Author Topic: Another Prominent Anti-Trump Republican Just Went Down In Minnesota. Here's Why This Keeps Happening  (Read 23790 times)

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Offline INVAR

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How does an agnostic or atheist even talk about the concept of "evil?"   It's just a made-up concept.

If there is no God, there is no good, and if there is no opposition to God and His Laws, there is no evil.

When the foundation of truth is removed, there is nothing but air.

As we are discovering, sans God and biblical morality as a standard people are individually governed by; "evil" becomes whatever men say that "evil" is.   Own a gun?  Own property?  Believe in God? Believe in merit?   In secular Collectivist societies; those things are always declared to be 'evil' and purged via arbitrary 'laws'.

Likewise what is 'good' changes with the wind too.  Perversion, lies, graft, corruption, assassination, mass murder... all become 'good' as men redefine it to suit their own stations.

Good and evil then become whatever men say they are and everyone does what is right in his own eyes.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline musiclady

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As we are discovering, sans God and biblical morality as a standard people are individually governed by; "evil" becomes whatever men say that "evil" is.   Own a gun?  Own property?  Believe in God? Believe in merit?   In secular Collectivist societies; those things are always declared to be 'evil' and purged via arbitrary 'laws'.

Likewise what is 'good' changes with the wind too.  Perversion, lies, graft, corruption, assassination, mass murder... all become 'good' as men redefine it to suit their own stations.

Good and evil then become whatever men say they are and everyone does what is right in his own eyes.

I used to believe that only on leftist websites the concepts of good and evil would be so distorted and that good would be attacked as evil and evil supported as good.

For me, this is the crux of the problem.  There no longer is a 'side' where the truth is still defended by the majority and where we are not under attack for what used to be the basis of conservative thought and belief.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DB

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As we are discovering, sans God and biblical morality as a standard people are individually governed by; "evil" becomes whatever men say that "evil" is.   Own a gun?  Own property?  Believe in God? Believe in merit?   In secular Collectivist societies; those things are always declared to be 'evil' and purged via arbitrary 'laws'.

Likewise what is 'good' changes with the wind too.  Perversion, lies, graft, corruption, assassination, mass murder... all become 'good' as men redefine it to suit their own stations.

Good and evil then become whatever men say they are and everyone does what is right in his own eyes.

Good is anything that damages their enemies. Evil is anything that damages them.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Means and truth irrelevant. Only results matter. 100% tyranny. The very definition of.

Offline INVAR

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Good is anything that damages their enemies. Evil is anything that damages them.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Means and truth irrelevant. Only results matter. 100% tyranny. The very definition of.

Exactly.

Adroit.

Perfectly stated.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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I used to believe that only on leftist websites the concepts of good and evil would be so distorted and that good would be attacked as evil and evil supported as good.

For me, this is the crux of the problem.  There no longer is a 'side' where the truth is still defended by the majority and where we are not under attack for what used to be the basis of conservative thought and belief.

O Jerusalem! How I longed... But you would not....

Now we know exactly how that happens.

Offline TomSea

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Who beat him, Jeff Johnson (overthrow the status quo) is a good guy but it is a tight race with the Dem candidate leading. The last I saw it was about 5 percentage points but hopefully, the poll is wrong or his constituency turns out. MN had around 70% for the Pres. election, leading the nation, midterm obviously, will be somewhat lower.

! No longer available

For being such a Blue state, actually, the Republicans were the power until the end of World War II, some stat like that.

But Pawlenty won and Pawlenty endorsed Trump originally and withdrew it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:35:08 am by TomSea »

Offline INVAR

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O Jerusalem! How I longed... But you would not....

Now we know exactly how that happens.

Yes we do.

Among other things history teaches that this people willfully pretend cannot happen here.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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Yes we do.

Among other things history teaches that this people willfully pretend cannot happen here.

It is happening even now, and has been for a long, long time. A people does not lose its moral sense overnight. It has just become so evident it can no longer be denied. I grieve for what will come.

Offline INVAR

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It is happening even now, and has been for a long, long time. A people does not lose its moral sense overnight. It has just become so evident it can no longer be denied. I grieve for what will come.

Yup.  But a witness we still have to leave, so that they have no excuse in That Day.

They were warned.

But they would not heed.

Instead, they will bite chunks out of your flesh if they could.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Frank Cannon

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It is happening even now, and has been for a long, long time. A people does not lose its moral sense overnight. It has just become so evident it can no longer be denied. I grieve for what will come.

Do you think it started back when Ben Franklin had a thing for underage girls or later than that?

Offline INVAR

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Yeah. I can just effing imagine how trained you are....



Yes Frank, that's it. 

I'm actually much scrawnier and smaller than that dude.

I aspire to be more like this guy - a real bulldog and master of the arts:

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline aligncare

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@sneakypete represents the best of the American experiment. The ideal that the founders envisioned; a government that respects individual freedom and liberty to live one’s life according to the individual’s conscience, a life free from coercion by government or by a state church or by society.

 :beer: sneakypete

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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So I will not be speaking to you or about you again.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all count on this @sneakypete ?

Offline sneakypete

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Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all count on this @sneakypete ?

@Right_in_Virginia

No kidding. He's not going to go away,though. He has nothing to live for without Trump.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@INVAR @musiclady

I'm honestly curious about something:

Are you folks saying that it is impossible for someone to have a good moral code unless they have faith in (the Judeo-Christian) God?

Offline musiclady

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@INVAR @musiclady

I'm honestly curious about something:

Are you folks saying that it is impossible for someone to have a good moral code unless they have faith in (the Judeo-Christian) God?

Absolutely not.

