Elizabeth Warren Mocks Christian Men for Believing and Living by the Bible

[Hoodat]

HoldOnNow... It is bigotry to obey YHWH?? Careful what you're steppin in there, @Hoodat

Nope.  Never said that.  If you believe that Y-HW-H is telling you not to vote for a candidate specifically because that candidate is homosexual, then be obedient.  However, no one up to this point has made that case.  Instead, we have had one poster falsely accusing the President of doing the opposite without any instruction on what Y-HW-H wants him to do.

The frustration for me is the complete disdain for truth.  It is the spiritual foundation upon which all discourse should be based.  And when we are unable to acknowledge truth, then we should consider 'fear' as the root cause of that shortcoming.  The Bible tells us 365 times 'Do not fear'.  I would assume that Y-HW-H places considerable importance on that one, especially since it is stated 365 more times than 'Don't vote for homosexuals in a democratic-style election'.

[Hoodat]

Hoodat:  Based on Trump's statement, I would say that he did not take into account their sexual preference in his decision to vote.  This of course directly contradicts your false claim that Trump wants to vote for homosexuals.  But hey, if you wish to double and triple down on bearing false witness, have at it.  It's only your credibility that is in the trash.

He doesn't want to vote for homosexuals?  How do you come to that conclusion?

I didn't come to that conclusion.  Perhaps you should consider what I actually wrote instead of intentionally replacing it with a false narrative.  There is more than once choice here:

• Deciding not vote for someone because they are homosexual.
• Deciding to vote for someone because they are homosexual.
• Not take into account a candidate's sexual preference when making a decision to vote.

Trump chose option 3.  So please stop giving a false account of what Trump said.

(See:  Logical Fallacies - False Dilemma)

[Hoodat]

@Chosen Daughter

He's ok with me as long as he doesn't say he would vote for Church Ladies. We already have Communists in our government,and we don't need their Nazi pals.

Watch it, buster!  My wife is a church lady.  And she is definitely not a nazi.  (But if she was running for office, she wouldn't be expecting your vote anyway, so no worries.)




For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

-John 3:17-

[roamer_1]

Nope.  Never said that.  If you believe that Y-HW-H is telling you not to vote for a candidate specifically because that candidate is homosexual, then be obedient.  However, no one up to this point has made that case.  Instead, we have had one poster falsely accusing the President of doing the opposite without any instruction on what Y-HW-H wants him to do.

@Hoodat
Aw, come on now. Knowing @Chosen Daughter as you do (and me as well), one might consider it an obvious inference that her Christian faith is the progenitor of her discernment rather than waggin around 'bigotry' in a deprecatory way... And I will raise up the will of Yah at this point, in the most technical and outright sense, since the polite but obvious inference seems to not be enough to speak about the elephant in the room.

In every case where election is the case, Yah has ALWAYS demanded choosing the exceptionally righteous. GOOD men. That an homosexual would be excluded goes without saying since homosexuality is assigned by Yah among the abominations... Sins so gross in the eyes of the Father as to be made particularly distinct.

To step back from that, away from the person, even to endorse the homosexual agenda is against Yah, against family, which is an important governing office to Yah, and against Torah (or the Way, in the Christian sense, same thing).

To wit, and in every sense: To accuse a daughter of Yah of bigotry for preaching or following Torah, is to accuse El Elyon Himself.

And to be quite clear, as you accuse her, you accuse me as well.

The frustration for me is the complete disdain for truth.  It is the spiritual foundation upon which all discourse should be based.  And when we are unable to acknowledge truth, then we should consider 'fear' as the root cause of that shortcoming.  The Bible tells us 365 times 'Do not fear'.  I would assume that Y-HW-H places considerable importance on that one, especially since it is stated 365 more times than 'Don't vote for homosexuals in a democratic-style election'.

As my reply above lines out, I think it picking nits.
To accuse Christians of bigotry where the Bible (and Torah particularly) are clear, IS accusing Yah.

Likewise, to defend Tump on this statement, where the inference is just as plain - Tump would have no problem breaking Torah (parting from the Way) to endorse (by vote) the unrighteous - whether in the person or the agenda.

If we are to be speaking truth, then let us speak plainly.
As to fear, fear YaHWeH.

