Trump administration has not settled on a plan for what to do if caravan arrives at the US border

[Silver Pines]

The truth is, Trump was right when he talked about "shithole" countries.  There are a lot of countries in the world that fit that description, and where economic opportunities are few and far between.  Americans live better than 90% of the rest of the world.  At least.  If the standard for letting people into this country was "they just want a better life", we'd literally be opening ourselves up to billions.  And I have zero desire to do that.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Yes, and we wouldn't be able to withstand it.  I don't think so, anyway.

"They just want a better life" is an understandable sentiment, but that's the problem.  It's sentiment.  Mexico didn't offer asylum because it knows that too many people here will rend their clothes over the poor migrants' plight.  I'm really tired of being the world's sucker, and if this sounds like a vent, that's why.

[XenaLee]

I don't think that's true.  "Sealing" the border is basically a red herring.  A $25B wall, backed by a reasonable number of border patrol, can reduce the flow of illegal immigrants massively.

In contrast, unless you support holding all those asylum seekers in detention where they can be prevented from moving about inside the country, trying to track everyone who came in would be far more expensive, and would be a never-ending problem.

This is basically what happens already.  And 90% of them simply "skip parole" and disappear into the country.  They then use fake names, and that's it.  Maybe some fraction of them are eventually caught and given the boot, but the overwhelming majority aren't.  As a practical matter, it is either detention, or let them come in freely.  There is no effective middle ground possible.

The only way to perhaps prevent that is by introducing and implementing a lot more biometric scanning for employment, etc., though it would necessarily have to apply to citizens as well.  And even if you could pass that legislation tomorrow, it would takes years to implement all the technology and infrastructure to support it, which makes it an irrelevancy in terms of how we handle these people currently.

I'm getting the dire feeling that we've all been conned/played.  It's been almost two years and none of that border wall has been built, no funding secured, nada.  In addition, almost 400,000 illegals have already, just this year, made it across our borders ...and via our idiotic catch and release program, are God knows where now.  Starting to feel like we've been duped....

again.

@Maj. Bill Martin

[Silver Pines]

Exactly @Maj. Bill Martin and so obvious it literally amazes me how many people here are demanding to see the blueprints of 'the plan.' 

The fact is there are probably a number of plans, all subject to change as the situation changes.  To reveal every nuance and detail of all the contingencies and plans would be enabling the enemy.

I consider that we are lucky that we have a President who is determined to keep this horde of unfortunate people out of the country.  Sorry that they are poor and live in 'shit hole' countries and also that nobody knows how many terrorists are in this group.  They are mostly male with a few women with babies thrown in for photo ops.

But liberals are still criticizing Trump for his 'heartless' refusal to let them overrun our country.  Last night Tucker Carlson talked to this guy crying over them and Tucker could not get him to answer as to how many people he would personally take in if they entered.  The best this guy could do was say that he would take them all in ... if he could ... but, well, he can't actually take any.

I firmly believe this is a George Soros funded operation designed to do exactly what it is doing:  undermine Trump just prior to the election.

I would hope people are smarter than that, but after reading many posts here, I am beginning to wonder.

@Emjay, I've never put a soul on ignore before, but I'm close to doing it with you, and I don't mean peekaboo-fake ignore.   You drag grudges from one thread to another, and almost every post is sniping and throwing shade at other members and the content of their posts.  It's to the point of being insufferable.

[skeeter]

@Jazzhead any comment?

http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2

[XenaLee]

@Jazzhead any comment?

http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2

Requesting asylum from America would not be a legal act by these Hondurans, considering that the first nation they should be requesting it from is Guatemala.  (if I'm reading that right)

In other words, the Member State may consider such
applications as inadmissible.

[skeeter]

Requesting asylum from America would not be a legal act by these Hondurans, considering that the first nation they should be requesting it from is Guatemala.  (if I'm reading that right)

Thats how I read it as well.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead any comment?

http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2

Here's an article that provides a good explanation of the issues involved:    Should asylum seekers heading to the U.S. stay in Mexico?

It appears that we have a "first safe country" agreement at the current time only with Canada.    It may well make sense to try to reach a similar deal with Mexico.   

