Author Topic: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter  (Read 12059 times)

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rangerrebew

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Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« on: November 28, 2018, 11:27:21 am »
Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter

November 26, 2018 

A new study shows extreme heat events both in the summer and in the winter are increasing across the U.S. and Canada, while extreme cold events in summer and winter are declining.

A new study in the in Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, a publication of the American Geophysical Union, examined absolute extreme temperatures—high temperatures in summer and low temperatures in winter—but also looked at relative extreme temperature events—unusually cold temperatures and unusually warm temperatures throughout the year.

https://m.phys.org/news/2018-11-extreme-summer-winter.html

rangerrebew

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 11:28:46 am »
I don't know about others, but there is no "extreme heat" so far this winter in Michigan. 888blackhat

Offline Dexter

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2018, 11:30:57 am »
I don't know about others, but there is no "extreme heat" so far this winter in Michigan. 888blackhat

Your anecdotal observations should be valued as such.
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rangerrebew

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2018, 11:35:04 am »
Your anecdotal observations should be valued as such.

I haven't kept any detailed records, for sure, but I would deny warming if it irritated just one alarmist! 00drama

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2018, 11:41:36 am »
Well....Mom does keep detailed records.  A bit anal-rententive for me, but useful in this case.  Nope, no extremes, except for the 2011 extreme drought, which tracks with the "normal" 50-60 year drought cycle.

The article doesn't say where they came up with their data, so the accuracy of this "study" is impossible to evaluate.

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 11:46:17 am »
The article doesn't say where they came up with their data, so the accuracy of this "study" is impossible to evaluate.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018JD029150
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 11:49:21 am »
Also at the bottom of that link there are a bunch of files filled with supporting information.
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 03:49:52 pm »
I don't know about others, but there is no "extreme heat" so far this winter in Michigan. 888blackhat
I leave Michigan for warmer winters in a Texas, but it has thus far been anything but warmer. It has average 10 to 15 degrees below normal temps here.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 04:21:23 pm »
The problem is that most of these studies are not raw numbers. They are 'interprolated'. And there is a huge confirmation bias, as we seen with the recent paper on ocean temps that had to be retracted because of math 'errors'.
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Offline Restored

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 04:22:48 pm »
I predict a cold winter here then. WindChill was 5 here today
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2018, 04:25:52 pm »
Victor Davis Hanson, PhD

The Age of Mass Hysteria


Sorry...
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2018, 04:44:13 pm »
OK, @Dexter, I read through the paper.  Here's my brief take:

Quote
Global mean surface temperature is the most frequently cited indicator of climate change, with a steady upward trend since the 1970s

This is the first sentence of the introduction.  It is not true.  There have been many corrections, most of which have occurred fairly recently (within the last 10 years), as problems with older data and data collection techniques have been identified.  Depending on erroneous, debunked, and outright falsified data renders the whole research invalid.  I suppose that there is a tiny chance that they used the wrong data and got the right answer, but I'm not giving that much credence. 

The authors use a period of 36 years.  That is simply not enough time to demonstrate a true climate trend.

Quote
One of the most complex aspects of studying ETEs is that there is no formal definition of what an ETE is; indeed, in one recent paper 16 different definitions of heat indices were evaluated for the United States with differing spatial patterns of mean and, to a lesser extent, trends, based on the metric used ...

I'll let you ponder that one on your own.

And, my last point, which I can't prove, but have merely observed over time: I have read and evaluated a great number of research papers.  The denser and more oblique the language, the less value to the paper.  This one is particularly dense and appears to use language to baffle rather than make clear.

Thanks for posting the link.  It was very enlightening.

Offline Snarknado

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2018, 09:07:11 pm »
I don't know about others, but there is no "extreme heat" so far this winter in Michigan. 888blackhat

I thought I saw some on the UM sidelines last Saturday...
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2018, 09:33:44 pm »
More heat and less cold in the winter?   Solid!   As for more heat in the summer,  that's what the beach is for.    :cool:
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Oceander

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 09:46:11 pm »
OK, @Dexter, I read through the paper.  Here's my brief take:

This is the first sentence of the introduction.  It is not true.  There have been many corrections, most of which have occurred fairly recently (within the last 10 years), as problems with older data and data collection techniques have been identified.  Depending on erroneous, debunked, and outright falsified data renders the whole research invalid.  I suppose that there is a tiny chance that they used the wrong data and got the right answer, but I'm not giving that much credence. 

