Country Music by Ken Burns

[sneakypete]

Anybody else watching this on PBS? There is some seriously good stuff being played and discussed,and if you even remotely like country music,gospel,blue grass,or blues,you would enjoy it.

[andy58-in-nh]

Anybody else watching this on PBS? There is some seriously good stuff being played and discussed,and if you even remotely like country music,gospel,blue grass,or blues,you would enjoy it.

I have been watching (and DVR-ing) it.  It's a typical Burns film, with still photo pans interspersed with in-camera interviews and music clips. Very enjoyable, so far. It's a deep exploration of the roots and branches of country music along with some great stories and peppered with little-known facts and events along the road.

[sneakypete]

I have been watching (and DVR-ing) it.  It's a typical Burns film, with still photo pans interspersed with in-camera interviews and music clips. Very enjoyable, so far. It's a deep exploration of the roots and branches of country music along with some great stories and peppered with little-known facts and events along the road.

@andy58-in-nh

I am LOVING the hell out of it! I hear them talking about songs I haven't thought of in decades that I heard as a child,and then they will play a video of it being performed,and damned if I don't sing along with it!

And I am old enough to remember listening to the Grand old Opry on the radio. Dammit.

I had forgotten all about Gene Autry having a singing career until they started playing his songs,and was shocked to hear he was more popular than Roy Rogers. I wanted to BE Roy Rogers when I was a little kid.

I do agree with them that the Carter Family are a national treasure.

[andy58-in-nh]

@andy58-in-nh

I am LOVING the hell out of it! I hear them talking about songs I haven't thought of in decades that I heard as a child,and then they will play a video of it being performed,and damned if I don't sing along with it!

And I am old enough to remember listening to the Grand old Opry on the radio. Dammit.

@sneakypete

I've been having a lot of fun with it, whiskey glass on the table in front of me and guitar in hand, playing along with so many of those songs either for the first time, or for the first time in a long time.  The series picks up again on Sunday night and that's when they should start getting into the really good stuff from the '70s- Waylon, Willie, Jones, Haggard, Hank Jr. and on and on... 

[berdie]

I was hoping there would be a review of the series here. I have it DVRed but haven't watched yet.

[dfwgator]

Don't tell me, the White man stole Country music from the black man.

[Wingnut]

Don't tell me, the White man stole Country music from the black man.

He'll gator. Everyone knows your Muslim's invented both types of that music

[andy58-in-nh]

Don't tell me, the White man stole Country music from the black man.

Actually, there's a big emphasis in the series on the sharing and blending of traditions, which is how music has always propagated.  White musicians did in fact borrow from black gospel and blues songs. But black artists borrowed equally from white Appalachian ballads, railroad songs and Scots-Irish dances.

Country is steeped in all of that, plus bluegrass, German Texas settler yodeling, jazz and Latin American guitar and horn arrangements. And that's why it endures: Country music - real country, not Nashville Chewing Gum Pop - is the still the melting pot that America used to be in so many other respects.     

[Ghost Bear]

Wife and I have been DVR'ing it, we've watched the first three episodes so far and will probably watch the fourth episode tonight. We've both been enjoying it a lot, so much so that I'm considering going out to PBS.org and buying the series on Blu-ray just to have it.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

I've been having a lot of fun with it, whiskey glass on the table in front of me and guitar in hand, playing along with so many of those songs either for the first time, or for the first time in a long time.  The series picks up again on Sunday night and that's when they should start getting into the really good stuff from the '70s- Waylon, Willie, Jones, Haggard, Hank Jr. and on and on...

@andy58-in-nh

It's got Hank Williams,the real one. It also has Brenda Lee,Willie Nelson,The Carter Family,Johnny Cash,Patsy Cline,Ray Charles,and dozens of others.

HOW could it possibly be anything less that absolutely wonderful?

[sneakypete]

Don't tell me, the White man stole Country music from the black man.

@dfwgator

No,but it does have several prominent black singers/musicians from the 50's and 60's saying there is so much cross-over between "black music" and "white music" that they are virtually the same thing,and people like Ray Charles saying they are big fans of country music.

BTW,so far the word "rap" hasn't even been whispered. And why would it be,when this is a series about music?

