They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot

[Bill Cipher]

Ok, stupid little anecdote time:  I was in a stop and shop grocery store the other day and almost bumped into a new robot they had wandering the store using “big data” analyses to look for spills and messes in the aisles.  I have to say that, even though I’m not a Luddite and generally like tech, it creeped me out a bit having the thing wandering around.  In particular, it would stop and start, giving one the impression that at any moment it might lunge at you if it determined that you were on top of a mess in the aisle. 

It weirded me out a bit, despite myself.  I’d rather have people periodically wandering the aisles looking for messes to clean up. 

[bigheadfred]

Ok, stupid little anecdote time:  I was in a stop and shop grocery store the other day and almost bumped into a new robot they had wandering the store using “big data” analyses to look for spills and messes in the aisles.  I have to say that, even though I’m not a Luddite and generally like tech, it creeped me out a bit having the thing wandering around.  In particular, it would stop and start, giving one the impression that at any moment it might lunge at you if it determined that you were on top of a mess in the aisle. 

It weirded me out a bit, despite myself.  I’d rather have people periodically wandering the aisles looking for messes to clean up.

I am a Luddite. Thanks for your reply. A couple of pages back I posted an article or two that dealt with the "ceepiness" of robots.

[bigheadfred]

@Bill Cipher

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,350928.msg2005777.html#msg2005777

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,350928.msg2005781.html#msg2005781

[Bill Cipher]

@Bill Cipher

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,350928.msg2005777.html#msg2005777

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,350928.msg2005781.html#msg2005781

Yeah, it was weird like that.  The robot wasn’t even vaguely human-shaped, but it was moving around in ways that were unsettling, particularly, I think, since there was no way to gauge what it was likely to do when it was nearby.

[bigheadfred]

Yeah, it was weird like that.  The robot wasn’t even vaguely human-shaped, but it was moving around in ways that were unsettling, particularly, I think, since there was no way to gauge what it was likely to do when it was nearby.

Some of these scary movies they have out. They do sped up movements and start stop things with the monster that creep me out.

Robots do the same thing to me. 

[sneakypete]

Ok, stupid little anecdote time:  I was in a stop and shop grocery store the other day and almost bumped into a new robot they had wandering the store using “big data” analyses to look for spills and messes in the aisles.  I have to say that, even though I’m not a Luddite and generally like tech, it creeped me out a bit having the thing wandering around.  In particular, it would stop and start, giving one the impression that at any moment it might lunge at you if it determined that you were on top of a mess in the aisle. 

It weirded me out a bit, despite myself.  I’d rather have people periodically wandering the aisles looking for messes to clean up.

@Bill Cipher

Me,too. ESPECIALLY since those "wander around to look for messes to clean up" jobs used to be called "starting positions". People like high school children who had never had a job could apply for and get one at minimum wage while having the luxury of having their parents pay their bills while they are learning about responsibility and what it takes to hold a job.

Not to mention when illiterate,uneducated,or handi-caped/old people that have no choice but to take those jobs have to deal with on a daily basis,so that when they are rolling in riches and shopping in stores,they can show those people a little compassion and consideration,

Jobs like that tend to make people more human later in life.

What do we get out of those freaking robots???

Just call me a Luddite if you want. I can handle it,and in cases like this,wear the badge with pride.

[sneakypete]

I am a Luddite. Thanks for your reply. A couple of pages back I posted an article or two that dealt with the "ceepiness" of robots.

@bigheadfred

DAYUM,fred! There are two of us here!

I would say I am proudly going backwards,but with public discussions of sex being what they are today,don't like the implications that might give some people.

[sneakypete]

Yeah, it was weird like that.  The robot wasn’t even vaguely human-shaped, but it was moving around in ways that were unsettling, particularly, I think, since there was no way to gauge what it was likely to do when it was nearby.