[Chosen Daughter]

@Hoodat
Aw, come on now. Knowing @Chosen Daughter as you do (and me as well), one might consider it an obvious inference that her Christian faith is the progenitor of her discernment rather than waggin around 'bigotry' in a deprecatory way... And I will raise up the will of Yah at this point, in the most technical and outright sense, since the polite but obvious inference seems to not be enough to speak about the elephant in the room.

In every case where election is the case, Yah has ALWAYS demanded choosing the exceptionally righteous. GOOD men. That an homosexual would be excluded goes without saying since homosexuality is assigned by Yah among the abominations... Sins so gross in the eyes of the Father as to be made particularly distinct.

To step back from that, away from the person, even to endorse the homosexual agenda is against Yah, against family, which is an important governing office to Yah, and against Torah (or the Way, in the Christian sense, same thing).

To wit, and in every sense: To accuse a daughter of Yah of bigotry for preaching or following Torah, is to accuse El Elyon Himself.

And to be quite clear, as you accuse her, you accuse me as well.

As my reply above lines out, I think it picking nits.
To accuse Christians of bigotry where the Bible (and Torah particularly) are clear, IS accusing Yah.

Likewise, to defend Tump on this statement, where the inference is just as plain - Tump would have no problem breaking Torah (parting from the Way) to endorse (by vote) the unrighteous - whether in the person or the agenda.

If we are to be speaking truth, then let us speak plainly.
As to fear, fear YaHWeH.

@Hoodat is just splitting hairs.  Trump wasn't just making a comment he was sending a political message.  This has always been the liberals pushing homosexual "rights".  Well Trump is courting liberals openly now.  The number of Democrats at his rallies indicates what his message is going to be going into this campaign.  I fully expect a new leaning left to draw more and more liberals.  He is abandoning those with family values.  Its plain and simple.

Most Christians know the damage that homosexual politicians can do.  And just as liberals oppose Christian candidates, Christians should oppose homosexuals.  Christians need to vote for leaders with morals.

[roamer_1]

Most Christians know the damage that homosexual politicians can do. 

No, EVERYBODY knows. Two words:
Boy Scouts.

And just as liberals oppose Christian candidates, Christians should oppose homosexuals.  Christians need to vote for leaders with morals.

Of course they should. The Father demands it. Even common sense demands it. I am sick to death of this atmosphere where 'church ladies' are waived off as 'too doctrinaire'

That is a deprecation in itself.
I would hope some day to be worthy enough to be considered zealous by the Father. And that amount of zeal would surely be far more than doctrinaire to Men.

As to those around us trying to lower the bar on character and righteousness (largely to justify Tump), I will leave it in the observance of Alexis de Tocqueville... And everybody knows it is true in their hearts:

"I sought for the key to the greatness of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." -Alexis de Tocqueville


We are standing in the midst of it.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat
Aw, come on now. Knowing @Chosen Daughter as you do (and me as well), one might consider it an obvious inference that her Christian faith is the progenitor of her discernment rather than waggin around 'bigotry' in a deprecatory way...

Although the use of the word 'bigotry' was completely accurate by definition, I acknowledge that it is also an emotionally charged word, and therefore withdraw it going forward.

In every case where election is the case, Yah has ALWAYS demanded choosing the exceptionally righteous. GOOD men. That an homosexual would be excluded goes without saying since homosexuality is assigned by Yah among the abominations...

As are cowardice, idolatry, and lying.  Sin is sin.  G-d doesn't show preference.  One either hits the mark, or one does not.

To wit, and in every sense: To accuse a daughter of Yah of bigotry for preaching or following Torah, is to accuse El Elyon Himself.

And to be quite clear, as you accuse her, you accuse me as well.

Again, my issue here has nothing to do with @Chosen Daughter 's stance regarding homosexuality and how it defines her voting choices.  My issue has been the misrepresentation of what Trump said, even to the point of deception.  Trump has demonstrated that he does not take a candidate's sexual preference into account when considering whether or not to vote for that candidate.  Contrast this with Chosen Daughter's position where she does take into account a candidate's sexual preference.  Contrast this also with a good number of Buttigieg supporters whose reason for voting for him is because he is a homosexual.  Chosen Daughter is falsely accusing Trump of being in this last group.  However, it is her that has more in common with that group because that group (just like her) use sexual preference as the determining factor for voting.

Personally, I share Trump's position here.  For me, if a candidate vows to eliminate deficit spending, gives workers the power to invest Social Security taxes, etc., and that candidate also chooses to have sex outside of G-d's covenant of marriage between one man and one woman, I'll take the balanced budget and leave it up to G-d work on the sexual immorality part, just as he did with King David.

