They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot

[thackney]

I can't remember that. I do remember her always yelling at us grand kids to stay the hell out of the Gravy Train.

She had to tell y'all that?

[bigheadfred]

She had to tell y'all that?

Thank you for this. It brings up, or into, the definition of consciousness.

Are you going to eat that? As an affirmation.

Are you going to eat that? As a condemnation.

What is it that makes you, you?

The long Wikipedia article:

Consciousness - Wikipedia

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

A researcher's POV:

The real problem

https://aeon.co/essays/the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-is-a-distraction-from-the-real-one

[Cyber Liberty]

Thank you for this. It brings up, or into, the definition of consciousness.

Are you going to eat that? As an affirmation.

Are you going to eat that? As a condemnation.

What is it that makes you, you?

The long Wikipedia article:

Consciousness - Wikipedia

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

A researcher's POV:

The real problem

https://aeon.co/essays/the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-is-a-distraction-from-the-real-one

I still won't eat dog, like the previous Preezy.

[bigheadfred]

I still won't eat dog, like the previous Preezy.

My bro says dog is ok as long as it is well done. Says it is better than rat on a stick.

[roamer_1]

My bro says dog is ok as long as it is well done. Says it is better than rat on a stick.

I've had a lot of coyote. It's good eating.

[Cyber Liberty]

My bro says dog is ok as long as it is well done. Says it is better than rat on a stick.

Obastard said in his crappy book that dog is more tender than snake.   

I ate dog, and it was tough.  I also ate snake and it was tougher.

[Cyber Liberty]

I've had a lot of coyote. It's good eating.

Did you need to use a pressure cooker for that?

[bigheadfred]

I've had a lot of coyote. It's good eating.

Grain fed or free range?

[roamer_1]

Did you need to use a pressure cooker for that?

Nope. Soak it in beer for a few hours, shove it on a stick and leave it over a fire for a while...
Like all wild game, you can't over cook it., Just enough or it will get tough. shoot, even venison is that way. 

[roamer_1]

Grain fed or free range?

Beats me. They was in my traps, so I ate em.
No more. Not kosher. Dunno if I could survive being a kosher trapper.

[Cyber Liberty]

Nope. Soak it in beer for a few hours, shove it on a stick and leave it over a fire for a while...
Like all wild game, you can't over cook it., Just enough or it will get tough. shoot, even venison is that way. 

Yote on a Spit!

[roamer_1]

Yote on a Spit!

I've ate just about everything in these woods, just that way. There ain't hardly a thing you could mention that lives up here that I ain't ate at least a time or two.

[Bigun]

I probably have unknowingly eaten dog incorporated in a meal aboard a workboat in the Persian Gulf years ago run by Philipinos and it didn't kill me.

Wouldn't choose it if it were a menu item.
 

[bigheadfred]

Nope. Soak it in beer for a few hours, shove it on a stick and leave it over a fire for a while...
Like all wild game, you can't over cook it., Just enough or it will get tough. shoot, even venison is that way. 

I've had pronghorn antelope where there was nothing you could do to it to make it edible. The best antelope are the ones feeding around fields in the early midmorn. Catch them completely unaware, shoot them in the head, get the hide off ASAP, then cooled down, ASAP. A startled antelope is instantly infused with adrenaline. If you let it get to running then let it run and try again another day.

[Cyber Liberty]

I've ate just about everything in these woods, just that way. There ain't hardly a thing you could mention that lives up here that I ain't ate at least a time or two.

Escargot?   

[GtHawk]

A pocketful was a nice snack when one was out adventuring around their ranch. A lot less greasy than a pocketful of tater tots, too.

Can't say I ever tried the gravy train, didn't know anyone that bought it, but those little dog milk bone biscuits were pretty good, cleaned your teeth too.

[roamer_1]

Can't say I ever tried the gravy train, didn't know anyone that bought it, but those little dog milk bone biscuits were pretty good, cleaned your teeth too.

I like the ones they give out at the bank. Except the green ones. Chewy don't like em either. 

[roamer_1]

Escargot?   

Now, we ain't got much for snails. Do beetle larvae count? We've got some big as your thumb that you can find in rotted stumps... You can usually find a mess of em... enough to cover the bottom of a bush pot... Fry em up in there with some butter... Mighty fine.

[bigheadfred]

I like the ones they give out at the bank. Except the green ones. Chewy don't like em either. 

The green ones are made of people.

[roamer_1]

The green ones are made of people.

Well they taste like ass.

[Smokin Joe]

Well they taste like ass.

Seriously? You didn't think they'd use the prime cuts, did you?

[roamer_1]

Seriously? You didn't think they'd use the prime cuts, did you?

Well, mule, on the other hand... Does not taste like ass.
Go figger. 

[Smokin Joe]

Well, mule, on the other hand... Does not taste like ass.
Go figger. 

That's because it's only half ass.

[bigheadfred]

AR Will Spark the Next Big Tech Platform—Call It Mirrorworld

https://www.wired.com/story/mirrorworld-ar-next-big-tech-platform/

Fairly long article. interesting to me, though.

[roamer_1]

That's because it's only half ass.

Might explain why I like it. 

[bigheadfred]

There was an experiment done way back where they set up a shielded darkroom, added the appropriate detectors and or measuring device(s). Then they had one of the best remote viewers view the target. At the moment the remote viewer said he was at the target the instruments detected photons where there shouldn't have been any. When the viewer stopped, the photons were no longer detected.

There is other science out there doing much the same. This video is about a set of experiments to see if a person could influence photons by "thinking" about them.


Sorry...

[bigheadfred]

What will be the test to determine sentience and/or consciousness in an AI/robot?

"I think, therefore I am" isn't going to cut it.

[bigheadfred]

“Freedom requires truth, and so to smash freedom you must smash truth”

You live in a fascist state people. But not to worry.

We, you, me--us are about to live under THE NEW TOTALITARIANISM.

[bigheadfred]

This is how it really got going.

9\11 was the lynchpin. Whether you believe it was an outside act of terrorism, or an inside job, it brought us The Patriot Act, TSA, Homeland Security, etc.

We (this is going to take the three of me) will present to you now the term "Invisible Fascism". Stay tuned (pun intended) for updates.

Take some time to mull it over.

[Smokin Joe]

This is how it really got going.

9\11 was the lynchpin. Whether you believe it was an outside act of terrorism, or an inside job, it brought us The Patriot Act, TSA, Homeland Security, etc.

We (this is going to take the three of me) will present to you now the term "Invisible Fascism". Stay tuned (pun intended) for updates.

Take some time to mull it over.

FWIW, I got shouted down on another site (one i no longer visit) where I was assured all those extraconstitutional powers in the Patriot Act were okay, because "our side" was putting them in there. Some of them are in direct contravention to listed civil rights.

[Bill Cipher]

What will be the test to determine sentience and/or consciousness in an AI/robot?

"I think, therefore I am" isn't going to cut it.

That is a very good question, and one on which much work has been done and will have to be done.  Perhaps some version of the Turing Test will be used.

[roamer_1]

FWIW, I got shouted down on another site (one i no longer visit) where I was assured all those extraconstitutional powers in the Patriot Act were okay, because "our side" was putting them in there. Some of them are in direct contravention to listed civil rights.

There's the problem, right there. 

[bigheadfred]

FWIW, I got shouted down on another site (one i no longer visit) where I was assured all those extraconstitutional powers in the Patriot Act were okay, because "our side" was putting them in there. Some of them are in direct contravention to listed civil rights.

You succinctly illuminate why I used the term "Invisible Fascism". I claim no intellectual rights to it. A term I heard somewhere else.

[bigheadfred]

That is a very good question, and one on which much work has been done and will have to be done.  Perhaps some version of the Turing Test will be used.

IMO, anything they come up with will never satisfy what I believe to be sentience, or conscious(ness), at the human level.

[Smokin Joe]

There's the problem, right there. 

Yep.. It's what happens when people abandon solid and unwavering principles for emotionally driven expediency.

As a rule, the WORST legislation is hammered through in an "emergency" or other frenzy to "do something".

 If Obama or Clinton had tried to have the same law passed, maybe people would have read past the title and realized what was in it--and fought it tooth and nail.

[bigheadfred]

Yep.. It's what happens when people abandon solid and unwavering principles for emotionally driven expediency.

As a rule, the WORST legislation is hammered through in an "emergency" or other frenzy to "do something".

 If Obama or Clinton had tried to have the same law passed, maybe people would have read past the title and realized what was in it--and fought it tooth and nail.

Why would I not think Clinton had a hand in the drafting of this legislation?

[bigheadfred]

April 24, 1996.

[Smokin Joe]

Why would I not think Clinton had a hand in the drafting of this legislation?

They might have, planting on call executive power far beyond anything the Constitution would allow, right down to seizing the contents of your pantry, your guns, your home, out of expedience in an emergency--essentially the carte blanche that would have the current crop of neototalitarians giving off emissions in their sleep. That's just it. If there is stuff in the Bill that shouldn't be there, it shouldn't pass, should be vetoed, no matter whose idea it was.

[bigheadfred]

They might have, planting on call executive power far beyond anything the Constitution would allow, right down to seizing the contents of your pantry, your guns, your home, out of expedience in an emergency--essentially the carte blanche that would have the current crop of neototalitarians giving off emissions in their sleep. That's just it. If there is stuff in the Bill that shouldn't be there, it shouldn't pass, should be vetoed, no matter whose idea it was.

The date I posted was when that Antiterrorism bill came into effect. The reply to Oklahoma City.

Clinton thought it had been stripped too much. Whether Clinton had an actual hand in framing the PA, those people had a lesson learned.

Clinton's law came too late. They had the PA in effect before the fires were out at ground zero, New York City.

[Frank Cannon]

They might have, planting on call executive power far beyond anything the Constitution would allow, right down to seizing the contents of your pantry, your guns, your home, out of expedience in an emergency--essentially the carte blanche that would have the current crop of neototalitarians giving off emissions in their sleep. That's just it. If there is stuff in the Bill that shouldn't be there, it shouldn't pass, should be vetoed, no matter whose idea it was.

Interesting.

[Bill Cipher]

IMO, anything they come up with will never satisfy what I believe to be sentience, or conscious(ness), at the human level.

Maybe so.  I happen to think otherwise.  I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but I’m sure it will happen. 

[bigheadfred]

Maybe so.  I happen to think otherwise.  I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but I’m sure it will happen.

Thanks for the input.

Under my current belief system, which I reserve the right to change at any time, the best they will ever get,  is a mere simulacrum.

[Bill Cipher]

Thanks for the input.

Under my current belief system, which I reserve the right to change at any time, the best they will ever get,  is a mere simulacrum.

Ok.  I believe that real sentience will be achieved. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Ok.  I believe that real sentience will be achieved.

I don't know about "achieved," but it will be declared so by the PTB whether it's really achieved or not.

[bigheadfred]

Ok.  I believe that real sentience will be achieved.

I believe sentience to be a combination of six senses in a being that is alive. Human sentience comes from those combined sensory inputs. They WILL be able to copy at least the first five, to a machine that can process the data faster than a human. But that doesn't make the machine human. Sentient under a "real" definition. Yeah, they are going to do that.

In this case, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it STILL isn't a duck.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a swan it is a narcissist.

[Smokin Joe]

I believe sentience to be a combination of six senses in a being that is alive. Human sentience comes from those combined sensory inputs. They WILL be able to copy at least the first five, to a machine that can process the data faster than a human. But that doesn't make the machine human. Sentient under a "real" definition. Yeah, they are going to do that.

In this case, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it STILL isn't a duck.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a swan it is a narcissist.

Are you harping on that poor swan's "white privilege"?  J/K

I believe we still have to come up with an untainted definition of sentience, simply because any future contact with another sentient species may occur by our actions, and failure to recognize that sentience could have serious ramifications for them and possibly us.

[Bill Cipher]

Are you harping on that poor swan's "white privilege"?  J/K

I believe we still have to come up with an untainted definition of sentience, simply because any future contact with another sentient species may occur by our actions, and failure to recognize that sentience could have serious ramifications for them and possibly us.

Agreed. 

[Bill Cipher]

I believe sentience to be a combination of six senses in a being that is alive. Human sentience comes from those combined sensory inputs. They WILL be able to copy at least the first five, to a machine that can process the data faster than a human. But that doesn't make the machine human. Sentient under a "real" definition. Yeah, they are going to do that.

In this case, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it STILL isn't a duck.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a swan it is a narcissist.

As far as I’m concerned, sentience is an epiphenomenon that arises from a purely material system, and therefore can in principle be reproduced in true fidelity.

[bigheadfred]

As far as I’m concerned, sentience is an epiphenomenon that arises from a purely material system, and therefore can in principle be reproduced in true fidelity.

So are you saying that sentience is observable effect of consciousness manifesting in three dimensions?

[bigheadfred]

This reminds me of Carl Sagan describing the introduction of a 3D object into a 2D world. In his example he used an apple as the 3D object. To an observer in the 2D world all they would see is a 2D slice of the apple. Similarly, if you pulled a 2D person into a 3D they would vanish from the 2D world.