[skeeter]

Here's an article that provides a good explanation of the issues involved:    Should asylum seekers heading to the U.S. stay in Mexico?

It appears that we have a "first safe country" agreement at the current time only with Canada.    It may well make sense to try to reach a similar deal with Mexico.

I'll read your link, but the concept of First Safe Country is defined by UNHCR. Its not a matter of discrete agreements with individual countries, we're either a signatory of the UN treaty or we're not.

What we have with Canada is a Third Country agreement. Different matter.

[INVAR]

I'm getting the dire feeling that we've all been conned/played.  It's been almost two years and none of that border wall has been built, no funding secured, nada.  In addition, almost 400,000 illegals have already, just this year, made it across our borders ...and via our idiotic catch and release program, are God knows where now.  Starting to feel like we've been duped....

again.

We have been.

Now, do some math - the American population that has generational roots in this country - currently have a NEGATIVE replacement birthrate to maintain the existing culture which we have already surrendered to the Left some time ago.    We are at like 1.71 or 1.80.  2.11 is necessary just to maintain the existing culture for ONE succeeding generation.

The Squatters from the third world that are already in-country with a huge chunk on welfare, are outbreeding us 8 to 1 and Muslim refugees that have been let in here in the last 10 years, are outbreeding us 13 to 1.

Simple numbers here tell the frightening truth that our own children are not going to have a country like the one we grew up in, and they face a horrifying future among a people who want them debased, enslaved or annihilated, notwithstanding the desire and comfort these 'migrants' have with government totalitarianism and imposed Socialism.  They will vote for that imposition themselves.    If you read Camp of the Saints, you know how this all ends.

And that dear, is exactly the fate our children will face, maybe some of us who are still in our 40s and 50s will see that fate visited on us.

Open borders to a welfare state was the death knell for our society.

[jpsb]

@Maj. Bill Martin 

We already have an immigrant problem here brought on largely by 8 years of Obama

Don't forget George W Bush <spit>

[XenaLee]

We have been.

Now, do some math - the American population that has generational roots in this country - currently have a NEGATIVE replacement birthrate to maintain the existing culture which we have already surrendered to the Left some time ago.    We are at like 1.1 or 1.0.  1.4 is necessary just to maintain the existing culture for ONE succeeding generation.

The Squatters from the third world that are already in-country with a huge chunk on welfare, are outbreeding us 8 to 1 and Muslim refugees that have been let in here in the last 10 years, are outbreeding us 13 to 1.

Simple numbers here tell the frightening truth that our own children are not going to have a country like the one we grew up in, and they face a horrifying future among a people who want them debased, enslaved or annihilated, notwithstanding the desire and comfort these 'migrants' have with government totalitarianism and imposed Socialism.  They will vote for that imposition themselves.    If you read Camp of the Saints, you know how this all ends.

And that dear, is exactly the fate our children will face, maybe some of us who are still in our 40s and 50s will see that fate visited on us.

Open borders to a welfare state was the death knell for our society.

And who (but a SOS leftie) can not notice how the rabid left (Democrats) have been "progressively" demonizing whitey for decades now..... only after Obama, it became much, much worse (first they came for the whitey cops....).

Demonizing especially the white guys (calling them old, senile, outdated, etc.)  that founded this nation and have kept it free and the greatest country on the planet, that is.   Burning the US flag, symbolically crapping on (amending it all to Hell) the US Constitution, while uttering possibilities of overturning the BOR.

Yeah.  It's coming.   You'd have to be morally, socially, intellectually and literally blind to not know and see that.

[jpsb]

No, it doesn't.  It takes a simple majority for most things. The GOP has what it needs.

Yes it does, cloture for legislation is 60 votes.

[jpsb]

How do you think two SCOTUS appointments were confirmed and a tax bill was passed?  You really can’t be that naïve.

You are the naive one. Harry Reid changed the rule for judges to a simple majority. Mitch changed the rules for a Supreme Count appointment to a simple majority. The rules for legislation have not
been changed. Trump complains about that all the time. You need 60 votes in the Senate to move
legislation.

