Remedial Education Too Common and Costly, Report Says

[rangerrebew]

Remedial Education Too Common and Costly, Report Says

 

A recently released report from the Center for American Progress has examined the remedial education system currently in place in the United States, calling it a “black hole” from which students are unlikely to pull themselves out of.

The report, “Remedial Education: The Cost of Catching Up,” states that millions of students enroll in college each year across the country and discover that they need to take remedial education courses.  Teaching students what they should have learned in high school, these courses do not count toward a degree program, but still come with a financial price tag.  Estimates suggest the courses are costing students and their families in all 50 states close to $1.3 billion each year.

The authors say that students who enroll in these courses are less likely to graduate.

https://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/remedial-education-too-common-and-costly-report-says/

[Dexter]

It's a shame that enormous classrooms, limited supplies and shitty pay are mitigating the quality of our public education.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Sanguine 

This relates to what I was referring to on another thread about "School-to-work."  If a student wants to break the predetermination that was made in Middle School that he/she isn't "college material," that student has to enter what this author refers to as a "black hole."

[Cyber Liberty]

It's a shame that enormous classrooms, limited supplies and shitty pay are mitigating the quality of our public education.

Then by all means, we must throw more money at Public Education.  It's those skinflints in Congress...

Fortunately, the Teacher Union's pets are in charge now.  Yaay us.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine 

This relates to what I was referring to on another thread about "School-to-work."  If a student wants to break the predetermination that was made in Middle School that he/she isn't "college material," that student has to enter what this author refers to as a "black hole."

A couple of reasons why this may not be so popular with the education establishment: students who have worked and are employable are less likely to accept leftist dogma, and they are also less malleable due to college being an option and not a given. They can walk away and still have a good, fulfilling life. 

[Cyber Liberty]

A couple of reasons why this may not be so popular with the education establishment: students who have worked and are employable are less likely to accept leftist dogma, and they are also less malleable due to college being an option and not a given. They can walk away and still have a good, fulfilling life.

A great post!  Thanks for answering my ping, because I really want to know what a real Educator thinks about all this.

[Dexter]

Then by all means, we must throw more money at Public Education.  It's those skinflints in Congress...

Fortunately, the Teacher Union's pets are in charge now.  Yaay us.

It beats the hell out of throwing more money at globalism.

[Sanguine]

A great post!  Thanks for answering my ping, because I really want to know what a real Educator thinks about all this.

You're so welcome.  We are lucky to have a number of teachers, with real-life experience, here.

[Cyber Liberty]

It beats the hell out of throwing more money at globalism.

Throwing money at anything is still throwing it, and wasting it too.  I choose "neither."  The Department of Education (Carter's Folly) has proven that spending any money on a Federal level is guaranteed wastage.  The States should handle it, they know their students and parents better than some DeeCee bureaucrat.

[Dexter]

The States should handle it, they know their students and parents better than some DeeCee bureaucrat.

I'm fine with the states handling it as long as certain standards are met, like the average child being able to read and write within a reasonable amount of time.

[Sanguine]

I'm fine with the states handling it as long as certain standards are met, like the average child being able to read and write within a reasonable amount of time.

Generally, "handling it" includes the setting of the measures of success. 

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm fine with the states handling it as long as certain standards are met, like the average child being able to read and write within a reasonable amount of time.

They were doing a reasonable job of that, before Carter's Folly decided it would get to dictate what those requirements are.  Yet another example of why the Feds don't need to stick their fingers in everything.

[Dexter]

Generally, "handling it" includes the setting of the measures of success.

It's not unreasonable to tell the states that if they want to handle education they at least have to make sure kids are learning to read and write.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's not unreasonable to tell the states that if they want to handle education they at least have to make sure kids are learning to read and write.

If that was all Carter's Folly ever demanded we would've been fine.  They now require a lot more, like Gender Studies classes in Secondary Education and quotas for hiring Educators.

[Dexter]

If that was all Carter's Folly ever demanded we would've been fine.  They now require a lot more, like Gender Studies classes in Secondary Education and quotas for hiring Educators.

The only thing I might like to see mandated other than some very general academia standards is finance classes in high school so young people are taught to make more intelligent financial decisions.

[Sanguine]

It's not unreasonable to tell the states that if they want to handle education they at least have to make sure kids are learning to read and write.

Under what authority does the federal government have to do that?

[Dexter]

Under what authority does the federal government have to do that?

