Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[Idiot]

What I think is absolutley heinous, is that though the HCQ regimient might not be a cure all, it might work in some cases.  So how many people might have not needed to die the past 4 months by this disinformation campaign. 

I think that is part of the paranoia on the left.  Not only the political aspects, but whether they may be held accountible 1000's, or 10,000's of thousands of deaths.

Good Morning America's Stephanopoulos was trashing HCQ this morning.  What an @sshole.

[catfish1957]

HCQ with zithromycin and zinc may be effective in many cases. The combo has proven to be effective, in fact. But the Dems say not to try it at all. I have to wonder why they oppose the propect of people recovering from this virus? What depth of evil actually cheers for more deaths?

The left wing of this country, that would destroy us to depose Trump.

[Bigun]

HCQ with zithromycin and zinc may be effective in many cases. The combo has proven to be effective, in fact. But the Dems say not to try it at all. I have to wonder why they oppose the propect of people recovering from this virus? What depth of evil actually cheers for more deaths?

$$$$$$ in the form of campaign donations from Big Pharma.  Less than $100 for the entire HCQ treatment regememine vs many thousands per dose for  a vaccine.  It's not difficult to figure this one out @mountaineer

[Smokin Joe]

$$$$$$ in the form of campaign donations from Big Pharma.  Less than $100 for the entire HCQ treatment regememine vs many thousands per dose for  a vaccine.  It's not difficult to figure this one out @mountaineer

It is simpler than that.

A cheap, effective treatment for COVID removes the one essential thing that lets the Left use the disease to control people: FEAR.

[GrouchoTex]

What I think is absolutley heinous, is that though the HCQ regimient might not be a cure all, it might work in some cases.  So how many people might have not needed to die the past 4 months by this disinformation campaign. 

I think that is part of the paranoia on the left.  Not only the political aspects, but whether they may be held accountible 1000's, or 10,000's of thousands of deaths.

It is a drug that has been available since 1955, has a generic available, and is issued over-the counter in some countries.
Some doctors have said the side effects of Tylenol are worse.

That heart arrhythmia issue is very rare, and can be checked with an EKG.
Also, other meds can correct the HA if it arises.

HCQ is not, and has never been, a death sentence.
Used for Malaria, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Lupus, for several years.

I would be interested to find out about anyone taking it for something besides COVID.
Have they been test for COVID?
If positive, what were their symptoms like, mild, severe, etc., survived or not?
Have any of them been exposed and had negative test?

There has to be a pool of people out there.

It's a big world.

[Bigun]

It is simpler than that.

A cheap, effective treatment for COVID removes the one essential thing that lets the Left use the disease to control people: FEAR.

  This is also true!

[mountaineer]

 

[LegalAmerican]

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/facebook-censors-viral-video-of-doctors-capitol-hill-coronavirus-press-conference/


Keep the people in the dark!   

Facebook has removed a video posted by Breitbart News earlier today, which was the top-performing Facebook post in the world Monday afternoon, of a press conference in D.C. held by the group America’s Frontline Doctors and organized and sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots. The press conference featured Rep. Ralph Norman (R-SC) and frontline doctors sharing their views and opinions on coronavirus and the medical response to the pandemic. YouTube (which is owned by Google) and Twitter subsequently removed footage of the press conference as well.

The video accumulated over 17 million views during the eight hours it was hosted on Facebook, with over 185,000 concurrent viewers.= article truncated

[Hoodat]

07-29-2020 | 0:00 GMT

REGION	Recov:Death	Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)	16.193 ↑	1.503 ↓
United States	14.353 ↑	2.058 ↓

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Largest case rises occurred in TX, FL, CA, GA, & TN.

Today's^* new US Deaths compared to new deaths seven days ago:  +728.

^* 581 deaths were retroactively added to the total three days ago.  The 'Today' number above includes that retroactive addition.


14-day Recovery Deficit - 1,206,902.

Global Recoveries-to-Deaths ratio climbs above 16.

US recoveries continue to go uncounted.  The 14-day recovery deficit has increased by 200,000 in less than two weeks.

[mountaineer]

Facebook is lying – and people are dying
By Daniel Bobinski
July 29, 2020

In the 1930’s, a skillful propagandist named Paul Joseph Goebbels was able to exercise great control over the news in Germany. Using radio – a new media at the time – and film, Goebbels influenced the country’s opinions on antisemitism, churches, and even the arts. One of his most useful techniques was censoring any message that didn’t agree with the Nazi Party’s objectives.