[sneakypete]

White musicians did in fact borrow from black gospel and blues songs. But black artists borrowed equally from white Appalachian ballads, railroad songs and Scots-Irish dances.

@andy58-in-nh

ALL "American Music" has it's roots in the Protestant Churches,and the hymns that produced the inspiration to be creative. It was neither a white nor a black thing,it was a "CHURCH THING".

For whatever reason,it seems to me that blacks are more likely to recognize and acknowledge this basic truth. I remember hearing blacks say things like "Look out! She's going to church!" back in the 50's and 60's when someone like Aretha (ok,ok. There was nobody like Aretha,BUT Aretha.) or Tina Turner would get caught up in the moment and truly cut loose when performing live. The "SPIRIT" was moving them,even if it wasn't "The Holy Ghost".

[corbe]

   Thanks for this, watching now, it's great, DVR the rest.

[berdie]

I watched the first four installments over the weekend and must say that I am totally enjoying it. Burns did a good job so far.

The only negative I have is not directed at him. There is so much information in each episode my mind starts to wander and think about what I know is being said...and the music. So the negative has to do with my wandering mind. After the first two episodes I started taking notes on things I wanted to delve further into the next day. That's my bad...not his, lol.

[GrouchoTex]

It's great.
Loved the Bob Wills and Hank Williams stuff, and the Ernest Tubb, and Roy Acuff, aw, heck, all of it!

[truth_seeker]

I watched Ep. #1. and #2. so far on the PBS streaming channel with my Roku.

No cost. So far.  Liking it a lot.

 

[berdie]

It's great.
Loved the Bob Wills and Hank Williams stuff, and the Ernest Tubb, and Roy Acuff, aw, heck, all of it!

Me too!  You have to admit that was some fine music to dance to. Best contemporary artist for dancing is George Strait, imho.

[GrouchoTex]

Me too!  You have to admit that was some fine music to dance to. Best contemporary artist for dancing is George Strait, imho.

Ol' George will pay some Western Swing, no doubt.

[corbe]

   Speaking of Country Music, Garth Brooks kicks off his new 'Dive Bar Tour' tonight @ Texas's oldest Dance Hall, Gruene Hall.



http://gruenehall.com/garthbrooksday/

[dfwgator]

   Speaking of Country Music, Garth Brooks kicks off his new 'Dive Bar Tour' tonight @ Texas's oldest Dance Hall, Gruene Hall.



http://gruenehall.com/garthbrooksday/

Garth Brooks killed country music.

[corbe]

 

[roamer_1]

Garth Brooks killed country music.

Oh, I dunno... 'Low Places' is kinda a theme song of mine... 

[Wingnut]

Garth Brooks killed country music.

If you believe that then you must agree that Billy Ray drove a nail thu its aikie breakie heart and the next stop was tractor rap shit.

[andy58-in-nh]

If you believe that then you must agree that Billy Ray drove a nail thu its aikie breakie heart and the next stop was tractor rap shit.

Garth Brooks is a bit too commercial for my taste, but at least he's still Country. On the other hand, Billy Ray and his Harlot from Hell daughter should be put on the very next shuttle to the outer reaches of the solar system, without a radio. 

[corbe]

Hard Times, U.S.A.

Ken Burns’ new PBS series about country music will break your cheating heart.

by  Robert Stacy McCain 
 
September 24, 2019, 12:04 AM

Dwight Yoakam had me in tears Sunday night. I was watching the new Ken Burns PBS documentary series about the history of country music, and Yoakam quoted a Merle Haggard song, “Holding Things Together,” which is about a man trying to raise his children after his wife has left the family. When Yoakam sang the verse about a heartbroken father attempting to comfort his daughter on her birthday, he choked up, and suddenly the tears were streaming from my eyes, too.

They just don’t write ’em like that anymore, not even in Nashville. Those old songs about hard times and broken hearts, crying in your beer over a cheating woman — you can literally feel the pain in the twanging voices and the whining steel guitars. And the men and women who sang those songs knew a thing or two about hard times, having come from backgrounds of poverty that few Americans in the 21st century can imagine.