So far, I have found only one perfect person in the Bible.  All the rest are flawed in one way or another.  And I am reminded that it was G-d who put Nebuchadnezzer in power over Israel.  Was Nebuchadnezzer righteous?  Certainly not.  But G-d used him anyway.

[roamer_1]

Although the use of the word 'bigotry' was completely accurate by definition, I acknowledge that it is also an emotionally charged word, and therefore withdraw it going forward.

@Hoodat

Well, yes and no, and that is the reason I stood up. 'bigotry' is not merely emotionally charged, but rather, deprecatory - Used and over-used against those who rightly use a moral standard to exclude those seeking to liberalize sinful/immoral behaviors. It is technically false, not true. I am not a bigot for following Yah's commandments.

Whether the case, thank you for your withdrawing thereof.

As are cowardice, idolatry, and lying.  Sin is sin.  G-d doesn't show preference.  One either hits the mark, or one does not.

A categorical error - In a sense you are right: in the personal sense. But I am speaking to the national sense - the things for which the land will spit you out (as a nation), as it were. That is the context in which this should be framed. And to be fair to the homos, adultery and fornication are also abominations of the same sort...

Again, my issue here has nothing to do with @Chosen Daughter 's stance regarding homosexuality and how it defines her voting choices.  My issue has been the misrepresentation of what Trump said, even to the point of deception.  Trump has demonstrated that he does not take a candidate's sexual preference into account when considering whether or not to vote for that candidate.  Contrast this with Chosen Daughter's position where she does take into account a candidate's sexual preference.  Contrast this also with a good number of Buttigieg supporters whose reason for voting for him is because he is a homosexual.  Chosen Daughter is falsely accusing Trump of being in this last group.  However, it is her that has more in common with that group because that group (just like her) use sexual preference as the determining factor for voting.

A false non-equivalence between those who are homosexual activists and those who merely accept homosexuality... There is no moral neutral.

Personally, I share Trump's position here.  For me, if a candidate vows to eliminate deficit spending, gives workers the power to invest Social Security taxes, etc., and that candidate also chooses to have sex outside of G-d's covenant of marriage between one man and one woman, I'll take the balanced budget and leave it up to G-d work on the sexual immorality part, just as he did with King David.

Again, the national offense for which the land WILL spit you out. That is, in effect, what you are endorsing... Mussolini made the trains run on time.

So far, I have found only one perfect person in the Bible.  All the rest are flawed in one way or another.  And I am reminded that it was G-d who put Nebuchadnezzer in power over Israel.  Was Nebuchadnezzer righteous?  Certainly not.  But G-d used him anyway.

A serious cop-out. Yah PUNISHED Israel with Nebuchadnezzar. And I think Tump will wind up a punishment too.

And to extend your statement to it's logical end would imply that character has no no place at all in selecting leaders, which opposes Yah in his demand to choose righteous leaders.

And in demanding the requirement for righteous leaders, that means that Yah says righteousness in leaders is possible - Not a requirement which cannot be met. Ponder that a while.

[musiclady]

How about adding this possibility to the mix in this discussion?

The homosexual sinner is repentant and living a celibate, chaste life, recognizing his sin?

Yes, homosexuality is a sin, as other aforementioned sins are, but it is possible to recognize it as such and try as we all do to live holy lives.

The man/woman is not part of the leftist agenda to brainwash people into believing it is just an "alternate lifestyle," but admits that to act on his urges would be wrong.

The issue for me is the repentance.  I would not have as much of a problem with Trump if he had ever admitted his serial adultery or grabbing women was wrong.  He has not, so for me, I would have less of an issue with the homosexual, not giving in to his sinful nature than a heterosexual who thinks there's nothing wrong with doing whatever he feels like doing.

btw, back to the main thread topic....... Elizabeth Warren, in her condemnation of both Christian men and women is disgusting.

@Hoodat  @roamer_1 @Chosen Daughter

Also - I tend to be in agreement with Hoodat in the point that there is a difference in saying one would vote for a homosexual and saying one WANTS to vote for a homosexual.  Whether or not Trump wants to do the latter is debatable.   His being a social liberal makes it seem possible that he would, but he hasn't said so specifically.

I think he was just pandering like the politician he is.

