Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2  (Read 197870 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1300 on: April 17, 2020, 11:23:46 am »
And I remember as a kid I was like 16, I remember they told me – warn me they said ‘hey you got to be careful with that LSD on the count of you can get a flashback. 10 years could go by; 20 years, 30 years and a flashback will happen, so I thought ‘hey, that seems like a good deal.’ You tell me, I buy a drug for $5, I eat it, I get high and then 20 years later I get high again.
                               
                                                                                  -Norm Macdonald


@Once-Ler

That was my exact thinking as well.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Idiot

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1301 on: April 17, 2020, 11:24:58 am »
@musiclady

HEY! Cut the dictators that own China some slack! After all,they already own China and everyone and everything in China,so they have nothing to spend the trillions on that they pull in from America,thanks primarily to the Bush and the Clinton Crime Families.

Can you imagine the horrors of having trillions in cash,and nothing to buy with it?

Have you no mercy? Where is your humanity? </S>
You speak the truth....  I've been having it out with a sibling about China.  They seem to think that China can do no wrong.  They entertain Chinese "students" who come into our country to study at a well known university.  They study anything from business to engineering.  The group of them live together with a "minder", who is a loyal communist party person, to make sure they don't stray.  I find the entire setup disgusting.  Students from the USA should have these slots and not foreigners...especially Chinese.  And of course I get this from my sibling.....the virus didn't come from the Wuhan lab, it was just an accident in the food market....and even if it did...there is no way to prove it.  They don't call Austin weird for nothing.....lol.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1302 on: April 17, 2020, 11:35:02 am »
And of course I get this from my sibling.....the virus didn't come from the Wuhan lab, it was just an accident in the food market....and even if it did...there is no way to prove it.

This is the thing about liberal 'reasoning' [sic] that bugs the heck out of me.  What this person is saying is that truth doesn't matter.  It's like having all their premises suspended in the air connected together with springs.  When you disprove (i.e. remove) a premise, the force of the springs readjusts the positions of the remaining premises until it reaches a new equilibrium.  At no point is this person's belief changed.  Only their reasoning [sic] for it.

In the example above, let's say there is a way to prove, and that it was proved the virus came from the Wuhan lab.  The springs would adjust, new premises would be invented, and the new argument would be "Yes, it came from the Wuhan lab.  But that's not China's fault."
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online mountaineer

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1303 on: April 17, 2020, 11:37:10 am »
From a University of Maryland doctor via Twitter:
Quote
Faheem Younus, MD  @FaheemYounus
1h

We are fighting COVID
~30 patients received SOME of the following experimental treatments. 0 deaths!
Hydroxychloroquine
Lovenox - prevent clots
Remdesivir - treat PNA
Tocilizumab - treat cytokine storm
HFNC/proning - prevent ventilation
Plasma

Possibilities attached


9:47 AM · Apr 17, 2020
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
Roger Kimball, in a talk at Hillsdale College, 1/29/25

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1304 on: April 17, 2020, 11:39:02 am »
Makes a guy wonder what would happen if all the dictators there got sick and died....

How would the Chinese react to being free?

@Smokin Joe

Total chaos. The Chinese,in all the history of China,have NEVER been free. They have always been subjects.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1305 on: April 17, 2020, 11:42:14 am »
@Smokin Joe

Total chaos. The Chinese,in all the history of China,have NEVER been free. They have always been subjects.
True, I guess. Even under Chiang, it was pretty much a warlord and the peasants...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1306 on: April 17, 2020, 11:47:50 am »
You speak the truth....  I've been having it out with a sibling about China.  They seem to think that China can do no wrong.  They entertain Chinese "students" who come into our country to study at a well known university.  They study anything from business to engineering.  The group of them live together with a "minder", who is a loyal communist party person, to make sure they don't stray.  I find the entire setup disgusting.  Students from the USA should have these slots and not foreigners...especially Chinese.  And of course I get this from my sibling.....the virus didn't come from the Wuhan lab, it was just an accident in the food market....and even if it did...there is no way to prove it.  They don't call Austin weird for nothing.....lol.