Give credit to Burns for this: His eight-part series reminds us that what our contemporary progressives denounce as “white privilege” has never been universal in America, and it certainly didn’t typify the backgrounds of the folks who made Nashville famous as “Music City, U.S.A.” Haggard, for example, was born in Kern County, California, in 1937, the youngest of three children in a family that had left a farm in Oklahoma after their barn burned down. The Haggards were “Okies,” characters right out of a Steinbeck novel, at the bottom of the heap in one of the worst economic eras in American history. Merle’s life didn’t get any easier when his father died in 1945. The future country music star was only eight at the time, and after his father’s death he became a juvenile delinquent. He was later sentenced to San Quentin prison, which inspired one of his most famous lyrics:

I turned twenty-one in prison,
 Doin’ life without parole.
 No one could steer me right,
 But Mama tried, Mama tried.
 Mama tried to raise me better,
 But her pleading, I denied.
 That leaves only me to blame, ’cause Mama tried.

<..snip..>

https://spectator.org/hard-times-u-s-a/

[Fishrrman]

The opening sequence music for episode 2 was completely wrong.

It was an otherwise-excellent recording of Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", but it was by Mavis Staples, who has no authentic connection to American white "country" music.

This is not to denigrate Ms. Staples, who is a wonderful singer in her own right, but again, this was not the track to use for opening this segment.

A much more appropriate version would have been that of the great Red Clay Ramblers, recorded around 1978 (attached below). They essentially "revived" Hard Times, as I don't recall hearing it performed much before their version, yet it is more popular today.

The Ramblers' version should have been the track used.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Addendum (made after reading other comments above):
I agree with dfwgator above -- there's too much of an attempt to interject black influence into this series (but that's a Ken Burns "trademark" and one had better steel oneself with that knowledge before digesting his product).

Yes, black music had some influence on the development of "country" music, but it's by-and-large the creation of Euro people, and reflects their heritage.

(Aside: Arthur Shulz, the black fiddler/guitarist, was an influence of Monroe, and Monroe traveled with DeFord Bailey back in the Jim Crow days).

I'll be interested to see what Burns and his writers say about Bill Monroe in episode 3 (I've only viewed 2 of them so far). In my view, if Ayn Rand's John Galt had been a musician, he would have been Monroe!

[sneakypete]

The opening sequence music for episode 2 was completely wrong.

It was an otherwise-excellent recording of Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", but it was by Mavis Staples, who has no authentic connection to American white "country" music.

This is not to denigrate Ms. Staples, who is a wonderful singer in her own right, but again, this was not the track to use for opening this segment.

@Fishrrman

Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????

The TRUTH is black and white Americans living in rural America had more "equality going on" than either could stand. They often worked together and helped each other out when someone was having a particularly hard time. They had a HELL of a lot more in common with each other than either did with the blacks or whites living in the cities,and their lives reflected this.

So did their music. If Pops Staples were alive today,he could and would tell you the truth on this matter. He and his girls got their start with him as a preacher and them singing in the choir of his church. If you don't understand what I am talking about,find a black holiness church and a white holiness church in a rural area,and attend a few services. When the music starts playing and voices start singing,they get so full of the "Holy Spirit" it's a wonder nobody explodes.

BTW,there is a famous story about "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" by the Carter Family being sang at the funeral of a black woman at the request of her family. The Carters were on tour,and something happened to their car and they just happened to pull off the road where the funeral was being held. The black mourners knew who they were and asked them if they would sing that song at their mama's funeral,so they dragged out their guitars and went for it. I am guessing they had one HELL of a backup choir on that one.

The point here really being that the rural blacks immediately knew who the Carter Family were,knew their music,and felt comfortable asking them to sing at their mother's funeral.

The other point is they were happy to do it.

For the most part,blacks and whites in this country didn't really have many problems until they moved into cities. Rural people back then pretty much lived the same lives and had the same dreams,regardless of skin color.

Not to mention most were too tired at night to cause trouble,even if they happened to live close enough to a town with a bar. You worked from sunrise to sunset except for Sunday,and then you ate supper and went to bed. When there was no work to do you didn't have enough money to go anywhere and cause any trouble.

[catfish1957]

Anybody else watching this on PBS? There is some seriously good stuff being played and discussed,and if you even remotely like country music,gospel,blue grass,or blues,you would enjoy it.

Is Burns keeping out his SJW tendencies that have polluted previous documentaries?