But all that is good comes from (the Judeo-Christian) God, so anyone who does good or lives morally is reflecting the fact that they are made in His image....... whether they understand that or not.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Absolutely not.

But all that is good comes from (the Judeo-Christian) God, so anyone who does good or lives morally is reflecting the fact that they are made in His image....... whether they understand that or not.

Fine. But if someone can be a good and moral person without believing in God at all simply because they are made in his image, then I don't understand:

How does an agnostic or atheist even talk about the concept of "evil?"   It's just a made-up concept.


Offline Right_in_Virginia

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So, he is always on Ignore (one of two here, the other one who just stabs me with her hatpin

Let the record show @musiclady the only hat I wear is a MAGA cap --- and we don't need no stinkin' hat pins for them!   :laugh:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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@INVAR @musiclady

I'm honestly curious about something:

Are you folks saying that it is impossible for someone to have a good moral code unless they have faith in (the Judeo-Christian) God?

Yes.  Yes they are ... and always have. @Maj. Bill Martin  Not only faith in the Judea-Christian God, but faith according to their rules.

Offline musiclady

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Fine. But if someone can be a good and moral person without believing in God at all simply because they are made in his image, then I don't understand:

Fair question....

To an agnostic or atheist, who doesn't believe in God, or doesn't acknowledge Biblical truth, the concept of evil shouldn't even exist.  If man is the sole arbiter of what is right and there is no absolute standard, there is no evil.

An example of that may be the leftist concept that began in the '60's........ "If it feels good, do it."   When you get to the core of that concept, anything you want to do is OK if you want to do it.  There is no right or wrong.  So, if I feel like cheating on my spouse, punching someone in the face, or killing my unborn child because he or she is an inconvenience, there is no standard to say that it is right or wrong, or evil.    It's just a made up concept.

Does that make any sense?
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Fair question....

To an agnostic or atheist, who doesn't believe in God, or doesn't acknowledge Biblical truth, the concept of evil shouldn't even exist.  If man is the sole arbiter of what is right and there is no absolute standard, there is no evil.

But if that is correct, then there shouldn't be any way for someone who is agnostic or atheist (or believes in anything other than the Judeo-Christian God) to have a good moral code.  Yet, you clearly acknowledged that such people can have a good moral code.  So your explanation doesn't address the question.

Quote
An example of that may be the leftist concept that began in the '60's........ "If it feels good, do it."   When you get to the core of that concept, anything you want to do is OK if you want to do it.  There is no right or wrong.  So, if I feel like cheating on my spouse, punching someone in the face, or killing my unborn child because he or she is an inconvenience, there is no standard to say that it is right or wrong, or evil.    It's just a made up concept.

Does that make any sense?

Yes and no.

Yes, in that it is an explanation for why someone who doesn't believe in God may live a hedonistic, amoral/immoral existence.

No, in that it doesn't explain how an agnostic/atheist can have a good moral code, which you've already acknowledged can happen.

And just to be clear on this, I am a Christian, and consider myself to have a good moral code even though I sometimes fail to live up to it as well as I would wish.  But my brother, who is a good, moral person with a well-developed moral code, has been an atheist since his teens.  That's why I asked this question in the first place, because it does not match up with my own observations in life.

I would say that an honest belief in God makes it more likely that someone will have a good moral code, and generally live by it.  But it is certainly possible for those who don't believe in God to do the same.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 03:13:22 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Mod5

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Next insult or passive-aggressive questions about insults earns a time out.

Offline INVAR

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@INVAR @musiclady

I'm honestly curious about something:

Are you folks saying that it is impossible for someone to have a good moral code unless they have faith in (the Judeo-Christian) God?

Define what is a "good" moral code.

Chances are that without any regard to biblical morality - the moral code will be arbitrary and always changing to whatever whim currently dominates.

I lived in a society devoid of any influence from biblical morality - and their 'morals' fluctuated and changed based on whomever was in charge and whatever mood he was in.  Up to and including beating and killing Christians as a "moral imperative".
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline JRags

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I used to believe that only on leftist websites the concepts of good and evil would be so distorted and that good would be attacked as evil and evil supported as good.

For me, this is the crux of the problem.  There no longer is a 'side' where the truth is still defended by the majority and where we are not under attack for what used to be the basis of conservative thought and belief.

Conservatives are still conservative and IMHO still believe in the same values. It appears to me that it's the liberals who have veered too far off from the norm. That's how a man like Trump could win a Presidential election.

Offline roamer_1

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I'm honestly curious about something:

Are you folks saying that it is impossible for someone to have a good moral code unless they have faith in (the Judeo-Christian) God?

@Maj. Bill Martin
No... The Bible itself describes good folk who have never heard the Gospel. But, for the purposes of a political forum, The emphasis should be put upon the Judeo-Christian Ethic... The American sense of right and wrong.

You will find that as that sense erodes, so too will the general tenor of health in this nation. There cannot be multiple systems of right and wrong (moral relativism), and yet remain as a people. There literally can be no mechanical means (read LE and Jurisprudence) to enforce 'right and wrong' if no one agrees upon what that is.

...As we already can see. EVERY problem infesting this nation is a matter of morality, or moral collision.

And finally, be careful what you wish for - We live in a country where our sense of right and wrong, like our sense of rights, comes from on high, above the courts of men.

When that is no longer the case, who then will determine your rights, and your sense of right and wrong? And just within the course of my lifetime, our experiment in exactly that, has wrought every bit of the illness our nation suffers from.

Whether you like it or not, we are rooted in the Judeo-Christian ethic, and cutting us off there-from is nothing other than death to this nation.