BREAKING>>Officer Derek Chauvin who pinned George Floyd taken into custody

[catfish1957]

That won't placate the mob. Nothing less than a death penalty case will do.

MY thougts exactly. 

From MN statutes...

609.195 - MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE. (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

[truth_seeker]

Fairly common. My son had fourteen actions brought against him. Fourteen. All disproved/frivolous...
What saved him every time was the tape. I always thought it a burden that he was on tape all the time... But he is happy to have it.

What is your judgment on this incident in  the videos in the news?

[musiclady]

Prosecutors warn there is 'evidence that does not support criminal charge' in case of four cops accused of killing George Floyd

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8367221/Prosecutors-warn-evidence-does-not-support-criminal-charge-George-Floyds-killing.html

Ah............ so not anything definitive (obviously), but a warning in case people might be disappointed.

[mountaineer]

No physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation”...combination of force & health problems contributed to death.

I posted on another thread a story about the 911 call, which indicated Mr. Floyd was extremely intoxicated at the time. That may be a contributing factor.

[catfish1957]

I posted on another thread a story about the 911 call, which indicated Mr. Floyd was extremely intoxicated at the time. That may be a contributing factor.

We once had a unfortuante event nearby where a black gentleman died while being brough into custody on a traffic stop.  There was outrage, and even the New Black Panther Party came for a protest.  It all kind of simmered down after the TOX screening indicated he had enough drugs in his system to kill 3 people.

[roamer_1]

What is your judgment on this incident in  the videos in the news?

I honestly don't know.
How does one get from being treated normally in an arrest to being balled up against a squad car with 4 cops sitting on ya? That don't make no sense. Something else happened.

I said early on that neck hold does not cause asphyxia, having been in that exact position twice. Hurts like the devil if they want it to, but it won't cut off your air... I know that's right, and it sounds like the autopsy proved it...

I also said I figured there was a heart episode or something, more likely the cause of his inability to breath... Autopsy implicates health issues...

Would expect the cops to ignore pleas from a struggling perp.... such whining is very common, and like I said, the cop knew he wasn't cutting off his air. Likely why no aid was rendered.

Don't know what more to make of it.

[catfish1957]

I honestly don't know.
How does one get from being treated normally in an arrest to being balled up against a squad car with 4 cops sitting on ya? That don't make no sense. Something else happened.

In Heimlich Red Cross training, don't they determine that one of the first choking signs is vicitm is unable to speak?  Think about it, a choking person can not expusle his lungs, as there is an obstruction between lungs/trachea and vocal cords.

If this individual was communicating, how was he choking?  Not defending this action at all.  Just wondering.

[roamer_1]

In Heimlich Red Cross training, don't they determine that one of the first choking signs is vicitm is unable to speak?  Think about it, a choking person can not expusle his lungs, as there is an obstruction between lungs/trachea and vocal cords.

If this individual was communicating, how was he choking?  Not defending this action at all.  Just wondering.

Right... And I commented on that exactly already... I know it looks awful, but LEOs are trained to administer pain and restrain folks without injury as much as is possible. That ain't to say they will not beat you silly if it gets that far, or whip your ass with an asp... But none of that happened here.

I doubt they will find much for injury on the feller. This was a swarm and constrain tactic, with pain-hold application to persuade compliance... Kinda like twitchin a horse... less like a bull-prod.

[mountaineer]

Here's a pdf of the criminal complaint filed against the Chauvin: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf

Some snippets:

Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320)at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic.   ...

The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side.Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, sayinghe was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than200 pounds. While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. ...

The fullreport of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death. The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.  ...

[EasyAce]

It is GOOD that this thug in a uniform is now incarcerated.  He is a pox on society, and especially the police whose uniform and reputation he has besmirched.

@musiclady
That spinning sound you hear is my paternal grandfather---a New York police officer (he retired the same year I was born)---in his grave. This would have sickened him.

[roamer_1]

The whole 'Thug in a Uniform' thing...

A twenty year veteran of the force, a beat cop... with nothing but two reprimands in his jacket. All other complaints investigated and dismissed by IAD... Twice decorated, (city) Medal of Valor...

[musiclady]

@musiclady
That spinning sound you hear is my paternal grandfather---a New York police officer (he retired the same year I was born)---in his grave. This would have sickened him.

@EasyAce - this should sicken any honorable man.  Any honorable human being.

Thinking of taking a break from here.  The excuses are becoming too much...

[mountaineer]

While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe.

