books.

First job out of college was working at a defunct bookstore chain. Then , as someone’s PA (secretary) and hated it. Worked part time in that bookstore on weekends.

Ended up having a career for a news outlet. Ghost wrote two books, which gave me a little bit of money.

Now, if I could redo it, I’d double major in English, and Nursing.

I do think people should minor in English, because employers think this person can read and write.

Late in my career I worked as a SME (subject matter expert) for a large consulting firm which supplied all kinds of technical materials to clients in the Oil, Gas, and Petrochemical industries. There were Fifteen or twenty guys in my department that wrote the material that went into those things.

When we completed something, it then went to your department @Gefn to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed so to speak. There were three very nice looking and smelling young ladies in your department with whom we invariably had to consult to make sure that the technical did not get overridden by correct English. It was quite a struggle, but we managed to get it done over time. I loved my job!

[mountaineer]

Now that our (Penn State-indoctrinated) niece is interested in attending law school, Mr. M and I (both "recovering" lawyers) have been thinking back to our days of LSATs, law school, bar exams, etc. We both would say law school was the biggest mistake of our lives. The only redeeming value of our becoming lawyers is that it's how we met - working in the same law office, and then getting the heck out as quickly as we could!

If you have high school age children or grandchildren, it is so important to sit down and talk with them about where they want to go in life. What are their interests and talents? Don't just send them off to college to "find themselves" or to figure out what they want to do with their lives. They need to be challenged to know more about themselves before they get there.

[sneakypete]

Now that our (Penn State-indoctrinated) niece is interested in attending law school, Mr. M and I (both "recovering" lawyers) have been thinking back to our days of LSATs, law school, bar exams, etc. We both would say law school was the biggest mistake of our lives. The only redeeming value of our becoming lawyers is that it's how we met - working in the same law office, and then getting the heck out as quickly as we could!

If you have high school age children or grandchildren, it is so important to sit down and talk with them about where they want to go in life. What are their interests and talents? Don't just send them off to college to "find themselves" or to figure out what they muwant to do with their lives. They need to be challenged to know more about themselves before they get there.

@mountaineer

The problem is that for decades getting college degrees has been all about money and not having to do physical work,when the focus all along should have been on "What will make you happy".

Unless you are a very twisted individual,it ain't money beyond what it takes to live a comfortable life knowing you have insurance.

And *I* can't tell you what it is,either. It's up to YOU to determine that. NOT your parents,YOU.

[mountaineer]

And *I* can't tell you what it is,either. It's up to YOU to determine that. NOT your parents,YOU.

Exactly. The parents only can guide the conversation and be perceptive. But the kid has to come to a realization of what sort of work would be satisfying. I didn't find the job/career that I should have had all along until I was 42, because I had no idea at age 17 what to do with my life. I just went off to college and majored in the wrong subject.

[Free Vulcan]

It’s Bull shirt
More shirt
Piled higher and deeper.

 

Now that's funny right there.

[Bigun]

Now that our (Penn State-indoctrinated) niece is interested in attending law school, Mr. M and I (both "recovering" lawyers) have been thinking back to our days of LSATs, law school, bar exams, etc. We both would say law school was the biggest mistake of our lives. The only redeeming value of our becoming lawyers is that it's how we met - working in the same law office, and then getting the heck out as quickly as we could!

If you have high school age children or grandchildren, it is so important to sit down and talk with them about where they want to go in life. What are their interests and talents? Don't just send them off to college to "find themselves" or to figure out what they want to do with their lives. They need to be challenged to know more about themselves before they get there.

For a LONG time Perry Mason had me convinced that I wanted to be a lawyer, but God had other plans and I thank him every day for the roadblocks that prevented that from happening.

You are so right about providing guidance. My children largely grew up living overseas and were about two years ahead of their classes when we returned to the states. It was difficult for us to keep their interest up until they graduated. The plus side is that having seen what was out there, all were motivated to do well and they have done so.

