Author Topic: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution  (Read 404 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« on: November 01, 2018, 02:55:10 pm »
Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution

The question of whether birthright citizenship should be abolished is based on the faulty premise that our Constitution actually mandates it. In fact, the text of the 14th Amendment’s citizenship clause reads: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

That text has two requirements for citizenship — that an individual is born on U.S. soil; and that an individual is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when born.

“Subject to the jurisdiction” means more than simply being present in the United States. When the 14th Amendment was being debated in the Senate, Senator Lyman Trumbull, a key figure in its drafting and adoption, stated that “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States meant not “owing allegiance to anybody else.”

And Senator Jacob Howard, who introduced the language of the clause on the floor of the Senate, contended that it should be interpreted in the same way as the requirement of the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which afforded citizenship to “all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power.” ...

More at link https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/08/24/should-birthright-citizenship-be-abolished/birthright-citizenship-is-not-actually-in-the-constitution?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0r5w15kSCn1Jz_738R1xAqxFWLBRcTE6rRh0VyFOwmfiHDw5Drlmj8nJY

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 11:57:58 pm »
BTTT

Oceander

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Re: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2018, 12:57:22 am »
First, Mr. Trumbull was speaking in regard to the “wild Indians” - that is, members of tribes that lived within the territories, but outside of any state.  Second, Mr. Trumbull did not define allegiance.  So it is only reasonable to proceed on the basis that he would have agreed with the long-standing doctrines of allegiance that then existed.  Under these doctrines, as summarized in great detail in US v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), allegiance was owed at all times by an individual to the sovereign who had control over the territory where that individual was present at the time - allegiance meaning in essence the obligation to follow all of the laws of that sovereign - unless some recognized exception applied.  As set out in the Wong Kim Ark case, ambassadors were, as a matter of ancient custom and international law, granted immunity from local law when they were officially present in a foreign country because the allegiance the ambassador would otherwise have owed to the sovereign of that foreign country would have been antithetical to the interests of the sovereign who sent the ambassador overseas in the first place.  See p. 685. 

The reason why multiple allegiance was an issue with the “wild Indians” and other recognized Indian tribes was that, because the US had recognized the tribes as being quasi-sovereigns, a member of a tribe who was present within the lands controlled by that tribe would owe allegiance to that tribe based on presence and was therefore not fully subject to allegiance to the US, despite the fact that the US also otherwise exercised aspects of sovereignty over the same territory. 

Put into context, it becomes clear that the issue was whether there was some overriding immunity that a person possessed on account of his relationship with one sovereign that prevented him from owing complete allegiance to the sovereign who controlled the territory where the individual currently resided. 

In the case of “wild Indians” and foreign ambassadors, there clearly is an immunity, based on a relationship to another sovereign, that the US recognizes as such, and which allows such an individual to avoid having to obey all the laws of the sovereign who governs the territory where he resides.

In the case of temporary sojourners or ordinary visitors, no such immunity exists, and those persons owe allegiance to the sovereign who controls the territory they are visiting, in the sense that they are obligated to obey all of that sovereign’s laws without exception, and can be prosecuted for failing to do so.

That is the case with your average foreigner who enters the US, whether legally or not:  he or she is required to follow all of the laws of the US and of the state in which they are present, without exception, and can be prosecuted for failing to obey.  That is, they owe full allegiance to the US when they are physically present in the US. 

Thus, when put in context, Sen. Trumbull’s remark does not support the proposition for which it is being cited here. That is, it does not undercut the fact that the 14th amendment granted birthplace citizenship to everyone other than a select few people. 

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2018, 01:41:34 am »
Quote
Birthright Citizenship and Dual Citizenship: Harbingers of Administrative Tyranny

The following is adapted from a speech delivered at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar on February 12, 2008, in Phoenix, Arizona.

Birthright Citizenship—the policy whereby the children of illegal aliens born within the geographical limits of the United States are entitled to American citizenship—is a great magnet for illegal immigration. Many believe that this policy is an explicit command of the Constitution, consistent with the British common law system. But this is simply not true.

The framers of the Constitution were, of course, well-versed in the British common law, having learned its essential principles from William Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England. As such, they knew that the very concept of citizenship was unknown in British common law. Blackstone speaks only of “birthright subjectship” or “birthright allegiance,” never using the terms citizen or citizenship. The idea of birthright subjectship is derived from feudal law. It is the relation of master and servant; all who are born within the protection of the king owe perpetual allegiance as a “debt of gratitude.” According to Blackstone, this debt is “intrinsic” and “cannot be forefeited, cancelled, or altered.” Birthright subjectship under the common law is thus the doctrine of perpetual allegiance.

America’s Founders rejected this doctrine. The Declaration of Independence, after all, solemnly proclaims that “the good People of these Colonies. . . are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved.” According to Blackstone, the common law regards such an act as “high treason.” So the common law—the feudal doctrine of perpetual allegiance—could not possibly serve as the ground of American (i.e., republican) citizenship. Indeed, the idea is too preposterous to entertain!...

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/birthright-citizenship-and-dual-citizenship-harbingers-of-administrative-tyranny/

Good background.

Oceander

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Re: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2018, 01:45:32 am »
Good background.

Sadly, he seems to have not read, or to have misunderstood, most of the source materials.  The justices who wrote the Supreme Court’s opinion in Wong Kim Ark did not. 

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Birthright Citizenship Is Not Actually in the Constitution
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2018, 01:47:59 am »
Sadly, he seems to have not read, or to have misunderstood, most of the source materials.  The justices who wrote the Supreme Court’s opinion in Wong Kim Ark did not.

Not surprisingly, you and I have very different opinions on this issue and Dr. Ehler's accuracy.