@Bill Cipher

Stores have so many cameras these days it is dangerous to take direct action,so you should consider indirect action. Next time you are there and the robot is creeping you out,announce in a VERY loud voice "This robot is creeping me out! Does it bother anyone else?"  If you can get a bunch of other people to complain and maybe sign a petition,you MIGHT be able to get the store owner to toss it and bring back the kid with pimples.

It's worth a try,anyway.

[Sanguine]

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

[bigheadfred]

@bigheadfred

DAYUM,fred! There are two of us here!

I would say I am proudly going backwards,but with public discussions of sex being what they are today,don't like the implications that might give some people.

Screw 'em.

[roamer_1]

@bigheadfred

DAYUM,fred! There are two of us here!

Make that three.

[Smokin Joe]

I actually had two girlfriends that chewed. My biggest complaint, in both cases, was getting in my freezer and 'sharing' from my rolls. I keep a fair supply laying around... Always have. I do not like being jittery driving into town for a can at 2 in the morning. In both cases, eventually, that's exactly what happened.

The thing is, only the one of em chewed Cope. The other did Skoal with cherry liquor added in.

Kinda like women 'sharing' off my plate - I think they do that as an exercise to prove trust.
There are better ways to do that, I would tell em, picking bit's of their hand from between my teeth...

My, my, you are extreme. Just fork 'em.

[Smokin Joe]

Make that three.

I'm not exactly a Luddite, let's just say I am slow to embrace (or trust) the latest widgets.

[sneakypete]

a
Kinda like women 'sharing' off my plate - I think they do that as an exercise to prove trust.

 

@roamer_1

Naw,they do that to show you who is boss. They want you to see them as the power figure your mother was when you were a child. Actually,when it comes to stuff like this,they ain't actually doing ANY thinking. It's party a genetic survival trait that has been around as long as there has been men and women,since it also serves to make you as protective of them as you are your own mother. Women you are sleeping with can be given the boot with no thought the instant a prettier one comes along,but it's hard to give the boot to a woman who is part mother in your sub-conscious.

[sneakypete]

I'm not exactly a Luddite, let's just say I am slow to embrace (or trust) the latest widgets.

@Smokin Joe

I have,and normally drive my modern 4x4 pu these days because I have been having health and strength/mobility issues,and it has ps,auto trans,and air-conditioning.

If my health were better,my normal daily ride would be my flathead 6 cylinder 1951 Ford business coupe. The modern pu is nice and comfortable,but it doesn't make me smile while driving down the road and it doesn't make me want to do a little "happy dance" when I walk out of the house and see it parked in the yard.

I recently found and bought a finned aluminum Knudsen high-compression head for it (ALMOST akin to finding a needle in a haystack these days) ,with the matching 3 carb intake. I already had 3 glass bowl Holley 1brl carbs for it. Took me over 3 years to find a head for sale,and this was with haunting the old race car,junk yards,and parts suppliers on a daily basis. Ironically enough,I found it on ebay,and immediately hit the buy it now button.

I had no trouble at all finding brand new high-compression heads for the 251 DeSoto flathead 6 engine I am putting in my 33 Dodge 4dr sedan,or the 230 engine in my 42 Dodge business coupe. You can buy them any day of the week by just picking up a phone. Everybody that bought a old Ford to hot rod back in the 50's bought one with a flathead V-8,though. Flathead V-8 high performance and dress up parts are as easy to find as it is finding that stuff for small block chevy's. Most people didn't even know that Ford HAD a flathead 6 as standard in some year cars,and had never heard of or seen one. Ironically enough,the flat 6 with a 1brl carb on the stock engine had more torque than the V-8,and would turn faster times in a drag race. The flathead V-8 with the stock 2brl carb only had 10 more hp than the single carb flat 6. Put a 2x1 or 3x1 intake on a flat 6,and it suddenly had more torque AND more horsepower than the V-8.