In 2020, the new media platforms of Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are similarly influencing the world’s opinion on matters of antisemitism, the church, the arts, and even healthcare. And, like Goebbels, one of their most useful techniques is censoring any message that doesn’t agree with their common objectives.

If you’ve been tracking the news at all over the past five months, you know there’s a group of people downplaying every treatment that emerges for treating Covid-19, saying instead that the infection can be cured only with a vaccine. I personally refer to this group as the global medical establishment, but let’s call it GME for short. ...

You should also know that Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are giving GME organizations the final word in all things medical, and no second opinions are allowed. As proof of this, consider YouTube’s CEO Susan Wojcicki saying this past April that any content on YouTube that goes “against the World Heath Organization recommendations” will be removed.

WebMD says you should get a second opinion whenever a treatment is experimental or there is no established consensus on a treatment, but the tech giants aren’t letting you have that.  ...

Read entire article at UncoverDC

[mountaineer]

With regard to the Ohio board of pharmacy forbidding pharmacists from filling prescriptions for HCQ:

Jesse Kelly  @JesseKellyDC
Whatever you feel about coronavirus treatment/prevention, you’re an unthinking sheep if you’re not weirded out by the powerful entities determined to silence dissenting voices.
This is not medicine. This is not science. This has become a cult.
10:38 PM · Jul 29, 2020

Eric Chevlen  @echevlen
Replying to  @JesseKellyDC
I'm an Ohio physician.  I am not persuaded that hydroxychloroquine is beneficial in treating COVID.  Also, I disagree with the state limiting a doctor's prescribing it.  Of all the unproven (and often unsafe) off-label prescribing that occurs, why forbid this one?
11:25 PM · Jul 29, 2020

[Hoodat]

07-30-2020 | 0:00 GMT

REGION	Recov:Death	Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)	16.368 ↑	1.497 ↓
United States	14.593 ↑	2.035 ↓

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Largest case rises occurred in CA, FL, TX, GA, & AZ.

Today's^* new US Deaths compared to new deaths seven days ago:  +319.

^* 64 deaths were retroactively added to the total two days ago.  The "Today's new death" number above includes that retroactive addition.

14-day Recovery Deficit - 1,217,863.

Global Recoveries-to-Deaths ratio climbs above 16.

[mountaineer]

Ohio's goobernor has reversed the pharmacy board (or his own previous order, who knows):

Governor Mike DeWine @GovMikeDeWine

I agree with the statement from Dr. Steven Hahn, Commissioner of @US_FDA, that the decision about prescribing hydroxychloroquine to treat #COVID19 should be between a doctor and a patient.

Therefore, I am asking the @OhioRxBoard  to halt their new rule prohibiting the selling or dispensing of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for the treatment or prevention of COVID-19.

The Ohio Board of Pharmacy and @ohiomedboard  should revisit the issue, listen to the best medical science, and open the process up for comment and testimony from experts.

9:30 AM · Jul 30, 2020·

[aligncare]

Ohio's goobernor has reversed the pharmacy board (or his own previous order, who knows):

There aren’t many things that can disturb a seasoned physician, but taking away their right to apply their clinical judgment in the doctor patient relationship is at the very top of a short list. Put another way, it pisses them off.

[Hoodat]

07-31-2020 | 0:00 GMT

REGION	Recov:Death	Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)	16.601 ↑	1.488 ↓
United States	14.715 ↑	2.028 ↓

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Largest case rises occurred in FL, TX, CA, GA, & NC.

Today's new US Deaths compared to new deaths seven days ago:  +279.

14-day Recovery Deficit - 1,254,775.

[Idiot]

From my corner of the world....

https://ktxs.com/news/local/abilene-man-who-was-hospitalized-with-covid-19-claims-hydroxychloriquine-saved-his-life

Abilene man who was hospitalized with COVID-19 claims hydroxychloriquine saved his life

An Abilene man who was hospitalized after contracting COVID-19 told KTXS he believes hydroxychloroquine, a drug known for treating malaria, helped save his life.

In late March, 55-year-old Malcom Johnson said he felt the worst pain in his life.

"I couldn't lay down," said Johnson. "I started getting congestion, bad coughing a lot. My fever was weird because it would go up and down, up and down."