@mrpotatohead

Those "students" are in reality Officers in the Chinese "Peoples Liberation Army",and their assignment is to "mine" US industries and schools for trade secrets,blueprints,formulas,etc,etc,etc,that they can steal and take back to China for the Chinese to use to create their own production for their military to use,or to make cheap Chinese duplicates to flood the American market with to put Americans out of work.

The "group leader" is actually the senior officer,and his job is to monitor and command the junior officers under his command.

Make no mistake about it,this is nothing less than economic warfare.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 11:48:36 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1307 on: April 17, 2020, 11:56:51 am »
@mrpotatohead

Those "students" are in reality Officers in the Chinese "Peoples Liberation Army",and their assignment is to "mine" US industries and schools for trade secrets,blueprints,formulas,etc,etc,etc,that they can steal and take back to China for the Chinese to use to create their own production for their military to use,or to make cheap Chinese duplicates to flood the American market with to put Americans out of work.

The "group leader" is actually the senior officer,and his job is to monitor and command the junior officers under his command.

Make no mistake about it,this is nothing less than economic warfare.

@sneakypete , here's a blast from the past for you:

EMPLOYEE'S BODY IS FOUND IN COMMERCE DEPT. OFFICE

Barbara Wise worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang.  Huang of course was the Chicom agent who worked his way into the Commerce Dept, and then copied and faxed massive quantities of classified documents from the US Patent Office to the Chicoms.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1308 on: April 17, 2020, 12:00:45 pm »
@sneakypete , here's a blast from the past for you:

EMPLOYEE'S BODY IS FOUND IN COMMERCE DEPT. OFFICE

Barbara Wise worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang.  Huang of course was the Chicom agent who worked his way into the Commerce Dept, and then copied and faxed massive quantities of classified documents from the US Patent Office to the Chicoms.

@Hoodat

I saw this personally when I was a letter carrier with the USPS. The Chinese students in this country were continually mailing back huge packages with manuals and blueprints back home to China. I notified the Postal Inspectors,and they told me it was legal,and there was nothing they could do about it.

Industrial espionage is "legal". Who knew?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1309 on: April 17, 2020, 12:29:09 pm »
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/not-like-the-flu-not-like-car-crashes-not-like

ow deadly is Covid-19 compared to seasonal flu, past pandemics, or car crashes?

To offer context, we have produced two charts showing coronavirus deaths along with deaths from other common causes in the past to which the disease has recently been compared. One chart shows deaths for the United States, the other for New York, the state hardest hit.

Note that the data sets begin at different points in the year (as marked on the left). Also note that the figures shown here are for new deaths each week, not for cumulative deaths.



more at link

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1310 on: April 17, 2020, 12:39:15 pm »
@sneakypete , here's a blast from the past for you:

EMPLOYEE'S BODY IS FOUND IN COMMERCE DEPT. OFFICE

Barbara Wise worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang.  Huang of course was the Chicom agent who worked his way into the Commerce Dept, and then copied and faxed massive quantities of classified documents from the US Patent Office to the Chicoms.
Was that before or after Ron Brown's plane crashed on a sunny day (and he had that .45 caliber hole in his head).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1311 on: April 17, 2020, 12:45:12 pm »
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/not-like-the-flu-not-like-car-crashes-not-like

ow deadly is Covid-19 compared to seasonal flu, past pandemics, or car crashes?

To offer context, we have produced two charts showing coronavirus deaths along with deaths from other common causes in the past to which the disease has recently been compared. One chart shows deaths for the United States, the other for New York, the state hardest hit.

Note that the data sets begin at different points in the year (as marked on the left). Also note that the figures shown here are for new deaths each week, not for cumulative deaths.



more at link
Oh look! The virus has it's very own hockey stick!

Now, measure the area under the curve.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1312 on: April 17, 2020, 01:09:45 pm »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report

White House was reportedly not interested in the intel, but it was passed onto NATO, IDF; when it reached Israel’s Health Ministry, ‘nothing was done’

Quote
US intelligence agencies alerted Israel to the coronavirus outbreak in China already in November, Israeli television reported Thursday.

According to Channel 12 news, the US intelligence community became aware of the emerging disease in Wuhan in the second week of that month and drew up a classified document.

Information on the disease outbreak was not in the public domain at that stage — and was known only apparently to the Chinese government.