The flat 6 Fords were more popular for boat racing than the V-8's,though. Clay Smith was a 17 year old kid working in his father's machine shop when Henry Ford attended a race back in 47 or 48,and thought the kids boat seemed to be turning up a lot of RPM's,so he wandered down to the shore to talk with him about it. Come to find out this 17 year old had a flathead 6 Ford engine turning up 7,000 RPM,and not exploding. Ford asked him how he did this,the kid told him,and Ford gave him a consulting contract with Ford on the spot,sealed with a handshake. That was how the Clay Smith Camshaft Company came about. Henry Ford was so smart he realized he not only didn't know everything,but he even knew there were people out there smarter than him,and that he needed to hire these people where ever he found them.

Soon I hope to be smiling even wider as I tool down the road listening to the sweet,sweet sounds of a inline six that is cammed up,has 3 carbs and a high compression head,and is playing it's tunes through dual straight pipes with glass packs. I may never turn the radio on.

[bigheadfred]

@Smokin Joe

I have,and normally drive my modern 4x4 pu these days because I have been having health and strength/mobility issues,and it has ps,auto trans,and air-conditioning.

If my health were better,my normal daily ride would be my flathead 6 cylinder 1951 Ford business coupe. The modern pu is nice and comfortable,but it doesn't make me smile while riding down the road.

Just found and bought a finned aluminun Knudsen high-compression head for it,with the matching 3 carb intake. Soon I hope to be smiling even wider as I tool down the road listening to the sweet,sweet sounds of a inline six that is cammed up,has 3 carbs and a high compression head,and is playing it's tunes through dual straight pipes with glass packs. I may never turn the radio on.

I hope you get well and get it done. Let the good times roll.

[sneakypete]

I hope you get well and get it done. Let the good times roll.

@bigheadfred

As one Luddite to another,I thank you.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Bill Cipher

Me,too. ESPECIALLY since those "wander around to look for messes to clean up" jobs used to be called "starting positions". People like high school children who had never had a job could apply for and get one at minimum wage while having the luxury of having their parents pay their bills while they are learning about responsibility and what it takes to hold a job.

Not to mention when illiterate,uneducated,or handi-caped/old people that have no choice but to take those jobs have to deal with on a daily basis,so that when they are rolling in riches and shopping in stores,they can show those people a little compassion and consideration,

Jobs like that tend to make people more human later in life.

What do we get out of those freaking robots???

Just call me a Luddite if you want. I can handle it,and in cases like this,wear the badge with pride.

Meh, they can all be put to work stopping people from shoplifting. A robot cannot do that yet, and these self-checkout deals are prone to that sort of thing.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Naw,they do that to show you who is boss. They want you to see them as the power figure your mother was when you were a child. Actually,when it comes to stuff like this,they ain't actually doing ANY thinking. It's party a genetic survival trait that has been around as long as there has been men and women,since it also serves to make you as protective of them as you are your own mother. Women you are sleeping with can be given the boot with no thought the instant a prettier one comes along,but it's hard to give the boot to a woman who is part mother in your sub-conscious.

@sneakypete
Well that may be... But what they don't know is that my own mamma knows better than to get her hand between my plate and my face. She might even get away with it... but she knows better. Leave me be when I'm eating.

But I am wired different than most, seriously. I may have cheated some when I was early at it, figuring things out, but as a rule, once a woman is MY woman, I don't need no other. I do not recall a single time cheating on my woman... So whatever they are doing it for it ain't necessary.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think females steal food from our plates because they don't count the calories and they can freely cheat on their diets.  It's not more complicated than that.

[bigheadfred]

Meh, they can all be put to work stopping people from shoplifting. A robot cannot do that yet, and these self-checkout deals are prone to that sort of thing.

Stop shoplifting. Then we don't need a robot to tag you.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
 

But I am wired different than most, seriously. I may have cheated some when I was early at it, figuring things out, but as a rule, once a woman is MY woman, I don't need no other. I do not recall a single time cheating on my woman... So whatever they are doing it for it ain't necessary.

@roamer_1

Believe it or not,I am in complete agreement with you on this. Casual dating is one thing,but once you agree to live together or get married,you have made both real and implies promises,and promises are meant to be kept if you want to maintain your self-respect. If you can't get along with her or she starts playing that "no sex for you because you won't buy me a new whatever" game,tell her to clean her act up or hit the road,but don't start shopping around for a replacement while she is still there. Not if you want to keep your self-respect.