[Elderberry]

I started my first child in Catholic school until one year he had 4 different teachers. So it was public school after that. I taught him math myself, so he found himself not learning very much from his teachers. He coasted until his senior physics teacher put him down, so he showed his teacher up. Their project was a trebuchet. It had to stay within small defined dimensions, but weight wasn't specified. I think he used around 50 lbs of barbell weights(maybe more), the arm was very light, but strong, and launched my 1 in dia lead balls I used in my cannon. It would really blast those things.

I believe he regretted joining the NAVY under a guaranteed enlistment for Nuclear Machinist Mate. Because once he was enlisted, he then realized he really wanted Special Forces. He tried to transfer several times. The last time, his transfer was approved by his Captain and all the way up the nuclear organization where it was shot down. He was basically told, Once a Nuke, Always a Nuke. He was told the only way for him to now go Spec Ops was to be discharged and then re-enlist, which he wasn't about to do.

[sneakypete]

Exactly. The parents only can guide the conversation and be perceptive. But the kid has to come to a realization of what sort of work would be satisfying. I didn't find the job/career that I should have had all along until I was 42, because I had no idea at age 17 what to do with my life. I just went off to college and majored in the wrong subject.

@mountaineer

I had no idea what to do at age 17 either,but I knew I had to something because my parents started telling me I was out of the house when I turned 18 when I was maybe 8 or 10,so I just joined the army to have a place to live and to learn my options.

Luckily for me I got drafted in to Special Forces after being interviewed in basic training and refusing to volunteer (recruiter was stupid enough to tell me I would be living in the woods and eating snakes).

Went on to jump school (an extra $55 per month) after going to signal school,and after graduation me and 2 other guys out of 187 graduates (class started with 425 students 3 weeks earlier) got orders to report to the Special Warfare School at Ft.Bragg.

I SUSPECT part of this might have been because one of the jump school instructors had a SF combat patch,and when he got on my ass one day and told me he was going to run me out of the course,I told him that he and three more motherhumpers just like him weren't man enough to run ME off.

What can I say? I was 17,and stupid.

Anyhow,the next few days were nothing short of brutal,but I was so pissed off I refused to quit. After maybe the 3rd or 4th day,he slapped me on the shoulder,smiled,and just walked away without saying another word.

Got to Signal Company of the 3rd SFG,and hated it with a freaking passion. Ended up knocking my platoon sgt unconscious in morning formation one day when he leaned right into my face and called me a punk mofo and threatened to whip my ass. I told him as he lay unconscious in the company street to go home that night and tell his wife his punk ass got whipped by someone HE thought was a punk.

Since he started it by threatening me with physical violence if front of witnesses,I didn't get court martialed,but I did get sent off to a Signal Battalion in the 18th ABN Corps . Duty was no better there. The first few months we spend pretty much every day servicing trucks in the motor pool that never went anywhere,and never taking any training classes at all. 

Along came the uprising in the Dominican Republic,and off I went to the DR. Liking rum a lot and liking MP's a lot less than I liked rum,I spent most of my time in the DR digging 8x8 x8 trenches,filling them up,and then digging them up again. I can't remember if this was after I started the riot at the local high school (Hey! The girls were the same age as me!) or after I got drunk and somehow ended up in Haiti.

Anyhow,the instant I got back to Ft.Bragg I went to see  a personnel clerk I knew casually,and told him I would give him a bottle of Jim Beam if he got me on the first set of transfer orders to come in. When he asked if I had a preference,I told him Germany,but would take anything available that wasn't at Bragg.

I got orders transferring me to the 1st SFG on Okinawa. Which REALLY pissed me off because of my experience with the 3rd SFG Signal Company at Bragg.

So I refused to wear a beret. I figured this would get me transferred somewhere else because since I wasn't qualified to wear one,there was no way the army could legally force me to wear one.