Johnson was sent to the emergency room at Hendrick Medical Center, where he said he was diagnosed with pneumonia and COVID-19.


"My breathing was real shallow," said Johnson. "I lost my sense of taste and smell.”

Johnson said doctors gave him several antibiotics, as well as hydroxychloroquine -- a drug known to treat malaria.

“When they gave it to me, was that day I begin to move around and do stuff and in talk, I felt better," said Johnson. "I mean, I was still sick. I knew I was sick. But my thinking was clear enough and everything.”

The FDA has warned against using the drug to treat coronavirus patients because it could have harmful side effects like heart rhythm or kidney problems.

A Brazilian study published by the New England Journal of Medicine argues hydroxychloroquine doesn't help fight the virus.

Johnson said he would take the drug again in a heartbeat.

"I didn't care," said Johnson. "They gave it to me and it worked. I'd take it again and I'd recommend it.”

Johnson has recovered from COVID-19, but his sense of smell is still weak.

“I realize it was really bad," said Johnson. "And I should have understood that from the beginning.”

While he was hospitalized, Johnson said he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes.

Johnson said his coronavirus diagnosis was a wake-up call to get his health in check.

[LegalAmerican]

From my corner of the world....

https://ktxs.com/news/local/abilene-man-who-was-hospitalized-with-covid-19-claims-hydroxychloriquine-saved-his-life

Abilene man who was hospitalized with COVID-19 claims hydroxychloriquine saved his life

An Abilene man who was hospitalized after contracting COVID-19 told KTXS he believes hydroxychloroquine, a drug known for treating malaria, helped save his life.

In late March, 55-year-old Malcom Johnson said he felt the worst pain in his life.

"I couldn't lay down," said Johnson. "I started getting congestion, bad coughing a lot. My fever was weird because it would go up and down, up and down."

Johnson was sent to the emergency room at Hendrick Medical Center, where he said he was diagnosed with pneumonia and COVID-19.


"My breathing was real shallow," said Johnson. "I lost my sense of taste and smell.”

Johnson said doctors gave him several antibiotics, as well as hydroxychloroquine -- a drug known to treat malaria.

“When they gave it to me, was that day I begin to move around and do stuff and in talk, I felt better," said Johnson. "I mean, I was still sick. I knew I was sick. But my thinking was clear enough and everything.”

The FDA has warned against using the drug to treat coronavirus patients because it could have harmful side effects like heart rhythm or kidney problems.

A Brazilian study published by the New England Journal of Medicine argues hydroxychloroquine doesn't help fight the virus.

Johnson said he would take the drug again in a heartbeat.

"I didn't care," said Johnson. "They gave it to me and it worked. I'd take it again and I'd recommend it.”

Johnson has recovered from COVID-19, but his sense of smell is still weak.

“I realize it was really bad," said Johnson. "And I should have understood that from the beginning.”

While he was hospitalized, Johnson said he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes.

Johnson said his coronavirus diagnosis was a wake-up call to get his health in check.

Right the article said it MAY, COULD, MAYBE...give heart issues & kidney....AS OPPOSED TO DYNG FOR SURE.  I WOULD USE ANY DRUG TO SAVE MY LIFE.  Most of us already do!  Blood pressure medicine, STATINS, blood thinners, aspirin. Some pain killers, SYNTHROID  FOR ME, and meds for fibromyalgia pain.  Central nervous system  in spine.
 
This reminds me of doctors not wanting to give TERMINALLY ILL CANCER patients any addictive drugs, for fear of ADDICTION!   They are dying, in pain!   How crazy is that? 

[bigheadfred]

The only thing to feral is ferality itself.

[bigheadfred]

We just lost another one to herion OD. Now only 7 dead this year of family and friends.

Not one from covid.

I have a terrible confession to make. I still like Joan Baez. But not as much as Linda Ronstadt.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

My two oldest g kids grandma is down with ALS. She is 52. My grandson is ten. He asked me to help him understand ALS. And why his grandma was going to die.

She has lost a lot of ground in the last 4 months.

The good news is she isn't dying from covid.

[Smokin Joe]

From my corner of the world....

https://ktxs.com/news/local/abilene-man-who-was-hospitalized-with-covid-19-claims-hydroxychloriquine-saved-his-life

Abilene man who was hospitalized with COVID-19 claims hydroxychloriquine saved his life

An Abilene man who was hospitalized after contracting COVID-19 told KTXS he believes hydroxychloroquine, a drug known for treating malaria, helped save his life.

