They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot

[Bill Cipher]

So are you saying that sentience is observable effect of consciousness manifesting in three dimensions?

I don’t think so.  I’m saying sentience - and consciousness - are the results of purely materialistic systems. 

[roamer_1]

I don’t think so.  I’m saying sentience - and consciousness - are the results of purely materialistic systems.

I crap, therefore I am?

 

[bigheadfred]

I don’t think so.  I’m saying sentience - and consciousness - are the results of purely materialistic systems.

So sentience and consciousness are confined and defined as the result of chemical reactions, or some other reaction to stimuli in an object and ends when that effect is no longer observable? If so, then any object can be sentient as long as it is observable to the point it fits the rule or definition of such within the human experience? Not counted as being human, but sentient all the same.

I believe we still have to come up with an untainted definition of sentience, simply because any future contact with another sentient species may occur by our actions, and failure to recognize that sentience could have serious ramifications for them and possibly us.

@Smokin Joe

I read a satirical article back in the 90's in OMNI magazine.

Some scientists brought a "save the whales" activist into a lab. Sat him in a chair and told him they had been able to translate whalesong into English. He got very excited as they began playing some whalesong they had recorded. Then came the translation.

Whale 1: Whatta you wanna do?
Whale 2: I don't know. Whatta you want to do?
Whale 1: I dont know...Hey! Check out the fins on that one!

At this point the activist has the realization: OMG! Whales ARE as intelligent as people. Then took up the chant. Kill the whales...kill the whales...

[bigheadfred]

I crap, therefore I am?

 

Shit happens is prolly more in the chaos theory of things.

[Bill Cipher]

So sentience and consciousness are confined and defined as the result of chemical reactions, or some other reaction to stimuli in an object and ends when that effect is no longer observable? If so, then any object can be sentient as long as it is observable to the point it fits the rule or definition of such within the human experience? Not counted as being human, but sentient all the same.
 @Smokin Joe

I read a satirical article back in the 90's in OMNI magazine.

Some scientists brought a "save the whales" activist into a lab. Sat him in a chair and told him they had been able to whalesong into English. He got very excited as they began playing some whalesong they had recorded. Then came the translation.

Whale 1: Whatta you wanna do?
Whale 2: I don't know. Whatta you want to do?
Whale 1: I dont know...Hey! Check out the fins on that one!

At this point the activist has the realization: OMG! Whales ARE as intelligent as people. Then took up the chant. Kill the whales...kill the whales...

I haven’t insulted you or your peculiar theories, why are you insulting me?

[Bill Cipher]

I crap, therefore I am?

 

You are a physical system, and all that you are arises from that physical system. 

[bigheadfred]

I haven’t insulted you or your peculiar theories, why are you insulting me?

Where is the insult? That isn't my intention at all.

[roamer_1]

You are a physical system, and all that you are arises from that physical system.

Naw. I am a spirit, a soul, confined and constrained (in the objective sense, not as a prisoner) - Temporally contained within a physical system (see meat-sack).

[Cyber Liberty]

Where is the insult? That isn't my intention at all.

I didn't see an insult in there, accidental or otherwise.

[bigheadfred]

Before I begin again in my assertion that we live in a fascist state I want to say this:

My intent in posting this thread is to present to members and viewers some of the prevailing thought, pro or con, to a technology that is "in the works", and some of the science, and psychology, that surrounds this topic.

Please post any articles, opinions, or rants.

My opinions are my own. Dissent or agreement are most welcomed. Anyone who thinks my opinions are a personal attack on their belief system, ideology, or thoughts, has or will not be intended on my part. If you disagree then please state your case. If you agree then please state your case.

As with any other thread, especially a thread of any duration, it will tend to wander.

I think most of the articles or videos I have posted are relevant to the topic.

I would encourage any of you out there to do the same. Meaning post material relevant.

I personally apologize to member @Bill Cipher for anything I posted that they considered insulting. I personally apologize to Any ruling authority on this forum that any material presented here (may) have caused personal harm.

@mystery-ak @Cyber Liberty @Bill Cipher

[bigheadfred]

I'm going to post one article concerning fascism. I was going to do a timeline with articles from 9/11 to the present.

Here is one of the latest. The reporter keeps trying to paint Trump as a fascist.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/2/14/18221913/fascism-warning-madeleine-albright-book-trump

Fascism: a warning from Madeleine Albright

The former secretary of state is sounding the alarm about rising fascism around the world — and in America.

I try to argue that fascism is not an ideology; it’s a process for taking and holding power...

The important thing is that fascists aren’t actually trying to solve problems; they’re invested in exacerbating problems and deepening the divisions that result from them

Identity is fine, but if my identity makes me hate your identity, then it becomes very dangerous and it falls into hypernationalism. Suddenly, groups are pitted against each other or scapegoated and all of political life becomes tribalized conflict. And we can see this happening in a number of places. Viktor Orbán’s embrace of ethnic purity in Hungary is a good example of this.