Under the authority they have already assumed and that you have no means of taking away from them.

[Cyber Liberty]

 

The only thing I might like to see mandated other than some very general academia standards is finance classes in high school so young people are taught to make more intelligent financial decisions.

You will find out government bureaucrats will never satisfy themselves with those excellent goals.  Many of us already know that, which is why we don't like Carter's Folly.  They get paid for adding bells and whistles to the machine, not for running it efficiently.  That describes almost every Federal Program in existence today.

Leave it to the States.  If they don't meet the requirements you describe, then their own voters will straighten them out.  It cannot be done from the outside.

[Cyber Liberty]

Under the authority they have already assumed and that you have no means of taking away from them.

I refuse to give up.  I'm not wired that way, most Briefers aren't either.  Giving up and knuckling under for Federal bureaucrats is an alien concept.

[Sanguine]

Under the authority they have already assumed and that you have no means of taking away from them.

You're right; I should have included "legitimate".

[Dexter]

I refuse to give up.  I'm not wired that way, most Briefers aren't either.  Giving up and knuckling under for Federal bureaucrats is an alien concept.

Refusing to compromise for a better situation than currently exists does nothing to advance your goals. You're not going to completely shake off the feds.

[Dexter]

You're right; I should have included "legitimate".

That IS legitimate authority whether we like it or not. They'll kill us; there's nothing we can do.

[Cyber Liberty]

Refusing to compromise for a better situation than currently exists does nothing to advance your goals. You're not going to completely shake off the feds.

Probably not, but I will be damned if I accept the current level of usurpation either.  The day I accept there's nothing I can do will be the day I pull up the drawbridge to my Castle. 

[Sanguine]

That IS legitimate authority whether we like it or not. They'll kill us; there's nothing we can do.

Bullshit!  That is not legitimate.   

[Dexter]

Bullshit!  That is not legitimate.

It's legitimate enough for me. I'm not going to die on that hill.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's legitimate enough for me. I'm not going to die on that hill.

Be sure and give us some warning so we can stay out of your Congressional District.  I find that if I surround myself with "giver-uppers" I become ticked off, and I want some peace in my life right now.  I need friends who will stay in the foxhole, not run off like a coward.

[Dexter]

Be sure and give us some warning so we can stay out of your Congressional District.  I find that if I surround myself with "giver-uppers" I become ticked off, and I want some peace in my life right now.  I need friends who will stay in the foxhole, not run off like a coward.

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

Whatever you say.  My attitude is more like the statement in the upper-right corner of my signature block.  Just don't expect me to agree with you about very much.

[Sanguine]

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

Not winning and gaining nothing are not the same thing.

[truth_seeker]

Under what authority does the federal government have to do that?

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."


 

[Sanguine]

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."

Are you on your phone? 

[Cyber Liberty]

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."

I agree very much with the part I highlighted.  I will not accept that it is "impossible" because the Feds are already involved.  It will be difficult because the centralized bureaucrats will fight common sense every step of the way, if it means diminishing their power and budgets.

[Dexter]

I agree very much with the part I highlighted.  I will not accept that it is "impossible" because the Feds are already involved.  It will be difficult because the centralized bureaucrats will fight common sense every step of the way, if it means diminishing their power and budgets.

There's no way you will completely remove federal involvement in education, ever. You might be able to mitigate a lot compared to how it is now, but it will never be gone entirely. There is progress that can be made.

[Sanguine]

There's no way you will completely remove federal involvement in education, ever. You might be able to mitigate a lot compared to how it is now, but it will never be gone entirely. There is progress that can be made.

You live in a very gloomy and defeatist world. 

[Dexter]

You live in a very gloomy and defeatist world.

The real world has real limitations. We can improve some things though.

[Sanguine]

The real world has real limitations. We can improve some things though.

Now, something we can agree on.  We need to improve education by restoring Constitutional boundaries and getting the federal government out of education.

[Dexter]

Now, something we can agree on.  We need to improve education by restoring Constitutional boundaries and getting the federal government out of education.

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

[Sanguine]

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

Now, there you go again, Dex.  Stand up straight, clean your room and be of good cheer.  We adults will try to fix things for you. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Now, there you go again, Dex.  Stand up straight, clean your room and be of good cheer.  We adults will try to fix things for you.

[truth_seeker]

The Constitution, does not even mention education.

And before the FedGov got involved, we had better education outcomes.