In late March, 55-year-old Malcom Johnson said he felt the worst pain in his life.

"I couldn't lay down," said Johnson. "I started getting congestion, bad coughing a lot. My fever was weird because it would go up and down, up and down."

Johnson was sent to the emergency room at Hendrick Medical Center, where he said he was diagnosed with pneumonia and COVID-19.


"My breathing was real shallow," said Johnson. "I lost my sense of taste and smell.”

Johnson said doctors gave him several antibiotics, as well as hydroxychloroquine -- a drug known to treat malaria.

“When they gave it to me, was that day I begin to move around and do stuff and in talk, I felt better," said Johnson. "I mean, I was still sick. I knew I was sick. But my thinking was clear enough and everything.”

The FDA has warned against using the drug to treat coronavirus patients because it could have harmful side effects like heart rhythm or kidney problems.

A Brazilian study published by the New England Journal of Medicine argues hydroxychloroquine doesn't help fight the virus.

Johnson said he would take the drug again in a heartbeat.

"I didn't care," said Johnson. "They gave it to me and it worked. I'd take it again and I'd recommend it.”

Johnson has recovered from COVID-19, but his sense of smell is still weak.

“I realize it was really bad," said Johnson. "And I should have understood that from the beginning.”

While he was hospitalized, Johnson said he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes.

Johnson said his coronavirus diagnosis was a wake-up call to get his health in check.

THe study they are talking about (not the one nejm retracted) can be read here. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

I only scanned it, but saw no mention of zinc, which is critical to the regimen's efficacy.

[jmyrlefuller]

THe study they are talking about (not the one nejm retracted) can be read here. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

I only scanned it, but saw no mention of zinc, which is critical to the regimen's efficacy.

ZINC IS WORTHLESS, that's why no study mentions it. STOP IT.

[aligncare]

ZINC IS WORTHLESS, that's why no study mentions it. STOP IT.

Make your case.

[Idiot]

ZINC IS WORTHLESS, that's why no study mentions it. STOP IT.

Do a little research.  Look at a product called Zicam, which uses zinc to help shorten the common cold.  Zinc works....

[LegalAmerican]

Do a little research.  Look at a product called Zicam, which uses zinc to help shorten the common cold.  Zinc works....

Correct. I can guarantee, if Feller is dying from covid, he would ASK, BEG,  FOR ZINC...to survive!  Zinc helps medicines to work better by "opening up" the cells for absorption.  I am not a doctor, I just remember what I read. I have always used Zinc lozenges for sore throat.  Works like a charm. Then ZINC OXIDE creme.

[Neverdul]

Do a little research.  Look at a product called Zicam, which uses zinc to help shorten the common cold.  Zinc works....

Zicam is not only a “homeopathic medicine” which is to say, not a medicine at all, at best a placebo, it can also give you an outcome worse than a common cold.

https://www.rn.com/headlines-in-health/zicam-alert/

The Top Five Cold Remedies That Do Not Work

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/11/17/the-top-five-cold-remedies-that-do-not-work/#2a53b0ae4701

1. Zicam contains zinc as its active ingredient. There has been some evidence to suggest that taking zinc right at the onset of a cold might shorten its duration a little bit, from 7 days to 6. But as Dr. Terence Davidson from UC San Diego explained, if you look at the more rigorous studies, the effect vanishes. Zinc turns out to have some worrisome side effects, too. Zicam's nasal spray and gel versions were linked to a serious loss of the sense of smell (anosmia), which led the FDA to issue a warning letter in 2009. Zicam responded by withdrawing the product for a time, but their website now says "A clinical link between the Zicam® products and anosmia was not established." Strictly speaking, this is correct, but there have been published reports suggesting a link, such as this one from 2009.*

[aligncare]

Zicam is not only a “homeopathic medicine” which is to say, not a medicine at all, at best a placebo, it can also give you an outcome worse than a common cold.

https://www.rn.com/headlines-in-health/zicam-alert/

The Top Five Cold Remedies That Do Not Work

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/11/17/the-top-five-cold-remedies-that-do-not-work/#2a53b0ae4701