The other major factor is technology, which has incredible advantages, but it’s also desegregated voices and made it harder to take political action because individuals are sucked into echo chambers. Weirdly enough, this has managed to make us more tribal and more fragmented at the same time.

Most of you can either recognize the factors leading this country from invisible fascism to it being outright fact.

[bigheadfred]

Moving on.

I think more like a quantum
Buddhist, in that there is a universal proto-conscious mind which we
access, and can influence us. But it actually exists at the
funda-mental level of the universe, at the Planck scale.

Quantum Consciousness _ And its Nature In Microtubules. Dr. Stuart Hameroff


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[bigheadfred]

There is a video coming out. Third Eye Spies.

This video gives insight into that video.


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[bigheadfred]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Targ

Russell Targ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project

Stargate Project

The CIA runs an operation for 20 years on psychic spying, or remote viewing and when it is exposed to the public they abandon it?

uh huh

Spies don't stop spying.

[bigheadfred]

Now I need to ask this question.

For what purpose would you ever need a human like sentient robot?

[Cyber Liberty]

Now I need to ask this question.

For what purpose would you ever need a human like sentient robot?

That's easy...look where the most robotic/AI advances have been lately, in Japan.  I want to say the purpose could be...Bordellos.

[bigheadfred]

That's easy...look where the most robotic/AI advances have been lately, in Japan.  I want to say the purpose could be...Bordellos.

I don't think a robot needs to be sentient if it is there to only serve one purpose.

IMO, the Japanese are heading down a dead end road.

They may serve as a bellwether for the rest of the world in this respect: When the master becomes the slave.

[bigheadfred]

Dopamine.

Billions of digital drug addicts. Right now.

Sentient robots.

Are you still human?

For a little while longer.

[bigheadfred]

Using scientific methods they have proven that people are reducing themselves to little more than reflections of Pavlov's dog.

You get a Dopamine rush when you connect with your device.

I would post some stats on how many times a day people connect with an electronic device. I don't have a cellphone. I do have two computers and a tablet. Am I an addict? Infrequent user for sure. But I don't freak out if the internet goes down.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2018/04/13/digital-addiction-a-recipe-for-isolation-depression-and-anxiety/

Digital Addiction: A Recipe For Isolation, Depression And Anxiety

   The end result of the constant dopamine stimulation from our devices leaves us addicted and curious,
    the price for staying connected means that we lose the “human” connection

Smartphones have clearly become an indispensable part of our lives and society, keeping us connected and aware of minute-to-minute breaking news, weather systems, even changes in marital status of pop icons and celebrities.Part of this “convenience” in allowing us to remain connected, are the ever-present alerts, pings and rings that identify an incoming text, email or breaking news story. The end result of the constant dopamine stimulation from our devices leaves us addicted and curious, and unable to disregard incoming texts and emails.

As technology continues to tighten its grip on our lives, the price for staying connected means that we lose the “human” connection —our voices, touch, and facial expressions.  So, when we reach for our smartphones, and think we are staying connected, we are actually drifting apart.

The end result of this electronic urge leads to a preoccupation with, and need to reinforce this electronic high.

[bigheadfred]

Interlube. 


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[bigheadfred]

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,351604.msg1918355.html#msg1918355


No, the Pentagon Is Not Working on Killer Robots—Yet

I meant to add this thread earlier but I was busy playing with my joystick.

Hat tip to  @rangerrebew

[bigheadfred]

Greg Braden.

[GourmetDan]

doink

[bigheadfred]

doink

parse
nips

Thank you for your erudition.

Peace out.

[GourmetDan]

parse
nips

Thank you for your erudition.

Peace out.

A doink is like a ping... except I'm tone-deaf...

[bigheadfred]

The Death of Materialism


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[bigheadfred]

Qualia

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/

[bigheadfred]

So they are finding out that consciousness lies in or at the quantum level.

It isn't some belief a person has developed.

Sentience in a machine isn't something desirable or should even be attempted.

A sentient robot could have some use. A companion. An astronaut. A weapon.

The weapon comes first.

[roamer_1]

consciousness lies

That's right.

[bigheadfred]

That's right.

What it means is that everyone is right.

[roamer_1]

What it means is that everyone is right.

Or everyone is wrong.
You choose.

[bigheadfred]

Or everyone is wrong.
You choose.

More people on this planet have cell phones than toilets. Five billion cellphones. That is good for those who don't have toilets. They don't have to worry about dropping their cell phone in one.

Everyone's cat is alive in their world. But it is dead in yours.

Here is the problem. They are soon going to have the technology to get people on the same page. They will have people in a hivemind who all believe in the same cat and that cat is alive. And your cat is dead.