Google cloture rule and you will see

If everyone is present, it takes 51 votes, or 50 votes if the vice president votes to break the tie. Under the current rules of the Senate–which can be altered by a majority vote–it takes 60 votes to proceed to a vote on a bill when some senators want to continue debate forever, or filibuster.

[XenaLee]

You are the naive one. Harry Reid changed the rule for judges to a simple majority. Mitch changed the rules for a Supreme Count appointment to a simple majority. The rules for legislation have not
been changed. Trump complains about that all the time. You need 60 votes in the Senate to move
legislation.

Which is... from all appearances.... a convenient excuse for the RINOs and for Trump.... for not getting anything passed (like funding for 'da wall').

If they really wanted to, they could just change the rules, mid-game, like the Democrats always do.  Right?  It's only fair.

[Emjay]

You are the naive one. Harry Reid changed the rule for judges to a simple majority. Mitch changed the rules for a Supreme Count appointment to a simple majority. The rules for legislation have not
been changed. Trump complains about that all the time. You need 60 votes in the Senate to move
legislation.

Google cloture rule and you will see

If everyone is present, it takes 51 votes, or 50 votes if the vice president votes to break the tie. Under the current rules of the Senate–which can be altered by a majority vote–it takes 60 votes to proceed to a vote on a bill when some senators want to continue debate forever, or filibuster.

Nice attempt at sanity @jpsb   I just got a flu shot and it did not hurt as much as reading all the egregiously stupid comments on this thread.

[aligncare]

It’s always 5 O’clock somewhere, Em.

[libertybele]

Based on what evidence do you doubt his commitment to protect Americans.

I’ve seen no evidence to date to support your skepticism.

@aligncare, one thing that he has done that makes me very skeptical was his willingness to grant amnesty to DACA recipients. I do think so far, for the most part, he's done a great job, but his weakness on the DACA issued surprised me. I want him to succeed; by all means the leftist b.s. and corruption needs to be halted. To be very honest, this situation at the border scares the hell out of me. Especially since the UN is involved.

As I've stated several times, so far we only know that he's in agreement to let them apply for asylum and be placed.  Some in the US.

We do know that some migrants have overwhelmed the Mexican police and are stealing from groceries stores; not exactly a controlled group ... still heading our way.

What we also know is that 1200 guards that will be placed or are placed at the border are unarmed.

So ... with 14,000 coming at us with reports confirming some are from the Middle East and some are dangerous criminals ... what the heck else is he doing??

So we sit and wait to be invaded??

[skeeter]

@aligncare, one thing that he has done that makes me very skeptical was his willingness to grant amnesty to DACA recipients. I do think so far, for the most part, he's done a great job, but his weakness on the DACA issued surprised me. I want him to succeed; by all means the leftist b.s. and corruption needs to be halted. To be very honest, this situation at the border scares the hell out of me. Especially since the UN is involved.

As I've stated several times, so far we only know that he's in agreement to let them apply for asylum and be placed.  Some in the US.

We do know that some migrants have overwhelmed the Mexican police and are stealing from groceries stores; not exactly a controlled group ... still heading our way.

What we also know is that 1200 guards that will be placed or are placed at the border are unarmed.

So ... with 14,000 coming at us with reports confirming some are from the Middle East and some are dangerous criminals ... what the heck else is he doing??

So we sit and wait to be invaded??

I don't mean to minimize the situation - I care as much about this situation as anyone - but from what I've read out of the ~1200 people in last spring's caravan, a grand total of 130 ended up applying for asylum. And all of those were rejected.

Maybe the rest slipped in outside the points of entry, I dunno. But the caravan didn't achieve its declared goals.

[libertybele]

I don't mean to minimize the situation - I care as much about this situation as anyone - but from what I've read out of the ~1200 people in last spring's caravan, a grand total of 130 ended up applying for asylum. And all of those were rejected.

Maybe the rest slipped in outside the points of entry, I dunno. But the caravan didn't achieve its declared goals.

In comparison this is a massive mob and a concentrated effort to invade. Several hundred compared to thousands and who knows how many more are on their way.  One thing for sure; word gets out that the US isn't doing anything and once they get to the border they can apply for asylum, they will continue to come.  What's stopping them?  If Trump were to announce that we will take NO refugees ... that would be  a deterrent.  He hasn't done that.  He's agreed to let the UN process them and place them.