1. Zicam contains zinc as its active ingredient. There has been some evidence to suggest that taking zinc right at the onset of a cold might shorten its duration a little bit, from 7 days to 6. But as Dr. Terence Davidson from UC San Diego explained, if you look at the more rigorous studies, the effect vanishes. Zinc turns out to have some worrisome side effects, too. Zicam's nasal spray and gel versions were linked to a serious loss of the sense of smell (anosmia), which led the FDA to issue a warning letter in 2009. Zicam responded by withdrawing the product for a time, but their website now says "A clinical link between the Zicam® products and anosmia was not established." Strictly speaking, this is correct, but there have been published reports suggesting a link, such as this one from 2009.*

Every medication comes with an encyclopedia of exceptions, warnings and concerns. Individual reactions can always vary. Zinc supplements are no different. But, specific outcome measures can be established despite natural variances.

[Hoodat]

Virol Journal. 2005 Aug 22;2:69. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69.

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
Martin J Vincent  1 , Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah, Stuart T Nichol

Affiliations Expand
PMID: 16115318 PMCID: PMC1232869 DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69
 
Abstract
Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available.
Results: We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations.
 
Conclusion:
Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/

[mountaineer]

My M.D. friend - the same one who asserts the virus has run its course - was recommending Zicam back in March. 

[jmyrlefuller]

Do a little research.  Look at a product called Zicam, which uses zinc to help shorten the common cold.  Zinc works....

You mean Zicam, the homeopathic remedy? Homeopathy, the long-discredited science that operates on the premise that if you're ailing, take something that causes the same ailment and make it worse?

[Bigun]

[Cyber Liberty]

You mean Zicam, the homeopathic remedy? Homeopathy, the long-discredited science that operates on the premise that if you're ailing, take something that causes the same ailment and make it worse?

Are you suggesting that if a treatment is "Homeopathic," it's guaranteed to be ineffective?  That doesn't make any sense.

[bigheadfred]

Virol Journal. 2005 Aug 22;2:69. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69.

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
Martin J Vincent  1 , Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah, Stuart T Nichol

Affiliations Expand
PMID: 16115318 PMCID: PMC1232869 DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69
 
Abstract
Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available.
Results: We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations.
 
Conclusion:
Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/

Interesting. They also developed a vaccine. But shelved it when the spread stopped. They keep talking about potential vaccines for this current variation. I think, strictly my opinion, meaning I have no evidence, they already have a vaccine for covid 2.

[jmyrlefuller]

Are you suggesting that if a treatment is "Homeopathic," it's guaranteed to be ineffective?  That doesn't make any sense.

Yes, because homeopathy by its very nature makes whatever you're ailing with even worse by compounding your existing disease with something that causes even more of it.

Fortunately, most modern homeopathic "remedies" are so heavily diluted they are effectively placebos.

Homeopathy or homoeopathy is a pseudoscientific system of alternative medicine. It was created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann. Its practitioners, called homeopaths, believe that a substance that causes symptoms of a disease in healthy people would cure similar symptoms in sick people; this doctrine is called similia similibus curentur, or "like cures like".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

[DB]

Are you suggesting that if a treatment is "Homeopathic," it's guaranteed to be ineffective?  That doesn't make any sense.

"Homeopathy or homoeopathy is a pseudoscientific system of alternative medicine. It was created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann. Its practitioners, called homeopaths, believe that a substance that causes symptoms of a disease in healthy people would cure similar symptoms in sick people; this doctrine is called similia similibus curentur, or "like cures like". Homeopathic preparations are termed remedies and are made using homeopathic dilution. In this process, a chosen substance is repeatedly and thoroughly diluted. The final product is chemically indistinguishable from the diluent, which is usually either distilled water, ethanol or sugar; often, not even a single molecule of the original substance can be expected to remain in the product. Between the dilution iterations homeopaths practice hitting and/or violently shaking the product, and claim that it makes the diluent remember the original substance after its removal. Practitioners claim that such preparations, upon oral intake, can treat or cure disease."

https://www.bing.com/search?q=homeopathy+definition&qs=HS&sc=8-0&cvid=1F06F1A1148B4DC8874109C6CEE9BADF&FORM=CHRDEF&sp=1

[Cyber Liberty]

Just trying to understand how a substance being declared "Homeopathic" renders it useless in fighting a virus.  Zinc doesn't know it's a placebo.