US intelligence informed the Trump administration, “which did not deem it of interest,” but the report said the Americans also decided to update two allies with the classified document: NATO and Israel, specifically the IDF.

The network said Israeli military officials later in November discussed the possibility of the spread of the virus to the region and how it would affect Israel and neighboring countries.

The intelligence also reached Israel’s decision makers and the Health Ministry, where “nothing was done,” according to the report.

more at link

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1313 on: April 17, 2020, 01:50:10 pm »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report

White House was reportedly not interested in the intel, but it was passed onto NATO, IDF; when it reached Israel’s Health Ministry, ‘nothing was done’

more at link
I wonder if that's the same US intelligence that spent all that time ginning up stuff to feed the FBI (even though they don't do domestic work) to try to impeach the President.

What did who know and when did they know it, and why was it not brought to the POTUS' attention by the Intel agencies and the CDC< and all the people whose job it is to make damned sure the message gets through?

Besides, if it was in November, then the whole "wet market" fairy tale falls flat on it's keester.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1314 on: April 17, 2020, 02:02:33 pm »
Oh look! The virus has it's very own hockey stick!

Now, measure the area under the curve.

I’d like to know the criteria used to attribute Corona deaths to the actual virus. We know different reporting bodies have gotten very creative.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 02:03:31 pm by skeeter »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1315 on: April 17, 2020, 03:40:28 pm »
I wonder if that's the same US intelligence that spent all that time ginning up stuff to feed the FBI (even though they don't do domestic work) to try to impeach the President.

What did who know and when did they know it, and why was it not brought to the POTUS' attention by the Intel agencies and the CDC< and all the people whose job it is to make damned sure the message gets through?

I think someone should be asking Peter Navarro this.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1316 on: April 17, 2020, 03:52:40 pm »
Written by Bill O'Reilly
That simple thoughtful gesture saved me a lot of reading.  Thank you.

Offline Mod2

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1317 on: April 17, 2020, 03:57:59 pm »
@mrpotatohead   Can you provide a link to the O'Reilly piece and please excerpt it? Thanks.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1318 on: April 17, 2020, 03:59:33 pm »
Quote
Written by: Bill O'Reilly

He's as right as rain!  Thanks for posting @mrpotatohead.  Do you by chance have a link?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1319 on: April 17, 2020, 04:07:14 pm »
Here's a link.  Can't find the original.  May be fake.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theerant/bill-o-reilly-on-wuhan-virus-t104979.html
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 04:09:29 pm by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline jafo2010

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1320 on: April 17, 2020, 04:08:09 pm »
I'm not sure Trump will do anything to China.  He keeps talking about how great China is, which is NOT what I would be saying right now.

It does not matter if the release of the virus from the lab in Wuhan was intentional or unintentional, China is responsible.  With that said, they should pay for the lion's share of cost for this outbreak.

I would like to see the end of trade with China.  I do not mind paying more for products, and the fact is, I have been boycotting China products froM the day it was discovered they were putting poison in their baby formula.  Notably, dog products are largely from China and India, but I look for USA only.  I will not subject my dog to eating anything from those two countries.  And the same for other products, and I have noticed Made in the USA does not mean COST MORE.  Most USA products are comparable and at times cheaper.

SO, I BUY PRODUCTS MADE IN THE USA FIRST, AND THEN MADE ANYWHERE ELSE BUT CHINA SECOND.  BEEN DOING THAT FOR YEARS!!!   F*&^ CHINA!!!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 04:09:12 pm by jafo2010 »

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1321 on: April 17, 2020, 04:10:53 pm »
This is what O'Reilly wrote on April 12 from his website:




There is a wall of doom being erected in America.  The media is building it by sensationalizing coverage of the pandemic, instead of providing facts and honest context to people who desperately need it.
 
Here are some recent headlines found on the net.

    - Economic Devastation Looms

    - Record Bankruptcies Predicted

    - Pandemic Will Cleve Nation in Two

    - Broke Americans Consider Selling Blood

    - Czech Nudists Told to Wear Face Masks

Only the last story was based on a factual occurrence.  The others used speculative opinion throughout the articles.
 