[roamer_1]

More people on this planet have cell phones than toilets. Five billion cellphones. That is good for those who don't have toilets. They don't have to worry about dropping their cell phone in one.

Everyone's cat is alive in their world. But it is dead in yours.

Here is the problem. They are soon going to have the technology to get people on the same page. They will have people in a hivemind who all believe in the same cat and that cat is alive. And your cat is dead.

Careful now Schroedinger, Just because you can't see my cat doesn't mean that my cat is dead.
In the end, my cat will win. I read the Book. I know how it ends.

Because my cat is a dog, and he hates cats.
Here kitty kitty....

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I would gladly sacrifice a human to save a really cool robot. My roomba is awesome.

[bigheadfred]

Careful now Schroedinger, Just because you can't see my cat doesn't mean that my cat is dead.
In the end, my cat will win. I read the Book. I know how it ends.

Because my cat is a dog, and he hates cats.
Here kitty kitty....

I know. Your cat/dog wins. That doesn't mean you don't suffer first.

[bigheadfred]

I would gladly sacrifice a human to save a really cool robot. My roomba is awesome.

I want my sucking thing! GIVE ME MY SUCKING THING!

[bigheadfred]

Artificial Intelligence: it will kill us | Jay Tuck | TEDxHamburgSalon


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This guy gives a pretty good explanation why you can't just "unplug" AI.

[roamer_1]

I know. Your cat/dog wins. That doesn't mean you don't suffer first.

Read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankel. It will blow your mind.
We are here to suffer. It is suffering that matters, not happiness.
Which is why my cat wins.

[bigheadfred]

Read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankel. It will blow your mind.
We are here to suffer. It is suffering that matters, not happiness.
Which is why my cat wins.

Can I read Isaiah instead?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

FedEx will trial autonomous delivery robots this summer

https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/27/fedex-sameday-bot-autonomous-robot-deliveries/

 

I'll believe this when I see it.

[bigheadfred]

FedEx will trial autonomous delivery robots this summer

https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/27/fedex-sameday-bot-autonomous-robot-deliveries/

 

I'll believe this when I see it.

 The company already has AutoZone, Pizza Hut, Target and Walmart on board for initial testing.

A pizza delivery robot. Damn thing will have to have its own lane.

[roamer_1]

Can I read Isaiah instead?

Howabout both?

[bigheadfred]

Howabout both?

I'm looking to see if I can find a cheap, or free, copy.

[bigheadfred]

OneWeb is about to launch the first of more than 600 internet satellites

https://qz.com/1560552/oneweb-launches-internet-satellites/

A private firm will launch the initial six of a planned 640 satellites later today (Feb. 27). If successful, these spacecraft could be the foundation of the first large-scale internet network in low-Earth orbit.

OneWeb’s satellites will orbit hundreds of miles above the Earth, providing data connections to mobile phones, laptops and tablets through ground terminals marketed by the company, which it expects to bring online as soon as 2020.

OneWeb calls its project “the first 5G-ready network in space,” which captures the trend that backers believe make this time different.

[roamer_1]

I'm looking to see if I can find a cheap, or free, copy.

Order it out of the library. Costs nothing.

[roamer_1]

OneWeb calls its project “the first 5G-ready network in space,” which captures the trend that backers believe make this time different.

Ugh. Sat latency sucks for internet.

[bigheadfred]

Ugh. Sat latency sucks for internet.

This is the new web. Decreased latency.

[roamer_1]

This is the new web. Decreased latency.

Yeah right. It still has to fly 200 miles by radio up and 200 miles by radio down. For_every_packet, AND wait for replies.

That is latency any way you look at it.

[bigheadfred]

Yeah right. It still has to fly 200 miles by radio up and 200 miles by radio down. For_every_packet, AND wait for replies.

That is latency any way you look at it.

Though satellite-based phone and internet services have developed reputations for offering slower service than terrestrial alternatives, the FCC recently approved next-generation satellite networks that promise improved performance. Now one of the approved providers, LeoSat Networks, says that it will offer 5G cellular-rivaling low latency service that could be used either as a premium 5G alternative or as a backbone for international commercial 5G services.

Next-generation 5G cellular service promises to improve at least four dimensions of telecommunications performance, but two — increased bandwidth and ultra-low latency, or responsiveness — are the technology’s biggest selling points. Compared with 4G networks, 5G will deliver between 10 to 100 times the data speeds, and cut latency from double-digit milliseconds or longer to as little as a single millisecond, eliminating perceptible lag.

It may not seem like much to you, but think about all the other people it would effect. @Sanguine  and @QueenCatofAragon say they have slow connections. Just think of how much a little more connection speed could change their lives.

[thackney]

It may not seem like much to you, but think about all the other people it would effect. @Sanguine  and @QueenCatofAragon say they have slow connections. Just think of how much a little more connection speed could change their lives.

Include me in that group.  Our home internet is via satellite.