[sneakypete]

Is Burns keeping out his SJW tendencies that have polluted previous documentaries?

@catfish1957

So far the only ones I have noticed have been so minor they were barely worth noticing. It's hard to criticize someone for saying blacks and whites in rural American got along pretty well in the 30's and 40's,because they did.

[Neverdul]

I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves. Sure there were many string instruments from all around the world, but the banjo was an instrument brought by and played primarily by slaves in early America.

http://bluegrassbanjo.org/banhist.html

I love this group BTW – Carolina Chocolate Drops – and the incomparable Rhiannon Giddens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCmg9Oj9XM

They do all sorts of Americana music, traditional negro spirituals, bluegrass, early blues, country and even Gaelic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RtT0obOS80


Seriously, you can’t listen to the Johnny Cash/ June Carter Cash song Jackson without hearing the influence of old “negro” and early blues music.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODsZjAHoWD0

[roamer_1]

I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves. Sure there were many string instruments from all around the world, but the banjo was an instrument brought by and played primarily by slaves in early America.

More than any other thing, I truly miss my Aida 5 string 

[Fishrrman]

Pete tries to chide me with:
"Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????"

Of course I know that.
But this series IS NOT ABOUT black sharecroppers or about blacks in general.

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".

As such, I state that it's inappropriate to use music tracks that have little or no relation to such music.

Pleasant Carter did use a black guy to go around with him and help him remember melodies. But again, are you going to imply that the vast majority of the Carter Family's material was not from a Euro heritage?

C'mon.

Addendum:
The definite work on the Carter Family (in my music library):
https://www.amazon.com/Carter-Family-Their-Legacy-American/dp/074324382X/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=will+you+miss+me&qid=1569348514&s=gateway&sr=8-2

[Ghost Bear]

...

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".

As such, I state that it's inappropriate to use music tracks that have little or no relation to such music.

...

So, should the documentary have included Charlie Pride, or just left him out, in your opinion?

[roamer_1]

Seriously, you can’t listen to the Johnny Cash/ June Carter Cash song Jackson without hearing the influence of old “negro” and early blues music.

That's right, btw... Memphis ain't that far from Nashville, and never has been... Delta Blues and Country have much that is the same - The early stuff isn't even a difference.

It has long been said that you can;t sing the blues without living the blues, and likewise country - probably the major difference between the Haggard generation and today... Rhinestone Cowboys (heh. knowing your affinity for GC)

 

[Gefn]

My mom has been watching this on tv and loves it. I’ve been binge watching something else on Netflix.

[sneakypete]

I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves.

 

@Neverdul

I have no reason to disbelieve the banjo originated in Africa,but it damn sure wasn't brought here by slaves. The slaves that left Africa by ship were chained in the holds and didn't even own clothes. The only "possession" they had were chains,and they didn't even own the chains.

Chances are some of the crew bought and learned to play them,and that's how the banjo came to North America.

<I>I love this group BTW – Carolina Chocolate Drops – and the incomparable Rhiannon Giddens.</I>

No kidding. Especially about the remarkable Miss Giddens.


 

[sneakypete]

Pete tries to chide me with:
"Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????"

Of course I know that.
But this series IS NOT ABOUT black sharecroppers or about blacks in general.

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".</I>

No,it's about the history of Country Music. Music doesn't have a color.

 

Pleasant Carter did use a black guy to go around with him and help him remember melodies. But again, are you going to imply that the vast majority of the Carter Family's material was not from a Euro heritage?

No. I just fail to see what that has to do with it. Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?


 

[sneakypete]

My mom has been watching this on tv and loves it. I’ve been binge watching something else on Netflix.

@Gefn

Don't worry about it. It's not going to disappear. If you don't want to buy it,just wait until your local PBS station does another fund raiser,and watch it then.

[Fishrrman]

Sneakypete asked:
"Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?"

Did you enjoy the short clip of Uncle John Scruggs in part 1?

[sneakypete]

Sneakypete asked:
"Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?"

Did you enjoy the short clip of Uncle John Scruggs in part 1?

@Fishrrman

I don't watch or listen to music videos anymore. I don't even have speakers. I had to do this because I would click on one music link,and end up spending the rest of the day watching and listening to more.

Sorry! After reading my response it occurred to me you meant Part 1 of the series.