While it is certainly true that the press has always used flaming leads, this time there is a dark reason to do it.  The deadly virus spreads quickly and without warning.  That creates mass fear.  And fear creates opportunity.
 
There are Americans, including some media chieftains, who believe four more years of President Trump is actually worse for the country than the contagion.  So while the virus is amongst us, it should be used to damage the President as much as possible.
 
Therefore, doom is a much better context than hope.  Any positive development is scrutinized while negative occurrences are quickly gathered and spotlighted.  You cannot build a wall of doom upon a foundation of better times ahead.
 
The primary construction crew of the horror wall is the usual far-left apparatus that also sees a chance to damage the capitalist system. Thus, a spate of reports on how much Americans will suffer economically even after the virus abates.
 
We saw this when Bernie Sanders demanded the federal government pay every workers full salary throughout the pandemic. That, of course, would collapse the US dollar as the Treasury Department would have to print trillions in paper currency to meet the obligation.
 
But that’s what Sanders, George Soros, and elements at The New York Times, want - economic and societal chaos.  So a new “world order” can be built based on Marxist redistribution principles.
 
With that in play, let’s welcome in the Thunder Doom spectacle.  It is here for all to see.  And please note exactly who is putting bricks in that wall.
 
They are not looking out for you.

https://www.billoreilly.com/b/The-Strategy/431809981594190092.html
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1322 on: April 17, 2020, 04:19:00 pm »
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/493359-matterhorn-in-swiss-alps-lit-up-with-american-flag-in-show-of



Quote
The famous Matterhorn mountain in the Swiss Alps was illuminated with an American flag this week in a show of solidarity for the U.S. during the coronavirus pandemic.

Light artist Gerry Hoffstetter projected the flag onto the 14,692 foot peak on Thursday as part of a nightly series supporting those combating COVID-19.

"Our thoughts are with all American people at this unprecedented time. We look forward to meeting again at the foot of the Matterhorn, we are all in this together," the tourism organization Zermatt Matterhorn wrote on its Facebook page.

more at link

Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online mountaineer

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1324 on: April 17, 2020, 04:21:16 pm »
Quote
"Our thoughts are with all American people at this unprecedented time. We look forward to meeting again at the foot of the Matterhorn, we are all in this together," the tourism organization Zermatt Matterhorn wrote on its Facebook page.
That's nice. I'm hoping to visit the Matterhorn next year and will hoist a Cardinal lager in their honor.
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
Roger Kimball, in a talk at Hillsdale College, 1/29/25

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1325 on: April 17, 2020, 04:21:50 pm »
Cool beans.

This makes it ours now, I think.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1326 on: April 17, 2020, 04:53:45 pm »
I wonder if that's the same US intelligence that spent all that time ginning up stuff to feed the FBI (even though they don't do domestic work) to try to impeach the President.

What did who know and when did they know it, and why was it not brought to the POTUS' attention by the Intel agencies and the CDC< and all the people whose job it is to make damned sure the message gets through?

Besides, if it was in November, then the whole "wet market" fairy tale falls flat on it's keester.
At the indicated timeframes, they were between Spygate, Meuller report, Russia-gate, Ukraine-gate, Impeachment.

Adam Shitt, Nan from shitty San Fran, Shumer,  and Jerold thin-man Nadler, couldn't have possibly been interested in the safety of America.

LTC Vindman was still considering his offer to head Unraine's military forces. Dr. Hill, was waiting instructions from Russia, how to proceed next.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1327 on: April 17, 2020, 05:34:44 pm »
04-17-2020 | 21:04 GMT

REGIONRecov:Death     Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)  3.857 ↑  3.364 ↓
United States  1.605 ↓ 11.822 ↑
China 16.827 ↓  1.061 ↑

US 14-day Recovery Deficit - 179,009
Recovery Rate after 14 days - 21.5 %  ↓
Recovery Rate after 21 days - 63.0 %  ↓

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Big jump in China fatalities, proving their numbers cannot be trusted.  Recoveries in US still going unreported.  37% of survivors infected 3 weeks ago still not listed as 'recovered'.  The political stakes are growing.  Lines are being drawn.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1328 on: April 17, 2020, 07:29:40 pm »
I'm not sure Trump will do anything to China.  He keeps talking about how great China is, which is NOT what I would be saying right now.