[Mod5]

Please discuss the topic of the thread, Senator Warren's comment and what it means for her campaign and voters. Trump is not the topic, Pence is not the topic, and the Deity by any name is not the topic.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I think he was just pandering like the politician he is.

There is the word we've been looking for.  rats pander to the gay lobby.  GOP panders to the gay lobby.

Two parties with one position.  surrender

You got some great post this on this thread @Chosen Daughter   

[roamer_1]

How about adding this possibility to the mix in this discussion?

The homosexual sinner is repentant and living a celibate, chaste life, recognizing his sin?

Yes, homosexuality is a sin, as other aforementioned sins are, but it is possible to recognize it as such and try as we all do to live holy lives.

The man/woman is not part of the leftist agenda to brainwash people into believing it is just an "alternate lifestyle," but admits that to act on his urges would be wrong.

@musiclady

That's right! My own cross to bear is my silver tongue... If it were not for my highly overactive conscience, I would be a rich, rich man... And in that, as a type of potential thievery, I find thievery to be a kinda gray area... Not that I would take what ain't mine from someone personally - But I often think how easy it would be, and have to catch myself...

But that is not what this conversation is about - This is about accepting active 'thievery' or 'homosexuality' - Which is a different thing.

The issue for me is the repentance.  I would not have as much of a problem with Trump if he had ever admitted his serial adultery or grabbing women was wrong.  He has not, so for me, I would have less of an issue with the homosexual, not giving in to his sinful nature than a heterosexual who thinks there's nothing wrong with doing whatever he feels like doing.

Exactly so.

btw, back to the main thread topic....... Elizabeth Warren, in her condemnation of both Christian men and women is disgusting.

Yep. And false as the day is long too, btw.

Also - I tend to be in agreement with Hoodat in the point that there is a difference in saying one would vote for a homosexual and saying one WANTS to vote for a homosexual.  Whether or not Trump wants to do the latter is debatable.   His being a social liberal makes it seem possible that he would, but he hasn't said so specifically.

I can cede the point as you have framed it, but as a distinction without a difference. 
When one is willing to overlook blatant unrepentant sin, all bets are off for this nation. It is the same thing as endorsing immorality.

Look at adultery and fornication where we as a nation have already given in. Horrible sin that is now just part of the furniture...

I think he was just pandering like the politician he is.

YUP. 

[musiclady]

Please discuss the topic of the thread, Senator Warren's comment and what it means for her campaign and voters. Trump is not the topic, Pence is not the topic, and the Deity by any name is not the topic.

Is calling Christian women Nazis the topic? 

[mystery-ak]

@Chosen Daughter

He's ok with me as long as he doesn't say he would vote for Church Ladies. We already have Communists in our government,and we don't need their Nazi pals.

Really @sneakypete....that post is uncalled for...

[mystery-ak]

Is calling Christian women Nazis the topic? 

No it's not....@sneakypete 's response was uncalled for and disgusting to even equate Christian women with Nazis

[musiclady]

No it's not....@sneakypete 's response was uncalled for and disgusting to even equate Christian women with Nazis

Thank you!

It's bad enough to know that Elizabeth Warren is badmouthing Christian women who still stand for morality, but to see it coming from a Briefer...... 

[musiclady]

@musiclady

That's right! My own cross to bear is my silver tongue... If it were not for my highly overactive conscience, I would be a rich, rich man... And in that, as a type of potential thievery, I find thievery to be a kinda gray area... Not that I would take what ain't mine from someone personally - But I often think how easy it would be, and have to catch myself...

But that is not what this conversation is about - This is about accepting active 'thievery' or 'homosexuality' - Which is a different thing.

Exactly so.

Yep. And false as the day is long too, btw.

I can cede the point as you have framed it, but as a distinction without a difference. 
When one is willing to overlook blatant unrepentant sin, all bets are off for this nation. It is the same thing as endorsing immorality.

Look at adultery and fornication where we as a nation have already given in. Horrible sin that is now just part of the furniture...

YUP. 

No serious problem with anything you've said here, but I do see a slight distinction if someone is a homosexual who isn't giving in to the sin and someone who is carrying the torch for blatant immorality.

Not that it's likely to ever be an issue, because people who are wise and spiritually aware enough to recognize their own sin aren't likely to be advertising it.

The point I was making was that homosexuality is indeed a sin, as other sins are, but the argument that one must accept a politician who is homosexual because everyone is a sinner is to me, completely bogus.  (And the parallel to dismissing the heterosexual sins of politicians because we are "all sinners" is equally bogus).