The end result was I was ordered to report to the 1st Group SGM at Camp Kue and explain myself. This was SGM George W. Dunaway,and he was one of the teenage Rangers that climbed the cliffs at Normandy beach head on invasion day to take out the artillery pieces that were shelling the invasion ships. He had also won a bunch of medals during the Korean War. Kinda an intimidating figure,but I knew I had army regulations on my side,so I wasn't worried.

Surprising the hell out of me,he spoke to me in a reasonable tone of voice and just asked me why I refused to wear a beret. I told him for the same reason I wasn't wearing the 3rd award of a CIB,master blaster jump wings,or SGM stripes like him. I hadn't earned them and I wasn't going to wear them.

That's when it got tricky,and he caught me by surprise. He asked me "How about if I were to transfer you to a line company and arrange to have you cross-trained and become a qualified SF radio operator? Would you wear a beret then?

Knowing this was NOT going to happen,I answered "of course",and found myself as the newest junior radio operator in A Company,1st SFG .

I thought to myself,"Self,you REALLY screwed up this time!",but it was the best mistake of my life. I not only found a home,I found what I was born to do. GREATEST bunch of people I ever met in my whole life,and everybody in the Company was friendly,from the lowest ranking E-4 to the Lt Colonel that commanded the company. BTW,that company commander was Ola Mize,Medal of Honor winner during the Korean War.

I was swimming in deep waters there. Not a pretender in the bunch. As long as you worked hard and were dedicated to the mission,you were a brother regardless of rank.

I had to leave SF after getting medievaced from VN,and haven't found a job since that I lived 10 percent as much as I loved being in SF.

I actually found my calling in life by accident,and in spite of myself.

[sneakypete]

I started my first child in Catholic school until one year he had 4 different teachers. So it was public school after that. I taught him math myself, so he found himself not learning very much from his teachers. He coasted until his senior physics teacher put him down, so he showed his teacher up. Their project was a trebuchet. It had to stay within small defined dimensions, but weight wasn't specified. I think he used around 50 lbs of barbell weights(maybe more), the arm was very light, but strong, and launched my 1 in dia lead balls I used in my cannon. It would really blast those things.

I believe he regretted joining the NAVY under a guaranteed enlistment for Nuclear Machinist Mate. Because once he was enlisted, he then realized he really wanted Special Forces. He tried to transfer several times. The last time, his transfer was approved by his Captain and all the way up the nuclear organization where it was shot down. He was basically told, Once a Nuke, Always a Nuke. He was told the only way for him to now go Spec Ops was to be discharged and then re-enlist, which he wasn't about to do.

@Elderberry
 
The ONLY Special Forces are in the US Army. The US Navy has Special OPERATIONS Forces that are commonly known as SEALS,but they are NOT Special Forces.

[Elderberry]

@Elderberry
 
The ONLY Special Forces are in the US Army. The US Navy has Special OPERATIONS Forces that are commonly known as SEALS,but they are NOT Special Forces.

So excuse the hell outta me for not knowing the proper vernacular.

[sneakypete]

So excuse the hell outta me for not knowing the proper vernacular.

@Elderberry

Kinda sensitive about this,ain't you?

It is a common mistake made by the media,who are professional ignorant bitches,and quite naturally people who hear them say this and who don't know any better,innocently repeat it.

[Smokin Joe]

@mountaineer

The problem is that for decades getting college degrees has been all about money and not having to do physical work,when the focus all along should have been on "What will make you happy".

Unless you are a very twisted individual,it ain't money beyond what it takes to live a comfortable life knowing you have insurance.

And *I* can't tell you what it is,either. It's up to YOU to determine that. NOT your parents,YOU.

I recall telling my Father that I had decided to major in Geology (over pursuing Law). He asked what I was going to do with that, and I told him, "Dad, I don't know, but I love it."

In the years since graduation, I have made my living as a geologist, 9 years out of every ten (I'm on year 43 since grad school). In the other years, I worked a wide variety of "survival" jobs, while the oil patch was depressed.