It does not matter if the release of the virus from the lab in Wuhan was intentional or unintentional, China is responsible.  With that said, they should pay for the lion's share of cost for this outbreak.

I would like to see the end of trade with China.  I do not mind paying more for products, and the fact is, I have been boycotting China products froM the day it was discovered they were putting poison in their baby formula.  Notably, dog products are largely from China and India, but I look for USA only.  I will not subject my dog to eating anything from those two countries.  And the same for other products, and I have noticed Made in the USA does not mean COST MORE.  Most USA products are comparable and at times cheaper.

SO, I BUY PRODUCTS MADE IN THE USA FIRST, AND THEN MADE ANYWHERE ELSE BUT CHINA SECOND.  BEEN DOING THAT FOR YEARS!!!   F*&^ CHINA!!!

Oh, the Bard...(hopefully)

Mark Antony at the Forum...Act 3, Scene 2, Julius Caesar
Quote
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest--
For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men--
Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.
Later in the scene...
Quote
O masters, if I were disposed to stir
Your hearts and minds to mutiny and rage,
I should do Brutus wrong, and Cassius wrong,
Who, you all know, are honourable men:
I will not do them wrong; I rather choose
To wrong the dead, to wrong myself and you,
Than I will wrong such honourable men.

and then...

Quote
Will you be patient? will you stay awhile?
I have o'ershot myself to tell you of it:
I fear I wrong the honourable men
Whose daggers have stabb'd Caesar; I do fear it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1329 on: April 17, 2020, 07:31:07 pm »
At the indicated timeframes, they were between Spygate, Meuller report, Russia-gate, Ukraine-gate, Impeachment.

Adam Shitt, Nan from shitty San Fran, Shumer,  and Jerold thin-man Nadler, couldn't have possibly been interested in the safety of America.

LTC Vindman was still considering his offer to head Unraine's military forces. Dr. Hill, was waiting instructions from Russia, how to proceed next.
Exactly!
They were more focused on the coup attempt than the safety of the United States.
Not just Dereliction of Duty, but giving aid and comfort ...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1330 on: April 17, 2020, 11:35:16 pm »

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1331 on: April 17, 2020, 11:54:24 pm »
"Recovery from coronavirus may not confer immunity, warn experts"

https://www.france24.com/en/20200417-recovery-from-coronavirus-may-not-confer-immunity-warn-experts

This is very interesting. This is strictly my opinion. Reading the article, they are saying the virus doesn't mutate to reinfect. They are saying the virus has somehow decided to form a different approach than other illnesses. It has armed itself with the ability to strike, in a military way, through a number of different options. Natural viruses don't do that. Not within a short time frame. Thanks for the post, @DB.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1332 on: April 18, 2020, 12:01:59 am »
This is very interesting. This is strictly my opinion. Reading the article, they are saying the virus doesn't mutate to reinfect. They are saying the virus has somehow decided to form a different approach than other illnesses. It has armed itself with the ability to strike, in a military way, through a number of different options. Natural viruses don't do that. Not within a short time frame. Thanks for the post, @DB.
Yep, They said:
Quote
Another pre-publication study that looked at 175 recovered patients in Shanghai showed different concentrations of protective antibodies 10 to 15 days after the onset of symptoms.

"But whether that antibody response actually means immunity is a separate question," commented Maria Van Kerhove, Technical Lead of the WHO Emergencies Programme.

"That's something we really need to better understand -- what does that antibody response look like in terms of immunity."

Indeed, a host of questions remain.

"We are at the stage of asking whether someone who has overcome COVID-19 is really that protected," said Jean-Francois Delfraissy, president of France's official science advisory board.

...but they also said this:
Quote
"The only real solution for now is a vaccine," Archie Clements, a professor at Curtin University in Perth Australia, told AFP.

How do vaccines work? You produce antibodies...

Someone is giving us a smoke enema.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1333 on: April 18, 2020, 12:56:36 am »
Yep, They said:
...but they also said this:
How do vaccines work? You produce antibodies...

Someone is giving us a smoke enema.

I am not a vaccine expert. In my small understanding a vaccine targets a specfic feature of the disease. the polio vaccine. The smallpox vaccine, etc.