The authors use a period of 36 years.  That is simply not enough time to demonstrate a true climate trend.

I'll let you ponder that one on your own.

And, my last point, which I can't prove, but have merely observed over time: I have read and evaluated a great number of research papers.  The denser and more oblique the language, the less value to the paper.  This one is particularly dense and appears to use language to baffle rather than make clear.

Thanks for posting the link.  It was very enlightening.

:thumbsup:

Absolutely spot on!

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2018, 09:50:01 pm »
Last night we were 3 degrees above the record low (in 1970) for that date, tonight will be the same. This is 25 degrees below the average low for the date.

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2018, 09:51:00 pm »
And, my last point, which I can't prove, but have merely observed over time: I have read and evaluated a great number of research papers.  The denser and more oblique the language, the less value to the paper.  This one is particularly dense and appears to use language to baffle rather than make clear.

Thanks for posting the link.  It was very enlightening.

Less value to who? You? Things can't always be explained in layman's, especially in science. That's kind of the point. In a conversation with scientists we wouldn't even be able to contribute.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:55:22 pm by Dexter »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2018, 09:57:37 pm »
Less value to who? You? Things can't always be explained in layman's, especially in science.

That's the one point you want to pick on?  Interesting.

Have you ever read Relativity: The Special and General Theory as written by Albert Einstein?  Remarkably readable and clear.  And, yes, comprehensible to a layperson.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2018, 09:58:50 pm »
That's the one point you want to pick on?  Interesting.

Have you ever read Relativity: The Special and General Theory as written by Albert Einstein?  Remarkably readable and clear.  And, yes, comprehensible to a layperson.

They are not intentionally making it too confusing for us to understand. It's actually just too confusing for us to understand because we're not climate scientists. Mr. Einstein's book doesn't change the point I am making.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:59:26 pm by Dexter »
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2018, 10:00:22 pm »
If Einstein tried to explain his work in more detail you would very likely be completely lost.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2018, 10:02:00 pm »
They are not intentionally making it too confusing for us to understand. It's actually just too confusing for us to understand because we're not climate scientists. Mr. Einstein's book doesn't change the point I am making.

Yes, they are.  Their argument is weak and they try to obfuscate that fact by using "academic" language.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2018, 10:03:51 pm »
If Einstein tried to explain his work in more detail you would very likely be completely lost.

So you didn't read the book.  Nothing to be ashamed about.

He explains his theory in great and eloquent detail.  And, no, relativity theory does not lose me.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2018, 10:07:00 pm »
And, no, relativity theory does not lose me.

It would if he put you in front of a chalk board and tried to explain the math.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2018, 10:14:18 pm »
It would if he put you in front of a chalk board and tried to explain the math.

No, the math is not that complicated. 

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2018, 10:15:59 pm »
No, the math is not that complicated.

Do you think you could replicate the work of Albert Einstein in front of a classroom at Columbia University?
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Oceander

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 10:18:19 pm »
Less value to who? You? Things can't always be explained in layman's, especially in science. That's kind of the point. In a conversation with scientists we wouldn't even be able to contribute.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true.  If an alleged expert cannot explain a concept in terms that can be grasped by an intelligent layperson who is patient and willing to mull things over, then that person either isn’t really an expert, or is trying to dissemble. 


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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 10:34:31 pm »
Sorry, but that’s simply not true.  If an alleged expert cannot explain a concept in terms that can be grasped by an intelligent layperson who is patient and willing to mull things over, then that person either isn’t really an expert, or is trying to dissemble.

They try, but then skeptics demand details that involve math and words they don't understand.
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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 10:34:34 pm »
Do you think you could replicate the work of Albert Einstein in front of a classroom at Columbia University?

Replicate the work?  As in, explain how and why relativity works?  Yes, I have done so. 

Could I have come up with relativity on my own?  Highly unlikely.  I'm no Einstein. 

I'm not sure what you're asking. 

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2018, 10:36:49 pm »
Replicate the work?  As in, explain how and why relativity works?  Yes, I have done so. 

Could I have come up with relativity on my own?  Highly unlikely.  I'm no Einstein. 

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I do not believe you could teach a class on relativity at Columbia University. The point I'm trying to make is that most people know a lot less than they think they do. Einstein's work has a lot more depth than you or I will likely ever understand.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:37:38 pm by Dexter »
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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2018, 10:37:39 pm »
Yes, they are.  Their argument is weak and they try to obfuscate that fact by using "academic" language.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2018, 10:41:55 pm »
Replicate the work?  As in, explain how and why relativity works?  Yes, I have done so. 