[DB]

Just trying to understand how a substance being declared "Homeopathic" renders it useless in fighting a virus.  Zinc doesn't know it's a placebo.

Apparently something label homeopathic has virtually none of the substance it claims to be the active ingredient. So if you buy homeopathic zinc you get no actual zinc...

[Idiot]

You mean Zicam, the homeopathic remedy? Homeopathy, the long-discredited science that operates on the premise that if you're ailing, take something that causes the same ailment and make it worse?

Heaven forbid you get COVID19, but if you do will you just take nothing? 

[Fishrrman]

Newly-reported infections seem to have taken a big uptick here in CT in the past few days. They had previously been running low for several weeks.

Don't know what's going on.

Could be reporting error.
Just don't know yet.

[DB]

Newly-reported infections seem to have taken a big uptick here in CT in the past few days. They had previously been running low for several weeks.

Don't know what's going on.

Could be reporting error.
Just don't know yet.

That's good as long as people aren't dying from it.

[Smokin Joe]

ZINC IS WORTHLESS, that's why no study mentions it. STOP IT.

No study? Actually, many studies mention zinc in viral replication inhibition. But, quite possibly in an effort to reduce the efficacy of the regimen, zinc has been conspicuously absent from studies which show hydroxychloroquine to be less than effective, studies which also confined the study cohort to people who were in very advanced stages of the disease, often already in ICU and on ventilators and whose prognosis was grim, regardless.

For instance: 
Zn(2+) inhibits coronavirus and arterivirus RNA polymerase activity in vitro and zinc ionophores block the replication of these viruses in cell culture (SARS-CoV is specifically mentioned).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21079686/


If you do a search of Zinc as an antiviral you will find a lot of journal mentions of Zinc as an antiviral, even with this Coronavirus. It is useless without an ionophore, which may include Hydroxychloroquine, Quercentin, or even flavonoids. It turns out apples are high in Quercentin, so maybe there is something to the old saw about "an apple a day..."

In addition to acting as a Zinc ionophore, hydroxychloroquine slightly modifies the ACE 2 receptor and reduces the ability of the virus to enter the cell by that mechanism and subtle pH (more basic--less acidic) changes in the cell. These mechanisms work in concert to slow the viral replication to the degree that the immune system can defeat the virus before the virus defeats the patient.

Chloroquine is more dangerous to use than hydroxychloroquine, and that is the reason hydroxychloroquine is used instead. Hydroxychloroquine has a decades long history of being prescribed as an antimalarial and in instances of people with Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis, both of which are immune system disorders, in which the immune system is attacking the body itself. I personally know people who have taken hydroxychloroquine for years without ill effect.

For a really nice explanation of the regimen (that You Tube missed), try here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9YFXo84lCk

Keep in mind that this is a Global pandemic, and not all countries are tied up in the same politics as the US is in this election cycle. The drug, and the disease have been politicized to the degree that likely tens of thousands have unnecessarily died because of politics, starting with nursing home and extended care patients in New York and continuing because of the tremendous misinformation being spread about possible pharmacologies to fight the disease. What should have been simply about science has been polluted with political enmities and the patients suffer as a result.

[Smokin Joe]

Just trying to understand how a substance being declared "Homeopathic" renders it useless in fighting a virus.  Zinc doesn't know it's a placebo.

Zicam isn't homeopathic just because it is sold over the counter.

To fit the description of a homeopathic remedy it would have to claim to contain some dilution of the virus that caused your cold. (Not only difficult, but considering the common cold is caused by a number of Coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses, it'd be really hard to start with the right mix of viruses to dilute to make sure your particular cold virus was in there , or not in there, whichever you prefer.)  It doesn't claim that at all.

So, calling an OTC remedy a homeopathic when even it doesn't claim to be is a misapplication of the term "homeopathic", perhaps done to discredit the product. If it did not work for at least some people, it would not be on the market long.

Keep in mind, that vaccines commonly contain the bug you are vaccinating against, in some dilute and severely damaged form so it won't just be a lethal injection, so the body can build antibodies against the disease you are being vaccinated against--the whole purpose of the vaccine. Does that make vaccines homeopathic, too?

.

[DB]

Zicam isn't homeopathic just because it is sold over the counter.