Few deny that a HS diploma from the 1930s-1960s equals or is even better, than a 4 yr. college degree, today.

Today a graduate degree is probably little ahead of a bachelors, from years ago.

[truth_seeker]

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

Are you a climate scientist, or an educator, or both?


Inquiring minds, want to know about your CV?

IOW about your Qualifications, for the various subjects upon which you opine with such confidence?

As is true in employment, you can substitute work experience, for formal education.

As an aside, the fields of philosophy, math, sciences group with Logic; critical thinking.

They tend to NOT be based on "feelings," etc.
 

[the_doc]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

@Sanguine 

This relates to what I was referring to on another thread about "School-to-work."  If a student wants to break the predetermination that was made in Middle School that he/she isn't "college material," that student has to enter what this author refers to as a "black hole."

The most serious problems aren't overcrowding in poor high school classrooms with underpaid teachers.  The two problems I have seen are as follows:

1)  Some kids aren't college material and never will be--and yet they have been told that they need to go to college to have good life.  If they want a six-figure income eventually, they'd better be encouraged to look elsewhere.  (Sadly, a lot of young folks could make that kind of money with no prior training in the oil industry's presently available openings, but they can't pass a drug screen.)

2)  Some kids, on the other hand, could become college students if they got better primary and secondary instruction in the classrooms we already have under the teachers we already have.  (This second problem, related to but different from the first one, is a pervasive problem in America's culture, filtering into our schools from the top via progressive administrators and from the bottom via social and family decay.  [For example, a California teacher once told me that the Constitution was taken completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

One of the saddest things about the black hole mess is that a lot of colleges are trying to suck kids out of the black holes of inadequate remedial education (and to make them paying customers in college) by seriously dumbing down the college curriculum--leaving the kids one degree older and deeper in debt.

[Cyber Liberty]

@the_doc  Good post!  Thanks for the ping to it!

[Dexter]

Are you a climate scientist, or an educator, or both?


Inquiring minds, want to know about your CV?

IOW about your Qualifications, for the various subjects upon which you opine with such confidence?

As is true in employment, you can substitute work experience, for formal education.

As an aside, the fields of philosophy, math, sciences group with Logic; critical thinking.

They tend to NOT be based on "feelings," etc.

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

[Dexter]

The most serious problems aren't overcrowding in poor high school classrooms with underpaid teachers.

"Most serious..."

So do we at least agree that those are factors that mitigate the quality of education?

[truth_seeker]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

California schools were Number One in the mid 1960s. Today they come in below Number 45.

I had a debate once with a HS credentialed teacher. She had a M.Ed. degree, for masters in education.

She was expounding on the benefits of socialism, etc.(like Dexter does).

I asked her precisely the amount of school training in Economics, she had taken in undergrad and grad school?

She at least answered honestly, "None."

Traits they share include "confidence," perhaps from gold stars for merely participating, and
 Arrogance, of the type lacking in self-awareness, of even seeing how others notice their ignorance.


Eith a little bit of "social sciences" knowledge, they think they know it all.

[the_doc]

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

I don't know your position on Anthropogenic Global Warming, so I certainly don't assume that you're a complete idiot, friend.

[Dexter]

I dreamed of being an educator. My old man is one. It's too bleep up and it doesn't pay enough, though. I'm going to make sure my descendants don't have to worry about how they will afford an education or where they can afford to live. I can't achieve that as an educator.

[the_doc]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

California schools were Number One in the mid 1960s. Today they come in below Number 45.

I had a debate once with a HS credentialed teacher. She had a M.Ed. degree, for masters in education.

She was expounding on the benefits of socialism, etc.(like Dexter does).

I asked her precisely the amount of school training in Economics, she had taken in undergrad and grad school?

She at least answered honestly, "None."

Traits they share include "confidence," perhaps from gold stars for merely participating, and
 Arrogance, of the type lacking in self-awareness, of even seeing how others notice their ignorance.


Eith a little bit of "social sciences" knowledge, they think they know it all.

Ah, thanks for pointing out the quasi-exception to my generalization that we ought to be able to work with existing classrooms and existing teachers.    Some of our HS teachers ought to be forced out of their jobs.  (Better to have overcrowded classes than to have poison being spewed at impressionable kids.  Better school administrators would find a way to fire flagrant Socialists in spite of teachers' unions.)

[Cyber Liberty]

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

I hope you know we're just funnin' ya....