GM to slash jobs and production, cancel some car models

[sneakypete]

Unless you bought a Ford Power Stroke where it would be just broken at 20K miles.

@Frank Cannon

Frank,the original Power Strokes were IHC engines,and damn near indestructible. My first diesel pu was a 90 F-350 4X4 with the 7.3 Power Stroke.

Ford really screwed up when they stopped using that engine,and even though the version they are using now is supposed to be reliable,everything between the end of the IHC engine and now was junk waiting to happen.

In fact,that was why I decided to buy a 2006-2007 Chevy or GMC diesel when looking for my current diesel. The Dodge Cummings can't be beat,but they had a hell of a lot of transmission problem. The GM 6.6 was a piece of crap before they got the bugs worked out,but by 2006 they were bulletproof,and combined with a 6 speed Allison automatic trans,were ideal. The trick was finding one with the LBZ engine instead of the typical LMM engine.  The LBZ had 365 hp and 665 ft.lbs of torque,and the LMM only had 300 hp and a little better than 500 ft lbs of torque. Finally found one in Texas with less than 100k that had never been modified with a lift kit,stupid tires,or any of the other crap that indicates it has been dogged,AND it has the 3:73 limited slip gears I wanted (most seem to have 4:11 gearing) so I went to Texas and drove it  home. Owned trucks all my life,and have never loved one the way I love that thing. Never owned one that rode or drove better,either.

[RetBobbyMI]

While I love our Ford 4x4 Expedition EL (extra long), it isn't the only type of SUV available.  All of the following allow the driver's viewpoint to be higher than a typical sedan.  And all about half or less the price range you mentioned.

14 Cheapest SUVs of 2018
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cheapest-suv-on-the-market

14) 2018 Hyundai Tucson: $22,550
13) 2018 Hyundai Tucson: $22,550
12) 2018 Toyota C-HR: $22,500
11) 2018 Nissan Rogue Sport: $22,110
10) 2018 Subaru Crosstrek: $21,795
9) 2018 Chevrolet Trax: $21,000
8) 2018 Jeep Compass: $20,995
7) 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport: $20,395
6) 2018 Mazda CX-3: $20,110
4) 2018 Fiat 500X (tie): $19,995
4) 2018 Ford EcoSport (tie): $19,995
3) 2018 Honda HR-V: $19,670
2) 2018 Hyundai Kona: $19,500
1) 2018 Jeep Renegade: $18,445

Nothing more than compact junk on steroids. Barely room for the drivers arse.

[Bigun]

@Frank Cannon

Frank,the original Power Strokes were IHC engines,and damn near indestructible. My first diesel pu was a 90 F-350 4X4 with the 7.3 Power Stroke.

Ford really screwed up when they stopped using that engine,and even though the version they are using now is supposed to be reliable,everything between the end of the IHC engine and now was junk waiting to happen.

In fact,that was why I decided to buy a 2006-2007 Chevy or GMC diesel when looking for my current diesel. The Dodge Cummings can't be beat,but they had a hell of a lot of transmission problem. The GM 6.6 was a piece of crap before they got the bugs worked out,but by 2006 they were bulletproof,and combined with a 6 speed Allison automatic trans,were ideal. The trick was finding one with the LBZ engine instead of the typical LMM engine.  The LBZ had 365 hp and 665 ft.lbs of torque,and the LMM only had 300 hp and a little better than 500 ft lbs of torque. Finally found one in Texas with less than 100k that had never been modified with a lift kit,stupid tires,or any of the other crap that indicates it has been dogged,AND it has the 3:73 limited slip gears I wanted (most seem to have 4:11 gearing) so I went to Texas and drove it  home. Owned trucks all my life,and have never loved one the way I love that thing. Never owned one that rode or drove better,either.

I traded off a 2001 Ford Excursion with 7.3 @253K miles at the insistence of my dear wife.  BIG mistake!

[GrouchoTex]

Say what you want to, but I been driving a Toyota Tacoma now purchased new, since 2006.
My wife drives a Hyundai Santa Fe purchased new, in 2008.
Because of the reliability of both, we've actually saved money.
Both still in good shape.
Both of us drove American Cars or Trucks since the 70's.
Our last US vehicles were a Ford Ranger (I know, it's a Mazda, but...) and a Saturn station wagon.
Both purchased new, and neither got to 100K in miles.
My Ranger was in the shop quite a bit.
36k warantee, and lo and behold, 2nd gear goes out at 37k.
It didn't get better from there.
Traded it in at 78k, after numerous issues.
My wife fared a bit better with the Saturn.
No issues until the motor seized, at 98k.
I've heard that the US is making better cars and trucks now, but I've heard that for quite a while.
Company I work for has 2 GM vehicles, a Chevy Silverado and an Impala, both purchased new.
Both have been back for one issue or another since 2015.
It may just be me, but it is the experiences I've had over the years.
I've have a few more issues than this.

