Dow plummets 750 points

[Frank Cannon]

There is a reason the F-series has been the best selling truck in the US for over 40 years in a row.  And it has now become the number one selling vehicle in the world.

Yeah, and if it wasn't the only thing they could build they might not be circling the drain now.

[RoosGirl]

Yeah, and if it wasn't the only thing they could build they might not be circling the drain now.

Don't know how being able to build a decent quality truck doesn't translate into not building shit cars.  They must be subbing their engineering out to China now.

[Frank Cannon]

Don't know how being able to build a decent quality truck doesn't translate into not building shit cars.  They must be subbing their engineering out to China now.

I don't even know it is a quality issue with F150 sales. Chevy 1500 gets better marks for quality in head to heads. They are just a little more expensive. Truck buyers are cheapskates.

[RoosGirl]

I don't even know it is a quality issue with F150 sales. Chevy 1500 gets better marks for quality in head to heads. They are just a little more expensive. Truck buyers are cheapskates.

It's hard to keep up, but have heard over the last 10 years that Chevy quality just isn't what it used to be.  That initial quality may be good, but they aren't as long lasting.  I don't know if that's really the case or not, just going by what the mechanic I used to go to told me.  But, if that is the case I wouldn't pay more for a Chevy truck either, especially if it's really a work truck.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

It's hard to keep up, but have heard over the last 10 years that Chevy quality just isn't what it used to be.  That initial quality may be good, but they aren't as long lasting.  I don't know if that's really the case or not, just going by what the mechanic I used to go to told me.  But, if that is the case I wouldn't pay more for a Chevy truck either, especially if it's really a work truck.

So he said that quality has gone up?  Darn sure couldn't have gone down.

[goodwithagun]

Corrections are good.

[RoosGirl]

So he said that quality has gone up?  Darn sure couldn't have gone down.

Like I said, this was back about 10 years ago.  I was asking his opinion on a 2008 Ford Expedition vs the the Chevy Suburban.  I have a 99 Chevy Blazer and he said whatever year it was they they updated the design on those that the quality of Chevy in general really went down.  The 99 Chevy Blazer has been a champ for me too.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

It’s been right in front of you, for the past week. Why do you think you he’s campaigning in places like Topeka and Council Bluffs.  He’s talking about things like ethanol, because they’re taking a beating with soy beans and pork.  There’s no reason he would need to stump for people in these solid red areas, if the tariffs were not causing problems politically.

you are obviously on the wrong thread.

The one we are all on reference an article which says
"Stocks sank on Wednesday as a steep decline in tech shares and worries of rapidly rising rates sent Wall Street on pace for its worst day in months."

It contains zilch on what you are claiming as 'right in front of you'.

[edpc]

you are obviously on the wrong thread.

The one we are all on reference an article which says
"Stocks sank on Wednesday as a steep decline in tech shares and worries of rapidly rising rates sent Wall Street on pace for its worst day in months."

It contains zilch on what you are claiming as 'right in front of you'.

You asked about tariffs and the response to them was retaliation by China on soy and pork. The areas where he was recently campaigning are directly affected by them.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You said that, not me.  I said it's all a contributing factor to layoffs.  Thinking that, what appears to us as a smal percentage, tarrif has no effect on a business that's in the business of buying steel is as silly as thinking their poor business decisions has no effect on the business.

if it had the effect you implying it does, ALL the companies in that business of making cars would suffer, not just one.

yet you claim the entire business suffers when all we see is reduced profits from a single company in that business.

your claim has no teeth.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Here Are 202 Companies Hurt by Trump's Tariffs
https://reason.com/archives/2018/09/14/tariff-victims

Are you claiming all of these companies have reduction in long term profits specifically due to tariffs?  There is such an incredibly short time period to make that declaration.

By the same token, virtually any capital expenditure would cause a reduction in profits.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You asked about tariffs and the response to them was retaliation by China on soy and pork. The areas where he was recently campaigning are directly affected by them.

Do I have to quote the article back to you?.

I made a statement that there was not anything in it concerning a plunge due to tariffs and you said it was.

Article says tech stocks and rising rates caused it.  and this was CNBC, who would most certainly cite something like tariffs if it were responsible, as we all know.

you want to take this discussion on tariffs to a different thread, that is fine.

just don't try the hijacking attempt next time.

[RoosGirl]

if it had the effect you implying it does, ALL the companies in that business of making cars would suffer, not just one.

yet you claim the entire business suffers when all we see is reduced profits from a single company in that business.

your claim has no teeth.

Right, so well run companies aren't able to better withstand a little stormy weather than poorly run companies.   

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Right, so well run companies aren't able to better withstand a little stormy weather than poorly run companies.   

unsure what that means.

better be a bit more explicit.

we were talking about your claim that the tariffs hurt the auto manufacturing business when a single auto maker has announced, even though it had announced other issues previously for poor short term profits, that tariffs are costing it $1bn.

[RoosGirl]

unsure what that means.

better be a bit more explicit.

we were talking about your claim that the tariffs hurt the auto manufacturing business when a single auto maker has announced, even though it had announced other issues previously for poor short term profits, that tariffs are costing it $1bn.

I'm sure if you go back and chew on the whole conversation a bit it'll be clearer.

[Frank Cannon]

It's hard to keep up, but have heard over the last 10 years that Chevy quality just isn't what it used to be.  That initial quality may be good, but they aren't as long lasting.  I don't know if that's really the case or not, just going by what the mechanic I used to go to told me.  But, if that is the case I wouldn't pay more for a Chevy truck either, especially if it's really a work truck.