How can "they" say that a vaccine is the only solution when they can't target the specific trait?

I am not an antivaxxer. I have spent time overseas in third word shitholes. And apparently didn't die from the specific diseases or vaccinations recommended. Not to mention the vaccines I had as a kid here. I have had an initial and two followups vaccinations for RABIES. Prolly need another shot the way I've been foaming at the mouth here.

I have a high interest in defeating treatable diseases. My Hep C. I admit it. I gave it up. I was so sick when I got to the point of trying an opioid for the pain and that didn't help I was done. A part of that was I felt shame for letting myself and my family down. My wife got me by the balls, beat me about the face and ears, and told me I wasn't done. She said  I saved her because she married a MAN. And she could save me because she understood that she had the strength to be a WOMAN.

That might sound weird. Maybe I phrased it poorly.

I joined this forum in search of a friend I wanted to say goodbye to. Lost from TOS. I found them FWIW, but here, here, I found somethng even better than a friend. I found a family.

This is going to sound even weirder. There was no need for me to continue my robot 2 thread. All of you all ya'll done did it tomorrow.

Yeah. That smoke enema.Tomorrow. Either we are clear of this shit. Or we are clear on this shit.

 
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1334 on: April 18, 2020, 01:52:33 am »


This guy was at a rona rally today.  Looks fake to me.  Why is he wearing a mask?

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1335 on: April 18, 2020, 01:55:01 am »
Yep, They said:
...but they also said this:
How do vaccines work? You produce antibodies...

Someone is giving us a smoke enema.

I noticed that too. It antibodies only last a few years then perhaps they are implying that you can get vaccinated every so many years keeping your immunity up. Essentially a booster shot. If that could be done world wide for a few years the virus ought to be eradicated.

Another big question is if you can get it again do your antibodies from a previous go around significantly lessen the symptoms the next time even after a long period of time? If it were far less severe then getting it again isn't as big a deal. If that isn't the case, that's pretty concerning.

Strange how this virus seems to be so different than how corona type viruses normally behave...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 01:59:51 am by DB »

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1336 on: April 18, 2020, 01:55:59 am »
I am not a vaccine expert. In my small understanding a vaccine targets a specfic feature of the disease. the polio vaccine. The smallpox vaccine, etc.

How can "they" say that a vaccine is the only solution when they can't target the specific trait?

I am not an antivaxxer. I have spent time overseas in third word shitholes. And apparently didn't die from the specific diseases or vaccinations recommended. Not to mention the vaccines I had as a kid here. I have had an initial and two followups vaccinations for RABIES. Prolly need another shot the way I've been foaming at the mouth here.

I have a high interest in defeating treatable diseases. My Hep C. I admit it. I gave it up. I was so sick when I got to the point of trying an opioid for the pain and that didn't help I was done. A part of that was I felt shame for letting myself and my family down. My wife got me by the balls, beat me about the face and ears, and told me I wasn't done. She said  I saved her because she married a MAN. And she could save me because she understood that she had the strength to be a WOMAN.

That might sound weird. Maybe I phrased it poorly.

I joined this forum in search of a friend I wanted to say goodbye to. Lost from TOS. I found them FWIW, but here, here, I found somethng even better than a friend. I found a family.

This is going to sound even weirder. There was no need for me to continue my robot 2 thread. All of you all ya'll done did it tomorrow.

Yeah. That smoke enema.Tomorrow. Either we are clear of this shit. Or we are clear on this shit.
I'm not an expert either, Fred.  But I do know vaccines cause the body to develop antibodies against a specific disease so the body can stop it before it gets started..
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1337 on: April 18, 2020, 02:27:09 am »

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1338 on: April 18, 2020, 03:27:02 am »
They are closing so many businesses down that it forces people to shop in the ones that are open. More people together stuck in a larger line for an extended period of time. Stores that would be glad to have a customer forced to close in favor of stores that are forced to limit the number of customers, and cashiers, that on a daily basis were short wait stores. Stupid.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1339 on: April 18, 2020, 08:43:22 am »


This guy was at a rona rally today.  Looks fake to me.  Why is he wearing a mask?