To fit the description of a homeopathic remedy it would have to claim to contain some dilution of the virus that caused your cold. (Not only difficult, but considering the common cold is caused by a number of Coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses, it'd be really hard to start with the right mix of viruses to dilute to make sure your particular cold virus was in there , or not in there, whichever you prefer.)  It doesn't claim that at all.

So, calling an OTC remedy a homeopathic when even it doesn't claim to be is a misapplication of the term "homeopathic", perhaps done to discredit the product. If it did not work for at least some people, it would not be on the market long.

Keep in mind, that vaccines commonly contain the bug you are vaccinating against, in some dilute and severely damaged form so it won't just be a lethal injection, so the body can build antibodies against the disease you are being vaccinated against--the whole purpose of the vaccine. Does that make vaccines homeopathic, too?

.

According to the definition of "homeopathy" above in the Bing search the homeopathic agent only has to cause the symptoms of whatever the illness is. Based on that it sounds like it doesn't have to be the actual agent that made someone sick in the first place. It only has to produce similar symptoms. And then the dilution is to the point it may not even contain a single molecule of the agent that was started with. That the dilution has a "memory of it" and that is what cures you...

So in other words it is a belief system and nothing to do with science...

[Smokin Joe]

According to the definition of "homeopathy" above in the Bing search the homeopathic agent only has to cause the symptoms of whatever the illness is. Based on that it sounds like it doesn't have to be the actual agent that made someone sick in the first place. It only has to produce similar symptoms. And then the dilution is to the point it may not even contain a single molecule of the agent that was started with. That the dilution has a "memory of it" and that is what cures you...

So in other words it is a belief system and nothing to do with science...

In the meantime, zinc has been shown to be beneficial, even as a cold remedy. Keep in mind, that all people vary, viruses vary, and nothing is 100%.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/zinc-could-help-diminish-extent-of-covid-19/

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176

[Cyber Liberty]

Zicam isn't homeopathic just because it is sold over the counter.

To fit the description of a homeopathic remedy it would have to claim to contain some dilution of the virus that caused your cold. (Not only difficult, but considering the common cold is caused by a number of Coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses, it'd be really hard to start with the right mix of viruses to dilute to make sure your particular cold virus was in there , or not in there, whichever you prefer.)  It doesn't claim that at all.

So, calling an OTC remedy a homeopathic when even it doesn't claim to be is a misapplication of the term "homeopathic", perhaps done to discredit the product. If it did not work for at least some people, it would not be on the market long.

Keep in mind, that vaccines commonly contain the bug you are vaccinating against, in some dilute and severely damaged form so it won't just be a lethal injection, so the body can build antibodies against the disease you are being vaccinated against--the whole purpose of the vaccine. Does that make vaccines homeopathic, too?

.

@Smokin Joe  I appreciate your weighing in.  I remember you had a really good technical description of why zinc is important to the treatment.  I don't mess with Zicam, it never did me any good.

[bigheadfred]

Since most of the big chain stores instituted mandatory masks there has been a huge drop in customers.

There are enough other local businesses that may have higher prices, but I would rather give them my dollars than submit to any thing "mandatory".

[DB]

In the meantime, zinc has been shown to be beneficial, even as a cold remedy. Keep in mind, that all people vary, viruses vary, and nothing is 100%.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/zinc-could-help-diminish-extent-of-covid-19/

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176

I'm not arguing. I never really knew what homeopathic meant until I looked it up today... I was a little shocked at what I found...

[DB]

@Smokin Joe  I appreciate your weighing in.  I remember you had a really good technical description of why zinc is important to the treatment.  I don't mess with Zicam, it never did me any good.

I don't remember if Zicam was the first zinc product to come out as a cold treatment but I remember when I tried zinc for a cold it really messed up my sense of taste that lasted days so I didn't take it anymore and don't recommend others take it for that reason.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe  I appreciate your weighing in.  I remember you had a really good technical description of why zinc is important to the treatment.  I don't mess with Zicam, it never did me any good.

I don't use Zicam, but then, I don't catch colds.

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't use Zicam, but then, I don't catch colds.

Dittos.  For some strange reason, colds are not common in the Mojave Desert.  (I changed Deserts.  Used to be the Sonoran.)

[Bigun]

I don't use Zicam, but then, I don't catch colds.

I have used Zicam and believe it did exactly what the label claims it will do (lessen the length and severity of the cold).

I rarely get a cold so I don't use it often but it is in our medicine cabinet.