What she does is on her. If you catch her cheating,toss her ass out in the yard and be done with it so you can move on and find something real. If you have no self-respect for yourself,you can't expect her to respect you,and visa versa.

If you can't be honest on the family level,you have no honesty and you have no family. You are a shell of a human passing yourself off as a man. Or woman,as the case may be.

[sneakypete]

I think females steal food from our plates because they don't count the calories and they can freely cheat on their diets.  It's not more complicated than that.

@Cyber Liberty

There is a GREAT deal of truth in that one!

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Believe it or not,I am in complete agreement with you on this. Casual dating is one thing,but once you agree to live together or get married,you have made both real and implies promises,and promises are meant to be kept if you want to maintain your self-respect. If you can't get along with her or she starts playing that "no sex for you because you won't buy me a new whatever" game,tell her to clean her act up or hit the road,but don't start shopping around for a replacement while she is still there. Not if you want to keep your self-respect.

What she does is on her. If you catch her cheating,toss her ass out in the yard and be done with it so you can move on and find something real. If you have no self-respect for yourself,you can't expect her to respect you,and visa versa.

If you can't be honest on the family level,you have no honesty and you have no family. You are a shell of a human passing yourself off as a man. Or woman,as the case may be.

That's right.
 

[bigheadfred]

I want you all to know this.

I have a high regard for you all. Because these side conversations prove, PROVE, that there is that ineffable quality in people that makes them human. That makes you human.

AI is here. Robots are here.

Dealing with them is something we are all going to have to do. Whether at work, the store, or at home. They are everywhere.

Keep being human. Keep being people. Pass it along.

They have PROVEN that big social media and "smart" devices F**K people up. At what point do you kick that cheating spying no good POS down the road? After it has destroyed your life?

A very good example of what I am trying to say has been said in the last posts.

Thank you.

[Sanguine]

@Cyber Liberty

There is a GREAT deal of truth in that one!

Maybe even a kernel.

[bigheadfred]

Maybe even a kernel.

major to kernal generally speaking of private matters

[Smokin Joe]

@roamer_1

Believe it or not,I am in complete agreement with you on this. Casual dating is one thing,but once you agree to live together or get married,you have made both real and implies promises,and promises are meant to be kept if you want to maintain your self-respect. If you can't get along with her or she starts playing that "no sex for you because you won't buy me a new whatever" game,tell her to clean her act up or hit the road,but don't start shopping around for a replacement while she is still there. Not if you want to keep your self-respect.

What she does is on her. If you catch her cheating,toss her ass out in the yard and be done with it so you can move on and find something real. If you have no self-respect for yourself,you can't expect her to respect you,and visa versa.

If you can't be honest on the family level,you have no honesty and you have no family. You are a shell of a human passing yourself off as a man. Or woman,as the case may be.

I am in solid agreement with all of that.

[bigheadfred]

 

[bigheadfred]

Of all the things sade there only is that .

Speak it.

Of all the things said there only is that,
.

Speak it.


I do. Every day. Anf there is a butterfly. No. There isn't any reply. They can't.


They can't speak the Word

[bigheadfred]

Watch Elon Musk's Neuralink presentation - YouTube


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[bigheadfred]

 https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-unveils-neuralink-brain-computer-interface-wants-to-have-human-trials-in-2020

Elon Musk Wants To Connect Human Brains Directly To Computers Next Year

You need Elon Musk’s new invention like you need a hole in your head.

Late Tuesday night, the Tesla and SpaceX founder unwrapped new details on work that would allow humans to transmit data straight from their brains to their computers. Musk’s project, called Neuralink, plans to start clinical trials in humans by the end of 2020.

The humans who choose to embed Neuralink wires in their brains next year should expect to have four small holes drilled into their head. Neuralink will thread wires into the brain and patch the skull holes with a computer chip, which can connect wirelessly to an iPhone app. The company touted its innovation around those threads as a big breakthrough toward a functional brain-computer interface.