Left wing staged fake photo, kind of like the "Moran" one. 
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1340 on: April 18, 2020, 09:35:46 am »
It is a given that the Chinese are evil,soulless bastards,so has anyone else considered the possibility that this virus is a result of the Chinese trying to create a vaccine they can use for their own troops before they set loose a deadlier virus on the world?

Since they may be among the least creative  people in the world,it backfired on them and their "vacinnation" got out of the lab and morphed into a virus,itself?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1341 on: April 18, 2020, 09:41:57 am »
@Smokin Joe  @bigheadfred

I've had two flu shots in my life taken approx 40 years apart both nearly killed me so there will not be a third and neither will I take one for this virus.

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1342 on: April 18, 2020, 09:43:44 am »
Mr. M told me he heard a statistic repeated on the news yesterday that 70% of the virus deaths have been of overweight people.
Quote
Regular exercise can help protect from severe coronavirus complication
By Vincent Barone
April 17, 2020 | 11:38pm

When it comes to fighting the coronavirus, exercise is preventative medicine, according to one new study.

Regular cardiovascular workouts may help protect future coronavirus patients from developing a severe complication and major cause of death known as acute respiratory distress syndrome, according to research from Zhen Yan of the University of Virginia School of Medicine.

Yan, the director of the Center for Skeletal Muscle Research at UVA’s Robert M. Berne Cardiovascular Research Center, recommends 30 minutes of cardiovascular training every day to help ward off the respiratory disease. ...
More at NY Post
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1343 on: April 18, 2020, 09:55:01 am »
Mr. M told me he heard a statistic repeated on the news yesterday that 70% of the virus deaths have been of overweight people.More at NY Post

Left unremarked, these are people who consider 70% of the total population is "obese."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1344 on: April 18, 2020, 09:55:19 am »
@Smokin Joe  @bigheadfred

I've had two flu shots in my life taken approx 40 years apart both nearly killed me so there will not be a third and neither will I take one for this virus.
I have never had a flu shot.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1345 on: April 18, 2020, 09:58:17 am »
I have a high interest in defeating treatable diseases. My Hep C. I admit it. I gave it up. I was so sick when I got to the point of trying an opioid for the pain and that didn't help I was done. A part of that was I felt shame for letting myself and my family down. My wife got me by the balls, beat me about the face and ears, and told me I wasn't done. She said  I saved her because she married a MAN. And she could save me because she understood that she had the strength to be a WOMAN.

That might sound weird. Maybe I phrased it poorly.

Doesn't sound weird to me, at all.  I've "spoken" with her on Bookface, a fantastic lady, for which you are a lucky man...no...a wealthy man.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1346 on: April 18, 2020, 10:01:49 am »
I have never had a flu shot.
I haven't, either, nor the other recommended vaccinations (pneumonia, shingles). No vaccination at all, in fact, since the last measles shot as a child, which gave me a mild case. In all my decades of life without a flu shot, I've actually had the flu fewer than three times.
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1348 on: April 18, 2020, 11:42:54 am »
I haven't, either, nor the other recommended vaccinations (pneumonia, shingles). No vaccination at all, in fact, since the last measles shot as a child, which gave me a mild case. In all my decades of life without a flu shot, I've actually had the flu fewer than three times.
I take the flu shot every year and have never had a bad reaction to the shot.  A company I do some work for gave all of their employees flu shots and the very next week 3/4's them had the flu.  The Dr. giving the shot said it was impossible...but...there it happened.  I plan on getting a pneumonia shot when all of this virus crap goes away.  I have a good friend that took 2 different pneumonia shots, then came down with pneumonia a couple of years later that almost killed him.  So then there's that.....lol.

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1349 on: April 18, 2020, 12:13:27 pm »
Okay, let's look at this
From the NY Post article: https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/regular-exercise-can-help-protect-from-severe-coronavirus-complication/

Quote
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated between 20 and 42 percent of all patients hospitalized with COVID-19 will develop ARDS.

Research predating the pandemic suggested that approximately 45 percent of patients who develop severe ARDS will die, according to a news release from the University of Virginia Health System.

Using real numbers from ND, of 439 cases, 47 were hospitalized (11%). 
Using the high estimation of 42%, 4.5% of the original total will develop ARDS, 2% of the original number will die.
Using the low estimation of 20%, 2.1% of the original total will develop ARDS, or just under 1% of the original total will die.