This is an interesting part of the preliminary report. What's the source of this info, I wonder, other than the same cops involved in the incident, who might have reported it in an effort to cover their own butts? Well, he already had trouble breathing, it had nothing to do with taking him to the ground and applying a knee to his neck ...

It would be interesting to find out whether anyone else heard this complaint while Floyd was still upright.

[catfish1957]

Thinking of taking a break from here.  The excuses are becoming too much...

Who is giving excuses?  I think most everyone thinks this was excessive force.  The only question is whether there were other circumstances that caused his death?  Is getting all the facts in before making total judgement too much?

[musiclady]

Who is giving excuses?  I think most everyone thinks this was excessive force.  The only question is whether there were other circumstances that caused his death?  Is getting all the facts in before making total judgement too much?

No.  If that's all people are doing.

[catfish1957]

No.  If that's all people are doing.

Another thread has given autopsy results as likely a cardio-event. Even with that , I think he is going to have a tough time avoiding a Murder-3 charge.  Which in most states consitutes Involuntary Manslaughter. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Another thread has given autopsy results as likely a cardio-event. Even with that , I think he is going to have a tough time avoiding a Murder-3 charge.  Which in most states consitutes Involuntary Manslaughter.

What's the typical sentence for murder-3? Because a light prison sentence might be round two for the riots at the trial.

[catfish1957]

What's the typical sentence for murder-3? Because a light prison sentence might be round two for the riots at the trial.

From MN code....

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE. (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
=========================================================================

[mountaineer]

2019 Minnesota Statutes
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

[mountaineer]

CNN:

A look at why ex-police officer Derek Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder
Nicole Chavez, associate writer CNN Digital


... Chauvin may have decided to kneel on Floyd's neck and ignored his pleas to breathe but prosecutors may not have believed those actions meant that he had any intention to kill.

At least not at this point, said CNN legal analyst Laura Coates, a former assistant US attorney for the District of Columbia.

"You're seeing the prosecutor's office, I think, looking at the fact that this was a police officer," Coates said. "What a reasonable police officer would have done, but also, whether this officer intended to get up this morning or have that interaction with Mr. George Floyd and cause his death."

The higher murder charges in Minnesota require that a person plans and willingly carries a killing or has the intention to kill in the spur of the moment.  ...

Prosecutors appear to believe Chauvin's actions were unintentional but the law still recognize them as a crime, Coates said.

For the third-degree murder charge, prosecutors will have to prove something called depraved indifference. ...

More

[catfish1957]

CNN:More

Anything less than Murder 1 conviction will be an invitation for the rioting pukes to start Mayhem Part II.

[mountaineer]

Anything less than Murder 1 conviction will be an invitation for the rioting pukes to start Mayhem Part II.

That's what I meant by my first comment upthread. Those who demand the death penalty lack a certain understanding of the law. If the charges filed by the prosecutor don't actually fit the facts - especially the findings of the medical examiner - then the bad guy won't get any jail time at all. We've seen only preliminary findings - let's wait for the full autopsy report. It is possible to upgrade the charges if the evidence supports it.

[truth_seeker]

What's the typical sentence for murder-3? Because a light prison sentence might be round two for the riots at the trial.

You mean Rodney King officer sentencing--1992.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I don't think anyone, including me, is arguing the actions of the police officer(s) did not contribute to Floyd's death.  They did---and a legal price should, and will, be paid.

But this doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't ask questions.

For instance, I would like to know if there's additional video we've not seen and what MN officers are trained to do in such situations.  Does training and policy require officers to cease activities and request immediate medical intervention?  Does training and policy include  something along the lines of "if they're talking, they're breathing"?  (If asked to guess,--and it's only a guess--I would say "I can't breathe" would be a fairly common response in arrest situations.)

If these were rogue cops, acting outside training and policy, then throw the full weight of the law and punishment at them.  If they were not, then both should be adjusted accordingly and changes/clarifications in police procedures need to implemented (nationwide).

My two cents.   

[truth_seeker]

We expect a lot from the cops. It is a tough job.

I know some retired LEOs. LAPD,  OC Sherriff, Calif. Highway Patrol, US Secret Service.

Neighbors, friends,  relatives, running buddies, guys in Alcoholics Anonymous.
 
My wife and I know families of two officer involved deaths.

In Fullerton , mCA metally ill Kelly Thomas died at the hands of police. Kelly's own father was former LEO.

I'm certain none of the cops wake up and say "I'mm gonna kill somebody today."

I'm sad again, for my country. I try to have empathy for all sides involved.