You're into some odd hobbies. You must be a blast a dinner parties.

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2018, 10:42:41 pm »
I do not believe you could teach a class on relativity at Columbia University. The point I'm trying to make is that most people know a lot less than they think they do. Einstein's work has a lot more depth than you or I will likely ever understand.

Speak for yourself. 

And, try addressing the other points. 

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2018, 10:43:11 pm »
You're into some odd hobbies. You must be a blast a dinner parties.

You know it.

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2018, 10:44:47 pm »
Speak for yourself. 

And, try addressing the other points.

Well, if you understand relativity at Einstein level and could easily teach his work at an Ivy League college after reading a book about it you're a hell of a lot smarter than I am. I guess I'll just leave you to it.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:46:14 pm by Dexter »
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 10:48:08 pm »
You know it.

What are you doing next weekend? I have some business associates coming over for dinner. Figured you could swing buy after the aperitifs to discuss the ins and outs on the laws of Thermodynamics.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2018, 10:48:46 pm »
Well, if you understand relativity at Einstein level and could easily teach his work at an Ivy League college after reading a book about it you're a hell of a lot smarter than I am. I guess I'll just leave you to it.

Whew, lot of interpolating and extrapolating in that statement.  Unfortunately, you seem to be lacking not only data to back up your conclusion, but logical thought processes.

Goodnight, Dexter.   

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2018, 10:49:45 pm »
What are you doing next weekend? I have some business associates coming over for dinner. Figured you could swing buy after the aperitifs to discuss the ins and outs on the laws of Thermodynamics.

I'm good with thermodynamics, but prefer quantum physics.

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 10:51:31 pm »
What are you doing next weekend? I have some business associates coming over for dinner. Figured you could swing buy after the aperitifs to discuss the ins and outs on the laws of Thermodynamics.

 :laughingdog:
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 10:51:47 pm »
I do not believe you could teach a class on relativity at Columbia University. The point I'm trying to make is that most people know a lot less than they think they do. Einstein's work has a lot more depth than you or I will likely ever understand.


Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2018, 10:53:54 pm »
I'm good with thermodynamics, but prefer quantum physics.

Yeah. I'll have to give my pot dealer a call to make sure I'm prepared for that lecture.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 10:55:06 pm »


I was wondering where you were.  This one's right up your alley. 

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2018, 10:58:00 pm »
I was wondering where you were.  This one's right up your alley.

Discussing with the hubs buying enough dynamite to blow the shit out of new concrete slab, or at least enough that most of it lands in the neighbors yard so we don't have to haul it off.   *****rollingeyes*****

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 11:09:49 pm »
Discussing with the hubs buying enough dynamite to blow the shit out of new concrete slab, or at least enough that most of it lands in the neighbors yard so we don't have to haul it off.   *****rollingeyes*****

Get a couple 55 gallon drums of sulfuric acid and put them on the slab. Get your 410 shotgun out and aerate the drums and go to bed. When you wake up the slab will be gone. 

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 11:12:07 pm »
Get a couple 55 gallon drums of sulfuric acid and put them on the slab. Get your 410 shotgun out and aerate the drums and go to bed. When you wake up the slab will be gone.

Been wanting a 410 pump; good enough reason to go buy one.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2018, 11:13:33 pm »
Been wanting a 410 pump; good enough reason to go buy one.

You could save money on the acid and use it on the concrete guy and call it a day.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2018, 11:20:17 pm »
Why do you want to blow up the slab?

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2018, 11:22:07 pm »
Why do you want to blow up the slab?

The revenuers know that it is a still site and she needs to get rid of the evidence.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 11:24:17 pm »
Why do you want to blow up the slab?

I was fortunate enough to get enough rain to get some erosion around one side of my new slab that exposed the bottom of the footer and the rebar that is hanging out the bottom of it instead of up in the concrete like it's supposed to be.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2018, 11:25:56 pm »
LOL, as the coldest Nov temps EVER are recorded in NA and Asia.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Extreme heat increasing in both summer and winter
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2018, 11:27:15 pm »
I was fortunate enough to get enough rain to get some erosion around one side of my new slab that exposed the bottom of the footer and the rebar that is hanging out the bottom of it instead of up in the concrete like it's supposed to be.

Have you thought about using a light charge of TNT and blowing the rebar up into the concrete? Problem solved.