[catfish1957]

I always had you pegged as a Citation owner.

Actually  in my young immature skirt chasing days my last GM product in '81 was this.....



As good as it looked, it was a rolling piece of shit.

[thackney]

Actually  in my young immature skirt chasing days my last GM product in '81 was this.....

That needs some punctuation in there.  I read that thinking you were chasing days wearing a immature skirt....

[Applewood]

There's more to this story.  Looks like GM management offered buyouts to more than 17,000 employees before the layoffs and closings were announced, but not enough employees accepted.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/28/heres-the-buyout-gm-offered-before-announcing-14000-job-cuts.html

[RetBobbyMI]

There's more to this story.  Looks like GM management offered buyouts to more than 17,000 employees before the layoffs and closings were announced, but not enough employees accepted.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/28/heres-the-buyout-gm-offered-before-announcing-14000-job-cuts.html

Buyout only for salaried employees. Six months of salary, unless an executive, and only for those with 12 years or more. Not a lot of incentive unless you are close to retirement anyway.

Also, “The cuts are designed to free up some cash and position its workforce of 180,000 for the future of autonomous vehicles and electric cars.”  Who wants that stuff?  More of GM knows better what consumers want.. BS!

[sneakypete]

Also, “The cuts are designed to free up some cash and position its workforce of 180,000 for the future of autonomous vehicles and electric cars.”  Who wants that stuff?  More of GM knows better what consumers want.. BS!

@RetBobbyMI

Well,one of the problems we have today is that auto manufacturers,and pretty much ever other manufacturer,builds cars to appeal to government regulators,not consumers.

[RoosGirl]

Actually  in my young immature skirt chasing days my last GM product in '81 was this.....



As good as it looked, it was a rolling piece of shit.

You got the turbo, didn't you?

[Frank Cannon]

You got the turbo, didn't you?

No. It was probably a yellow column shift Esprit with a 301 that he had Earl Scheib pant it black and bought the chicken stickers over the counter.

[RoosGirl]

No. It was probably a yellow column shift Esprit with a 301 that he had Earl Scheib pant it black and bought the chicken stickers over the counter.

An Esprit with a shaker hood?  You crazy?

[Frank Cannon]

An Esprit with a shaker hood?  You crazy?

A trip to the junkyard got you ten of those for a dollar back in the day.

[RoosGirl]

A trip to the junkyard got you ten of those for a dollar back in the day.

Was the regular 301 as shitty as the 301 turbo?

[Frank Cannon]

Was the regular 301 as shitty as the 301 turbo?

The 301 was the embodiment of sadness and despair. I flipped out a 78 Bonneville a couple years ago that had one and it made the Olds 307 feel spirited, which is one of the most under-powered wastes of metal ever designed.

[berdie]

@RetBobbyMI

No disrespect intended,but if you think a Honda Ridgeline is a truck,you don't know much about trucks.

Hey, now...@sneakypete...That's my Ridgeline he was talking about. I have always said it is a girl truck. But it serves my purpose. I can haul when I need to, can see out of it and it's easy to get in and out of for folks with a bad back.  As opposed to a VW or Beemer...it's a useful truck. Could I run plumbing calls from it? I guess...but why screw things up? There is a market for vehicles like these that is being overlooked.

I had driven a Chevy all my life before they got so proud of them...they got out of reach financially. Besides that...I'm still miffed about the bailout. Look how that has turned out.

[corbe]

   I liked your Truck @sneakypete

[Frank Cannon]

I had driven a Chevy all my life before they got so proud of them...they got out of reach financially. Besides that...I'm still miffed about the bailout. Look how that has turned out.

Are you kidding? I was helping my sister buy a CRV at the dealer last year. Honda prices are insane for the bland wallpaper paste they are selling. Then there are the add ons. Want a color, add a grand. Want a real radio, add a grand.

[sneakypete]

   I liked your Truck @sneakypete

@corbe

I don't like mine as much as I like that one.

[sneakypete]

Are you kidding? I was helping my sister buy a CRV at the dealer last year. Honda prices are insane for the bland wallpaper paste they are selling. Then there are the add ons. Want a color, add a grand. Want a real radio, add a grand.

@Frank Cannon

I  don't get it,either. Hondas are among the most expensive in their class. I did buy a Pilot several years ago,but it was a pile of bland,plus I got tired of smelling the trash as I was hauling it to the dump,so I got rid of it. What made me the saddest was  I traded in my 3 year old VW Passat with heated leather seats and all the other options on it to get the Honda. That V-6 VW would FLY,and the V-6 Honda was a pig.

[ConstitutionRose]

@Frank Cannon

Frank,the original Power Strokes were IHC engines,and damn near indestructible. My first diesel pu was a 90 F-350 4X4 with the 7.3 Power Stroke.

Ford really screwed up when they stopped using that engine,and even though the version they are using now is supposed to be reliable,everything between the end of the IHC engine and now was junk waiting to happen.

In fact,that was why I decided to buy a 2006-2007 Chevy or GMC diesel when looking for my current diesel. The Dodge Cummings can't be beat,but they had a hell of a lot of transmission problem. The GM 6.6 was a piece of crap before they got the bugs worked out,but by 2006 they were bulletproof,and combined with a 6 speed Allison automatic trans,were ideal. The trick was finding one with the LBZ engine instead of the typical LMM engine.  The LBZ had 365 hp and 665 ft.lbs of torque,and the LMM only had 300 hp and a little better than 500 ft lbs of torque. Finally found one in Texas with less than 100k that had never been modified with a lift kit,stupid tires,or any of the other crap that indicates it has been dogged,AND it has the 3:73 limited slip gears I wanted (most seem to have 4:11 gearing) so I went to Texas and drove it  home. Owned trucks all my life,and have never loved one the way I love that thing. Never owned one that rode or drove better,either.

We have a client who rebuilds Ford diesels.  He has a parking lot as large as Walmart.  Everytime I go there to work on their computers that lot is full.  Some of trucks probably qualify as antiques, but there are a lot of newer ones there too.

[berdie]

Are you kidding? I was helping my sister buy a CRV at the dealer last year. Honda prices are insane for the bland wallpaper paste they are selling. Then there are the add ons. Want a color, add a grand. Want a real radio, add a grand.

I am surely not challenging your automotive knowledge.  It is sure to outpace mine. And maybe prices vary in different parts of the country. I don't know.   All I do know is that when I started looking for a truck Ford and Chevy were so out of my range it was crazy. Honda was half the price...with no add ons. I will say the radio sucks...but I can always replace that if I choose to do so.If I wanted a work truck I might change my mind. But American car makers are losing a big audience by not having the smaller trucks. jmho.

[sneakypete]

I am surely not challenging your automotive knowledge.  It is sure to outpace mine. And maybe prices vary in different parts of the country. I don't know.   All I do know is that when I started looking for a truck Ford and Chevy were so out of my range it was crazy. Honda was half the price...with no add ons. I will say the radio sucks...but I can always replace that if I choose to do so.If I wanted a work truck I might change my mind. But American car makers are losing a big audience by not having the smaller trucks. jmho.

@berdie

GM makes one they call a Canyon for Chevy,and a Colorado for GMC. I made the mistake of buying a V-6 Canyon. It sucked all the air off the planet,and I was willing to lose money to get rid it it. Rode like a covered wagon,had no torque at all and would come out of overdrive going up the tiniest hill,and the seats were even too narrow to make room for the console.

Traded it off on a 2016 Chev Silverado crew cab with the 5.3 V-8 and short bed,and it is a MUCH better vehicle in every respect,and only gets 1 mpg less on gas mileage than the piece of crap I traded in on it.

Which is odd,because the old S-10 PU's were great values with the OHC 4 in them,and seemed to have more power than the V-6 in the new ones. Plus they rode and drove a hell of a lot better,too. The S-10's with the 2.8 V-6 were slightly better than walking,but that only depends on how far you would have to walk.

[Frank Cannon]

@Frank Cannon

I  don't get it,either. Hondas are among the most expensive in their class. I did buy a Pilot several years ago,but it was a pile of bland,plus I got tired of smelling the trash as I was hauling it to the dump,so I got rid of it. What made me the saddest was  I traded in my 3 year old VW Passat with heated leather seats and all the other options on it to get the Honda. That V-6 VW would FLY,and the V-6 Honda was a pig.

Hondas are the saddest cars I ever have dealt with. Their interiors look like something the Soviets designed in the 70's.

[Fishrrman]

mirraflake observed:
"The love of cars in this country is dying with the older generation"

What cars produced today are "lovable"?
Most small crossover SUVs look basically the same, particularly the rooflines.

I've got a 2013 Toyota RAV4 I picked up used through their "certified used" lineup.
Runs fine, didn't cost all that much, was literally "like new" (7,400 miles), and they extend the powertrain warranty to 7 years/100,000 on the certifieds.

Not "lovable", but it'll do.
I barely put 5,000 a year on it now that I'm retired.

I gave my previous RAV4 (2005 with 160,000) to my sister. It's up over 212,000 now.