Is hydrogen the new oil?

[rangerrebew]

Is hydrogen the new oil?
Hydrogen may have lost the race to fuel electric cars but it looks a likely contender to replace fossil fuels in trucks, ships, planes and heavy industry
 

Fred Pearce

July 13, 2021

The Tokyo Olympics, assuming they go ahead later this month, will be powered by a fuel with ambition – hydrogen. The Olympic flame is already burning it. The Olympic village will be powered by hydrogen made at a solar power plant in the exclusion zone created after the Fukushima nuclear accident a decade ago. Toyota’s Mirai cars, which run on hydrogen-fuel cells, will provide most of the Games’ official transport.

“The 1964 Tokyo Olympics left the Shinkansen high-speed train system as its legacy. The upcoming Olympics will leave a hydrogen society as its legacy,” Yoichi Masuzoe, then governor of Tokyo, declared in 2016.

Japan, once a passionate advocate of nuclear energy, now has serious hydrogen ambitions. The country has the world’s largest network of hydrogen filling stations. It is planning to replace fossil fuels with hydrogen in heavy industries such as steel-making. And it has a head start in organising imports of the fuel. In 2019, Kawasaki Heavy Industries launched the Suiso Frontier, the world’s first ship designed to carry liquefied hydrogen. It aims to tap promised Australian hydrogen production.

https://chinadialogue.net/en/energy/is-hydrogen-the-new-oil/

[rangerrebew]

My sister-in-law's brother has a PHD and works on this.  My brain isn't sophisticated enough to understand everything but from what I can gather, hydrogen burns so hotly traditional engines can't handle it.  It isn't so much they haven't figured out how to use it, it's use it in what?

[Restored]

"Oh the humanity..."

[thackney]

My sister-in-law's brother has a PHD and works on this.  My brain isn't sophisticated enough to understand everything but from what I can gather, hydrogen burns so hotly traditional engines can't handle it.  It isn't so much they haven't figured out how to use it, it's use it in what?

Far more economical to use it in a fuel cell than an ICE.

[Fishrrman]

Everyone will be driving around in a mini-version of this:

[thackney]

Everyone will be driving around in a mini-version of this:

You think gasoline is not flammable?

One Statistic Shows Why Everyone Needs To Relax About The Recent Tesla Fires
https://www.businessinsider.com/17-cars-catch-on-fire-every-hour-in-the-us-2013-11

...So it's good to keep in mind just how often non-Tesla cars — most of which are filled with gasoline — catch fire.

Try 17 every hour in the United States, between 2006 and 2010. That's more than 150,000 annually, which kill some 209 civilians every year....

[thackney]

https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell

Honda will provide you with a fuel card good for up to $15,000 worth of hydrogen fuel during your three-year lease.*

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=HY

[Elderberry]

Wow! There's a fuel station only 1,300 miles from me.

Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=HY

[Hoodat]

Is hydrogen the new oil?
Hydrogen may have lost the race to fuel electric cars but it looks a likely contender to replace fossil fuels in trucks, ships, planes and heavy industry

Complete unadulterated bullshit.

[Hoodat]

Wow! There's a fuel station only 1,300 miles from me.

Where did that fuel station get its hydrogen?

[DB]

Where did that fuel station get its hydrogen?

Unicorn farts, don't you know?

[Smokin Joe]

My sister-in-law's brother has a PHD and works on this.  My brain isn't sophisticated enough to understand everything but from what I can gather, hydrogen burns so hotly traditional engines can't handle it.  It isn't so much they haven't figured out how to use it, it's use it in what?

I worked with it running FID gas detectors and chromatographs. It's a pain in the arse, for starters. A high pressure leak will autoignite, burns clear and very hot. It will slowly leak through the walls of steel cylinders. I have trouble seeing people pumping their own without some serious mishaps.

The crew on the Hindenburg knew the stuff, took precautions, and still crashed and burned.

[Smokin Joe]

Wow! There's a fuel station only 1,300 miles from me.

Gee, so close?

[catfish1957]

OTOH, I cringe everytime I see a government vehicle or a bus fueled with tanked CNG. 

1 car length per 10 mph?  I fudge in the direction of caution when I encounter these.

[catfish1957]

Fun fact.....  Hydrogen tends to autoignite in air at ambient.   

[thackney]

Fun fact.....  Hydrogen tends to autoignite in air at ambient.   

You must keep your thermostat a lot higher than mine.

Hydrogen Auto-ignition temperature: 560°C (1,040°F)
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0001.htm

[catfish1957]

You must keep your thermostat a lot higher than mine.

Hydrogen Auto-ignition temperature: 560°C (1,040°F)
https://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0001.htm

Well, at one of our plants, let me just say that this particular H2 vent had a habit of igniting.  Given it was burning like a slow weeping flare, but it still would autoignite.

[thackney]

Well, at one of our plants, let me just say that this particular H2 vent had a habit of igniting.  Given it was burning like a slow weeping flare, but it still would autoignite.

Hydrogen has a very low energy level to ignite.  Hard to say not knowing the details but static discharge is a like source of ignition.  But that is different from auto-ignition.

More info at:

Spontaneous ignition of hydrogen
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr615.pdf

[Kamaji]

What about hydrogen embrittlement?  Or is that no longer a problem?

[yodaspock]

Remember that hydrogen is the smallest sized molecule it leaks through just about everything we make to store it, so its got to be made just before it's used. It also flames upwards because it's lighter than air. The Hindenburg was found to be painted in rocket fuel that's what made it so bad looking.

[thackney]

What about hydrogen embrittlement?  Or is that no longer a problem?

Carbon Fiber and Aluminum Linings are some of the ways that is handled.

https://worthingtonindustries.com/Products/High-Pressure-Composites/Hydrogen-Fuel-Tanks

However, we have used carbon steel alloys in hydrogen pipelines for a while.  I believe they have that handled.  Many refineries us hydrogen as part of the refining process.  The technology is not new.

Hydrogen for refineries is increasingly provided by industrial suppliers
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=24612

https://www.airproducts.com/gases/hydrogen

[Joe Wooten]

Fun fact.....  Hydrogen tends to autoignite in air at ambient.   

You have to reach the right concentration to get it to auto ignite at room temperature. I think it is 5%.

[Joe Wooten]

The main problem with using hydrogen as a fuel is the fact it takes more energy to create it than you get out of it. It is a guaranteed money loser.