Testing the model, without any consideration of other factors, that means that of the 439 cases in ND, at the high end 9 deaths would be expected, at the low end, 4 deaths. While cases remain unresolved, there have been 9 deaths in the State. Age group from 50 to 80+, skewed toward the higher ages, and all with "underlying medical conditions".

Those numbers work out, but that does not address specific cause/effect relationships, only statistics that might be the same for people who consume products containing water, without more specific information.

Getting back to the original "Underlying Medical Conditions" which were originally used to define increased risk,

Heart disease
Hypertension
Diabetes
COPD and other pulmonary issues
Cancer (likely due to immune compromise from chemo/radiation)
HIV/AIDS

While age and obesity have been brought up, repeatedly, the likelihood of the above conditions (except HIV/AIDS which is behaviourally controlled) generally increases with age and obesity, so if we look at why age and obesity are factors, we get back to those same underlying medical conditions. The only other factor might be that obesity increases the amount of inflammation present in the body, which may contribute to the overall potential for ARDS.

The other numbers ....Of 439 cases, and the 47 hospitalized, only 16 remained in hospital. Thirty one of those cases were resolved, and assuming the 9 folks who died were in hospital at the time, shows that 71% of those who went into the hospital and whose cases are resolved survived. Sixteen cases are pending, and those numbers could go either way, up or down.
Presently, of the 439 positive cases, 41% are resolved (181), 95% of those are recovered (172), and 59% are yet to be resolved.
There is no data on whether the Hydroxychloroquine/Z-pack/Zinc Sulfate regimen has been used, nor whether the treatments for HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) have been used on critical patients exhibiting ARDS symptoms, so the efficacy of those courses of treatment cannnot be commented on in this context.

While 2% of those who tested positive in ND have died, and 59% of cases remain unresolved, the other number is this: 12,342 had been tested as of !!:00 CDT yesterday's report. Of those, 11903 tested negative. Only 3.6% tested positive, of those tested, of those tested, 0.07% have died of COVID-19.   
Trends:
It is too early to be breathing sighs of relief, here.
The number of active cases has been steadily increasing, leveling off every 4 days, after the 4 day interval peaks in new cases. The number of positive tests jumped by the greatest number of new cases just yesterday, by 46 new cases, though only 16 remain in hospital statewide. Overall, sharpest increases in new cases appear four days apart, and yesterday's reported peak was no exception (data up to April 16th).
While past performance is no indication of future returns, it is unlikely we have peaked here yet.
 
22 of 53 counties report no cases at all.
13 counties have only one, nine other counties from 2 to 5 cases.

Human factors:
Spread, as noticed after the initial case, has been generally along the I-94 corridor and the US 2 corridor, east/west transportation links.
The four major north/south highways I-29 in the East (Fargo to Grand Forks and north) Hwy52/281 between Jamestown and Devil's Lake, Highway 83 (Bismarck/Mandan to Minot) and Highway 85 (North from the State line w/S. Dakota to Williston and north) transect other counties also with cases, the exceptions being Benson County south of Devil's Lake, and Trail and Pembina counties in the East side of the State, the former between Fargo and Grand Forks (where people would fuel up and drive through, as a rule) and Pembina County being next to the Canadian Border, and likely not getting much non-local traffic since the outbreak.

The highest numbers of cases are in counties with cities with larger populations in the State, Fargo, Bismarck/Mandan, Dickinson along the I-94 corridor, and Grand Forks and Minot, along the  US 2 corridor.

Cass County, Where I-29 and I-94 cross at Fargo, has the highest number of confirmed cases, accounting for 42% of the cases in the State. Sixty nine percent are in counties along I-94.
 
There is no indication that there was spread associated with the first case known in the State, who was a rural resident in Ward county who self isolated and recovered at home.

Reopening the State for business: When it happens, will be data driven, and not on a set time frame, according to the announcements from the Governor and Dept of Health.
I'm fine with that over some arbitrary timeline, and would be okay with that on a county by county basis, even, with the caveat that some services may cause people to cross county lines and ultimately bring the infection to areas that currently do not have any cases at all.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis