This Is What Life Without Retirement Savings Looks Like

[bigheadfred]

And btw... that fancy pill you was taking for the hep... how much per hit? something like 700 bucks? that same pill costs under 10 bucks anywhere but here. Jussayin

It was $1000 per pill. One pill a day for 80 days. The other one was $220 for one month of pills. They made me buy enough for 90 days, but only took those for 80 days. That was 7 of those per day.

[Sanguine]

In fact @Sanguine , you hit the head of the nail right here:

This is one of the very many benefits of family, and why family needs to be promoted instead of torn down...

That should be a future goal, but what do we do with those here now?

[roamer_1]

That should be a future goal, but what do we do with those here now?

All we can do is what we are doing - but to fix it, that's the thing... and it will right itself by attrition over time.

That is why single parent households and bastard children are such a bane.
That is why women in the workforce is such a bane.
That is why taxing inheritance and property is such a bane.
That is why social security is such a bane.

All of these destroy family and its purpose. They each remove responsibilities that used to be taken up by family (or at least by local community and church), freeing them for other pursuits.

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

If you want liberty...

[bigheadfred]

As a caveat. @roamer_1

The drug manufacturer gave me the expensive one on the recommendation of my liver MD. I kicking was at death's door. They say it cured me. I had Type II. The most common is Type I. Same treatment for 96 days. $96000.

The doc told me most insurance wouldn't cover it. And the ones that would, would only go half.

And you are right. Full treatment price in India was $700-$900. Here, $80,000-$96,000.

[roamer_1]

And you are right. Full treatment price in India was $700-$900. Here, $80,000-$96,000.

That's the point right there.

[sneakypete]

Some people try to save but have bad luck ther entire lives through no fault of their own.  Major illness in family, long term job layoffs etc.

We have 40% of the population making meager wages who just get by every week.  No education and no ambition to improve themselves.

@mirraflake

The sad,sad truth is that it is hard to actually get a useful education in many cities,even if you have ambition. Schools seem to be more about indoctrination than education.

[sneakypete]

You are stone-dead-wrong. It's all a lie - and what happened to me could happen to anyone.

@roamer_1

People who are lucky enough to have led charmed lives tend to believe everyone is so lucky.

It just ain't so. All it takes is a family illness not covered by insurance,and you are screwed.

[sneakypete]

7% is the average stock market return, adjusted for inflation, for the years 1950 theough 2010 I believe.

@RoosGirl

How many blue collar workers did know in the 40's or 50's that played the stock market from the savings on their 2 dollar an hour jobs?

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

People who are lucky enough to have led charmed lives tend to believe everyone is so lucky.

It just ain't so. All it takes is a family illness not covered by insurance,and you are screwed.

That's right @sneakypete ... and they will all find out, sooner or later, the nature of the lie.

[Sanguine]

All we can do is what we are doing - but to fix it, that's the thing... and it will right itself by attrition over time.

That is why single parent households and bastard children are such a bane.
That is why women in the workforce is such a bane.
That is why taxing inheritance and property is such a bane.
That is why social security is such a bane.

All of these destroy family and its purpose. They each remove responsibilities that used to be taken up by family (or at least by local community and church), freeing them for other pursuits.

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

If you want liberty...

I would hate to think how things would have turned out had I not been able to work when I became a widow. 

[roamer_1]

I would hate to think how things would have turned out had I not been able to work when I became a widow.

That is not what I mean, and is false btw - My dear old Aunt spent her life unmarried, and a spinster living with my grandparents...When she died, her 50-flat apartment building was put in trust to provide education for every kid in the family past me. Her business dealings were made in the 50s and 60s, so the idea that women COULD NOT be in the work force is nonsense. That was never so.

It is a distraction from the truth in that most women should not work if they can help it, because the things the women do, and have done since the beginning of time, go wanting.

Care of the children, care of the elderly, growing and gathering good food, jamming local charities and daily church business... all of it goes wanting.

Uncle Nanny takes care of the old folks now... Uncle Nanny raises and educates the children... Uncle Nanny handles the charity work, and community is defined and governed from DC... So now the women are FREE to work.

Freedom has consequences.

[Restored]

@roamer_1

People who are lucky enough to have led charmed lives tend to believe everyone is so lucky.

It just ain't so. All it takes is a family illness not covered by insurance,and you are screwed.

1. My life was planned, not charmed or lucky. That's why you do a budget and marry someone who is good with money. The great thing about retirement accounts is that people can't get to them. If you leave them alone, they grow.
2. That's why we have always had medical insurance, even if it was COBRA. It used to be a lot cheaper though.
The stories of people who are broke through not fault of their own are so few, it is hard to find them. I have a friend who is that way because of her ex-husband(and giving her kids money) but she could still snag her a rich widower if she tried.  She's young(54), trim and a nympho. My sister is pursued by lots of wealthy men but she only likes the broke ones.

[Sanguine]

That is not what I mean, and is false btw - My dear old Aunt spent her life unmarried, and a spinster living with my grandparents...When she died, her 50-flat apartment building was put in trust to provide education for every kid in the family past me. Her business dealings were made in the 50s and 60s, so the idea that women COULD NOT be in the work force is nonsense. That was never so.

It is a distraction from the truth in that most women should not work if they can help it, because the things the women do, and have done since the beginning of time, go wanting.

Care of the children, care of the elderly, growing and gathering good food, jamming local charities and daily church business... all of it goes wanting.

Uncle Nanny takes care of the old folks now... Uncle Nanny raises and educates the children... Uncle Nanny handles the charity work, and community is defined and governed from DC... So now the women are FREE to work.

Freedom has consequences.

You and I disagree completely on this. 

[corbe]

   Can I PM you my phone number to pass on to you Friend @Restored

[Wingnut]

7% is the average stock market return, adjusted for inflation, for the years 1950 theough 2010 I believe.

Don't forget savings accounts back when she entered the work force Paid around 3% interest and by 1986 most were 5% or higher.  Moving money from a simple interest Savings account into CD's also earned higher rates.

[roamer_1]

You and I disagree completely on this.

I know.

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl

How many blue collar workers did know in the 40's or 50's that played the stock market from the savings on their 2 dollar an hour jobs?

Since i wasn't alive until sometime in the 70's I'm going to have to go with none.  Does that make my statement incorrect?  Does that make @Hoodat wrong?  Not all.

My grandfather quit school in the 7th grade. Grandmother in the 11th grade.  He was a carpenter and was born in 1921.  They told stories of renting to own a coffee maker when they were first starting out.  And yet they planned for their retirement in a variety of ways by scraping together and saving whatever they could. And were able to retire comfortably until their death.

Yes, some people through no fault of 5heir own fall on hard times. But a lot of people fail to plan

[Restored]

   Can I PM you my phone number to pass on to you Friend @Restored

She's taking care of her mother in SC but my sister is available.

[Sanguine]

This thread took an icky turn.

[truth_seeker]

Compound interest, savings, dividends have been around for a long time.

My surveyor (blue collar) grandfather taught me about investing, stocks etc.


He had learned from his father.

When you come from families that weathered TWO World wars, the 1929 Crash, the Depression chances are they were careful, and have little sympathy for those that were not.

[bigheadfred]

1. My life was planned, not charmed or lucky. That's why you do a budget and marry someone who is good with money. The great thing about retirement accounts is that people can't get to them. If you leave them alone, they grow.
2. That's why we have always had medical insurance, even if it was COBRA. It used to be a lot cheaper though.
The stories of people who are broke through not fault of their own are so few, it is hard to find them. I have a friend who is that way because of her ex-husband(and giving her kids money) but she could still snag her a rich widower if she tried.  She's young(54), trim and a nympho. My sister is pursued by lots of wealthy men but she only likes the broke ones.

It used to be a lot cheaper though.

And that is the killer.

Now, many places won't treat you unless you can pay.

The great thing about retirement accounts is that people can't get to them.

If the Democrats take control in 2020, they are going to be coming for that.

[bigheadfred]

I like to think I have plans. But shit happens.

[RoosGirl]

And that is the killer.

Now, many places won't treat you unless you can pay.
If the Democrats take control in 2020, they are going to be coming for that.

My previous job was with a very small office.  We had 6 total including the owner, but he set us all up with insurances and 401k.  The investment guy was in one day checking on all of us individually and he laughed at me when I said I would be surprised if I could access my 401k when I retired.  At the time I had about 30 years before I could touch it.

[Fishrrman]

Restored wrote:
"My sister is the same way. She works just to make payments. I pay $30 a month for a cell phone and she pays $200."

$200 a month? Yipes!

BTW, I pay $30 PER YEAR for my cell phone...

[Sanguine]

I know.

The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about.

 

[roamer_1]

The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about.

 

No, quite the opposite.

 

[Sanguine]

No, quite the opposite.

 

Fine.  Next time I see you I'll challenge you to an arm-wrestling contest.  Winner takes all.

[roamer_1]

Fine.  Next time I see you I'll challenge you to an arm-wrestling contest.  Winner takes all.

LOL! I look forward to it!

 

[RoosGirl]

LOL! I look forward to it!

 

Watch out. She's got a whip.

[dfwgator]

The miracle of compound interest could have been the retched souls friend.  But a life time of her poor choices should make me weep for her.  I think not.

Makes a huge difference if you start in your 20s,  but a lot of people are using those years loading up on college debt.

[roamer_1]

Watch out. She's got a whip.

So?

[sneakypete]

So?

@roamer_1 @RoosGirl

Watch out. She's got a whip.

I am no expert on this stuff,and don't even play one on teebee,but I suspect it means she charges extra.

[corbe]

   The good ones and I suspect @Sanguine is one of those, do it for free just to watch you writher in agony.

[berdie]

I have been hesitant to post on this thread..but my hesitancy has overcome my caution.

I am happy for everyone that had the wherewithal to be able to have a great plan. And be able to carry it out.

But not all do...thru no fault of their own.  I think of my own mom who scraped by.  $18 a week...please...that was a lot of food.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

This is a really interesting issue for conservatives, and we need to think about it.  I will admit that my thinking on the matter is changing.  Used to be, I would have said, "their fault, it's on them."  But, our society has changed dramatically over the last 150 or so years.   

In the past, families and small communities would care for those in need not due to their own faults. We still have some of that, but not for the vast majority of people. 

Also, there were some serious self-limiting factors in play, as in, you didn't work, you didn't eat.  Real simple and a strong motivator.   It forced people to think about and plan for the future.  Now, we know that that safety net will catch us if we fall, and there is little stigma attached to tapping into it.

And, then we need to look at how our world works.  The Pareto Principle, for instance, which basically states, that in many cases, 80% of the available resources go to 20% of the population.  It's not a left/right thing, it's a thing. 

And, then there's IQ.  That's one we don't like to look at or admit to, because it denies a basic belief that everyone can do well in our society if they just try.  It's a lot more than just trying.  For instance, if your IQ is below a certain point, you simply can't see far enough ahead to know that you need to plan and how to do it.

So, we can take several positions here: 

1. People need to take care of themselves, and we need to cut tax-payer support so that they will have to develop the skills they need to survive.

2. The system is rigged from the start and smart bureaucrats need to be able to help those on the bottom of the system through life by taking resources from those on the top and redistributing them and by "educating" members of society so that they do what they should do.

There's obvious problems with both of those approaches.

The absolute best way to deal with people is to use the closest entity to the affected people you can.  Not the bureacracy at the state or federal levels, down to county, city or smaller.  A charity is the best so no public entity is involved.

Case in point: My wife served as a volunteer of a charity that handed out to needy people groceries, clothes, even paying some of the gas or electricity bills.  She would be designated to go to the home to assess the position of those applying for charity.

If cigarettes or booze was present, or if cable tv, then they would give them nothing.

If kids were starving due to the parents' habits, then CPS would be called to take the kids.

Suck it up or starve is the message.

[Frank Cannon]

Poor people suck. Why in the hell should I give a flying eff what poor choices led to this idiot working at age 75?

[Wingnut]

Are there no poor houses for these people anymore.

[Hoodat]

At 7%? In what dreamland does any working-class person have access to the Wall Street brokers that could get them that kind of rate of return?

Most are lucky to have access to a 2% savings account or CD.

The DOW has averaged a 7.7% return over the last 45 years.  Anyone can invest in a mutual fund with as little as $250.  So yes, the average working class stiff could have done exactly this.  The only obstacle being a government that confiscated 12.5% of his income which denied his/her ability to invest.

[libertybele]

If Roberta hadn't been forced to turn over 12.4% of her income to the government ponzi scheme at the point of a gun, she would have been able to invest it for herself and retire a millionaire.  And thanks to the Democrats, she now gets to pay income tax on her social security benefits.

    

[LMAO]

 I get things happen to people in their life and sometimes unfortunate circumstances happened to even the best of planners

But this article should also be a warning of what happens when you rely on the government for your well-being