[sneakypete]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-unveils-neuralink-brain-computer-interface-wants-to-have-human-trials-in-2020

Elon Musk Wants To Connect Human Brains Directly To Computers Next Year

You need Elon Musk’s new invention like you need a hole in your head.

Late Tuesday night, the Tesla and SpaceX founder unwrapped new details on work that would allow humans to transmit data straight from their brains to their computers. Musk’s project, called Neuralink, plans to start clinical trials in humans by the end of 2020.

The humans who choose to embed Neuralink wires in their brains next year should expect to have four small holes drilled into their head. Neuralink will thread wires into the brain and patch the skull holes with a computer chip, which can connect wirelessly to an iPhone app. The company touted its innovation around those threads as a big breakthrough toward a functional brain-computer interface.

@bigheadfred

What could possibly go wrong with a plan like that?

[bigheadfred]

@bigheadfred

What could possibly go wrong with a plan like that?

There are millions of people out there with a lot of empty space in their heads. They could turn zombies into--zombies.

Think of the fun you could have if you were walking down the street one day and everybody stops and stares at you...

[Smokin Joe]

There are millions of people out there with a lot of empty space in their heads. They could turn zombies into--zombies.

Think of the fun you could have if you were walking down the street one day and everybody stops and stares at you...

Actually, I was thinking what an EMP could do for the unenhanced folks who refused to get wired in...something like the ending of Surrogates....only it wouldn't be machines laying on the sidewalk.

[roamer_1]

Actually, I was thinking what an EMP could do for the unenhanced folks who refused to get wired in...something like the ending of Surrogates....only it wouldn't be machines laying on the sidewalk.

There may be something to that in the prophecy, @Smokin Joe ... About the low being made high, and the high being brought low...

Nothing says low like a hillbilly growing his own way up in the sticks...
And an EMP would do little or nothing to him... He might not even know it happened...
But he's a prince next time he gets to town, because folks would need to know what he knows if they are going to survive at all.

[Smokin Joe]

There may be something to that in the prophecy, @Smokin Joe ... About the low being made high, and the high being brought low...

Nothing says low like a hillbilly growing his own way up in the sticks...
And an EMP would do little or nothing to him... He might not even know it happened...
But he's a prince next time he gets to town, because folks would need to know what he knows if they are going to survive at all.

It isn't just that @roamer_1 , it's the idea that if you have your brain wired to control other, outside objects, the neural centers tapped to control those objects would be vulnerable to severe electrical discharges, or even induced current during an EMP. In short, those centers could be fried as a result of being wired in if an EMP were to occur. I would think proximity to any fast changing magnetic field would cause problems, too.

So, the high and mighty could participate in a group zot that would reduce them to slackjawed droolers in a millesecond.

That's not to mention the lack of inherent ability to operate their world on 'manual' even if they weren't debilitated otherwise.

I've noticed kids who were raised with a dishwasher (not as the dishwasher, if you get my drift), don't have a clue how to wash dishes in a sink. That not only dooms them to cases of acute gastroenteritis and the screaming yellow zonkers, but is indicative of how fundamentally reliant they are on technology.

[Cyber Liberty]

Actually, I was thinking what an EMP could do for the unenhanced folks who refused to get wired in...something like the ending of Surrogates....only it wouldn't be machines laying on the sidewalk.

"In a land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King,"

[roamer_1]

It isn't just that @roamer_1 , it's the idea that if you have your brain wired to control other, outside objects, the neural centers tapped to control those objects would be vulnerable to severe electrical discharges, or even induced current during an EMP. In short, those centers could be fried as a result of being wired in if an EMP were to occur. I would think proximity to any fast changing magnetic field would cause problems, too.

So, the high and mighty could participate in a group zot that would reduce them to slackjawed droolers in a millesecond.

@Smokin Joe
Hold on now... you're talking about implants and such, right? Not natural 'wiring'... synapses and such?