We don't have to do what society is pushing us to do and accept any kind of moral sin as acceptable because it's been forced on us as no big deal............ or even worse preferable to chastity.

What Warren said here, to me, is hideous.  I hate more than anything the left's attempt to put all women in the same leftist box and pretend that there aren't women who think for themselves or still hold to values that are eternal.

Warren, in trying to mock moral men, is mocking us all, and the One who created us...... male and female.

[Sighlass]

..........................Trump is clearly stating that he is not a bigot who would vote against someone based solely upon their sexual preference.  But clearly you are.

I guess following one's faith falsely makes one a bigot.... A bigot I guess I was meant to be if the definition meant accepting every perverted thing as normal and not daring to call it for what it is.   

I don't so much mind that Trump says he would (perchance of course) vote for a homosexual... but that he draws the line (or circle with presumable Christians of Biblical faith in it) and places himself squarely outside of it as if those inside the circle are somehow wrong...

This plays out in my mind (embellished here of course)... Inside the circle ---> Bigot... Outside the circle ---> Great Unbigotry and inclusive worldly guru of loving gracefulness that plays 8th dimensional political chess to win win win.

Trump of course has played coy on the subject before... The NY Values interview has him trying to play the middle ground (lukewarm) on homosexual issues...  I understand the value of a political non-position on some issues... I also understand I demand a position on some things (this being one of them).... Trump tap dances on both homosexuality and abortion... it is part of the reason I remain a Never-Trumper ... Others have a more flowing line in the sand (some may not have a line it seems), they don't have to answer for me come judgement day... and that is ok.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

If our president (and others) considers me a bigot... nothing new.. Matthew 10:22/Luke 6:22 ... I care for the homosexuals more than others that wouldn't dare to tell them that what they are doing is wrong. If I was heading to such an end, only those that don't care for me would avoid telling me of my destruction. It seems a lot of folks don't really care for some of their fellow men and use "tolerance" and "bigotry" as the means to excuse it.

[txradioguy]

Warren is just another typical Socialist...there's no higher power than the Government...none.

[corbe]

   And now for something completely different.



   

[Hoodat]

   And now for something completely different.

[sneakypete]

Thank you!

It's bad enough to know that Elizabeth Warren is badmouthing Christian women who still stand for morality, but to see it coming from a Briefer...... 

@musiclady

Maybe we should have TBR posters pledge a loyalty oath to fundie Christianity? After all,we don't need nunna that "free thinking stuff round here",do we?

I bet you pulled this stuff on Freak Republic,too.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I guess following one's faith falsely makes one a bigot.... A bigot I guess I was meant to be if the definition meant accepting every perverted thing as normal and not daring to call it for what it is.   

I don't so much mind that Trump says he would (perchance of course) vote for a homosexual... but that he draws the line (or circle with presumable Christians of Biblical faith in it) and places himself squarely outside of it as if those inside the circle are somehow wrong...

This plays out in my mind (embellished here of course)... Inside the circle ---> Bigot... Outside the circle ---> Great Unbigotry and inclusive worldly guru of loving gracefulness that plays 8th dimensional political chess to win win win.

Trump of course has played coy on the subject before... The NY Values interview has him trying to play the middle ground (lukewarm) on homosexual issues...  I understand the value of a political non-position on some issues... I also understand I demand a position on some things (this being one of them).... Trump tap dances on both homosexuality and abortion... it is part of the reason I remain a Never-Trumper ... Others have a more flowing line in the sand (some may not have a line it seems), they don't have to answer for me come judgement day... and that is ok.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

If our president (and others) considers me a bigot... nothing new.. Matthew 10:22/Luke 6:22 ... I care for the homosexuals more than others that wouldn't dare to tell them that what they are doing is wrong. If I was heading to such an end, only those that don't care for me would avoid telling me of my destruction. It seems a lot of folks don't really care for some of their fellow men and use "tolerance" and "bigotry" as the means to excuse it.

 

Well worth another read in case Christian disappointment in the leadership of President Trump is still a mystery. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Warren is just another typical Socialist...there's no higher power than the Government...none.

The more I hear her, the less I like her.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict Elizabeth Warren gets zero votes from Breifers in 2020!!!  Prove me wrong!

[corbe]

   There are more than a few Briefers that think Me & You will vote for her because of her Indian Heritage @Once-Ler