Every tradesman and contractor I know runs GM trucks except for one and he is a die hard Ford guy. He almost gave up on them though when Ford had that huge Power Stroke Diesel problem in the 6 liters. They were a effing disaster. Those were failing around 20K miles without warning and were never right after the fix. One thing is for sure. No one buys Rams and the few that tried one in a moment of cheapness regretted it immediately.

[edpc]

I made a statement that there was not anything in it concerning a plunge due to tariffs and you said it was.

No, I'm pretty sure my opening comment pinned this bloated market on the monetary policy of the previous admin.  Nobody mentioned tariffs in the thread, until you did.

Based on other comments in the last 3 pages, it seems you're having some trouble following along with other conversations.  Keep chasing your tail, if you like, but I'm done with the tedium.

[Frank Cannon]

No, I'm pretty sure my opening comment pinned this bloated market on the monetary policy of the previous admin.  Nobody mentioned tariffs in the thread, until you did.

Based on other comments in the last 3 pages, it seems you're having some trouble following along with other conversations.  Keep chasing your tail, if you like, but I'm done with the tedium.

I found an old New York Post from 1986 in the back of my garage. I can scan some random business articles and send them to you so that you can argue some more about how the Trump tariffs are so bad.

[edpc]

I found an old New York Post from 1986 in the back of my garage. I can scan some random business articles and send them to you so that you can argue some more about how the Trump tariffs are so bad.

I'm glad it survived the tragic soap holder accident.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I'm sure if you go back and chew on the whole conversation a bit it'll be clearer.

no, you are not.

and have nothing on that claim of yours but hyperbole.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No, I'm pretty sure my opening comment pinned this bloated market on the monetary policy of the previous admin.  Nobody mentioned tariffs in the thread, until you did.

Based on other comments in the last 3 pages, it seems you're having some trouble following along with other conversations.  Keep chasing your tail, if you like, but I'm done with the tedium.

Yeah, the tariffs are all around us in the news.

Here's Bloomberg today

Bloomberg: Trump Tariffs Not Costing U.S. Jobs as Free Traders Claimed

Employment in metal-using industries has risen since the tariffs went into effect last spring. Employment in fabricated metals products rose 1.44 percent from April through September, according to the jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics released on Oct. 5. [Emphasis added]

That compares favorably with the increase for overall manufacturing (0.70 percent) and the overall private sector (0.76 percent). In the machinery sector, another big consumer of metal, jobs increased by 1.29 percent over the period. [Emphasis added]

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/11/bloomberg-trump-tariffs-not-costing-u-s-jobs-as-free-traders-claimed/

[edpc]

Yeah, the tariffs are all around us in the news.

Here's Bloomberg today

Bloomberg: Trump Tariffs Not Costing U.S. Jobs as Free Traders Claimed

Employment in metal-using industries has risen since the tariffs went into effect last spring. Employment in fabricated metals products rose 1.44 percent from April through September, according to the jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics released on Oct. 5. [Emphasis added]

That compares favorably with the increase for overall manufacturing (0.70 percent) and the overall private sector (0.76 percent). In the machinery sector, another big consumer of metal, jobs increased by 1.29 percent over the period. [Emphasis added]

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/11/bloomberg-trump-tariffs-not-costing-u-s-jobs-as-free-traders-claimed/

Again.....I’m talking about the fallout from the tariffs, which is having an effect on midwestern farmers who went his way.  Even Sen. Ernst agreed.  If it wasn’t a problem, there wouldn’t have been a bailout proposal.  If left in place long enough, the tariffs will result in the net loss of jobs in that industry.  They always do.  See the Bush 43 steel and Obama tire tariffs as recent examples.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/joni-ernst-trumps-tariffs-are-hurting-american-farmers

https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/09/news/economy/trump-farmers-china-tariffs/index.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-happened-the-last-time-the-us-imposed-tariffs-on-steel-2018-03-08

https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/obama-china-tire-tariff/index.html

[goodwithagun]

I found an old New York Post from 1986 in the back of my garage. I can scan some random business articles and send them to you so that you can argue some more about how the Trump tariffs are so bad.

Quit rubbing your date nights in our faces.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Again.....I’m talking about the fallout from the tariffs, which is having an effect on midwestern farmers who went his way.  Even Sen. Ernst agreed.  If it wasn’t a problem, there wouldn’t have been a bailout proposal.  If left in place long enough, the tariffs will result in the net loss of jobs in that industry.  They always do.  See the Bush 43 steel and Obama tire tariffs as recent examples.

Ok, let's dissect these one by one.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/joni-ernst-trumps-tariffs-are-hurting-american-farmers

Your first article is from April of this year.  This is before ANY tariff increases other than on solar panels and washing machines.  How do you figure that is news as it was PRIOR to any type of new tariffs went into effect?  Or are you claiming that the farmers were hurt by making imported solar panels and washing machines more expensive?

Can we look instead at actual data instead of posturing by someone from the big farming state of Iowa?  We know they just defend their own, don't we?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/09/news/economy/trump-farmers-china-tariffs/index.html

This article is not worth the effort to bring it up.  It also is from April and has no data whatsoever from it.

Ironically, it does REFUTE what you said about the long term effects being negative as it says "And, in the end, they're going to be much stronger than they are right now."  That is no negative, is it?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-happened-the-last-time-the-us-imposed-tariffs-on-steel-2018-03-08

Another April article, and one more that has zero data to support anything you claim.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/obama-china-tire-tariff/index.html

And finally, the worst for last.  A January article.

Let's just see how it folds out with real data on the tariffs in question, such as the article which I relayed, rather than the hyperbole of speculation.

[Frank Cannon]

Ford sucks.