That's not to mention the lack of inherent ability to operate their world on 'manual' even if they weren't debilitated otherwise.

I've noticed kids who were raised with a dishwasher (not as the dishwasher, if you get my drift), don't have a clue how to wash dishes in a sink. That not only dooms them to cases of acute gastroenteritis and the screaming yellow zonkers, but is indicative of how fundamentally reliant they are on technology.

I heard that. My elder boy is goin all suburban... WON'T bring his kids out to the ranch to do chores, which my mother would greatly appreciate, and what would do them kids more good than anything in the world... What an awful mistake, I think.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

It isn't just that @roamer_1 , it's the idea that if you have your brain wired to control other, outside objects, the neural centers tapped to control those objects would be vulnerable to severe electrical discharges, or even induced current during an EMP. In short, those centers could be fried as a result of being wired in if an EMP were to occur. I would think proximity to any fast changing magnetic field would cause problems, too.

So, the high and mighty could participate in a group zot that would reduce them to slackjawed droolers in a millesecond.

That's not to mention the lack of inherent ability to operate their world on 'manual' even if they weren't debilitated otherwise.

I've noticed kids who were raised with a dishwasher (not as the dishwasher, if you get my drift), don't have a clue how to wash dishes in a sink. That not only dooms them to cases of acute gastroenteritis and the screaming yellow zonkers, but is indicative of how fundamentally reliant they are on technology.

First "real" book I ever read.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe
Hold on now... you're talking about implants and such, right? Not natural 'wiring'... synapses and such?

Yep. I see that as the next step.

I heard that. My elder boy is goin all suburban... WON'T bring his kids out to the ranch to do chores, which my mother would greatly appreciate, and what would do them kids more good than anything in the world... What an awful mistake, I think.

It's funny how people whine about kids not having a 'work ethic', and then won't let them do anything until they are 16 or 18.
We were driving tractor well before ten, (If you weren't, your friends wondered what was wrong with you), often took our own boats out fishing (I found three by the time I was out of high school, two wooden skiffs and one jon boat, put the ads in the papers of record (both counties) and they weren't claimed, kept one, sold one, and gave the first skiff to my grand father), and generally were pretty competent at most anything that might come up. I was a full fledged volunteer fireman and had completed my EMT by my 18th birthday.
Kids nowadays don't have those skill sets, except in rare instances. and now, by the time kids can get into it, they are into something else, for the most part.  I think that's a big mistake. You learn to love work young, the feeling of accomplishment, the feeling of self-reliance, and the lack of fear that brings are good for any kid.
 

[sneakypete]

@Smokin Joe
Hold on now... you're talking about implants and such, right? Not natural 'wiring'... synapses and such?

I heard that. My elder boy is goin all suburban... WON'T bring his kids out to the ranch to do chores, which my mother would greatly appreciate, and what would do them kids more good than anything in the world... What an awful mistake, I think.

@roamer_1

I am in 100 percent agreement with the basic assumption that manual labor is very definitely a GOOD thing for both children and adults. Not as a way of life,mind you. Manual laborers are one step away from welfare and AFDC all their lives,but teach a child the value of "sweat equity" when it comes to building something,and it is a lesson he or she will remember with fondness all their lives. It's creation on a personal level,and the natural "chemical rush" you get when the job is complete and done right,combined with how your appetite makes the food taste better and makes you sleep better,is something beyond monetary value.

Yeah,city people get "sweat equity" in their high-tech gyms,but at the end of the day all they have is sweaty clothes to show for their efforts. Compared to painting a house or building a fence,that is nothing.

PLUS,jobs like that allow the adults to interact with the children to teach them how to operate tools,plan jobs,and build things. You will NEVER get that at a gym.

Just make sure you confiscate their I-Pods when they show up,or the little bastids will disappear on you.

[sneakypete]

Kids nowadays don't have those skill sets, except in rare instances. and now, by the time kids can get into it, they are into something else, for the most part.  I think that's a big mistake. You learn to love work young, the feeling of accomplishment, the feeling of self-reliance, and the lack of fear that brings are good for any kid.