On top of that ... (and correct me if I'm wrong) ... we still have chain migration ... a family member makes it into the U.S...more will come.

[Suppressed]

I consider that we are lucky that we have a President who is determined to keep this horde of unfortunate people out of the country.  Sorry that they are poor and live in 'shit hole' countries and also that nobody knows how many terrorists are in this group.  They are mostly male with a few women with babies thrown in for photo ops.

If he's so "determined", then why have hundreds of thousands already crossed this year?

If he's so "determined", then why did he pre-emptively attack Congress, which could have funded his wall?

If he's so "determined", then why is he using no deterrence techniques to dissuade this mob (e.g., warnings of consequences)?


Evidently, he's "determined" yet incompetent.

[jpsb]

Which is... from all appearances.... a convenient excuse for the RINOs and for Trump.... for not getting anything passed (like funding for 'da wall').

If they really wanted to, they could just change the rules, mid-game, like the Democrats always do.  Right?  It's only fair.

Trump has been begging McConnell to do just that. If we hold the house and the Senate I think
Mitch will grow a set and change the rules.

[jpsb]

Nice attempt at sanity @jpsb   I just got a flu shot and it did not hurt as much as reading all the egregiously stupid comments on this thread.

Never get a flu shot, silly girl, now you have the flu and will spread it to others. Plus it is only 10%
effective against the real flu and it degrades your natural defenses. Do not get any more flu shots
and that's an order. LOL

[libertybele]

Trump has been begging McConnell to do just that. If we hold the house and the Senate I think
Mitch will grow a set and change the rules.

??? You can't be serious??  The GOP has held the majority since the last 2 years of Bammy's reign of terror till present and NOTHING has been done on this issue.  You cannot vote in the same lame leadership (Ryan and McConnell) and expect a different result.  You cannot have a President who balks at those in the Freedom Caucus in the House and expects the rest of the House to give you $$$ that you are seeking.

This is a showdown.  Pres. Trump is being tested and soon all of his supporters, the rest of America and the world will know exactly where he stands on immigration.  He is commander in chief and this IS an invasion.  He has every right and authority to act.

[Emjay]

Never get a flu shot, silly girl, now you have the flu and will spread it to others. Plus it is only 10%
effective against the real flu and it degrades your natural defenses. Do not get any more flu shots
and that's an order. LOL

Maybe men should be denied the vote also, if they propagate all the silly propaganda against flu shots.

I have real personal evidence; the one year I didn't get the shot, I got the flu.  Nope, never again.

[edpc]

You are the naive one. Harry Reid changed the rule for judges to a simple majority. Mitch changed the rules for a Supreme Count appointment to a simple majority. The rules for legislation have not
been changed. Trump complains about that all the time. You need 60 votes in the Senate to move
legislation.

Google cloture rule and you will see

If everyone is present, it takes 51 votes, or 50 votes if the vice president votes to break the tie. Under the current rules of the Senate–which can be altered by a majority vote–it takes 60 votes to proceed to a vote on a bill when some senators want to continue debate forever, or filibuster.

Washington (CNN) — The Senate has passed a procedural vote on the tax bill that allows debate to begin on the measure with a final vote expected late Thursday or Friday.
The procedural vote passed 52-48.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/tax-bill-vote/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fr.search.yahoo.com%2F_ylt%3DAwrJ7JQv5dBbBhUAtWBx.9w4%3B_ylu%3DX3oDMTBydDI5cXVuBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--%2FRV%3D2%2FRE%3D1540445616%2FRO%3D10%2FRU%3Dhttps%253a%252f%252fwww.cnn.com%252f2017%252f11%252f29%252fpolitics%252ftax-bill-vote%252findex.html%2FRK%3D2%2FRS%3DRXmxudlB02EOlOOyow9wFSwPCPY-


With Vice President Mike Pence presiding and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin on hand, the Senate then voted 51-48 in favor of the bill. Again, with no Democratic support.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republican-tax-bill-house-senate-trump-n831161


Funny how they didn’t need cloture for the tax bill.