The truth is I don't remember it. Still suffering from chemo brain. Better now,but still have a long ways to go.

[berdie]

So, should the documentary have included Charlie Pride, or just left him out, in your opinion?

In my opinion, Charlie Pride's segment was great. At the time he rose to fame there was still a lot of racial strife, especially in C&W. And he showed great humor. I had no idea that Farron Young* was such a help to him. Of course I like him and his voice. I don't care what color the guy is. He was a ground breaker with a great voice. I have many musicians in my family as well as friends. They all listen to all kinds of music. So I don't think Burns is far fetched about the cross overs.

I also enjoyed the Loretta Lynn  segment and her humor. And I'll always wonder what Billy Joe and the girl were dropping off the bridge. I'm only thru segment 5 of this doc. But so far, I don't see a lot of political bs. Don't know if I'll be able to stay up long enough to see segment 6 tonight but my plan is to try.

*My dearly departed and I had a record of Young singing "Burning Bridges". It was "our song".

[GrouchoTex]

Last night, they had the outlaw country, Willie & Waylon, Armadillo World Headquarters, etc.
Good stuff again.

[Gefn]

Willie is da man

[AllThatJazzZ]

I got to watch the first episode and a couple more (5 & 6 maybe? ). It aired during baseball season, and I couldn't be pried away from Astros games. I'm hoping they eventually re-air the series at some point. If they do, I hope someone will bump this thread and give everyone a heads-up.

[sneakypete]

  I'm hoping they eventually re-air the series at some point. If they do, I hope someone will bump this thread and give everyone a heads-up.

@AllThatJazzZ

Call me a wild-eyed optimist,but I am pretty sure they will air it again. And again,and again,and again. EVERY time PBS has a fund-raiser they will air most of it. They won't air it all because they want to sell the DVD set to raise funds,but they will air most of it.

I will also be surprised if you can't get it off of one of the streaming channels for a fee,or just buy it outright as a boxed set right now.

And,"Yes,it IS worth what you will have to pay for it,even though I don't know how much that is at this point. I recorded and watched the whole damn thing,and there wasn't a single part I didn't enjoy the hell out of.

I especially liked the parts showing Hank Williams at the Opery way back then. It's easy now to forget what a 20 foot tall monster he really was back then. He just hit the music country music industry running,and flat took over.

I had forgotten so much of that stuff over the years,but it definitely brought back childhood memories. If you lived in MY house back in the 50's,you either watched the Grand Old Opery when it came on,or you went and found something else to do because that was an argument you were NOT going to win. Same with the old Ed Sullivan Show. For all practical purposes,the other two channels back then could have just gone off the air for that hour because nobody was watching them,anyhow.

It was on the Ed Sullivan Show that a VERY young sneakypete fell in love with Keely Smith and the type of music she was singing. I even admired her husband,Louie Prima. I never even knew such music existed before Ed Sullivan came into my house.

[truth_seeker]

I watchedthe 8th and final episode last night. I received it  on the PBS streaming channel on Roku.

Never any charge. Episodes 1-8 available right now.

The history aspect is great. The music aspect is great. Do not miss it.

[sneakypete]

I watchedthe 8th and final episode last night. I received it  on the PBS streaming channel on Roku.

Never any charge. Episodes 1-8 available right now.

The history aspect is great. The music aspect is great. Do not miss it.

@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.

[berdie]

@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.

Me either @sneakypete . It could have easily gone on another 16 hours and would have been just as enjoyable.

[Jazzhead]

 I saw the preview and concert, and the first episode.   It looks to be a superb series.   I was inspired by the first episode to do a deep dive into the Carter Family's music,  which I am still digging thanks to lot of songs and documentary material on YouTube.   My stars,  Maybelle Carter's guitar playing is a revelation!

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.

My roots are not the pure Nashville aspect.

But the series was highly educational by knitting together things I knew.

I grew up with Roy Rogers, Gene Autrey, the Sons of the Pioneers.

El Paso, Tom Dooley, and 60s folk.

For me fast forward, Willie Nelson sings Kristofferson songs (abt. 1981).

My father simply loved Johnny Cash.

A lot of American folk music came from the British Isles.

And we have sent it back for them to enjoy. And they have sent some back over, again.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1