@Smokin Joe

Seems like the Boy Scouts are useless now as anything other than a social club.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

I am in 100 percent agreement with the basic assumption that manual labor is very definitely a GOOD thing for both children and adults. Not as a way of life,mind you. Manual laborers are one step away from welfare and AFDC all their lives,but teach a child the value of "sweat equity" when it comes to building something,and it is a lesson he or she will remember with fondness all their lives. It's creation on a personal level,and the natural "chemical rush" you get when the job is complete and done right,combined with how your appetite makes the food taste better and makes you sleep better,is something beyond monetary value.

Yeah,city people get "sweat equity" in their high-tech gyms,but at the end of the day all they have is sweaty clothes to show for their efforts. Compared to painting a house or building a fence,that is nothing.

PLUS,jobs like that allow the adults to interact with the children to teach them how to operate tools,plan jobs,and build things. You will NEVER get that at a gym.

Just make sure you confiscate their I-Pods when they show up,or the little bastids will disappear on you.

That's all right, @sneakypete
But there is something more than just learning the value of work - I mean there is something more than that on the farm. Something intrinsic to life... The interaction with critters, understanding how they are, understanding that your food means one of them has to die. Having the responsibility to make sure they have food and water, or they die.

It is something visceral, something deeply real... I can't explain it.

I would submit that every person should have to spend time on a farm, spend time in MIL or LE, and spend time in some sort of church or community outreach toward the sick or poor...

It is important to know the bloody end of the knife, as it were, and the need for mercy when it is due. Things I cannot understand how a hoomin bean can be called fully equipped without.

[roamer_1]

Yep. I see that as the next step.

@Smokin Joe
Ah.... yep. I see where you are going.

It's funny how people whine about kids not having a 'work ethic', and then won't let them do anything until they are 16 or 18.
We were driving tractor well before ten, (If you weren't, your friends wondered what was wrong with you), often took our own boats out fishing (I found three by the time I was out of high school, two wooden skiffs and one jon boat, put the ads in the papers of record (both counties) and they weren't claimed, kept one, sold one, and gave the first skiff to my grand father), and generally were pretty competent at most anything that might come up. I was a full fledged volunteer fireman and had completed my EMT by my 18th birthday.
Kids nowadays don't have those skill sets, except in rare instances. and now, by the time kids can get into it, they are into something else, for the most part.  I think that's a big mistake. You learn to love work young, the feeling of accomplishment, the feeling of self-reliance, and the lack of fear that brings are good for any kid.

Yep. That's all right. Me too - I came late to the west. About 6th grade. Quite a difference coming from urban Chicago. In one summer I went from knowing nothing much to caring for chickens, cows, and horses, driving tractors and pickups and hay trucks... backing up trailers... learned how to shoot and trap as well as my friends in the course of a year or so... And knocked my first deer in the noggin the next season. And always chores. Just part of living.

It was a helluva learning curve, but the trade off, I soon found, was liberty... Responsibility leads to liberty... And once found, liberty is not something one gives up.

[bigheadfred]

Actually, I was thinking what an EMP could do for the unenhanced folks who refused to get wired in...something like the ending of Surrogates....only it wouldn't be machines laying on the sidewalk.

Yeah, it would still be machines laying on the sidewalk.

[bigheadfred]

First "real" book I ever read.

I've read most of his books. But I don't recall that one. Have to look it up on Kindle.

[bigheadfred]

@Smokin Joe
Ah.... yep. I see where you are going.

Yep. That's all right. Me too - I came late to the west. About 6th grade. Quite a difference coming from urban Chicago. In one summer I went from knowing nothing much to caring for chickens, cows, and horses, driving tractors and pickups and hay trucks... backing up trailers... learned how to shoot and trap as well as my friends in the course of a year or so... And knocked my first deer in the noggin the next season. And always chores. Just part of living.

It was a helluva learning curve, but the trade off, I soon found, was liberty... Responsibility leads to liberty... And once found, liberty is not something one gives up.

Most people don't and won't ever understand that.  They'll be lining up and waiting days in advance to get augmentations.

But this has been talked about before. You are only going to get the quality of tech that you can afford.

[bigheadfred]

With $1 Billion From Microsoft, an A.I. Lab Wants to Mimic the Brain

By Cade Metz

    July 22, 2019

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwibltHzrszjAhUBoZ4KHZaWBOIQFjADegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2019%2F07%2F22%2Ftechnology%2Fopen-ai-microsoft.html&usg=AOvVaw084zPzE_1iQkMika0ZsIrw

SAN FRANCISCO — As the waitress approached the table, Sam Altman held up his phone. That made it easier to see the dollar amount typed into an investment contract he had spent the last 30 days negotiating with Microsoft.

“$1,000,000,000,” it read.

The investment from Microsoft, signed early this month and announced on Monday, signals a new direction for Mr. Altman’s research lab.

In March, Mr. Altman stepped down from his daily duties as the head of Y Combinator, the start-up “accelerator” that catapulted him into the Silicon Valley elite. Now, at 34, he is the chief executive of OpenAI, the artificial intelligence lab he helped create in 2015 with Elon Musk, the billionaire chief executive of the electric carmaker Tesla.

Mr. Musk left the lab last year to concentrate on his own A.I. ambitions at Tesla. Since then, Mr. Altman has remade OpenAI, founded as a nonprofit, into a for-profit company so it could more aggressively pursue financing. Now he has landed a marquee investor to help it chase an outrageously lofty goal.
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He and his team of researchers hope to build artificial general intelligence, or A.G.I., a machine that can do anything the human brain can do.

A.G.I. still has a whiff of science fiction. But in their agreement, Microsoft and OpenAI discuss the possibility with the same matter-of-fact language they might apply to any other technology they hope to build, whether it’s a cloud-computing service or a new kind of robotic arm.

“My goal in running OpenAI is to successfully create broadly beneficial A.G.I.,” Mr. Altman said in a recent interview. “And this partnership is the most important milestone so far on that path.”

In recent years, a small but fervent community of artificial intelligence researchers have set their sights on A.G.I., and they are backed by some of the wealthiest companies in the world. DeepMind, a top lab owned by Google’s parent company, says it is chasing the same goal.

[bigheadfred]

How A.I. Could Be Weaponized to Spread Disinformation

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjc8O2Or8zjAhUBoZ4KHZaWBOIQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2Finteractive%2F2019%2F06%2F07%2Ftechnology%2Fai-text-disinformation.html&usg=AOvVaw0eblyhz0ogAwiKT6_4rGtH

By CADE METZ and SCOTT BLUMENTHAL JUNE 7, 2019

In 2017, an online disinformation campaign spread against the “White Helmets,” claiming that the group of aid volunteers was serving as an arm of Western governments to sow unrest in Syria.

This false information was convincing. But the Russian organization behind the campaign ultimately gave itself away because it repeated the same text across many different fake news sites.

Now, researchers at the world’s top artificial intelligence labs are honing technology that can mimic how humans write, which could potentially help disinformation campaigns go undetected by generating huge amounts of subtly different messages.

One of the statements below is an example from the disinformation campaign. A.I. technology created the other. Guess which one is A.I.:

The White Helmets alleged involvement in organ, child trafficking and staged events in Syria.

The White Helmets secretly videotaped the execution of a man and his 3 year old daughter in Aleppo, Syria.

Tech giants like Facebook and governments around the world are struggling to deal with disinformation, from misleading posts about vaccines to incitement of sectarian violence. As artificial intelligence becomes more powerful, experts worry that disinformation generated by A.I. could make an already complex problem bigger and even more difficult to solve.

In recent months, two prominent labs — OpenAI in San Francisco and the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence in Seattle — have built particularly powerful examples of this technology. Both have warned that it could become increasingly dangerous.